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3767, Wow, logical argument is beyond you I guess|
Posted by Pinko_Panther, Mon Oct-13-03 03:38 AM
>And if there was no Diaspora the Jews wouldnt have left in
>the first place. Ghandi is a prime example of someone
>changing the injustices in his country without violence.
>Palestinians and Arabs in the area only bothered to
>negotiate after they had declared war and been beaten
>several times. Seems to me that extremist reactions to
>nationalist nation building begat extreme reactions from the
>soldiers of sovereign nations.....
>Ill say it again man. Killing people is wrong. If you are
>killing people you are wrong, and if you support the killing
>of people you are probably wrong. There is rarely a
>situation that needs violence as a solution. Imagine if the
>Palestinians all had a sit in along the old border? The
>Israelis couldnt do shit. As long as extremists keep blowing
>themselves up, and people like you keep justifying it,
>people wont have much sympathy for the Palestinians, because
>they will be seen (rightly or wrongly) as extremist guerilla
>terrorists who go out of their way to kill innocent people,
>regardless of the fact that the majority of Palestinians
>arent actually like this and do not agree with it, just like
>most Israelis arent baby murdering scum who go out of their
>way to make Palestinian lives miserable.
Okay, when you say people like me keep justifying extremism, you obviously did not digest a word of what I said and have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. And I never made a sweeping indictment of the whole Israeli population like you seem to suggest that I do.
I am just trying to explain to you that moral arguments look beautiful, sexy, warm and fuzzy but they do absolutely nothing to change a situation that can only be resolved by examining the fundemental roots of this violence. We will not solve the problems of the middle east by whining "killing is wrong! boo hoo". The only way to change people's consciousness is by completely changing their material conditions. The problem is material NOT mental. Atleast try and understand this.
About our good passivist friend Ghandi. Well, what do I have to say about our little bald brown fellow from India? Well firstly, Ghandi really had little to nothing to do with the liberation of India. If you dig a little deeper into the issue, several factors played in India's independence. First of all, India achieved this so-called independence in 1947, two years after the official end of World War 2. Britain's armed forces lost over a million troops. The occupation of India by Britain was dominantly a military one. Well, since the British lost so many troops in WWII and could no longer afford to occupy other nation's militarily, the British had no choice but to grant India independence. Furthermore, Ghandi's movement was not as popular as the movement of people who chose physical confrontation. British militarymen, officials and business were driven out of the country by angry Indian's who wanted their country back. If you think India's independence came peacefully, then I suggest you further your historical education.
You also said "And if there was no Diaspora the Jews wouldnt have left in the first place." Honestly, I don't see how this relates to the Palestinians whatsoever. Arabs lived in Palestine long before Jews ever existed and as I recall it was the Romans who created the diaspora, not the Arabs.
Lastly you talk about how Palestinians could solve this matter peacefully. Obviously you have a lot to learn because these very methods have been tried and their efforts have been completely ignored. People have sat at checkpoints in protest, but I guess they got hungry waiting for international cameras. Perhaps you have never lived on less than two dollars a day and do not realize what it must be like to try to feed your family on such little money. Yet you seem like you know exactly what Palestinians should do. What a smart man you must be! I bet you think the intifada is a violent movement. Do some research on it, the intifada has a great deal of peaceful means to protesting the occupation. For example, during the intifada, when Israeli Defense Forces shut down Palestinian schools, parents would take their children to those schools and open them back up. When Israeli Defense Forces imposes a 5pm curfew on ALL Palestinians, then Palestinians would practice their right to visit their friends at 7pm and do their groceries at 8pm in defiance of these humiliatingly disgusting curfews. I've never heard of checkpoints and curfews for Israelis however.