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Forum nameOkay Activist Archives
Topic subjectthe feminine divine
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=22&topic_id=31456
31456, the feminine divine
Posted by LexM, Thu Aug-04-05 02:32 PM
what does this mean to you?

with all the discussion of religion/spirituality lately, i wanted to bring something to the table that's rarely mentioned in our fussin' and fightin': the role of goddess and priestess--both in the ancient world & the modern.

i'm particularly interested in the views of women who adhere to patriarchial religions (islam, judeo-christian). imo, the reason why we have some of these imbalances today is because we have forgotten the feminine divine.

you have the father, son, and (imo, purposely ambiguous) holy ghost...but no mention of the mother/female principle. where do you fit in?

(catholicism is a pseudo-special case...but that's another post altogether)

allah appears a little more gender-neutral, but you wouldn't know it from the dynamics of most of the islamic communities i've been privy to.

here's some food for thought to get you going:

~short summaries of various goddesses: http://www.lunaea.com/goddess/contents.html

~thoughts on feminine divinity: http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/Brockway4.html

~definition of the triple goddess (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goddess)

Goddesses or demi-goddesses appear in sets of three in a number of ancient European pagan mythologies; these include the Greek Erinyes (Furies) and Moirae (Fates); the Norse Norns (Fates); Brighid and her two sisters, also called Brighid, from Irish or Keltoi mythology, and so on. One might also see the three witches in Shakespeare's Macbeth as following this pattern. Robert Graves popularised the triad of "Maiden" (or "Virgin"), "Mother" and "Crone", and while this idea did not rest on sound scholarship, his poetic inspiration has gained a tenacious hold. Considerable variation in the precise conceptions of these figures exists, as typically occurs in Neopaganism and indeed in pagan religions in general. Some choose to interpret them as three stages in a woman's life, separated by menarche and menopause. Others find this too biologically based and rigid, and prefer a freer interpretation, with the Maiden as birth (independent, self-centred, seeking), the Mother as giving birth (interrelated, compassionate nurturing, creating), and the Crone as death and renewal (wholistic, remote, unknowable) and all three erotic and wise. Often three of the four phases of the moon (waxing, full, waning) symbolise the three aspects of the Triple Goddess: put together they appear in a single symbol comprising a circle flanked by two mirrored crescents. Some, however, find the triple incomplete, and prefer to add a fourth aspect. This might be a "Dark Goddess" or "Wisewoman", perhaps as suggested by the missing dark of the moon in the symbolism above, or it might be a specifically erotic goddess standing for a phase of life between Maiden (Virgin) and Mother, or a Warrior between Mother and Crone. There is a male counterpart of this in the English poem "The Parlement of the Thre Ages".

The Triple Goddess as Maiden, Mother and Crone has also reached modern popular culture, such as Neil Gaiman's own conception of the Furies in The Sandman, and elsewhere.

~ma'at http://www.touregypt.net/godsofegypt/maat.htm

~nut and geb (aka..."father" earth and "mother" sky)
http://www.egyptianmyths.net/geb.htm

~ameratsu, japanese sun goddess--that's her on the flag. ;-)
http://www.lyricalworks.com/stories/amaterasu/amaterasu1.htm

and countless, countless others.

let's big up the ORIGINAL mother of us all, hmm?
31457, 2 of my favorites....
Posted by LexM, Thu Aug-04-05 02:42 PM
yemoja/yemanja--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemaja

In Yorb mythology, Yemoja is a mother goddess; patron deity of women, especially pregnant women; and the Ogun river (the waters of which are said to cure infertility). Her parents are Oduduwa and Obatala. She had one son, Orungan, who raped her successfully one time and attempted a second time; she exploded instead, and fifteen Orishas came forth from her. They include Ogun, Olokun, Shopona and Shango.

Yemoja is also venerated in Vodun. Among the Umbandists, Yemoja is a goddess of the ocean and patron deity of the survivors of shipwrecks. In Santera, Yemoja is the equivalent of Our Lady of Regla.



oshun--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osun
In Yoruba mythology, Oshun (or Oschun) is a spirit-goddess (Orisha) who reigns over love, intimacy, beauty, wealth and diplomacy. She is worshipped also in Brazilian Candombl Ketu, with the name spelled Oxum.

Oshun is beneficient and generous, and very kind. She does, however, have a horrific temper, though it is difficult to anger her. She is married to Shango, the sky god, and is his favorite wife because of her excellent cooking skills. One of his other wives, Oba, was her rival. They are the goddesses of the Oshun and Oba rivers, which meet in a turbulent place with difficult rapids; their rivalry was symbolized in this intersection.


(you also may have heard of oshun as erzulie in haitian voudon http://www.pantheon.org/articles/e/erzulie.html)


~~~~
~*~musical revolution~*~

"The world was warned about this...The CIA calls what happened in London today "blowback." It is wrong, it is heinous, it is murder plain and simple, and it was as predictable as the sun rising in the East." ~Wm Rivers Pitt
31458, This is not correct.
Posted by ya Setshego, Thu Aug-04-05 04:35 PM
Oya is Shango's favorite wife, b/c she keeps him calm, and tempered his anger against the people of Oyo. It is for this reason that some people say that Oya and Oshun donot get along, and consequently, that Oya people and Oshun people won't get along, but that is not necessarily true...

>oshun--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osun
>In Yoruba mythology, Oshun (or Oschun) is a spirit-goddess
>(Orisha) who reigns over love, intimacy, beauty, wealth and
>diplomacy. She is worshipped also in Brazilian Candombl Ketu,
>with the name spelled Oxum.
>
>Oshun is beneficient and generous, and very kind. She does,
>however, have a horrific temper, though it is difficult to
>anger her. She is married to Shango, the sky god, and is his
>favorite wife because of her excellent cooking skills. One of
>his other wives, Oba, was her rival. They are the goddesses of
>the Oshun and Oba rivers, which meet in a turbulent place with
>difficult rapids; their rivalry was symbolized in this
>intersection.
>
>
>(you also may have heard of oshun as erzulie in haitian voudon
>http://www.pantheon.org/articles/e/erzulie.html)
>
>
>~~~~
>~*~musical revolution~*~
>
>"The world was warned about this...The CIA calls what happened
>in London today "blowback." It is wrong, it is heinous, it is
>murder plain and simple, and it was as predictable as the sun
>rising in the East." ~Wm Rivers Pitt
31459, thanks for that...i didn't read the whole descrip
Posted by LexM, Thu Aug-11-05 06:44 AM
and even if i did, i probably wouldn't have caught that. i don't know all the myths.
31460, i think it depends on who you're asking...
Posted by serpentinefire, Mon Aug-22-05 03:40 PM
if you ask people in Oya's town who Sango's favorite wife is they're gonna say Oya...if you ask people in Osogbo who Sango's favorite wife is they're gonna say Osun

usually when you read or hear about rivalry between the wives of Oba Koso (Sango) it is Osun and Oya teaming up against Sango's first wife Oba...

Oya won Sango with her grace and charm, it is she who wears pants and puts on a beard and rides with him into war. She is the one who gave him lightning and fire...so "all of the things that make Sango fly came from a woman" --Iya Osunyemi Akalatunde

and it is worth noting that Oya was Oba (ruler) in her own right before she met Sango...


We were taught in my house that Osun's perfect counterpart is Sango (Yemoja's perfect counterpart is Ogun)

A good case can probably be made for either of them tho

Osun rules feminity, female sexuality/sensuality and the female reproductive organs, and she is the erotic impulse to come together, and the act of copulation itself

Sango rules masculinity, male sexuality/sensuality, and the male reproductive organs, he is the wrath of the oppressed, considered to be the ultimate father and husband

so Osun is the impluse to create and Sango is the drive to protect that which has been created...

as for children of Osun and Oya not getting along...i haven't seen that to be the case for me...or any of my friends...and if you examine the relationships between children of co-wives...usually the children of one call the other Mother as well or at least Auntie...

i personally LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE Oya...she has always been the loving but stern auntie that won't let me get away with any nonsense.

and for another sisterfriend of mine (also a child of Osun) Oya is the indulgent auntie who slips her candy when her momma said she couldn't have any.

-ramble over-

**************************************

Love...it is just friendship on fire.

--some dude in a lifetime movie
31461, What about Olu/Olodumare (Allah)?
Posted by Allah, Mon Aug-22-05 04:08 PM
:-P
Although I identify with that Sango description sometimes........
31462, RE: What about Olu/Olodumare (Allah)?
Posted by serpentinefire, Tue Aug-23-05 02:53 PM
the simplest way to describe the Olodumare/Orisa thing is diffused monotheism...

Olodumare is the Supreme Being
He/She who spreads across the Universe like a mat

the orisa while considered to be "deities" are simply manifestations
of Olodumare

Olodumare as made manifest in sweet water is Osun
Olodumare as made manifest in epidemic illness and healing is Babaluaiye
Olodumare as made manifest in the ocean is Yemoja
Olodumare as made manifest in farming is Orisa Oko and Onile

etc. etc.

the word Orisa means "select head" meaning that an orisa is the head of a particular thing

for example Sango is the "select head" of the thunderstorm
but Oya mixes it up in there, and if it's a hurricane believe that Yemoja and Olokun are up in there too

and you have to be careful of humanizing the orisa...the orisa are forces of nature...the personification of these forces of nature is designed to assist us in recognizing the Ase of the forces of nature as they manifest within ourselves...

essentially...everything that is, was, and shall be is a manifestation of the Most High



**************************************

Love...it is just friendship on fire.

--some dude in a lifetime movie
31463, i think that's one of the most concise explanations
Posted by LexM, Tue Aug-23-05 02:58 PM
i've ever read on that

ha.


~~~~
~*~40 yrs. 6 days.~*~

"The world was warned about this...The CIA calls what happened in London today "blowback." It is wrong, it is heinous, it is murder plain and simple, and it was as predictable as the sun rising in the East." ~Wm Rivers Pitt
31464, *curtsey*...i'm fo the people
Posted by serpentinefire, Tue Aug-23-05 04:38 PM

**************************************

Love...it is just friendship on fire.

--some dude in a lifetime movie
31465, How is this different from Vedic philosophy (pantheism)?
Posted by Allah, Tue Aug-23-05 04:41 PM
also Totenism (native "american")

Although I saw some native americans at the yoruba festival......
31466, in my understanding
Posted by LexM, Wed Aug-24-05 08:13 AM
they're all sort of cut from the same cloth.

i have yet to come across a belief system that's *truly* "polytheistic" or, to be clearer, that all the gods/goddesses are separate entities in their own right, not simply manifestations of the one creator/creatrix. just about every native american tradition i know of, for example, mentions the "Great Spirit" or some variation.

individuals practicing said faith might take things to extremes, but if you talk to spiritual leaders across the board (the exception appears to be the western traditions), you get an "all is one, one is all" kind of feel.

could be wrong. *shrug*.
31467, totemism...n/m
Posted by serpentinefire, Thu Aug-25-05 02:56 PM
people have totems in ifa too

it had to do with your ancestral lineage...

one of mine is the electric mudfish
another of them is the poisoned arrow
**************************************

Love...it is just friendship on fire.

--some dude in a lifetime movie
31468, What if to me the Supreme Being is Man?
Posted by Allah, Tue Aug-23-05 04:39 PM
that CONTROLS the forces of nature?
31469, i'd say cool...rock that on out homie...
Posted by serpentinefire, Tue Aug-23-05 04:49 PM
i happen to have a different perspective...*shrug*
as long as you ain't tryna control this here force of nature (meaning me) you and i have no problems...
**************************************

Love...it is just friendship on fire.

--some dude in a lifetime movie
31470, I think it's Peace that we agree that YOU are a "force of nature....."
Posted by Allah, Tue Aug-23-05 05:34 PM
as opposed to "not". Peace.
31471, *chuckle* wrd. peace
Posted by serpentinefire, Thu Aug-25-05 02:57 PM

**************************************

Love...it is just friendship on fire.

--some dude in a lifetime movie
31472, I like this!
Posted by ya Setshego, Tue Oct-04-05 09:16 AM

**************************************
>>Love...it is just friendship on fire.
>
>--some dude in a lifetime movie
31473, I apologize
Posted by ya Setshego, Tue Oct-04-05 09:26 AM
for 'sleeping' on this. I'm diggin' what U've said here. Indeed, Osun comes to me as a nurturing 'auntie' when I'm feeling down, when I'm feeling ugly(she reminds me to be Beauty, embrace my Beauty, etc.)Mama Oya fights for me, and guides me(w/ the wisdom & through the grace of Oludumare, of course) to try to help me understand that I don't always(if ever) have to fight, fight, fight for myself, EVEN *gasps* when I perceive myself to be under attack, or threatened(hard lesson for me to learn, so I keep having to learn the d*** thing OVER, AND OVER, AND OVER AGAIN. maybe one day I'll get it, who knows?). I LITERALLY sleep below a Masaai warrior shield @ night, which might not be taking me in the right direction on this thing, but anyway... Osun protects me though. PARTICULARLY when I'm away from home. Or lost. She never fails to come forward, to be w/ me, when I need her. I don't even have to ask. Sometimes I do, out of desperation, but even when I don't, they show up, and do what needs to be done, to help me do what "I" need to do. It's amazing. & I love it.

>>>if you ask people in Oya's town who Sango's favorite wife is
>they're gonna say Oya...if you ask people in Osogbo who
>Sango's favorite wife is they're gonna say Osun
>
>usually when you read or hear about rivalry between the wives
>of Oba Koso (Sango) it is Osun and Oya teaming up against
>Sango's first wife Oba...
>
>Oya won Sango with her grace and charm, it is she who wears
>pants and puts on a beard and rides with him into war. She is
>the one who gave him lightning and fire...so "all of the
>things that make Sango fly came from a woman" --Iya Osunyemi
>Akalatunde
>
>and it is worth noting that Oya was Oba (ruler) in her own
>right before she met Sango...
>
>
>We were taught in my house that Osun's perfect counterpart is
>Sango (Yemoja's perfect counterpart is Ogun)
>
>A good case can probably be made for either of them tho
>
>Osun rules feminity, female sexuality/sensuality and the
>female reproductive organs, and she is the erotic impulse to
>come together, and the act of copulation itself
>
>Sango rules masculinity, male sexuality/sensuality, and the
>male reproductive organs, he is the wrath of the oppressed,
>considered to be the ultimate father and husband
>
>so Osun is the impluse to create and Sango is the drive to
>protect that which has been created...
>
>as for children of Osun and Oya not getting along...i haven't
>seen that to be the case for me...or any of my friends...and
>if you examine the relationships between children of
>co-wives...usually the children of one call the other Mother
>as well or at least Auntie...
>
>i personally LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE Oya...she has always
>been the loving but stern auntie that won't let me get away
>with any nonsense.
>
>and for another sisterfriend of mine (also a child of Osun)
>Oya is the indulgent auntie who slips her candy when her momma
>said she couldn't have any.
>
>-ramble over-
>
>**************************************
>
>Love...it is just friendship on fire.
>
>--some dude in a lifetime movie
31474, Wow
Posted by Nettrice, Thu Aug-04-05 05:56 PM
>Oshun is beneficient and generous, and very kind. She does,
>however, have a horrific temper, though it is difficult to
>anger her.

This really does sound like me. :)
31475, Cosign!
Posted by Sudani, Wed Aug-10-05 04:56 PM
ditto!
31476, more on Yemoja...
Posted by serpentinefire, Mon Aug-29-05 04:45 PM
Yemoja rules the traditional ways of doing things
her colors are blue and white and crystal
her animals are all sealife, seagulls and ducks
her number is 7
her metal is silver
her children are not supposed to eat molasses or fish

**************************************

Love...it is just friendship on fire.

--some dude in a lifetime movie
31477, recommended reading...
Posted by serpentinefire, Mon Aug-29-05 04:58 PM
When God Was a Woman...Merlin Stone

Excellent read...kind of dense...but lovely...i followed it up with

Ishmael by Daniel Quinn GOOD BUSINESS

Osun Across the Waters

Black Gods...John Mason (actually anything that he writes is wonderful...i just purchase his stuff automatically) he's very thorough...

this is always the first book that i recommend to people who are interested in the religion

Okp Oshunschile is a priestess of Oshuna and she's recently written a book that is FABULOUS...hit my inbox if you're interested in getting a copy...she doesn't check her inbox that often...

Fatunbi has a set of small books on the orisa that i have found helpful...they're about 5 bucks each

and Audre Lorde's essay on the Erotic as Power...



**************************************

Love...it is just friendship on fire.

--some dude in a lifetime movie
31478, oh yeah
Posted by LexM, Tue Aug-30-05 08:07 AM
>and Audre Lorde's essay on the Erotic as Power...

i think i'll find a copy of that & post it up

thanks for the reminder :)

~~~~
~*~40 yrs. 6 days.~*~

"The world was warned about this...The CIA calls what happened in London today "blowback." It is wrong, it is heinous, it is murder plain and simple, and it was as predictable as the sun rising in the East." ~Wm Rivers Pitt
31479, mami wata
Posted by LexM, Thu Aug-04-05 02:43 PM
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/m/mami_wata.html

Mami Wata is a water-spirit, sometimes described as a mermaid figure, who can found throughout the western coastal regions and into central Africa. Mami Wata is described as having long dark hair, very fair skin and compelling eyes. Although she may appear to her devotees (in dreams and visions) as a beautiful mermaid, complete with tail, she is also said to walk the streets of modern African cities in the guise of a gorgeous but elusive woman. She is interested in all things contemporary: some of her favorite offerings include sweet, imported perfumes, sunglasses and Coca-Cola. Nonetheless, the spirit appears to be related to other water spirits (known in Igbo, a language of southeastern Nigeria, as ndi mmili) who have a much longer history on the continent. Mami Wata's colors are red and white. Those she afflicts with visions and temptations, and who experience her as an obsession or an illness, may wear the red of sickness and dangerous heat. Others who have a more positive orientation towards the spirit may show their blessings by wearing white. Most devotees wear a combination of red and white clothing. Mami Wata is also said to have a number of avatars on earth--mortal women who have the same look as the deity and who act as her "daughters." Mami Wata may give wealth to her devotees, her "daughters" or to her (male) spouses, but she is never known to give fertility. Some Igbo stories suggest that the fish under the waters are her children, and that she uses them as firewood.

Mami Wata is sometimes seen as a metaphor for modern African conditions -- having the knowledge of global wealth and the desire for large-scale consumption, but lacking the actual wealth or access to the world's wealth that would enable Africans to participate in that system. A number of Africanist art historians have written about Mami Wata, notably Henry Drewal, as have anthropologists like myself. She is the subject of local poetry, song, paintings, carvings and now film.

31480, oya, mother of change
Posted by LexM, Thu Aug-04-05 02:47 PM
http://www.voiceofthoth.com/newslet3.htm
31481, RE: oya, mother of change
Posted by ya Setshego, Thu Aug-04-05 04:00 PM
I can personally attest to the change Mama Oya has manifested in my life, in a relatively short amount of time, under the guidance & protection of Oludumare(God). It's hard to believe, but this system works, if you work it. In fact, I'm very seriously considering becoming an Oya Priest.

>http://www.voiceofthoth.com/newslet3.htm
31482, i need to find my "parents"
Posted by LexM, Thu Aug-04-05 04:11 PM
instinctively i think yemaya is my mother...don't really have any inclinations towards who "dad" might be.

i was told at one point that i probably have a "high head" (i'm forgetting the yoruba term at the moment....*slaps forehead*)


~~~~
~*~musical revolution~*~

"The world was warned about this...The CIA calls what happened in London today "blowback." It is wrong, it is heinous, it is murder plain and simple, and it was as predictable as the sun rising in the East." ~Wm Rivers Pitt
31483, RE: i need to find my "parents"
Posted by ya Setshego, Thu Aug-04-05 04:21 PM
It helps and explains a lot once you do, lemme tell you. It's funny how you can only be who you are, even if you don't know who you are. That is what Ifa has taught me, so far.
31484, changing woman/estsanatlehi
Posted by LexM, Thu Aug-04-05 02:49 PM
http://www.awakenedwoman.com/changing_woman.htm

Long long ago Dawn came to Darkness, and Changing Woman was born. Golden rays of light carried her from the sky to a mountain top. The Four Winds swept down and breathed life into her, printing spirals on her fingers, head and toes. The Flowers surrounded and cradled her. Joyfully, the Blue Birds sang.

The Holy People, who lived below, sent Talking God up the mountain to find out what all the commotion was about. When Talking God reached the top, he found a beautiful baby girl lying in the grass. Gathering her into his arms, he carried her down the mountain. The People were delighted by her, and fed her pollen, animal broth and dew from the loveliest flowers.The little girl ran races. And Talking God sang to her. In four days, she was fully grown.

Bright red rain fell from inside her. The People stroked and painted her, dressing her in the finest deer-skin, shells and turquoise. "She moves," they sang. She moves, she moves, she moves. While they sang, she changed into an old woman. Then she changed back into a young woman. Again she changed into an old woman. And again she changed back into a young woman. Old, young, old, young-four times she changed, until she had become the finest young woman.

One day, when Changing Woman was out gathering seeds and berries, Sun came riding by on his white horse, wearing his whitest clothes. Stunned by the young woman's beauty, he blazed brilliantly, begging her to follow him on his journey to the far West. But Changing Woman protested. I would be too lonely, She replied. Still Sun persisted, Follow me, and we will be closer than we have ever been.

Finally Changing Woman was persuaded. And stepping on the back of a fog, she followed Sun westward to a majestic wild mountain, located in the middle of the ocean. Wind and Light came along to help Changing Woman build her new house. In the East, where Sun stood in the morning, they built a room entirely of white shell. In the West, they made a room of yellow abalone. Black Thunder arrived from the North, and sat down by a black cornstalk-there they built a room of pure black jet. In the South, they made a turquoise room with a turquoise door, and turquoise footprints leading to it.

Changing Woman's house was constructed of four stories, with ladders leading to each one. Little suns were placed in every room. In the center of the house, they built a rock crystal altar reflecting every color in the rainbow. There, in Crystal House, Changing Woman lived happily with Sun. She spat hailstones to clear the land of monsters. And one day, while resting below a shimmering waterfall, she conceived the twins, Monster Slayer and Child of the Waters.

Changing Woman taught the twins all her songs and dances. When they were fully grown, she put prayer sticks in their blankets and sent them on their way. Then she let out a piercing cry, that wrapped the whole island in grief. She rubbed skin off her body, and stirring into it shells, stone, sand, clay, pollen and foam-she made Chickens, Dogs, Goats, Sheep, Antelope and Horses. Finally, so she would never be lonely, she created Human Beings. She gave them pets, and stone canes for drawing water from the desert. Lifting her great bow, she shot rainbows into them-then blew them out over the wide ocean.

When Changing Woman was very old, so old she could barely move, Talking God reappeared at her door. This time he brought with him a Human boy and girl. In a flash, they had traveled on a bright rainbow to the coast, then crossed the green ocean on an underwater spiral. They followed the white trail to her house, and greeted the Four Directions. When Changing Woman's door opened, they saw the most beautiful young woman they had ever seen, dancing joyfully before her crystal altar. The children bowed. Changing Woman bathed them in her crystal bowl, dressed them in white and put feathers in their hair.

She sang:

Beauty before you,

Beauty behind you,

Beauty above you,

Beauty below you.

Walk now with Beauty around you

and your way will be beautiful.

Then Changing Woman sat down under a cornstalk. Blue Bird sat on a corn tassel. And Changing Woman sang every song she knew. Dancing through the pollen, she left her golden footprints everywhere.
31485, brigid
Posted by LexM, Thu Aug-04-05 02:52 PM
(even europeans had goddesses for a time. *grin*)

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/b/brigid.html

Name Cognates: Breo Saighead, Brid, Brighid , Brigindo, Brigandu , Brigan, Brigantia, Brigantis , Bride .

Breo Saighead, or the "Fiery Arrow or Power," is a Celtic three-fold goddess, the daughter of The Dagda, and the wife of Bres. Known by many names, Brighid's three aspects are (1) Fire of Inspiration as patroness of poetry, (2) Fire of the Hearth, as patroness of healing and fertility, and (3) Fire of the Forge, as patroness of smithcraft and martial arts. She is mother to the craftsmen. Sons of Tuireann: Creidhne, Luchtaine and Giobhniu...

Brigid, which means "one who exaults herself," is Goddess of the Sacred Flame of Kildare (derived from "Cill Dara," which means "church of the oak") and often is considered to be the White Maiden aspect of the Triple Goddess. She was Christianized as the "foster-mother" of Jesus Christ, and called St. Brigit, the daughter of the Druid Dougal the Brown. She sometimes also is associated with the Romano-Celtic goddess Aquae-Sulis in Bathe.


apparently, there's also a saint brigid: http://anamspirit.com/brigid.htm
31486, pele, hawaiian volcano goddess
Posted by LexM, Thu Aug-04-05 02:55 PM
http://www.coffeetimes.com/pele.htm

Described as "She-Who-Shapes-The-Sacred-Land" in ancient Hawaiian chants, the volcano goddess, Pele, was passionate, volatile, and capricious. In modern times, Pele has become the most visible of all the old gods and goddesses. Dwelling in the craters of the Big Island's Kilauea Volcano, she has been sending ribbons of fiery lava down the mountainside and adding new land around the southeastern shore almost continuously since 1983.

Pele was born of the female spirit Haumea, or Hina, who, like all other important Hawai'i gods and goddesses, descended from the supreme beings, Papa, or Earth Mother, and Wakea, Sky Father. Pele was among the first voyagers to sail to Hawai'i, pursued, legends say, by her angry older sister, Na-maka-o-kaha'i because Pele had seduced her husband. Pele landed first on Kaua'i, but every time she thrust her o'o (digging stick) into the earth to dig a pit for her home, Na-maka-o-kaha'i, goddess of water and the sea, would flood the pits. Pele moved down the chain of islands in order of their geological formation, eventually landing on the Big Island's Mauna Loa, which is considered the tallest mountain on earth when measured from its base at the bottom of the ocean.

31487, kali
Posted by LexM, Thu Aug-04-05 02:57 PM
http://www.sanatansociety.org/hindu_gods_and_goddesses/kali.htm

31488, Keep these coming
Posted by ya Setshego, Thu Aug-04-05 04:09 PM
They are good stuff. This post needs to be archived, eventually.


>http://www.sanatansociety.org/hindu_gods_and_goddesses/kali.htm
>
>
31489, sarasvati
Posted by LexM, Thu Aug-04-05 02:58 PM
http://www.lunaea.com/goddess/creativity/sarasvati.html

Sarasvati is the Hindu Goddess of all arts: music, painting, sculpture, dance, and writing. She is credited with presenting the gift of writing to mankind so that her songs could be written down and preserved. Sarasvati is often depicted on the back of a swan or peacock, and with four arms, with which she plays the lute or drum and bestows jeweled blessings. She is the Goddess of eloquence, and words pour from her like a sweetly flowing river. One myth of this Goddess is that She is a jealous rival of the Goddess of wealth, Lakshmi, and that pursuing wealth alone will assure that Sarasvati's gifts will desert you.
31490, I don't agree with this/them, but they have a good forum here
Posted by Allah, Thu Aug-04-05 03:14 PM
for that kind of thing

http://www.siriustimes.com/chatroom/index.php

Or it's alright or they are enthusiastic about that kind of
thing there.

This 108 Oracle, Black She "Devil" Sensual
"Supreme Being" kind of stuff.......

Peace.
31491, well, as i'm sure you know
Posted by LexM, Thu Aug-04-05 03:17 PM
i feel that some of the nge/5%nation can be just as patriarchial & sexist as the most righteous christian.

y'all just make it sound "pretty".

but we agree on more than we disagree, so....




~~~~
~*~musical revolution~*~

"The world was warned about this...The CIA calls what happened in London today "blowback." It is wrong, it is heinous, it is murder plain and simple, and it was as predictable as the sun rising in the East." ~Wm Rivers Pitt
31492, the "Holy Koran" or "Bible" was written by the Original Man
Posted by Allah, Thu Aug-04-05 03:19 PM
for "other people"..............
31493, that may be
Posted by LexM, Thu Aug-04-05 03:25 PM
but it doesn't explain the tenets of the culture you claim, nor the behaviors of the "poor righteous teachers" therein.

actually, i don't see what that has to do with what i was saying (or what you were saying, for that matter)

but aight.


~~~~
~*~musical revolution~*~

"The world was warned about this...The CIA calls what happened in London today "blowback." It is wrong, it is heinous, it is murder plain and simple, and it was as predictable as the sun rising in the East." ~Wm Rivers Pitt
31494, What I am saying is that there is nothing wrong with Patriarchy
Posted by Allah, Thu Aug-04-05 03:31 PM
but there is something wrong with Matricide through "false"
Patriarchy.............
31495, ok
Posted by LexM, Thu Aug-04-05 03:41 PM
.
31496, is there anything wrong with Matriarchy in your beleifs?
Posted by malang, Thu Aug-04-05 03:43 PM

.
31497, Matriarchy over an ENTIRE society is wrong to me
Posted by Allah, Thu Aug-04-05 03:53 PM
but "Matriarchy" over the RITES OF PASSAGE of females,
that's scientific to me.
31498, hmm...i beleive in matriarchy and patriarchy
Posted by malang, Thu Aug-04-05 03:55 PM
both need to exist within a society for there to be a healthy balance.....
31499, well so is patriarchy
Posted by LexM, Thu Aug-04-05 03:58 PM
there should be an even give & take
division of labor

etc.

balance.

no one should "rule" over the other.


we're different, yes. but equal.
and those parts are what form the whole.





~~~~
~*~musical revolution~*~

"The world was warned about this...The CIA calls what happened in London today "blowback." It is wrong, it is heinous, it is murder plain and simple, and it was as predictable as the sun rising in the East." ~Wm Rivers Pitt
31500, to me there needs to be a STRONG and RATIONAL Patriarchy
Posted by Allah, Thu Aug-04-05 04:04 PM
to protect the society in general from invaders and devils.
most patriarchies in existence are in fact maligned gender
classist societies instead of "wholistic" patriarchies.
(prepares to be flamed.......)
Peace.
31501, RE: to me there needs to be a STRONG and RATIONAL Patriarchy
Posted by ya Setshego, Thu Aug-04-05 04:06 PM

:7 :7 :7 :7 :7 :7 :7 :7 :7 :7 :7

>(prepares to be flamed.......)

31502, yep, getting ready for your feedback
Posted by Allah, Thu Aug-04-05 04:08 PM
:-P
Peace.
31503, No,
Posted by ya Setshego, Thu Aug-04-05 04:17 PM
I can dig it. Only b/c you prefaced it w/ a RATIONAL patriarchy. That is what's missing in the AA community right now. The RATIONALITY of it. What I'm wondering though, is if it is possible for a society, or a community, to have a balance between patriarchy & matriarchy. Like, a co-existence, and co-leadership type of thing. I went to school w/ this guy, whose family was Mexican and African-American, and they believed in co-leadership of the parents, and co-representation of the the lineages through their progeny. Consequently, the dude's last name was hyphenated. His father's African-American name first, followed by his mother's Mexican name. Other boys in the family had the reverse, so that either way, both names would be carried down through the generations, assuming all of the boys had offspring. I thought that was very interesting. Kind of like the mayor of L.A., who took on part of his wife's name, and combined it w/ his, so that both of their names will be passed down to their children, grand-children, etc.
31504, that's what i'm saying
Posted by LexM, Wed Aug-10-05 02:10 PM
black men, in their frustrations, have sometimes taken it upon themselves to beat down black women/children.

and that's not right.

31505, that's fine
Posted by LexM, Thu Aug-04-05 04:08 PM
to a point. but there are plenty of us who are warriors, too.

as long as we can agree on that, i'm cool.

~~~~
~*~musical revolution~*~

"The world was warned about this...The CIA calls what happened in London today "blowback." It is wrong, it is heinous, it is murder plain and simple, and it was as predictable as the sun rising in the East." ~Wm Rivers Pitt
31506, Okay, so
Posted by ya Setshego, Thu Aug-04-05 04:26 PM
it's okay for women to lead other women, but NEVER okay for a woman to lead men? *staring intently, awaiting a carefully constructed answer*


>but "Matriarchy" over the RITES OF PASSAGE of females,
>that's scientific to me.
31507, There is nothing wrong w/ Matriarchy, either-n/m
Posted by ya Setshego, Thu Aug-04-05 04:04 PM
.
31508, Definitely, to this...
Posted by malang, Thu Aug-04-05 03:25 PM
>allah appears a little more gender-neutral, but you wouldn't
>know it from the dynamics of most of the islamic communities
>i've been privy to.


Conceptually, Allah is beyond gender. but since arabic is a gendered language Allah is often referred to using the male pronouns in the Quran....but there are instances of Allah being referred to in the feminine as well. and while using gendered pronouns is common, actually assigning gender to Allah would/should be semi-blasphemous....

the atrributes of masculine and feminine stem and flow from the Divine, but they cannot be ascribed to the Divine. the Divine is beyond gender. its very similar to taoist conceptualisation....and some work is being done making this connection.....

but yes, sadly, most muslim communities reflect and inject their own patriarchical beliefs into their understanding of Islam, or also intentionally twist it to suit their agendas....

31509, What if, in fact, Allah is a Man, or "Man himself"?
Posted by Allah, Thu Aug-04-05 03:30 PM
Instead of the mysterious extraterrestial out of body
transcendental ghost vapor bs that people advocate Allah is.........
31510, 112
Posted by malang, Thu Aug-04-05 03:36 PM






Say: Hu is Allah, the One and Only;
Allah, the eternally Besought of all!
Hu begetteth not nor was begotten.
And *none* is like Hu.
31511, To me all that means is the Father and Sun are One
Posted by Allah, Thu Aug-04-05 03:38 PM
it means that The Supreme Wisdom of the Man and his
Legacy will always exist. However to me that does not
disqualify physical procreation.
31512, are you trying to discuss it from *within* an Islamic/Quranic context
Posted by malang, Thu Aug-04-05 03:40 PM
or just your own views....

the whole concept of father/son is negated by the Quran....

31513, I am not using the Muslim view of Allah
Posted by Allah, Thu Aug-04-05 03:51 PM
I am using the Allah view of Allah.
Peace.
31514, also
Posted by malang, Thu Aug-04-05 03:38 PM
>mysterious extraterrestial out of body transcendental ghost vapor

^that definition^ would be unIslamic as well....
31515, I already know it's un Islamic, but muslims sure be advocating it`
Posted by Allah, Thu Aug-04-05 03:39 PM
31516, *shrug*
Posted by malang, Thu Aug-04-05 03:42 PM
.
31517, well a lot of christians
Posted by LexM, Thu Aug-04-05 03:40 PM
>Conceptually, Allah is beyond gender.

will say the same thing, but when one of the apostles himself is a raving mysogynist...

i guess my question is, what came first? the exclusively male god, or the culture that spawned him.


>but since arabic is a
>gendered language Allah is often referred to using the male
>pronouns in the Quran....but there are instances of Allah
>being referred to in the feminine as well. and while using
>gendered pronouns is common, actually assigning gender to
>Allah would/should be semi-blasphemous....

yeah. that's what i meant in my original statement. muslims and the koran itself are a little better about that than judeo-christian groups with the constant "heavenly father" references.


>the atrributes of masculine and feminine stem and flow from
>the Divine, but they cannot be ascribed to the Divine. the
>Divine is beyond gender. its very similar to taoist
>conceptualisation....and some work is being done making this
>connection.....

i agree, actually.

i don't believe in God as being male or female, as such. in describing different *aspects* or manifestations of God/Divinity, however, i think it might be appropriate to break those down into "masculine" and "feminine" as necessary for understanding.

i just don't feel you can have one without the other. if you're going to speak to one, you need to balance the equation. otherwise things aren't gonna come out right.


>but yes, sadly, most muslim communities reflect and inject
>their own patriarchical beliefs into their understanding of
>Islam, or also intentionally twist it to suit their
>agendas....

true indeed.

it's sad. and i find it abhorrent that women have had to suffer so widely for that.



~~~~
~*~musical revolution~*~

"The world was warned about this...The CIA calls what happened in London today "blowback." It is wrong, it is heinous, it is murder plain and simple, and it was as predictable as the sun rising in the East." ~Wm Rivers Pitt
31518, RE: well a lot of christians
Posted by malang, Thu Aug-04-05 03:49 PM
>will say the same thing, but when one of the apostles himself
>is a raving mysogynist...

Paul? i wont comment too much on him....but i dont consider him an apostle....in fact the exact opposite....

>i guess my question is, what came first? the exclusively male
>god, or the culture that spawned him.

different and places the knowledge of the Divine manifested in different ways, mostly according to the understanding of the societies.....but the twisting of that for agendas is human maniplation....


>i don't believe in God as being male or female, as such. in
>describing different *aspects* or manifestations of
>God/Divinity, however, i think it might be appropriate to
>break those down into "masculine" and "feminine" as necessary
>for understanding.
>
>i just don't feel you can have one without the other. if
>you're going to speak to one, you need to balance the
>equation. otherwise things aren't gonna come out right.

word. its ok to break down the Divine, which is beyond encapsulating comprehension, into understandable concepts, but we have to be careful not to project those concepts back up, or to let certain concepts dominate over others...

>it's sad. and i find it abhorrent that women have had to
>suffer so widely for that.

indeed
31519, i can get with that
Posted by LexM, Thu Aug-04-05 03:57 PM
>Paul? i wont comment too much on him....but i dont consider
>him an apostle....in fact the exact opposite....

hmm...now that's interesting.
elaborate if you like...you can't insult me. ha.



>>i guess my question is, what came first? the exclusively
>male
>>god, or the culture that spawned him.
>
>different and places the knowledge of the Divine manifested in
>different ways, mostly according to the understanding of the
>societies.....but the twisting of that for agendas is human
>maniplation....

true. that's my thought as well.
i guess my question has always been when did that domination have to mean male trumps female?

'cause it's obvious that wasn't always the case. i used to think it was just eastern/african, then i started learning about the western earth-based religions that also incorporated elements of the divine feminine on equal standing with male counterparts.

it seems that, usually, the difference has been agricultural vs. technological/industrial societies. the more "science" takes over, the more "male" god becomes.


>word. its ok to break down the Divine, which is beyond
>encapsulating comprehension, into understandable concepts, but
>we have to be careful not to project those concepts back up,
>or to let certain concepts dominate over others...

most def.





~~~~
~*~musical revolution~*~

"The world was warned about this...The CIA calls what happened in London today "blowback." It is wrong, it is heinous, it is murder plain and simple, and it was as predictable as the sun rising in the East." ~Wm Rivers Pitt
31520, RE: i can get with that
Posted by malang, Thu Aug-04-05 04:13 PM
>hmm...now that's interesting.
>elaborate if you like...you can't insult me. ha.

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, ***even now are there many antichrists among us***; whereby we know that it is the last time. John 2:18

check ya inbox....


>true. that's my thought as well.
>i guess my question has always been when did that domination
>have to mean male trumps female?
>
>it seems that, usually, the difference has been agricultural
>vs. technological/industrial societies. the more "science"
>takes over, the more "male" god becomes.

i think a better argument could be made between hunter/gatherer VS. agricultural......but yeah....i agree...

31521, do U B going to the Yoruba festivals up there in B'more?
Posted by Allah, Thu Aug-04-05 03:37 PM
I was invited to observe one last weekend. Peace.
31522, i haven't heard of any
Posted by LexM, Thu Aug-04-05 03:42 PM
my loctitian is in training to be a priestess. i've talked to her godmother...i know there's a community, but i've never been to any festivals/services.

i'd like to, though. i'm very interested in ifa.

~~~~
~*~musical revolution~*~

"The world was warned about this...The CIA calls what happened in London today "blowback." It is wrong, it is heinous, it is murder plain and simple, and it was as predictable as the sun rising in the East." ~Wm Rivers Pitt
31523, check your inbox
Posted by Allah, Thu Aug-04-05 03:44 PM
Peace.
31524, Where are you located?
Posted by ya Setshego, Thu Aug-04-05 03:55 PM

>>i'd like to, though. i'm very interested in ifa.
>
>~~~~
>~*~musical revolution~*~
>
>"The world was warned about this...The CIA calls what happened
>in London today "blowback." It is wrong, it is heinous, it is
>murder plain and simple, and it was as predictable as the sun
>rising in the East." ~Wm Rivers Pitt
31525, baltimore city
Posted by LexM, Thu Aug-04-05 04:01 PM
.
31526, RE: baltimore city
Posted by ya Setshego, Thu Aug-04-05 04:02 PM
Did Allah give you the information about the Ifa temple up there?
31527, lol...he told me to email u
Posted by LexM, Thu Aug-04-05 04:08 PM
i's gettin to it, i's gettin to it (c) harpo


~~~~
~*~musical revolution~*~

"The world was warned about this...The CIA calls what happened in London today "blowback." It is wrong, it is heinous, it is murder plain and simple, and it was as predictable as the sun rising in the East." ~Wm Rivers Pitt
31528, RE: lol...he told me to email u
Posted by ya Setshego, Thu Aug-04-05 04:23 PM
Cool beans. I'll give you some info. Probably tomm.
31529, RE: i haven't heard of any
Posted by rhulah, Fri Aug-05-05 02:48 PM


There have been a quite few of them this summer. I ran into some Puerto Rican brothers from Philly who came down here in May at a park not to far from my aunt's shelter. It was off the hook son.




>my loctitian is in training to be a priestess. i've talked to
>her godmother...i know there's a community, but i've never
>been to any festivals/services.
>
>i'd like to, though. i'm very interested in ifa.
>
>~~~~
>~*~musical revolution~*~
>
>"The world was warned about this...The CIA calls what happened
>in London today "blowback." It is wrong, it is heinous, it is
>murder plain and simple, and it was as predictable as the sun
>rising in the East." ~Wm Rivers Pitt
31530, a recommendation for you
Posted by aslan21, Thu Aug-04-05 03:57 PM
LexM,

I watched this video about a month ago. I think you should check it out. You will find it interesting. I was going to share something that I had heard at the local mosque, but I want to get the facts straight first.

besides, malang holds down the islamic perspective very well.

http://onlineislamicstore.com/b8150.html

..............................................................
The military and the monetary
Get together whenever they think its necessary
They have turned our brothers and sisters into mercenaries,
They are turning the planet into a cemetery.

The military and the monetary
Use the media as intermediaries.

Gil Scott
31531, sorry, wrong link
Posted by aslan21, Thu Aug-04-05 04:05 PM
http://store.yahoo.com/talkislam/a3866.html

this is the video I watched.

I haven't read the book, although it looks interesting.

peace

31532, *bookmarks that too*
Posted by LexM, Thu Aug-04-05 04:06 PM
lol
31533, *bookmarks page*
Posted by LexM, Thu Aug-04-05 04:05 PM
i've been reading the koran actually. some beautiful passages in there.

i don't believe in "covering", tho. *grin*

here's a book i found not too long ago...after i finish the koran, i think i'll go to the library (i need to do that more often...lol) and find it or buy my own copy: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0195128362/ref=ord_cart_shr/102-9524477-1344114?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

but your links bring up a good point: the role of women early in the "big 3" religions is sometimes far different from the messages we're fed today.

~~~~
~*~musical revolution~*~

"The world was warned about this...The CIA calls what happened in London today "blowback." It is wrong, it is heinous, it is murder plain and simple, and it was as predictable as the sun rising in the East." ~Wm Rivers Pitt
31534, a better book than wadud's
Posted by malang, Thu Aug-04-05 04:19 PM

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0791409147/103-0649229-7687813?v=glance


altho it focuses a little more on gender relationships....it does put some context on that being a reflection manifest...
31535, Auset
Posted by ya Setshego, Thu Aug-04-05 04:29 PM
http://users.lmi.net/maxdashu/kindreds/auset.html
31536, how could i forget her....
Posted by LexM, Wed Aug-10-05 02:14 PM
i *heart* isis

i have some "egyptian astrology" postcard in my bedroom mirror saying i'm born under her protection.

~~~~
~*~musical revolution~*~

"The world was warned about this...The CIA calls what happened in London today "blowback." It is wrong, it is heinous, it is murder plain and simple, and it was as predictable as the sun rising in the East." ~Wm Rivers Pitt
31537, You should
Posted by ya Setshego, Wed Aug-10-05 02:48 PM
be 'good 2 go' then...

>>i have some "egyptian astrology" postcard in my bedroom mirror
>saying i'm born under her protection.
>
>~~~~
>~*~musical revolution~*~
>
>"The world was warned about this...The CIA calls what happened
>in London today "blowback." It is wrong, it is heinous, it is
>murder plain and simple, and it was as predictable as the sun
>rising in the East." ~Wm Rivers Pitt
31538, Lilith
Posted by ya Setshego, Thu Aug-04-05 04:32 PM
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/Lilith/lilith.html
31539, RE: Lilith
Posted by rhulah, Fri Aug-05-05 02:11 PM

Hello Ya



>http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/Lilith/lilith.html
31540, loverly
Posted by Shimmy, Sat Aug-06-05 12:20 PM
when my daughter was young I would lay out my goddess tarot deck face down.

She would turn over the cards randomly and we'd name the goddess, and I'd tell her the mythology behind the archetype.
31541, that's what's up
Posted by LexM, Wed Aug-10-05 02:12 PM
*steals idea in case of childbirth one day*

lol


~~~~
~*~musical revolution~*~

"The world was warned about this...The CIA calls what happened in London today "blowback." It is wrong, it is heinous, it is murder plain and simple, and it was as predictable as the sun rising in the East." ~Wm Rivers Pitt
31542, So, um
Posted by ya Setshego, Wed Aug-10-05 02:42 PM

from WHERE might I obtain these goddess cards?

>when my daughter was young I would lay out my goddess tarot
>deck face down.
>
>She would turn over the cards randomly and we'd name the
>goddess, and I'd tell her the mythology behind the archetype.
31543, another favorite: kundalini
Posted by LexM, Wed Aug-10-05 02:18 PM
(and, judging by my recent attraction to spiral jewelry, she's probably working in/around me lately)

http://sivasakti.com/articles/tantra/art44.html

KUNDALINI might be interpreted both physically and metaphysically. The root KUNDA means "basin" or "source". From this point of view, kundalini means the mixture of primordial elements of earth. From a worldly, mundane point of view KUNDALINI appears regularly and produces real disasters once in a while as earthquakes and eruptions of volcanoes.

As far as "individual" kundalini is concerned, it is situated in the sexual region and represents a sort of "inner, hidden fire" with a huge potential. This KUNDALINI SHAKTI is, in fact, the sexual force itself that may enslave or free you from the human limited condition.

As a latent power, necessary to spiritual progress, kundalini shows especially to those who attempt to understand the mysteries of sexuality.

Tantra presents different methods of "waking up" and driving the kundalini energy. According to Gheranda Samhita, "The Great Goddess Kundalini, who is the primordial energy of the Self itself, sleeps in the region of sex. It has the shape of a snake coiled three and a half times.
31544, Yes!
Posted by ya Setshego, Wed Aug-10-05 02:47 PM
That's what's up, FOR REAL. I've pretty much decided that this is where I need to go, sexually. Biggie referred to it as: "Immaculate Sex". I STILL have not figured out how in the world he would know about tantra, but that Bro. was just full of surprises....


>http://sivasakti.com/articles/tantra/art44.html

>As far as "individual" kundalini is concerned, it is situated
>in the sexual region and represents a sort of "inner, hidden
>fire" with a huge potential. This KUNDALINI SHAKTI is, in
>fact, the sexual force itself that may enslave or free you
>from the human limited condition.
>
>As a latent power, necessary to spiritual progress, kundalini
>shows especially to those who attempt to understand the
>mysteries of sexuality.
>
>Tantra presents different methods of "waking up" and driving
>the kundalini energy. According to Gheranda Samhita, "The
>Great Goddess Kundalini, who is the primordial energy of the
>Self itself, sleeps in the region of sex. It has the shape of
>a snake coiled three and a half times.
>
31545, Shakti
Posted by ya Setshego, Wed Aug-10-05 02:52 PM


http://www.kalimandir.org/library/libraryhome.asp?page=articles&item=24_shakti.xml

31546, What Happen to the feminine role call?
Posted by da_afrocentric_pimpstah, Thu Aug-11-05 05:00 PM
Sekemet?
31547, Osumare --
Posted by da_afrocentric_pimpstah, Thu Aug-11-05 05:00 PM
--
31548, RE: Osumare --
Posted by ya Setshego, Fri Aug-12-05 09:11 AM
Could you share the story of these goddesses that you posted w/ us, pls?
31549, Sekemet --
Posted by da_afrocentric_pimpstah, Sat Aug-13-05 12:38 PM
Sorry this were extremely hard to find.

In Egyptian mythology, Sekhmet ("the powerful one") was a war and disease goddess. The center of her cult was in Memphis. Her husband was Ptah (later, as Ptah-Seker) and their son, Nefertem.

Ra, the sun god, sent Sekhmet (herein a possible malevolent aspect of Hathor-- Het-Hert) to destroy mortals who conspired against him; she grew very enthusiastic about this task and killed almost all of humanity. Re tricked her into drinking beer which he had colored like blood. She became so drunk that she was no longer able to continue the slaughter.

In spite of being a cause of disease, she was also prayed to for help in healing diseases. She was also associated with lionesses.

Other names
Sachmet
Sakhet
Sakhmet

31550, RE: Osumare --
Posted by da_afrocentric_pimpstah, Mon Aug-15-05 02:19 PM
http://www.hranajanto.com/goddessgallery/aidawedo.html


Also known as Aido Wedo


Aida Wedo
from Goddesses and Heroines Exerpt from Goddess & Heroines by Patricia Monaghan


The snake loa (spirit) in Benin and Haiti, she is the companion of the most popular god, Damballah-Wedo, also a serpent. She rules fire, water, wind and the rainbow. When she appears in a voudoun ritual, she slithers across the ground wearing a jeweled headdress that - like the treasure at the end of the rainbow - is elusive but enriches anyone who can grasp it. She is a New-World form of of the African goddess

31551, RE: Osumare --
Posted by serpentinefire, Tue Aug-23-05 04:46 PM
Osumare is a python with locs...the rainbow is her locs she is often considered to be the child of Nana Buruku along with Sakpata

she is female 6 months of the year and male 6 months of the year and in some houses she is considered to be an ancient road of Oshun

Aiedo Wedo is from the Fon pantheon of deities...she is a python and the rainbow is her body...she is the deities whose nams have been forgotten

her husband Damballah Wedo is also a python and he is white...he is the ancestors whose names have been forgotten

they exist entwined with each other and wrapped around the earth...they keep the atmosphere attached to the planet
**************************************

Love...it is just friendship on fire.

--some dude in a lifetime movie
31552, that is dope.
Posted by LexM, Wed Aug-24-05 08:31 AM
>Osumare is a python with locs...the rainbow is her locs she
>is often considered to be the child of Nana Buruku along with
>Sakpata
>
>she is female 6 months of the year and male 6 months of the
>year and in some houses she is considered to be an ancient
>road of Oshun
>
>Aiedo Wedo is from the Fon pantheon of deities...she is a
>python and the rainbow is her body...she is the deities whose
>nams have been forgotten
>
>her husband Damballah Wedo is also a python and he is
>white...he is the ancestors whose names have been forgotten
>
>they exist entwined with each other and wrapped around the
>earth...they keep the atmosphere attached to the planet

i love hearing how the ancestors made sense of the world...



~~~~
~*~40 yrs. 6 days.~*~

"The world was warned about this...The CIA calls what happened in London today "blowback." It is wrong, it is heinous, it is murder plain and simple, and it was as predictable as the sun rising in the East." ~Wm Rivers Pitt
31553, Are they both related?
Posted by da_afrocentric_pimpstah, Mon Aug-29-05 04:41 PM
Osumare & Aiedo Wido.
31554, RE: the feminine divine
Posted by lidawg, Fri Aug-12-05 05:01 PM
peace,
thanks for posting this..i was getting a little bored with okp for a sec.....

you may want to check out Merlin Stone's work When God Was A Woman. There's a proliferation of information within about goddesses native to the areas later populated by Christians/Judeo-Christians.

peace!
li

ps..good luck on finding out your 'parents'.
31555, actually
Posted by LexM, Mon Aug-15-05 10:45 AM
>you may want to check out Merlin Stone's work When God Was A
>Woman. There's a proliferation of information within about
>goddesses native to the areas later populated by
>Christians/Judeo-Christians.

i've heard of this book and i do plan on reading it, but i have a ton of other stuff to get thru first. the books are taking over my house...it's ridiculous.

>ps..good luck on finding out your 'parents'.

thanks. :)


~~~~
~*~40 yrs. 6 days.~*~

"The world was warned about this...The CIA calls what happened in London today "blowback." It is wrong, it is heinous, it is murder plain and simple, and it was as predictable as the sun rising in the East." ~Wm Rivers Pitt
31556, RE: actually
Posted by lidawg, Wed Aug-17-05 12:14 PM
i feel you completely in regards to the reading of books..i have a friend who's moving overseas and i'm trying to finish reading her books so that i can give them back b4 she leaves next month.

my dissertation is also more reading material and a friend just published a book recently so i'm trying to read it also.

for books re: the orisas, you can look at John Mason's works (e.g. Black Gods). there's also a wonderful text about Oshun...i forget the title...sorry..will get back to you on that one.

peace!
li
31557, I'm gonna show my ignorance here
Posted by tappenzee, Sat Aug-13-05 11:45 AM
I first learned of this entire concept from The DaVinci Code

It's some interesting stuff, though.
31558, it's all good
Posted by LexM, Mon Aug-15-05 10:43 AM
as long as ur still breathing, ur capable of learning.

:)

a lot of people don't approach Spirit this way because a male-centered perspective is taken for granted these days.

some say we're entering a new era of sorts; that since the male principle has taken over to the extent that imbalance is the norm, the Goddess is making herself known thru women and men open to Her message.
31559, yeah.
Posted by ya Setshego, Wed Aug-17-05 02:33 PM
>> we're entering a new era of sorts; that since the
>male principle has taken over to the extent that imbalance is
>the norm, the Goddess is making herself known thru women and
>men open to Her message.
31560, i thought you would find this interesting
Posted by aslan21, Thu Aug-25-05 03:12 PM
Further confirmation for this is supplied in a famous hadith:
'On the day that He created the heavens and the earth, God created a hundred rahmas, each of which is as great as the space which lies between heaven and earth. And He sent one rahma down to earth, by which a mother has rahma for her child.' (Muslim, Tawba, 21) Drawing on this explicit identification of rahma with the 'maternal' aspect of the phenomenal divine, the developed tradition of Sufism habitually identifies God's entire creative aspect as 'feminine', and as merciful. (13)

this is a famous hadith



peace

...............................................................

31561, Creativity and the Goddess...
Posted by serpentinefire, Mon Aug-29-05 02:52 PM
what i find to be fresh about this is that in ancient yorubaland
Creativity was the realm of Osun
it stems from the force of Eros...the force of attraction
attraction on any level from the attraction that brings atoms together to the attraction that causes you to purchase a painting to the attraction between two people...

it is from this erotic draw that all things are created and all of this is the real of Osun whose name means "the source"
**************************************

Love...it is just friendship on fire.

--some dude in a lifetime movie
31562, the erotic as power....audre lorde
Posted by LexM, Tue Aug-30-05 08:13 AM
(the best i could do was this excerpt. :( but if you don't have a copy of sister outsider already, you might wanna add it to your library.)

http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/g_l/lorde/erotic.htm

The erotic is a resource within each of us that lies in a deeply female and spiritual plane, firmly rooted in the power of our unexpressed or unrecognized feeling. . . .

Of course, women so empowered are dangerous. So we are taught to separate the erotic from most vital areas of our lives other than sex. . . .

The principal horror of any system which defines the good in terms of profit rather than in terms of human need, or which defines human need to exclusion of the psychic and emotional components of that need--the principal horror of such a system is that it robs our work of its erotic value, its erotic power and life appeal and fulfillment. Such a system reduces work to a travesty of necessities, a duty by which we earn bread or oblivion for ourselves and those we love. But this is tantamount to blinding a painter and then telling her to improve her work, and to enjoy the act of painting. It is not only next to impossible, it is also profoundly cruel.

. . . nce we begin to feel deeply all the aspects of our lives, we begin to demand from ourselves and from our life-pursuits that they feel in accordance with that joy which we know ourselves to be capable of. Our erotic knowledge empowers us, becomes a lens through which we scrutinize all aspects of our existence, forcing us to evaluate those aspects honestly in terms of their relative meaning within our lives. . . .

During World War II, we bought sealed plastic packets of white, uncolored margarine, with a tiny, intense pellet of yellow coloring perched like a topaz just inside the clear skin of the bag. We would leave the margarine out for a while to soften, and then we would pinch the little pellet to break it inside the bag, releasing the rich yellowness into the soft pale mass of margarine. Then taking it carefully between our fingers, we would knead it gently back and forth, over and over, until the color had spread throughout the whole pound bag of margarine, thoroughly coloring it.

I find the erotic such a kernel within myself. When released from its intense and constrained pellet, it flows through and colors my life with a kind of energy that heightens and sensitizes and strengthens all my experience.

Lorde, Audre. "Uses of the Erotic: The erotic as Power." Sister Outsider: Essays and Speeches. Freedom, CA: Crossing Press, 1984. 53-59.



31563, another great book:
Posted by LexM, Wed Aug-31-05 08:36 AM
Women Who Run with the Wolves by Clarissa Pinkola Estes

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0345409876/102-9524477-1344114?v=glance

this was recommended by a friend...i'm barely past the introduction and i'm *already* reeling.

excellent book for women who are starting to feel "different" and can't quite put a finger on when or why....

check out the chapter headings, can get into it where you need to, and go from there.
31564, word up!!!...
Posted by serpentinefire, Wed Aug-31-05 06:21 PM
i've heard GREAT things about it and i've been meaning to pick it up myself...
**************************************

Love...it is just friendship on fire.

--some dude in a lifetime movie
31565, i'm reading it now
Posted by ladyboss08, Fri Sep-16-05 12:20 AM
the first two stories have already altered my life so greatly. it changed the actual path i was on. that book is a whole other post.
31566, yeah i know, right?
Posted by LexM, Fri Sep-16-05 07:55 AM
i've put it down for now, but what i've read so far (i read the intro & the first chapter straight thru, then started skipping around) was sooooo relevant.

reading about all these things is sparking some ideas, tho....

31567, Y'all 'bout
Posted by ya Setshego, Tue Oct-04-05 09:43 AM
2 f*** around, and make me FLY. Or want 2, moreso than I already wanted 2, at least. Back later w/ more...
31568, i'm about to buy this joint for my s.o.
Posted by LexM, Tue Oct-04-05 10:43 AM
and mark a few chapters...

u think i'm playin....

lol
31569, No,
Posted by ya Setshego, Tue Oct-04-05 01:04 PM
I know this is more than a notion. It's just, I am about to spend $91 on CDs & books from amazon as it is, and I don't know if I want to spend more than that to get this book, which so obviously it is time for me to read, or should I cancel some of the other books? I'm already reading the I-Ching, and a book about the Gullah people, and the West African imprint on their planting practices when they were enslaved. I'm ready though. Just like when I was presented, then re-presented w/ Tapping the Power W/in, there was just a point I could not deny it any longer, and had to go ahead and read it, KNOWING FULL WELL that once I did, I would be changed forever, never to look back again. Same thing happened w/ Of Water & the Spirit, which is why I avoided reading it for years. It's time though. You are merely(well, not MERELY, more like ESPECIALLY, as in A Special Way) the catalyst for me in this thang. Reminding me to quit B***S***in' already, and go on & take this thing to the Next Level. I wanna thank U for that. *bows & curtsies*

>>and mark a few chapters...
>
>u think i'm playin....
>
>lol
31570, i feel you
Posted by LexM, Wed Oct-05-05 08:51 AM
i'd never even heard of the book, but it was presented to me by someone and i went to check it out

besides going *directly* to it on the bookshelf, i just knew it was something i needed to get into.

haven't regretted that one bit.

....and i'm glad i could pass some motivation on to you. :)

~~~~
~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~
31571, ^
Posted by LexM, Thu Sep-15-05 08:33 AM
.
31572, just posted this in GD
Posted by LexM, Fri Sep-16-05 09:11 AM
"feminine power: destructive & constructive"

wherever you find traditions that do not deny the feminine divine, you'll most likely find myths/stories/representations of both the destructive/death mother and the nuturing mother/love goddess.

kali vs. shakti is one of the clearest examples of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali

"Skulls, cemeteries, and blood are associated with her worship. She is black and emaciated. Her face is azure, streaked with yellow, her glance is ferocious; her disheveled and bristly hair is usually shown splayed and spread like the tail of a peacock and sometimes braided with green serpents. She wears a long necklace (descending almost to her knees) of human skulls. She may be shown wearing a girdle of severed arms. Children's corpses as earrings (likeliest representing natural infant mortality and childhood mortality from causes such as disease), and cobras as bracelets or garlands add to her terrifying adornments. Her purple lips are often shown streaming with blood; her tusk-like teeth descend over her lower lip; and her tongue lolls out. She is often shown standing on the inert form of her consort, Shiva. She is sometimes accompanied by she-demons. Her four arms hold weapons or the severed head of a demon: these objects symbolize both her creative and her destructive power, for Kali personifies the ambivalence of deity, which manifests itself, according to Indian tradition, in the unceasing cycle of life and death, creation and destruction."

in other words, women have been widely seen/acknowledged as both bearers of life and death. we bear/raise children and see our spouses thru their last illnesses.

when funerals happen, who gathers around to cook and care for the grieving and dress the dead? all around the world, it is overwhelmingly the women.

what she creates (the home, love, babies, etc.), she can also destroy--literally and figuratively.

hell hath no fury....where do you think that *really* comes from?

we have sharp tongues, soft arms, killer looks and killer figures.

and you're trying to tell me that the whole debate about abortion in western society--a society based on groups who were, historically speaking, among the *first* to lose respect for the divine feminine--has nothing to do with misogyny, control, and the idea of repressing the memory/knowledge/use of this power?

gtfohwtbs

call me crazy. i could give a fuck.
this'll drop like a stone anyway.


31573, Good stuff.
Posted by ya Setshego, Wed Oct-05-05 10:49 AM
Did the GD-folks give U any response?
31574, kinda sorta
Posted by LexM, Wed Oct-05-05 12:52 PM
at least it didn't evolve into a fight

but response was pretty slim


~~~~
~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~
31575, Zap Mama-Ancestry in Progress Tour
Posted by ya Setshego, Tue Oct-04-05 01:51 PM
(9/30) ZAP MAMA & PLATINUM PIED PIPERS @ THE BLACK CAT!!!
(9/30) ZAP MAMA & PLATINUM PIED PIPERS CATALYZE THE BLACK CAT, THIS FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 30th.

This Friday, the colossal collective of Zap Mama returns to DC to unleash a show of sensual ferocity. Helmed by the grand dame Marie Daulne, who was born in Zaire, Zap Mama's captivating stage show of music and movement has inspired artists such as D'Angelo, Erykah Badu, and Fertile Ground.

Zap Mama's fifth album, Ancestry in Progress is an experience in global soul. With help from soul siren Erykah Badu (on "Bandy Bandy"), hip-hop royalty Common and Talib Kweli (on "Yelling Away"), and other members of the Roots' Philly massive, Ancestry in Progress further establishes Zap Mama as a main fuse in the continuing musical re-unification of the Pan-African Diaspora.

As such, it is fitting that the Detroit collective of Platinum Pied Pipers will open for the Afropean crew of Zap Mama. The Platinum Pied Pipers have spent years producing groove-laden tracks for Dwele and Slum Village before releasing their debut disc, "Triple P." Get to the show early to check out their opening set that will feature the crowd pleasers -- "Stay With Me" and "Shotgun".

Hosting the evening will be none other than the poetic-sprite of the Blackout Studios-Fertile Ground camp, Olu Butterfly. And on the one and twos, rocking the floor with the four, will be the party-rocka, DJ Underdog.

It All Goes(WENT) Down...

Friday September 30th
@ The Black Cat - 14th & S Streets NW
Doors Open @ 9:30PM/ Show Starts @ 10PM Sharp/ Groovin' All Ages
**********************************************************************
First of all, I need 2 state: HOUSE MUSIC LIVES! oKAY. Now for my review:

I realize that TECHNICALLY, this belongs in The Lesson, but my review is more related to this thread, in terms of what I have to say about it: This show was INCREDIBLE. Literally a Force of Nature w/n itself.
I was thinking the whole time, "Where's Lex M, w/ her Feminine Divine post, when U need her?" Made me proud 2 B a woman. I had never seen this group before live, and lemme state, I've really been missing out. They apparently come 2 my area every year tho', so I need 2 keep my ear 2 the streets, 2 make sure I get 2 see them again. FIRST off, the lead singer, Marie Daulne, I just can't say enough good things about her. She is like, the EPITOME of, everything this thread speaks 2. The group, as a Collective, channelled Goddess Energy, and unleashed it unabashedly on D.C. & it was Beautiful. I've never seen anything like it, not even at a WNBA game, which is another manifestation of the Feminine Divine, through physical activity. This was WAAAY Powerful. After awhile, I went to the back of the club, on a platform, just so I could observe the audience's reaction to what the group was exuding. What struck me the most, was the reaction of the men. Now granted, some of them were gay couples, so they were I guess, tapping into their own InnerGoddess in their own way. Men who were w/ their Queens too, just....seemed entranced, AND enhanced, by the whole vibe. & not in an insecure way, either. Kind of like, in submission to the Great Blak Mother, as Suzar would say. *see Blak Man Is God post for Suzar ref.* I was just, so surprised to see that type of reaction too, particularly from the Brothahs.
Anyhow, back to the group. Their bass player even, is a woman, I believe from Europe. She would give Rhonda Smith a run for her money on ANY day, she was just THAT fonky. Then there is a keyboard player, who is a self-proclaimed Pygmie, who can BLOW, like....like Chaka, like.....Erykah, but then the back-up singers could also, especially the white(European) one, I mean, got D***!
Then, the kicker, was that they did Afrikan House, Hip Hop,dub Reggae, Lingala, Ndombolo, a lil' rock-n-roll, and the Erykah Badu-assisted song that I love w/ a passion: Bandy Bandy. They even did a lil' drum-n-bass mini-set, w/in the context of their Afrikan music, and Reggae set. I REALLY can't stand d-n-b, but couched w/in that Afrikan musical context, I at least came to appreciate it. Their guitar player, was an Afrikan male, so he helped bring the rhythms during the Afrikan music set. I mean, it was just awe-inspiring. They had a male to do the call-and-response on the dub-set, and I just....LOVED it.
They did not sell any CDs either(not that I fault Triple P for pushing product-I was able to cop Dwele's original mix-tape that way). Their table was wholly devoted to women's rights literature: preventing fistulas in Africa, etc. I was really moved, and enlightened by the whole experience. Zap Mama's music, just like the Roots, is too BIG to be confined to vinyl (or titanium). U've got 2 see it LIVE. AT LEAST once.
31576, ^^^^if she comes your way, go check her out
Posted by LexM, Wed Oct-05-05 08:56 AM
i saw her in baltimore (fertile ground opened for her) over the summer.

she's amazing.



~~~~
~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~
31577, Zap mama is the GROUP
Posted by ya Setshego, Wed Oct-05-05 03:31 PM
Marie Dualne is the lead singer. At what venue did they play in Balt.? I am sorry I missed that...