YOU, ME, The OKP's and the REST OF THE HUMAN RACE
are in the throws of a discussion on why we're here, how we got here, and who's responsible for all of it.

You seem to be contending (with your post) that there is NO creator.. that it all just BECAME somehow.

Yet you are ignoring the most obvious CLUE we have been given as to God's existence.

MORALITY.

Everyone always wants a "sign from God". etc.
I've been accused in this thread of "believing in something I can't see"... and I've been told how ridiculous and illogical that is. And that Atheism/Evolution is the LOGICAL standpoint.

Yet I would contend that if there is a creative force behind all of THIS, it could NOT reveal itself as part of THIS (i.e. what we would call a tangible, concrete, fact/clue).

But rather, it could only reveal itself to us in some other way.

-------------------------> MORALITY


Now... If you still believe that a discussion of the origins of human MORALITY is irrelevant to a discussion ot the origins of the universe... I'd urge you to think about it just a little bit more till you make the connection.

I'm not the enemy man.
I've found something I believe to be amazingly truthful, and I want to share it with you, cause you're my brother.

Please read the LEWIS posts. However, 4 is as far as I'm getting tonight. My wrists hurt.

peace.