It doesn't matter how many ballots the people of a country cast, it is not a democracy when there is different laws that apply to different ethnic and religious groups.

Democracy is a very very hard word to define. What sort of a definition are you using for democracy here...

Israeli-Arabs, for example, are NOT allowed to live in certain parts of Israel!

When was the last time you saw a non muslim in Mecca?

A country that occupies territories and violates the sovereignty of another nation by building settlements and stealing resources CANNOT by any definition call itself a democracy.

You live in the US I live in the UK. These countries are meant to be exemplars of democracy and yet the rules you are talking about, they violate them. And they are not surrounded by people who dont want them there....


Yes, a people like Sharon, who you aknowledge as a racist, have been the driving force of Zionism for over 100 years now.

Not quite true. And for someone who is so fond of looking at the root causes of the problem, go and have a look at who started the wars in 1948 and 1966 (amongst others) that meant that Israel had such a powerful military....
on...

Of course I judge them based on different criteria -THEY ARE NOT OCCUPYING SOMEONE ELSE'S LAND! Also, they don't even pretend to be democratic! Israel does!

Syria is pretending to be democratic. Im sure other Arab countries are... What does someone else's land mean? Do I have a right to go to Liepzig in Germany, to kick the people out of my family house there?


Wow, this is as desperate as an argument can get. Look, Palestinians and Palestine supporters who demand a secular one state solution are not asking for a state that is "Palestinian in character".

What people like Hamas and ISLAMIC Jihad?

> I am talking about a bi-national state in which Jews and >Palestinians are free to go about the nation as they please!

On this I agree with you. Much work has to be done on both sides for this to happen.

Further, I demand that all Palestinian refugees have a right to return to their historical Palestinian homeland.

What does this mean? Surely Israel is also the Jew's historic homeland. The Palestinians were nomadic for much of their history.

Furthermore, the settlers in the occupied territories are settled illegal by international law, they deserve to be displaced.

So a campaign of terror to move them from there will show the illegality? I do agree that the settlers cause enormous problems for the peace process. Guess where the majority of those ultra orthodox settlers come from?? The U.S of A.

Palestinians, in Palestine, are not occupying anybody's land. If the Jews want historical Israel of over 2000 years ago, then they sure went about the wrong way of taking it.

Well, they started off by buying land. Admittedly, they were buying land off the British, but I dont see Palestinian suicide bombers blowing themselves up here, because of the land that the Brits sold (this was before the Balfour declaration by the way). Then the Brits granted them independance (rightly or wrongly) and the fledgling Israel beat off every country surrounding them. It isnt surprising that the Israeli's felt some antipathy towards the Arabs who were within their own country (which they had fought long and hard for. Lets not forget that before Israel had US funding, they did it themselves with homemade guns, and still won) although this doesnt make it right.

But in general, I agree, they went the wrong way about taking it. Just like the Palestinians are going the wrong way about taking it.
I don't know what trilogy you are talking about. I'm talking about Norman Finkelstein, the writer of "The Holocaust Industry" and "Image and Reality of the Israel/Palestine Conflict"(oh, he destroys Benny Morris in this book).

You mean YOU DIDNT READ THE OTHER TWO BOOKS!!!!!! Well then, you arent in a position to argue... ;-)