This doesnt concern most of you who live state side, but this was brought to my attention and it proves that Naziism (or elements of it) are alive and well here in the UK.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/3222321.stm

But the majority of posters here, won't get this.

that many Europeans, Brits included, don't like Gypsies? That's not exactly a well-kept secret over here.

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"This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man." - The Dude

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"This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man." - The Dude

unless you been over there and seen 'em first hand I don't really know if its possible to understand this one at all. its just not something you can get an accurate sense of through anything but first hand perceptions. in my opinion anyway

"They say big men don't cry. but they didn't say it last week — not if they watched Kobe Bryant speak publicly with a moist remorse that was almost Clintonian. "

"Eminem wants to go at Jay Z because everyone recognise Jay Z as the best in the game whether you faggots like him or not." The Source

"John Stockton, not just a great player, but one of the greatest stories of western civilization"--Bill Walton

on the lawn of a black person in the south, with burning effigies of black people with a sign saying 'nigger', then you and she (not a he) wouldn't "get it?" Come on, now...

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"This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man." - The Dude

would you insist on talking about oranges? its a whole different ball game. when you hit europe up you'll know what I mean. there is just nothing in the life of an american that could even come close to helping them understand gypsies unless you've actually seen them, been around them, been places where they are. its just a whole different ballgame homey. that's all the original guy's post is about, and that's why I agree with him. its like someone in norway reading about the relations between blacks and whites the U.S. all well and good, and I'm sure he's got a nice background in it after reading, but until he rolls over here and sees it for himself he won't have the slightest idea about what is actually going on. some things are just like that in life. gypsies are one of them

"They say big men don't cry. but they didn't say it last week — not if they watched Kobe Bryant speak publicly with a moist remorse that was almost Clintonian. "

"Eminem wants to go at Jay Z because everyone recognise Jay Z as the best in the game whether you faggots like him or not." The Source

"John Stockton, not just a great player, but one of the greatest stories of western civilization"--Bill Walton

Whatever man. I didn't say all that, all I said is I get it - I mean, this wasn't exactly the most subtle display of prejudice that requires some kind of nuanced understanding of the situation to grasp. Same as a Norwegian such as Federisco would "get it" if I posted an article about a cross burning in the south, even if he can't grasp all the nuances of race relations in America between blacks and whites on the same level that I can. That's all I'm saying - no need to go over-complicating things.

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"This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man." - The Dude

I'm just siding with whoever said people here wouldn't get it. and I still stand by that. people here probably just think gypsies are like our homeless or some shit like that. whole different world over there. that's all. so if you get it then fine, but most don't. and you won't really until you go. that's all. I'm not saying I've got a deep understanding by any means, although I have studied the topic at certain length while in spain, but deep understandings aside. even a basic one for most americas would require some form of actual real life gypsie perception, cuz without one its hard to even know how is being talked about.

"They say big men don't cry. but they didn't say it last week — not if they watched Kobe Bryant speak publicly with a moist remorse that was almost Clintonian. "

"Eminem wants to go at Jay Z because everyone recognise Jay Z as the best in the game whether you faggots like him or not." The Source

"John Stockton, not just a great player, but one of the greatest stories of western civilization"--Bill Walton

well, I see what you're getting at - it is vastly different than the general dislike of random transients in the US, but I don't know if most people over here think it's the same thing. Maybe so, but I doubt it - I think people here generally (and I emphasise 'generally') know that gypsies are particularly despised and shat on throughout Europe, even if they don't really understand why or how bad it really is. That's all I was saying, but I understand the point you were making too.

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"This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man." - The Dude

That is the solution, right Bob!?

when did I say that? I could care less about this entire thread other than supporting the point that people in america won't even get the post. nothing more, nothing less. but of course some bitchass like yourself has to come on and put words in people's mouths and shit cuz you're not smart enough to offer anything of any worth to anyone. perhaps you should go to the suicide post and follow some of the instructions, cuz killing yourself would actually be beneficial to all of society at this point. so no, my solution is not to kill all gypsies, just to kill you.

"They say big men don't cry. but they didn't say it last week — not if they watched Kobe Bryant speak publicly with a moist remorse that was almost Clintonian. "

"Eminem wants to go at Jay Z because everyone recognise Jay Z as the best in the game whether you faggots like him or not." The Source

"John Stockton, not just a great player, but one of the greatest stories of western civilization"--Bill Walton

?

if so, realted to roma gypsies of europe? or just other travellers?

are the gypsies in englad (i am still surprised they have any) realted to the gypsies of europe? romas?

maybe some other travelling peoples as well, but those 2 for sure. The Irish travellers are not related to the Roma gypsies of Europe, but they live a similar lifestyle so they're called gypsies sometimes.

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"This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man." - The Dude

I assume there are some in the US as well.

The few I saw in Montreal were begging with their little children in the middle of a school day.

I recently saw a report on the Roms in Hungary. There are now directives to battle the systematic prejudice that these people face in modern-day Hungary, especially in schools.

yeah there are 'nomadic/travelling' peoples here but, i dont think they are of rom descent...

although not all of the travelling peoples in the US are Roma.

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"This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man." - The Dude

"But Richard Gravett, chairman of Firle Bonfire Society, said: 'There was no racist slant towards anyone from the Travelling community. If anything, it's actually completely the other way.

'It is to try to make people sit up and listen and realise that these people obviously - as all of us do - need somewhere to live.'"

Right. I actually saw a report on this on ITV and some guy from the bonfire claimed that the negative sentiments were actually directed at the local council. If that was the real case, then why not burn the council members in effigy? Dummy.

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"This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man." - The Dude

the forefathers to the peckerwoods we have here.

I just hope the numbers of non anglo europeans keeps growing like it's projected to.

Sorry don't have sources to quote, but in Eastern Europe they are treated like Australian Aborigines were up to the 1970s.

In countries like bulgaria, romania, they are automatically associated with stealing. (Although i have read that the government in romania have started moving in the direction of reckognizing the rom people.) But i know that in norway they have been discriminated and ill treated up until the second world war. Many men were even castrated and children were taken away from their families and put into children's homes. (Not on some aryan ideology shit.. they were seen as having a bad culture that couldn't be allowed to spread. It's the worst action that my country is responsible for that i am aware of.) After the second world war, from the 50s up to the 70s, there were also efforts to force Rom families to settle in public housings! you can imagine that that wasn't easy, but it was done to many.

They are a very proud people with a strong culture. Whish i knew more, since somewhere back in my tree of forefathers there is a forefather who was rom. A rom "company of travellers" migrated north up norway through the village where my family name comes from, and supposedly they also stopped in that village for a while. Then comes a long row of norwegians with dark eyes, hair and skin that is abit more brown than what's typical for norwegians.....

My father was mistaken for being Rom when he used to be a taxi driver and had the Rom king, who lives in norway, in the car. My father said no, he was norwegian. The Rom king became angry and wanted him to admit that he was a Rom, and to stop being ashamed of his true culture. Soon, when my old man kept saying he wasn't romani, the king even said he'd kill him, saying it in anger. Not that he'd do it, but it is a people with plenty of temperament.
(actually there are two who claim to be the rom king, also one in italy.. and there's been plenty disagreements over that.)

Reading this story prompted me to do a little research. I was surprised to read that the Romani Gypsies were originally from India..I work with an international music company and we feature quite a few gypsy bands and I just assumed they were of European origin.

Here is one of the sites I found particularly interesting

http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5121/patrin.htm

they are not untouchables but were part of a warrior cast that left India long time ago.

Indo-aryan whatever you want to call it
the languages of the region share a common parent

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"This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man." - The Dude

people suck...

>people suck...

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"This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man." - The Dude

documentary. The Wonderful Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl.
She used Gypsies from concentration camps for her movie Tiefland..which was filmed right before WWII. Afterwards, they were sent back to die.

Of course Leni denied knowing anything about this...even though
the records exist showing dates, names and ages.


<~~~~~~~Go-Go Yubari is gangsta!!!
.
.




~~~~~~OKP SIGS OF THE MONTH~~~~~~~

If you're out there you're vulnerable. People prefer to disappear in life to repress their personality. That's not living. It's dying. I see them all over the place, the walking dead. --Grace Jones

Religion is like prison, keep people locked up in different divisions.
Some of them promise you heaven,
but I see a lot of bullshit ism schism,
materialism in the form of spiritually, slave mentality, escape reality....--Dead Prez on that



*****************************

Recommended reading:

******Parable of the Sower- by Octavia Butler*******
Story about a hyper-empath who becomes the founder of a humanist cult created to transform the destiny of humankind

******The spirit of Terrorism- Jean Baudrillard*******
A MUST read for every thinking being
online copy @
http://awake.sparklehouse.com/downloads/papers/baud_terr.html

Obviouslt the holocaust was very bad, but I cant work out if she did them a favour or harmed them...

if she had been like Schindler and saved them from death in the camps then yeah, but she used them for slave labor and then when she was done with them sent them back to the concentration camps to die... and you can't figure out if that was bad?

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"This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man." - The Dude

For that period...

she didn't take them on an extended weekend furlough so they could get some fresh air and sunshine - she took them from the camps to use as slave labor, and when she was done with them, she sent them back to the camps to die. I really don't understand why you are defending that Nazi bitch.

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"This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man." - The Dude

Just am not sure this is as cut and dried as you think.

that's pretty cut and dried. And your post # 31 was defending her.

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"This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man." - The Dude

If the war had ended when those people were out, she could have remodelled herself as a heroine of the resistance, a la Schindler...

Now I havent researched this, although I did read an article about it a while ago. Im not saying she wasnt evil, Im saying that I dont know for sure.

Im sorry I brought it up really. This board seems to be based on absolutes, people have an opinion and stick to it and repeat it again and again and again (I have been guilty of this). Sometimes I just like to explore the possibilities of a situation. And dont worry, I am far from a Nazi sympathiser.

>If the war had ended when those people were out, she could
>have remodelled herself as a heroine of the resistance, a la
>Schindler...

No, bc Schindler did alot more to save the Jews who worked for him than just randomly happen to have them at his factory when the war ended.

>Now I havent researched this, although I did read an article
>about it a while ago. Im not saying she wasnt evil, Im
>saying that I dont know for sure.

And I'm not saying she was Dr. Mengele here, but she went right along with the Nazi program, so she is at best complicit in Nazi crimes, in particular the use of slave labor.

>Im sorry I brought it up really. This board seems to be
>based on absolutes, people have an opinion and stick to it
>and repeat it again and again and again (I have been guilty
>of this). Sometimes I just like to explore the possibilities
>of a situation. And dont worry, I am far from a Nazi
>sympathiser.

Well it's fine to explore the possibilities of the situation, but at the end of the day some things in life are in fact absolutes. And I certainly don't think that you're a Nazi sympathiser, but I do think you're getting too caught up in playing devil's advocate here.

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"This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man." - The Dude

About her.

is that the Gypsies are more 'Aryan' (Romani is an Indo-Aryan language) than the Germans.

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"This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man." - The Dude

anything resembeling blond hair or blue eyes.


<~~~~~~~Go-Go Yubari is gangsta!!!
.
.




~~~~~~OKP SIGS OF THE MONTH~~~~~~~

If you're out there you're vulnerable. People prefer to disappear in life to repress their personality. That's not living. It's dying. I see them all over the place, the walking dead. --Grace Jones

Religion is like prison, keep people locked up in different divisions.
Some of them promise you heaven,
but I see a lot of bullshit ism schism,
materialism in the form of spiritually, slave mentality, escape reality....--Dead Prez on that



*****************************

Recommended reading:

******Parable of the Sower- by Octavia Butler*******
Story about a hyper-empath who becomes the founder of a humanist cult created to transform the destiny of humankind

******The spirit of Terrorism- Jean Baudrillard*******
A MUST read for every thinking being
online copy @
http://awake.sparklehouse.com/downloads/papers/baud_terr.html

or something... and yeah, he didn't exactly look like the ideal Aryan Übermensch he was always prattling on about.

And of course, he wasn't even German, he was Austrian... Germans look down on Austrians kinda like how Americans look down on Canadians.

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"This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man." - The Dude

in Triumph Des Willens --that masterpiece of propaganda.

And with rumors of homosexuality to top it off, Hitler was probably the epitomy of self-hatred--and Hoover was a close second.

... two great tastes that go great together!


Otherwise, yeah, Co-Sign. Eva Braun was a MAN, baby!

"Pikey" is a derogatory term for the Irish gypsies, or all gypsies? I know "Pike" is a term for traveling Irish.

it's for all gypsies, not just Irish. The specific derogatory term for Irish gypsies in Ireland is tinkers, but I don't think they use that in England, they apparently just go with the all-purpose 'pikeys'.

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"This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man." - The Dude

why do ppl hate them? i mean what have they done???
and yeah the UK is becoming increasingly worrying ... all you hear about is racism. that's damn scary

they're thought of as squatters and thieves. The slang word 'gyp' comes from the word gypsy.

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"This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man." - The Dude

never heard of gypsies stealing... or it's just me
-

there was this 1/2 Gypsy comedian Freddie Prinze, he had a joke that goes "My mother's Puerto Rican and my father's a Gypsy - they met on the subway when they were picking each other's pockets."

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"This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man." - The Dude

Ask one of your lecturers about an ethnography of gypsies in this country. There have been some done recently by a woman whose name I have forgotten. Fascinating shit. If your lecturers cant do it, contact UKC in Canterbury. Or inbox me and I will tell you who to email.

-