it has been standard practice for western nations to dump their garbage and toxic waste in Africa and in the middle of the Indian Ocean. the tsunami's worst impact was in Somalia for this very reason... as all the crap they dumped in the Indian Ocean saturated the Somali coastline and polluted the region's groundwater resources.

now people are dying en masse from mysterious illnesses and infections caused by these pollutants

any of ya'll ever read that famous internal memo by the World Bank's former chief economist? this is the bullshit we gotta mobilize for. this memo illustrates the calculated lunacy of western geopolitics.

DATE: December 12, 1991
TO: Distribution
FR: Lawrence H. Summers
Subject: GEP

'Dirty' Industries: Just between you and me, shouldn't the World Bank be encouraging MORE migration of the dirty industries to the LDCs ? I can think of three reasons:

1) The measurements of the costs of health impairing pollution depends on the foregone earnings from increased morbidity and mortality. From this point of view a given amount of health impairing pollution should be done in the country with the lowest cost, which will be the country with the lowest wages. I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that.

2) The costs of pollution are likely to be non-linear as the initial increments of pollution probably have very low cost. I've always though that under-populated countries in Africa are vastly UNDER-polluted, their air quality is probably vastly inefficiently low compared to Los Angeles or Mexico City. Only the lamentable facts that so much pollution is generated by non-tradable industries (transport, electrical generation) and that the unit transport costs of solid waste are so high prevent world welfare enhancing trade in air pollution and waste.

3) The demand for a clean environment for aesthetic and health reasons is likely to have very high income elasticity. The concern over an agent that causes a one in a million change in the odds of prostrate cancer is obviously going to be much higher in a country where people survive to get prostrate cancer than in a country where under 5 mortality is is 200 per thousand. Also, much of the concern over industrial atmosphere discharge is about visibility impairing particulates. These discharges may have very little direct health impact. Clearly trade in goods that embody aesthetic pollution concerns could be welfare enhancing. While production is mobile the consumption of pretty air is a non-tradable.

The problem with the arguments against all of these proposals for more pollution in LDCs (intrinsic rights to certain goods, moral reasons, social concerns, lack of adequate markets, etc.) could be turned around and used more or less effectively against every Bank proposal for liberalization.


«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

holy shit that memo is ridiculous! I ain't never liked the world bank, but that is crazy shit. Jesus. Fuck the world bank, seriously. And also about somalia, can't say I'm surprised this has got no airplay, I mean not many people prob know some people died in kenya and somalia in the tsunami! Africa once again is the forgotten continent.

Lawrence Summers initially accepted responsibility for the memo, then said it was "satirical", then blamed it on an aide- saying he didn't write any of it, just signed off on it.

the truth is that this really is the way corporate globalists think. look @ what happened to Mexico's border states post-Nafta. after the memo was leaked, Brazil's then-Secretary of the Environment Jose Lutzenburge wrote the following to Summers:

"Your reasoning is perfectly logical but totally insane... Your thoughts a concrete example of the unbelievable alienation, reductionist thinking, social ruthlessness and the arrogant ignorance of many conventional 'economists' concerning the nature of the world we live in... If the World Bank keeps you as vice president it will lose all credibility. To me it would confirm what I often said... the best thing that could happen would be for the Bank to disappear."

after Mr. Lutzenburger wrote this, he was fired from his position.

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

i have a memo that counteracts that memo!!!

DATE:FEBRUARY 18th, 1989
TO: Dr. Spangler
FROM: Random Guy's Name offa some list somewheres
SUBJECT: All letters/memos you read are fake

Here are some good strategies to trick gullible activists into wasting their time so that they can continue to work their remedial jobs rather than actually give a fuck and become rich billionaires like us!

1) Send out bogus memos! Activists love to claim they obtained some 'secret' info that reveals a deep dark evil plot.

2) Always attack poor nations in these memos. Activists love to feel good about themselves. So much so, they will go to great lengths to talk about it on the internet.

3) Use the words wealth, income and economy a lot. These words drive activists up the wall!!! It doesnt matter what context they are used in, just drop the words at random and it will certainly stir the pot.

google is ur friend.

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

You obviously don't know shit about this memo because its quite famous. But as soon as someone makes up something to discredit people who are critical of the status-quo, here you come with your little co-sign. You folks seriously need an education.

you would rather spend your time bitching than provide proof that the memo is real. gotchya.

and besides, my co sign wasn't about the article as much as it was about the mentallity that he is speaking on...you "activists" are like that. don't lie.

I would prove the validity of the memo if people like yourself would have the decency to approach me in a respectful manner and ask candidly and honestly, "Hey, this seems hard for me to believe, could you possibly show me some sort of link that validates this memo?" But no, instead you and your pro-owners-of-the-world comrade come at the topic with a hostile assumption that anything WE say is fraudulent and untruthful. You and foxesn approach such topics as if you knew something about them that the rest of us don't, yet, if you did you would be able to discredit the validity of -in this case- the memo without me having to prove its truth. Screw you buddy, I have nothing to "prove" to people like you who care more about your ideological chains than about adding to the discussion.

because somebody hurt your feelings?

You are here for no other reason than hostile red-baiting. Look, I am not responsible for your lack of education or intellectual foresight. I don't need to give you anything because your purpose is not to find the truth but to remained chained to your own dellusional misconceptions about people who seek to challenge the status-quo.

i co-signed the mentallity that was being poked fun @ in that particular post. whether or not that "memo" is real is not even what I wanted to debate about, i just wanted to put my little co-sign up and let it be..., for some reason, my simple little "co-sign" got your panties all in a bunch,all this whining and preaching is totally unecessary...

I dont get some of you people, if there is somebody on here who is ignorant and lost and doesn't want to learn (your words) then why not let it go? shit. if anything your constant overly emotional response to a simple "co-sign" proves that posts theory about you so called "activists" more than anything...

Actually the memo by Lawrence Summers is quite a famous one. I think it absolutely pathetic that you can be so ideologically chained that, without any research whatsoever, you exclaim that this is bogus. Why don't you try learning something for once?

you cant because it has no original source. sure you might post links to sites that posted the article but that doesnt make the article fake. see i could write up an article and pass it along as somebody else and get some site to publish it. if its outlandish enough like this one is some other news sites will pick up on it and write a story about it. before you know it people will think somebody actually wrote the article.

.

thats not source material. thats just a few sites posting the article. that doesnt mean the article is real. lol. you kids crack me up with all your jibber jabber these days.

read the posts for a change. this is getting almost as bad as the time you arrogantly argued about Venezuela.

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

you know you cant prove that it is real. don't be mad that i exposed you as a gullible activist.

good lord. you seriously don't read, do you? i go to the University of Texas @ Austin, which has one of the nation's top 10 business programs, and top 5 among public schools. this shit is mentioned in practically every developmental economics course.

take pinko panther's advice and hit up the library archives for reports on this memo. your attitude was what turned me off to even trying to reason this w/ you


«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

I even posted an exam question from a upper level Econ class at the University of Colorado! Econ. profs don't parrot leftist causes, there is more to this memo that fox seems to fear.

Actually Lawrence Summers himself admitted to writing the memo and try to make up some excuse to apologize for it. Its not our fault that you are ignorant.

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

You have to be sarcastic to honestly believe in capitalism as a system that is just...

to which I offer no support...

...I'd happily be a rich sarcastic bastard!

i mean it's not like the idea of a pollution rights market haven't been discussed before...
______________________________

*TWINNING*

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

http://www.whirledbank.org/ourwords/summers.html

For the doubters and naysayers.

"our dream is a world full of poverty"

gimme a break, so you want us to read a REAL memo from a FAKE/SATIRICAL web site!?...I'm gonna start posting news articles from chuckycheese.com...

this clown is the "welfare, poverty, & marriage expert" of the Heritage Foundation.

http://www.heritage.org/About/Staff/RobertRector.cfm


«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

Im reading about it in class right now.

Here are a variety of links on the memo:

*Counter Punch: http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/envronmt/summers.htm

*Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Summers#Controversies

*Left Business Observer: http://www.leftbusinessobserver.com/Summers.html

*Boston Magazine: http://www.bostonmagazine.com/ArticleDisplay.php?id=517&print=yes

Also, The Economist wrote a big article on this in 1992 but since this was pre-internet, the article is not available online. If anyone is interested in the topic for reasons other than red-baiting I'm sure you can find the article archived somewhere at your local library. Peace.

Iteresting exam question from an Economics class at the University of Colorado:

http://www.colorado.edu/Economics/courses/mobarak/4784%20Homework%202%20fall04.pdf

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml%3Fi=20010618&s=bivens20010605

If this story is true and I am becoming increasing convinced then Lutzenburger provides the perfect response;

'After the memo became public in February 1992, Brazil's then-Secretary of the Environment Jose Lutzenburger wrote back to Summers: "Your reasoning is perfectly logical but totally insane... Your thoughts a concrete example of the unbelievable alienation, reductionist thinking, social ruthlessness and the arrogant ignorance of many conventional 'economists' concerning the nature of the world we live in... If the World Bank keeps you as vice president it will lose all credibility. To me it would confirm what I often said... the best thing that could happen would be for the Bank to disappear." Sadly, Mr. Lutzenburger was fired shortly after writing this letter.'

It brings a sick feeling to my stomach.

This is true ya'll, it's not secrete that not only do ships dump toxins just off Somalia, but many fishing companies snatch up all the fish. What do you expect, Somalia has not a government for over a decade, and plus, even it did, it would not have the resources to stop things liek this from happening.

either foxnesn or suave are at this very moment searching the net for some sort of bullshit rebuttal of that memo on some dumb-ass liberal bashing site?

I seriously do not care. but thanks for tossing my name out there for no reason at all...

"Boo, hoo, why are they throwing my name in for no reason? I'm such a victim because I never antagonize anyone or act a fool ever..." You really don't prove as much as you sometimes think you're proving other than the fact of how dense you are.

to...strange...man...who...has...become...obsessed...*dot*

there ya go kid!

but thanks for confirming it.

man seriously. show me where i went into a topic, then totally ignored the topic at hand to respond on how i "feel" about YOU. seriously, go back a few pages or so and show me. i mean you haven't had that great of an impact on my life nor my experience here on okayplayer.com for me to do that...can YOU say the same? *sigh* case rested.

You hypocrite! You came into this topic by essentially co-signing an accusation that all of us on the left are liars who fabricate memos to make a point. Talk about ignoring a topic at hand and responding on how you "feel" about others. The only reason I responded to you is because you and your little boyfriend fox came in here without any interest in learning about the topic at hand but in order to defame the rest of us who are interested. Next time you don't agree, put an argument forward. I think in posts where you have done so, I have argued with you without venom. Its where you jump in acting like a complete dick that I call you on it. When you are a dick, it disrupts the progress of discussion on the topic and that is something our mod, FIREBRAND, should call you on.

>man seriously. show me where i went into a topic, then
>totally ignored the topic at hand to respond on how i "feel"
>about YOU. seriously, go back a few pages or so and show me. i
>mean you haven't had that great of an impact on my life nor my
>experience here on okayplayer.com for me to do that...can YOU
>say the same? *sigh* case rested.

just cause there's a tsunami in the middle of the ocean, doesn't mean the stuff in the middle will get washed shoreward (unless it's solid objects). It's not the same water 100m from the epicentre as it is 100 miles

i think

i wasn't gonna bring it up, but hey....

a wave passing through a body of water isn't actually moving water-- it's a 'wave' of energy making water particles move vertically, but not really far in a lateral direction-- that would be the currents that do that.

and the major currents in the India Ocean-- it's funny, I've been researching this for a novel- run south, down the east coast of Africa, and then circulate eastwards, across the southern half of the ocean-- so any rubbish suspended in the upper layer of water off the east coast of Africa would eventually hit the west coast of Australia.

anything floating on the surface would be pushed westwards by the wind, until it got to 10 degrees north or south of the equator, where the trade winds would push it east again

sorry z, but geography and physics don't back this up...

and in most other terms, Aceh is still more screwed than Somalia by this disaster

edit: check out the behavior of sediments in a tsunami