I just watched the HBO documentary on the Latin Kings a few nights ago, which I thought was pretty interesting. I noticed the Latin Kings had some issues that they were trying to resolve with some Bloods during the program...but what I wanted to ask about now was the existence of Blood and Crip sets in N.Y. How is it that they got there and got established?

I have been to Los Angeles, and spent time in Watts, South Central, Compton, Long Beach. etc. When I was in San Diego I saw brothers who were into the whole "gangbanging culture". I've travelled throughout the U.S. and seen brothers who were caught up in the whole Blood/Crip, red/blue, set claiming, sign flashing mentality. I've seen it in Arizona, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Arkansas(remember "Banging in Little Rock"?), Georgia, Mississippi, Missouri, Tennessee, Florida, Minnesota, etc. One place I didn't really see a presence of Bloods and Crips was in Chicago. I am not saying that they are not there, I just didnt see them. I did see a lot of gang activity, but they were Gangster Disciples, Vice Lords, War Lords; gangs that, for lack of a better term, are "indigenous" to Chicago, and have been for "established" decades now. When I asked my partner who was born and raised on the South Side of Chicago how come so-called Crip/Blood factions weren't having that much success in Chi-town, his answer made alot of sense to me. He said "Man, the gangs in Chicago have been around for 30-35 years, niggas claiming to be from L.A. ain't just coming and uprooting all of that..." That sounded logical to me. With that being said, again I ask, how is this happening in New York? Besides the Latin Kings documentary, I have seen programs on television and read articles in various newspapers and magazines that talked about how L.A. "based" gangs are growing in N.Y. I have friends from all over New York: South Bronx, Queens, Harlem, Bed-Stuy, Roosevelt out on Long Island, and Staten Island. 10-12 years ago, all of my N.Y. partners would laugh at "left coast gangsters", and would say that if they ever came to "The Apple", they would either be "ignored, laughed off the block, run out of town, or wind up dead". Looks like they were WRONG.

I know that cats can be weak-minded, and fall for anything. Here in Dallas when the movie "Colors" came out, within a week you couldn't go to the mall, movies or to the park without seeing niggas in blue or red plaid flannel shirts, heads wrapped up Aunt Jemima style with red or blue bandanas, baggy Dickies work pants or khakis, and red or blue Chuck Taylors. I know niggas right now in Dallas WHO HAVE NEVER BEEN OUT OF THE STATE OF TEXAS, and are claiming "Rolling 60's Crips", "Eight-Tray Gangster Crips", "Compton Piru Bloods", or "Inglewood Family Bloods". I'm always like, "NIGGA! You ain't never been outta Texas!! How are you claiming a street in L.A. that 1. you don't own, and 2. you've never even seen!" I'm not saying that cats from New York can't fall into this same weak-mindedness. Neither am I saying that the New York "thug nigga" is a better alternative than the Los Angeles "gangbanger". What I am wanting to know is why does it seem like Chicago niggas can hold their neighborhoods down, and New York niggas are joining the Bloods and Crips? It doesn't make sense to me. Somebody let me know.

PEACE

New York is known to be a place to absorb things from different places.

Like New York used to be "pretty" hip-hop, with the parted eyebrows and MCM trenchcoats, then New Jersy came with the rugged style. A few years later, New York-style equated rough, rugged, and raw.

For me, I think the fact that New York even adopted Bloods & Crips, it's garbage. New York used to laugh at that gangbanging ish. Sure, you'll have people saying "Well, NY had gangs in the 60's and 70's", sure, but they weren't Bloods & Crips, and they weren't that big, and organized.

where alot of different cultures come together, but N.Y. I thought was always a place that as a whole SET trends, not followed them. For instance anywhere I am in the country, in Dallas, Houston, down in the deep south, the midwest, Chicago or California, It is inevitable that I will see the "player pimp nigga" with a loud colored zoot suit and long, permed hair.(Like the "So Fresh, So Clean" video) I ain't never seen that mess in New York. Of all things to adopt, why that gangbanger stuff?

there u go, thinking that new york is a place that sets trends, that's a false assumption, because of new york-centric media we got the whole WORLD thinking new york is the originator of every style but it's not true they just make shit that's been going on for years more corporate, more acceptable, more politicized, more commercial and thus more popular

New York DOES set trends. I'm not saying that the media is not N.Y. "centric". But to say that there isn't a trendsetting "vibe" in New York is to be blind to the truth. First of all, N.Y. is the fashion capitol of the United States. My mother goes there every October to shop because she knows she'll find stuff there that she won't find anywhere else. You know what else has its birthplace in N.Y.? This culture that we all love so much known as Hip-Hop; emceeing, deejaying, breakdancing, dope grafitti art...this stuff did not start in Pittsburg, Kansas City, Shreveport, or Phoenix. They started in the Big Apple.

I live in a neighborhood that was just local crews up until 3-4 years ago... now kids are flagging like it's a fashion statement. Largely, it is. These aren't the multi-generational Black mafia-style gangs of LA or Chicago: these are sueprficial trappings of 'gang lifestyle' that will pass. We're in a phase of New York where crime is down, and most of the heavy older cats from the block are serving DECADES. Kids are looking for some sort of crime culture to latch onto, and this is what they've found. Our Bloods started as a prison gang, and the Crips are really just crack dealers who like blue.

These are MTV gangsters. Not to say they're not dangerous, just saying they have no concept of anything beyond the dress code and some gang signs.

As for Chicago? Sheeeeeeit... that's some who other 'nother shit.

the fact that there were a bunch of fairly tight-knit local crews. Kinda like in the movie "Juice". I know the crack game played a big factor in the spread of Crip and Blood "sets" spreading around the country, but I always figured that N.Y. had their own crews hustling strong enough to prevent any outsiders from doing business on their blocks. But if I am reading you correctly, there is really no connection between these N.Y. "Bloods" and "Crips" and the ones back in L.A. These kids are just latching on to bandanas and running wild. Dang, thats ALMOST AS BAD as letting niggas come and take over your block. Yeah I remember the days when the biggest knucklehead New York niggas looked down on gangbanging as the stupidest ish you could do...now it looks like they are jumping into it with both feet.

It's a complete 180. Sad, but true. Your observations are correct: even back when the Decepticons were big time, it was still inter-crew beef, on a block for block basis. Which is pretty much what this bullshit is. It just makes me sad... these kids are acting like suckers, and they don't even realize it. Some of them got clowned at the West Indian parade, and shot this kid for it. Fuckin' chumps, man... whatver, five ten years will pass, and they'll be a bad memory...

I never heard of them. Who were they? Where and when were they around?

at least that's when I remember hearing about them. They weren't that big or organized I don't think (at least compared to LA or Chicago gangs), just a local NY thing with a bunch of rowdy young Brooklyn cats wildin out. Ruck and Rock from Heltah Skeltah were Decepticons.

------------------------------------------------------------
It's only natural, actual facts are thrown at you
The impact'll blow trees back and crack statues
Million dollar rap crews fold, check the sick shit
Explicit, I crystalize the rhyme so you can sniff it

- Inspectah Deck, "It's Yourz"

a bunch of hard-head cats from Brooklyn named a gang after some Transformer cartoons? I wouldn't have joined that gang on the corniness of the name alone.

*especially* the Decepticons - Megatron was fucking gangsta with his shit!

And anyway, it's a better name than Crips... you saw that South Park episode where the crippled kid Jimmy thought they were a group for crippled people? That shit was hilarious.

------------------------------------------------------------
It's only natural, actual facts are thrown at you
The impact'll blow trees back and crack statues
Million dollar rap crews fold, check the sick shit
Explicit, I crystalize the rhyme so you can sniff it

- Inspectah Deck, "It's Yourz"

But don't think I'm defending the name "Crips". I hate everything about gang "culture" period. But speaking of corny gang names, about 11 or 12 years ago I went to visit a friend of mine who lives in Texarkana,(little town on the border of Texas and Arkansas)and there was a "gang" running around calling themselves, get this, "X-Clan"!!! How are you gonna name a GANG after a crew that was promoting Black pride, unity, and awareness!! Niggas is ignorant!

... tell a crew of Triggercons on Fulton Street back in the 80s their shit was 'corny'.... those cats were barbarians: smashing people in the head with hammers and screwdrivers for petty shit like a walkman or soemthing...

And we had them int eh Bronx and Manhattan, too...

...over a walkman? Disgusting, absolutely disgusting.

Were their colors red, black & green too? Man, that is some dumb shit.

And yeah, Decepticons is kinda a corny name for a street gang - I'm just a fanatical Transformers fan, what can I say.

Street gangs have always had stupid names, though. You see Gangs of New York? Although fictionalized, it was based on actual events & used the actual gang names from back then, such as the Dead Rabbits & the Plug Uglies. I guess dumb names just go with the territory.

------------------------------------------------------------
It's only natural, actual facts are thrown at you
The impact'll blow trees back and crack statues
Million dollar rap crews fold, check the sick shit
Explicit, I crystalize the rhyme so you can sniff it

- Inspectah Deck, "It's Yourz"

"I'm reppin' the illest crew OUT the Bronx! We're called the Red Hot Ballerinas, kiiiiiiiiiiiid... yo, you LAUGHIN' at me and my people, kid?"

>followed by assorted gunshots<

yeah, but the Five Points was a real intersection in Lowe Manhattan that these gangs did meet to do battle.



>Were their colors red, black & green too? Man, that is some
>dumb shit.
>
>And yeah, Decepticons is kinda a corny name for a street
>gang - I'm just a fanatical Transformers fan, what can I
>say.
>
>Street gangs have always had stupid names, though. You see
>Gangs of New York? Although fictionalized, it was based on
>actual events & used the actual gang names from back then,
>such as the Dead Rabbits & the Plug Uglies. I guess dumb
>names just go with the territory.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>It's only natural, actual facts are thrown at you
>The impact'll blow trees back and crack statues
>Million dollar rap crews fold, check the sick shit
>Explicit, I crystalize the rhyme so you can sniff it
>
>- Inspectah Deck, "It's Yourz"

------------------------------------------------------------
It's only natural, actual facts are thrown at you
The impact'll blow trees back and crack statues
Million dollar rap crews fold, check the sick shit
Explicit, I crystalize the rhyme so you can sniff it

- Inspectah Deck, "It's Yourz"

you right

decepts, wolf pack, lo-lives, lp, 90's mafia, all that is the brooklyn i grew up in...it was silly like hell..in truth cali cats were wmore about killing each other and picknicks..we mainly joined crews because we are like monkeys looking for a group (i can admit that now)...the bloods and cripts stuff is alien to the nyc landscape...but i am not surprised...cause though new york and new yorkers do set trends..never once meant they didnt copy (what were they sampling?0 and twist it around (moonwalking is not from sheepshead bay/crown heights/or flatbush for that matter)....truth be told innovation is over...and i am sure this bloods and crypts stuff in nyc is just some morph of what those dudes stood for (like i know what they stood for..lol)...some cats were pink too..claim sets..blah blah blah...but at least they dont do drive bys..and for the most part appear (in my ignorant opnion) less threatning that bigger lp or skeletor or tip-top and other bklyn (and nyc at large) heads who scared the crap out of each other with razor blades and their uncles 32....

btw..i think my neice is a crypt...yes i said my niece...her answer to me confronting her about it on my mothers behalf was "you smoked weed and hung out when you were younger...i dont do none of that...and ma just dont like my friends.." (pretty much something to that effect)...funny, i told my bigger brother almost the same thing....evolution is a funny thing..hence bloods and crypts in ny..

>






You observations are correct indeed. But, there NYC has a "loooonnng" gang history that date back to the 1850's. Many where enclaves of immigrants who came from Europe looking for a better way of life (as seen in "Gangs of New York). This preceeded some of the infamous "criminal organizations" in the world from the Italian Mafia, to Jewish and Irish families. All this spilled over into other ethnic groups such: Puerto Rican, Blacks, Dominicans, Haitians and what have you.








the fact that there were a bunch of fairly tight-knit local
>crews. Kinda like in the movie "Juice". I know the crack
>game played a big factor in the spread of Crip and Blood
>"sets" spreading around the country, but I always figured
>that N.Y. had their own crews hustling strong enough to
>prevent any outsiders from doing business on their blocks.
>But if I am reading you correctly, there is really no
>connection between these N.Y. "Bloods" and "Crips" and the
>ones back in L.A. These kids are just latching on to
>bandanas and running wild. Dang, thats ALMOST AS BAD as
>letting niggas come and take over your block. Yeah I
>remember the days when the biggest knucklehead New York
>niggas looked down on gangbanging as the stupidest ish you
>could do...now it looks like they are jumping into it with
>both feet.

ADR 4 LIFE!!! LOL

As DJ Quik once said, Oakland is Just Like Compton! Denver is Just Like Compton! St. Louis, they wanna be like Compton!

I live in south jersey and we have them here as well.These kids whewre I live make me laugh because most of them don't know about hard living nor have they ever shot anybody.It is just a fad.

We have "Bloods" and "Crips" here in Ottawa also. They get little to no respect. People just look at them as a bunch of wannabes who think they're gangsters. The people that get the respect are the ones who do the shit that the Bloods and Crips claim to but leave the colours behind and don't talk all the bullshit.

Twisted logic:
"Zionist Israel's occupation of Arab Palestine has forced the Arab world to waste billions of precious dollars on armaments making it impossible for these newly independent Arab nations to concentrate on strengthening the economies of their countries and elevate the living standard of their people."
-Malcolm X

Why does anyone give them respect for DOING what the "Bloods" and "Crips" in Ottawa (OTTAWA for God's sake!! L.A. gangs north of the border!)talk about doing! We as Black people have GOT to start showing disdain for criminal activity. Why is it that we think that being pushers, hustlers, gangsters and pimps is cool? The older I get the more that stuff make me sick...

Supposedly the Bloods in NY started in Riker's Island and it spread from there. I still don't know what scale they're operating at in NY, but I know they're there. I remember hearing a couple of years ago that there were Bloods in NY running around slashing people in the face with boxcutters for wearing red, and I was like WTF?!?!

I'm the same as your boys, I NEVER thought they'd be in NY... but there they are. They're even in fucking Long Island, this kid in Roosevelt got killed last year apparently by the Bloods. That shit is crazy.

------------------------------------------------------------
It's only natural, actual facts are thrown at you
The impact'll blow trees back and crack statues
Million dollar rap crews fold, check the sick shit
Explicit, I crystalize the rhyme so you can sniff it

- Inspectah Deck, "It's Yourz"

Street gangs got history. GD's and VL's been holding it down, and in alot of cases, helping their neighborhoods for decades. But don't get it twisted, stupid ass kids still front and try to get mixed up in a gang culture they dont even understand. Instead of learning the history behind it, they glorify the fashion and the gun tottin' part of it.

Bloods and Crips are affliated with gangs in the Chi (vice lords and GDs respectively) but because Gang banging in Chicago is very much a multi million dollar drug indtry, aint nobody trying to give that up.

NYC gang shit perplexes me and got alot folks back home (west side chicago) thinkin... "whats wrong with them niggas?" cause as far as i know, NYC peoples was supposed to be past that shit.

when they tried to recruit Michael Evans - that shit wasn't right!

------------------------------------------------------------
It's only natural, actual facts are thrown at you
The impact'll blow trees back and crack statues
Million dollar rap crews fold, check the sick shit
Explicit, I crystalize the rhyme so you can sniff it

- Inspectah Deck, "It's Yourz"

The Gangster Disciples operate a sophisticated retail drug network worth $100 million a year that stretches into 35 states according to a special report on the Gangster Disciples (GD) in the Christian Science Monitor (Ann Scott Tyson, "How Nation's Largest Gang Runs its Drug Enterprise," Christian Science Monitor, July 15, 1996, p. 1).

"The Gangster Disciples are one of if not the largest and most successful gang in the history of the United States," claims James Morgan, special agent in charge of the DEA in Chicago (emphasis in the original). The 30,000-strong gang is "incredibly well-disciplined and trained," he said. US Attorney James Burns told President Clinton during a May briefing that the GD have "a very sophisticated battle plan and a very sophisticated organization."

According to this report, the organization and battle plan were created by GD chief, Larry "King" Hoover. Modeled after Chicago's Italian Mafia, the top-down organization has always emphasized discipline, respect and hierarchy. At the top is the "chairman" (Hoover) and two "boards of directors," one controls street operations and the other controls 5,000 to 10,000 imprisoned gang members. Under the directors are about 15 "governors" who oversee up to 1,500 members each in specific territories. These territories are subdivided between "regents" and "coordinators" who distribute drugs, oversee operations, manage security forces and collect profits and dues called "street taxes."

At the bottom of the organization are "enforcers" and "shorties." Enforcers mete out fines and "violations"- punishments ranging from beatings to death for members who break gang rules. Shorties execute drug deals and guard gang territory. The gang lures young recruits from poor and jobless communities with the promise of easy cash ($50 to $200 a day) and bigger reponsibilities like working "security" shifts with powerful handguns.

Hoover has drafted rules for the members. They include prohibition from using addictive drugs, stealing from or showing disrespect to other members, engaging in homosexual rape and being a "bad sport." Exercise and cleanliness are also required. "It was very strict. You had to have total respect," says Tommy, a veteran GD member.

As crack cocaine gained popularity in Chicago in the late 1980's, the GD organized the lucrative drug trade, augmenting its earlier goals of guarding and expanding gang turf against rival gangs. The gang now buys cocaine in 100- to 200-kilogram shipments of drugs from Colombian cartels.

Sales in the Englewood neighborhood of Chicago have reached $1 million a week. The business is so lucrative that when one "crew" is arrested, replacements appear within hours or even minutes. "You've got folks literally waiting in the wings to sell drugs," says police Commander Ronald Evans about Englewood.

Here you've got this guy Larry "King" Hoover in charge of a 35 state, 30,000 member organization that is grossing 100,000,000 per year! This cat evidently has the ability and charisma to lead others, knows how to delegate authority, knows how to instill discipline in others,(truly making them DISCIPLES) knows how to develop loyalty, has obvious organiztional skills, knows how to manage huge amounts of cash, knows how to handle the recruiting of new, eager "employees", possesses outstanding marketing and sales acumen, and has a program set up for crisis management.(getting another crew on the street when one crew is arrested) This brother has multi-tasking down to the point where it is as natural as breathing. How much would a corporation pay for a CEO that could do all of these things so well? Better yet, what if Mr. Hoover began a legal entrepreneurial venture, and threw the same amount of business knowledge, foresight and hard work into legal business as he has done into his illegal venture?
What if he used his abilities and resources to build up our communities instead of tear them down? What if he fought as passionately to keep drugs OUT of neighborhoods, as he does to flood neighborhoods with that poison? What if there were 10 of these "new and improved" Larry "King" Hoovers? I know what I am saying is utopian, but it is a beautiful dream.
PEACE.

The ghetto creates situations where people, namely black folk, have always done what we had to do to survive. Im confident that if given the chance, Chairman Hoover could have done what Puffy did. Conversely, if Puff was born in missisippi brought to the cold streets of chicago BACK THEN, he would've probably walked down the same path.

The ghetto aint nothing nice. I dont really know about other parts of the states, but in Chicago there aint SHIT in the projects. No YMCA, no sports clubs, no boy scouts. Brotherhood is found within the gang. Hell, i remember stayin with my grandparents back in the day and gettin free haircuts at the shop courtesy of the GD's. 10 dollars an A on report card day and stuff like that. In many respects, they did what the government sould have been doing in the first place.

Hell, im just talking about FOLKS....

To put it in perspective, the whole gang thing and Chicago-

Gangs have become a major economic force in the city, said Steven Levitt, a University of Chicago economist. He estimated their annual profit from drugs at about $500 million, about two-thirds of 1 percent of Chicago's gross domestic product, a measure of goods and services moving through the economy.

Tom Donahue, a federal drug enforcement coordinator there, called that figure "conservative" and said the total is closer to $1 billion.

an excuse to engage in behavior that is destructive to the fabric of our community. Them paying for you to get some haircuts and giving you a reward for making some good grades does not balance out all the negativity street gangs have done in Black neighborhoods.

This is why i never joined. Drugs and the violence associated with it has ruined the ghetto. Gangs run the drugs, and for all the good shit that they do, they are still the root of the problem. Now, how do you take an organization such as the GD's and make it a positive force? From what i can see its impossible because of all the money and the greed that comes along with that money. In a perfect world, yes. In this world, HELL NO.

the bloods and crips made several efforts towards peace. each organization was immediatley set up by the police to perpetuate hating. a criminal factor is vital in the survival of a ghetto, or poverty. some of the comments released by gangsters during these times:

"we had more trouble from the cops when we tried to stop fighting and work in our communities than when we were killing eachother and robbing"

peace.

...right after Tupac's death, they walked around with a limp, throwing wesside signs, imitating African-Americans with Tupac music blaring out their speakers.

In SA's coloured townships and ghettoes we've always had violent, stars-and-stripes wearing "Americans" for decades now. They were also hugely revived by Tupac's death.

Moorish Scientists/Black Panther party vs. Freemasons

>.

Yes, true indeed god, I've heard the breakdown on this from older Chicago gangbangers. I mean brothers in their 50 and 60's who remember the early days.

were started by a brother from Chicago who had been in the Blackstone Rangers I believe. I didn't know that about the Crips though. How did Moorish scientists and freemasons degenerate into downright drug-selling gang-bangers?

the Blackstones/VL/Bloods from the MSTA and BPP
5 point star Love Truth Peace Freedom Justice
with red background (sun)

The GD Folks/Crips from Freemasons,
Square and Compass
Blue and White lodge
6 point Star of David

I have read that before somewhere...but again, how did that degenerate into neighborhood destroying, own people victimizing, gangster glorifying, shooting, killing Black on Black crime?

shit goes alot deeper then the average person would think Imma leave it there

I was talking to this older Chicago brother I knew a few years back. He explained that whole gang culture in Chicago going back to Al Capone, and how Black gangs were entrenched, "politically" within the system. He went on to mention, the infamous Blackstone Rangers, the El Rukins and what have you. Supposedly, the El Rukins did arms deals with Omar Khadiffi(I don't know how true that shit is though).

we in Chicago have always had our own culture be it house music or whatever.Same thing as in our organizations that you al call gangs we have our own affiliations and our own way of doing things. we arent impressed by fake ass wanabes' from Cali. My F.O.L.K Nation goes far deeper than A Cali our history is deeper. We have done things for our community through grants, neighborhood centers etc etc and we aint going no where!!!!

I love the Chi vibe just like I love the N.Y. vibe. Good food (Gladys', Home Run Inn, Giordano's, Soul Queen, Alexander's Steakhouse and Lounge) yall's own style of music,(house) yall's own style of dance(stepping). Chicago is a unique place. I also realize that the "affiliations" that you have that we call "gangs" may customs, habits, etc. that make you unique. I know that I have heard many times that these "affiliations" have done some good things in some neighborhoods. I mean no disrespect to you, the B.G.D.s, or the F.O.L.K.S. nation. But isn't it true that the F.O.L.K.S. and the "affiliations under their umbrella have done some damaging things in those same neighborhoods? Drug-dealing and other things that exist with the "gangsta" lifestyle? If I'm wrong let me know, PEACE.

what is that 79th and Stony Island?

Queen of the Sea out there in North Cackalacka? I think your location is correct, I haven't been to Chi in a few years.

south bend, west lafayette, IN, etc. That means regular
trips to Chi, and irregular trips to g.i.......

Gary, Indiana. I hear thats a rough place too. A cat I work with is from Gary.

.

Im not gonna sit here and say the FOLKS aint responsible for alot of the fucked-upness in the ghetto. They are. However, to leave it their only tells half the story. FOLKS have done alot for the hood, which is why they're tolerated in many ways.

And the history is amazing.I dont know everything cause i aint never join but from what i know its along the lines of the Masons..
Deep.

FOLKS tried to turn shit around and what happened when they did? The Feds shut em down. Chairman Hoover got like 150-200 years in the joint. They didn't really do shit before that, so I ask you, who's the bad guy? Seems to me when they was doing their part being the bad street gang cum drug cartel, shit was ok. Step away and they got a problem.Somthing dont add up....