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Topic subjectHigher Education?? Forget it.....
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=22&topic_id=2871
2871, Higher Education?? Forget it.....
Posted by BMWK, Thu Nov-13-03 04:50 PM
It's insane...I'd rather go to jail and self educate myself like Malcolm and Eldridge....god damn....I aint got this kind of money...

College costs take another leap

Ready? Private schools up 5.7% to almost $27,000; public schools up 9.8%.
October 21, 2003: 2:02 PM EDT
By Jeanne Sahadi, CNN/Money Senior Writer



NEW YORK (CNN/Money) College costs once again have increased far faster than inflation, with tuition at state schools posting the biggest increase in 30 years, the College Board reported Tuesday.



College tuition costs are up, but so is the financial aid. CNNfn's Mary Snow takes a closer look at the college tuition study.


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One bright spot: an increase in the amount of aid students are receiving. Less bright: A significant portion of that aid is in the form of loans.

Students at state schools got hit hardest by the price hikes. The cost of a year at a four-year public university including tuition, fees, room and board -- rose 9.8 percent to $10,636 from $9,689 last year, according to a report by the board, a nonprofit association that runs college programs and services, including the SATs.

That's an especially big jump considering that inflation, as measured by the consumer price index, has been just above 2 percent for the past six months.


Add in other expenses, such as books and transportation, and the total nut for a year at a state school comes to $13,833, up from $12,841 last year.

Tuition alone at state schools rose 13 percent adjusted for inflation, the highest increase in 30 years, the report said.

Increases were more modest but costs remain far higher for private colleges. Costs rose 5.7 percent to $26,854. Include books and other items and the total comes to $29,541, up 6.7 percent.

The biggest cause for the increases at state schools: State appropriations have not kept up with rising costs. State funding typically accounts for more than a third of public schools' funding, according to the board.

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In addition to a relative decline in state appropriations at public schools, there are other reasons costs at all schools have been rising. Faculty compensation is up, primarily because of health-insurance and pension costs. Universities also have spent heavily to keep technologies current both for research and teaching purposes.

Most of all, grant aid is climbing.

"Financial aid is the fastest-growing component of institutional budgets," said Sandy Baum, a consultant to the College Board and one of the authors of its report.

On the bright side, more aid
Indeed, as costs have grown, so has the amount of financial aid students have received when federal, state and institutional funds are combined, according to the College Board. So has the number of students receiving that aid, which can come in the form of loans, grants, work study and tax credits.


Last year the latest for which aid data are available -- about 60 percent of undergraduates received some form of aid, according to a second College Board report, Trends in Student Aid.

Of those, nearly half received grant money which, unlike a loan, doesn't need to be repaid and effectively reduces the price paid for college.

On an inflation-adjusted basis, from the 1992-93 academic year through the end of the 2002-03 school year, grant aid per full-time student rose 67 percent and loan aid rose 147 percent. Tuition during the same period, meanwhile, rose 39 percent at private colleges and 38 percent at public universities.

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Total aid to an eligible full-time student averaged $9,100 last year, with $3,600 of that in grants.

Grant aid per full-time student rose 9 percent. For aid-eligible students at four-year public schools, the average student received $2,400 in grants. A student at a four-year private school received an average of $7,300.

Still, signs of stress
While total aid has increased, the share of grants as a percentage of total aid has declined. In 1982, grants made up more than 50 percent of all aid. Last year, they constituted just 40 percent.

The neediest students are getting a smaller piece of the grant pie, too. According to Baum, less of the new grant money is earmarked for need-based recipients and more is set aside for merit-based awards which tend to go disproportionately to middle- and upper-income students.

Since loans make up a large portion of many students' financial aid packages and those aid packages have grown, so has the debt burden students carry into their adult lives upon graduation. Since 1997, the median in undergraduate student loan debt has risen 74 percent to $16,500, according to Nellie Mae's 2002 National Student Loan Survey.

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And there are signs more of the burden may be borne by students as their parents struggle to save.

Some parents of young children who are trying to ward off tuition hikes in the years to come have opted to contribute to pre-paid tuition plans, which allow you to buy tuition credits at today's prices and bank them for the day years hence when your child goes to college.

But some of these plans are experiencing the strains of college costs. Several states recently suspended enrollment in their pre-paid tuition plans since the cost of tuition is rising faster than the plans' investment earnings.

And parents' savings, at least judging from a recent survey by the Investment Company Institute, can't keep up with the rising costs. The ICI found that of all parents saving for college, those with children between the ages of 11 and 15 had saved a median of only $15,000.


--*Disclaimer






"This afternoon I'm talking shit to my alarm clock, cause I gotta face this world of Capitalistic onslaught"...
2872, Get in where you fit in.............
Posted by MisterGrump, Thu Nov-13-03 05:13 PM
[]
2873, RE: Get in where you fit in.............
Posted by mariposanegra, Thu Nov-13-03 05:43 PM
Well if you ain't got that kinda money, you need to vote for Howard Dean. His new education plan is just for your situation.

http://www.blacksfordean.com/newslog/archives/00000050.html
2874, You need to quit this shit.
Posted by deejboram, Fri Nov-14-03 12:15 AM
Howard Dean & his college aid plan ain't the great white hope!
2875, RE: Get in where you fit in.............
Posted by BMWK, Thu Nov-13-03 05:53 PM
You either got your degree when college wasn't this expensive or you don't have one and just speak out of your ass....either way...the hell with you...

"This afternoon I'm talking shit to my alarm clock, cause I gotta face this world of Capitalistic onslaught"...
2876, College has never been cheap
Posted by Cocobrotha2, Thu Nov-13-03 06:18 PM
The only reason more and more people go is that more financing is available and people are more willing to go into debt for an education. It's like housing... you think it's expensive now? just wait another 5 years....
2877, It just dawned on me....
Posted by BMWK, Thu Nov-13-03 06:47 PM
All our money was sent to IraQ!!! so this problem reverts all the way back to great ol BUsh....once again...he does his damage...

"This afternoon I'm talking shit to my alarm clock, cause I gotta face this world of Capitalistic onslaught"...
2878, RE: um...
Posted by ConcreteCharlie, Thu Nov-13-03 06:55 PM
i just finished my degree but two months ago and i can tell you that its a better option than jail for damn sure. and i can also tell you that considering that my family has a pretty low household income and shit for assets coming off of a bankruptcy a few years back that you can get your shit paid for, take loans and live decent there too.

my man is a clerk for a district court judge in LA, he says "take the loans, the higher up you go the more likely you'll be able to pay them back"

education isnt much of an indicator for future income compared to already being rich but its not bad and better than jail time
2879, Look here, ya Big Dummy
Posted by MisterGrump, Fri Nov-14-03 01:56 PM
I'm getting my degree right now. Free of charge. I hustled to find the best price to get a degree. Maybe you're too late in seeing the light of "doing good in high school to reap the benefits of a decreased cost of higher education", or what the fuck ever it is. I didn't disagree with you at all. Shit is expensive nowadays. However, like somebody said down below, the shit IS an investment. More employers hire folks with college degrees than with prison records.

Shit like what you posted don't faze me. It just makes me shake my head and laugh that you're not my child all speaking this stupid ass, uninformed bullshit.........
2880, It's an investment................
Posted by Zorasmoon, Thu Nov-13-03 07:00 PM
it never ceases to amaze me how folks will
spend all kind of money on clothes, gym shoes, HOUSES
& CARS...but when it comes to school, everybody's broke..


There is money out there...scholarships that go unclaimed.
MOST actually go untapped. And yes, you will work for the
money. Scholarship hunting is a part-time job in and of
itself.

No excuses.


<~~~~~~~Go-Go Yubari is gangsta!!!
.
.




~~~~~~OKP SIGS OF THE MONTH~~~~~~~

If you're out there you're vulnerable. People prefer to disappear in life to repress their personality. That's not living. It's dying. I see them all over the place, the walking dead. --Grace Jones

Religion is like prison, keep people locked up in different divisions.
Some of them promise you heaven,
but I see a lot of bullshit ism schism,
materialism in the form of spiritually, slave mentality, escape reality....--Dead Prez on that



*****************************

Recommended reading:

******Parable of the Sower- by Octavia Butler*******
Story about a hyper-empath who becomes the founder of a humanist cult created to transform the destiny of humankind

******The spirit of Terrorism- Jean Baudrillard*******
A MUST read for every thinking being
online copy @
http://awake.sparklehouse.com/downloads/papers/baud_terr.html

2881, RE: It's an investment................
Posted by BMWK, Thu Nov-13-03 07:29 PM
investment??? That all depends....people talk about grants and financial aid and scholarships like they are so easy to get and like they are accessible to any and everybody...there are conditions to all that stuff....and if you didn't read the story they're cutting down on grants and financial aid...and although you got a point about how people spend money on cars and houses but not school....you're right...but thats a bit of a overgeneralization...because I'm not one of those people I honestly don't have the kind of money it requires to attend college...(let me say any college besides a JC)...plus with a degree there is no security...I'm glad for ya boy getting a big break and his degree paying off but that aint the case with EVERYBODY...people get brainwashed into thinking college is the solution to all your problems in AMerica....it'll promise you a good job, good money and you ride off in the sunset...thats a bullshit story...I know people with financial aid and grants and its still not enough...they got differences to pay that are 4 digits...the whole case and point meaning...College should not be this expensive period. yeah its a investment and yes you may succeed with a college degree but I think its 50/50 for people that succeed and fail with a degree and for that kind of money everybody should be promised SOMETHING...but thats not reality...there are way too many people I know that are laid off about now...everything really goes back to our great government and Bush...but I'm sick of people thinking College is this guarenteed can't lose decision that you have to make...cause the truth is...its not...your chances are just as good in succeeding by educating yourself and knowing the right people...without spending all that money you don't have and can't afford to pay back...


"This afternoon I'm talking shit to my alarm clock, cause I gotta face this world of Capitalistic onslaught"...
2882, RE: It's an investment................
Posted by afrikankween52, Fri Nov-14-03 05:45 AM
Have you ever filled out a FASFA form. Unless your folks are making money out the ass, the grants will come rolling in.

In the "great" state of florida, if you qualify for a full pell grant, florida matches that.

There are no excuses for folks to not go to school. If my best friend who has 5 sisters and brothers and her momma makes all of 15K a year ......is now working on her masters degree......no one has a damn excuse.


It also seems as though folks forgot about actually WORKING to pay for their tutition. Duh. Alot of jobs now offer tuition reimbursement programs as well.

Excuses are tools of incompetence which leads to monuments of nothingness, those who specialize in them, seldom do well at anything.
2883, RE: It's an investment................
Posted by afrikankween52, Fri Nov-14-03 05:47 AM
The whole degree aint worth a damn argument usually comes from someone who doesnt have one or cant get one.


2884, co-to-the-mutha-sign
Posted by Zorasmoon, Fri Nov-14-03 01:27 PM
exactly.

And... Hey, how you been, Kween?

Are you still "cool" ;-)


<~~~~~~~Go-Go Yubari is gangsta!!!
.
.




~~~~~~OKP SIGS OF THE MONTH~~~~~~~

If you're out there you're vulnerable. People prefer to disappear in life to repress their personality. That's not living. It's dying. I see them all over the place, the walking dead. --Grace Jones

Religion is like prison, keep people locked up in different divisions.
Some of them promise you heaven,
but I see a lot of bullshit ism schism,
materialism in the form of spiritually, slave mentality, escape reality....--Dead Prez on that



*****************************

Recommended reading:

******Parable of the Sower- by Octavia Butler*******
Story about a hyper-empath who becomes the founder of a humanist cult created to transform the destiny of humankind

******The spirit of Terrorism- Jean Baudrillard*******
A MUST read for every thinking being
online copy @
http://awake.sparklehouse.com/downloads/papers/baud_terr.html

2885, listen it's not only about the money
Posted by les_fleurs, Fri Nov-14-03 06:01 AM
i'm sorry education is a form of investment. If you're able to get the grant or the scholarship cances are you'll get a decent job blah blah.
Now that doesn't seem to work for some people. why? you got to invest in yourself as a person as well. It's crazy how many students don't really care about improving their cv. Having a degree is NOT ENOUGH TO GET YOURSELF A JOB!!! do some other stuff: learn languages, do some activism, get a part time work (well most of us don't have the choice for that), participate in whatever you can. eh it's like that these days...
more and more employers don't care about degrees anymore because we all get out from uni with the same education. they need other facts which show that you're not just any dude applying for the job. you gotta show them that you're special. but at the end you still need the degree because if you don't you're not good enough for the job
2886, WTF was your point?
Posted by Zorasmoon, Fri Nov-14-03 01:26 PM
Muthafucka ain't even FINISHED school yet. That other shit comes later. ...preaching to the choir...



<~~~~~~~Go-Go Yubari is gangsta!!!
.
.




~~~~~~OKP SIGS OF THE MONTH~~~~~~~

If you're out there you're vulnerable. People prefer to disappear in life to repress their personality. That's not living. It's dying. I see them all over the place, the walking dead. --Grace Jones

Religion is like prison, keep people locked up in different divisions.
Some of them promise you heaven,
but I see a lot of bullshit ism schism,
materialism in the form of spiritually, slave mentality, escape reality....--Dead Prez on that



*****************************

Recommended reading:

******Parable of the Sower- by Octavia Butler*******
Story about a hyper-empath who becomes the founder of a humanist cult created to transform the destiny of humankind

******The spirit of Terrorism- Jean Baudrillard*******
A MUST read for every thinking being
online copy @
http://awake.sparklehouse.com/downloads/papers/baud_terr.html

2887, i'm not done with uni either
Posted by les_fleurs, Fri Nov-14-03 02:58 PM
but the point is: this is the kind of shit you need to know from the start. you should balance things that's all ... the degree will get you somewhere ifyou put a personal effort into it. i'm not trying to preach ... sorry
2888, RE: listen it's not only about the money
Posted by BMWK, Sat Nov-15-03 11:11 AM
ok, so basically it just takes common sense to make it in society...and a degree is just extra....

"This afternoon I'm talking shit to my alarm clock, cause I gotta face this world of Capitalistic onslaught"...
2889, RE: It's an investment................
Posted by ConcreteCharlie, Fri Nov-14-03 06:21 AM
well, you are right on a couple things; it's no guarantee and in fact if you are not wealthy to begin with studies have shown working straight out of high school is more lucrative. but those numbers are skewed because they assume you can get a decent job and save a dime, two things that are increasingly difficult; rapidly so in the last few years with the disappearance of American manufacturing, agricultural and industrial jobs.

that it's 50/50 that people "fail" with a degree is a hell of a statement to make. Where does 50/50 come from and what is "failing?" I know plenty of reasonably wealthy people without college degrees, but most of them send their kids to college, so it can't be roses and saffron making it without one. Not to mention the fact that I didnt go to college to get rich at all myself and considered it only an investment in an education and a great time. Between the lack of certainty and the wealth of other benefits from going to school, if you're going to get paid you are going for the wrong reason. You should work and save your money like the survey says if that is what you are after because there are no $80K/year jobs to start even for computer engineers like there were a few years back.

As for loans, grants and scholarship, a TON of money (I knew the figure in 2000 when I was applying; cant recall now) goes unclaimed. As someone already mentioned, if your parents really don't have the money, even if they have a heavy income with heavy debts, you can get at a bare minimum loans to cover everything and even grants. In Cali they give more loans and less grants as you move up; in part because of changing state budgets but also because they figure you are more able to pay them back and you move closer to a degree (damn!). But if you hustle you can do what I did and make it through school in 3 years or go to a JC if you can afford that more easily and do two years there(not sure how that works out with fin aid). But with the the 3 year deal, they paid for pretty much my entire first year in grants plus I got a couple of little bs scholarships I sought out (they amounted to maybe $1000); over half of my second year was paid for in grants (rest in loans) and my third year was about 50/50. Summer school has reduced fees, if you wanna push through you will have to go but it also has fin aid available almost everywhere from a separate form and your annual FAFSA. I was turning down loans by the time I got deeper into my career and they are cool about paying them back. Almost always you dont have to start repaying the bulk of them until you are out of school and they dont carry credit card interest rates or anything.

Anyway, sure education is going up but it's always been expensive and there are now more ways to circumvent the expense; when my dad was in school in the 60s they paid for everything pretty much and it was more exclusive in terms of wealth who went to college. I think you may see some different things happen if a dem gets elected president but who knows? Education always takes a backseat to war, it's terrible but it's always true; I'd like to see mufuckas hold a bake sale to build an aircraft carrier.

Today, people are willing to go into debt for anything, they finance a pack of tic tacs at ridiculous interest. Housing seems to have really shot upwards and that is a problem for students. The primary difference between now and when my dad was in school is the cost of living; rents, greek dues, bills and so on are all proportionately and substantially higher. But they take this into account on your FAFSA, they send you a check for what was over your fees often to cover your living expenses at least in part (during the year it usually covers it, Summertime no).

Anyway, ask people who have done it and, like everyone is saying here, they'll tell you it doesnt kill you financially nor is it not worth the experience...
2890, RE: It's an investment................
Posted by BMWK, Sat Nov-15-03 11:20 AM
ya know...you're right...I think Cali is the worst and the most expensive and the hardest state to get the most financial assistance in...because all these other people speak down on my argument as if I'm dumb...but maybe its because they don't live in Cali so things are different for whatever state they come from...I mean c'mon...our governor has a movie that just came out on DVD...this state is simply a joke...Every state has different requirements for college students....


"This afternoon I'm talking shit to my alarm clock, cause I gotta face this world of Capitalistic onslaught"...
2891, You don't read!!!
Posted by deejboram, Sun Nov-16-03 01:06 AM
>I think Cali is the worst and the
>most expensive and the hardest state to get the most
>financial assistance in...because all these other people
>speak down on my argument as if I'm dumb...but maybe its
>because they don't live in Cali so things are different for
>whatever state they come from...


Did you read any of the posts where people (myself included) ref'd schools in California (not Baja Cali!) such as:
UCLA
UC Berkeley
Stanford
Cal Tech
San Francisco State
Cal State - Dominguez Hills

Furthermore, I'm from Cali spent 2 semesters in it's public college system and still very abreast on the tuition situation there as I'm considering transfering to UCLA, my girl is thinking about enrolling at UC Berkeley, and I have neice that's will be entering college (maybe in Cali) in two years.

Bottom line is, you gotta do some research before you start gripping about shit or you'll just sound like a fool.
2892, that's why you try to get scholarships/fellowships
Posted by Allah, Thu Nov-13-03 08:41 PM
that way, they can keep people in school who are not
likely to drop out, thus using money more efficiently, and
allow the other rich people to reinvest back into academia.
2893, Quit yer whining!
Posted by deejboram, Fri Nov-14-03 05:57 AM
It's too easy for those that need $$$ for college to get it.
1) FIll out a FAFSA. This will tell you how much you really need it. If your folks are loaded and want to penny-pinch you, then that's on you. Make it work!

2) There are LOADS of NG grants/schollys out there for folks. Stop being lazy and put a pen to paper or your fingers to some keys and write a few essays. You ARE in college aren't you?

Then who said you *had* to go to a PRIVATE school with their sky high prices? There are loads of state schools under $5,000 per year. And although these may not have tuitions that low they have STELLAR academic records:

Chapel Hill
U of Michigan
U of California (LA, Berkely, SD)
Alabama
U of Maryland
U of Texas

Sounds to me like some folks don't want to try.

Yeah so what some of your friends maxed out their finaid and still owe $10ks in tution per year. I know this is the case at many *prestigious* schools (Ivys, Duke, George Washington, MIT, Stanford, the list goes on) I'm sure if they got accepted to them schools they could've got accepted to CHEAPER schools as well and they should've planned the shit out before they got on campus.

In life,
we have to make decisions.
2894, No way
Posted by dba_BAD, Fri Nov-14-03 11:47 PM
You gotta fight with them FAFSa and government heads to get them to give you what you deserve. If I live in the bay, and make 30 Gs a year, how am I supposed to support my wife and fam while shelling out 10gs a year (or whatever) on school tuition for one kid? It ain't gon happen, let me tell you. And unless you earning third-world wages, the FAFSA ppl aren't trynna give you shit.
2895, Yes way.
Posted by deejboram, Sat Nov-15-03 12:27 AM
If I'm not mistaken the way our system is setup now is for YOU to put YOUR children through school, correct? So FAFSA is saying you should do as such but if you need assistance htey will give it to your relative to your income. If you guys are a family of three on 30K per annum then I don't see why they didn't want to give you any money.

Hold up!!!

You live in the SF Bay?
Oakland?
Berkeley?

Shit, then your kid could go to SF State or Dominguez Hills or somethin for CHEAP!
And you say you still gotta pay 10K per year or some shit like that for tuition?
This means your not going to a state school.
If your kid is trying to foot the bills at Stanford or Cal Tech then that's on yall.
Nobody said you gotta go to one of them ritzy private schools.
Shit calculus is calculus no matter where you go!

But I know for 10K you can pay for TWO YEARS of tuition & room/board at Alabama A&M or Alabama State universities. And this is including out-of-state fees.


2896, RE: Yes way.
Posted by ConcreteCharlie, Sat Nov-15-03 07:12 AM
yeah, they take into account your living expenses and debts as well

my friend lives down in san diego, north county, his dad makes between 150K-200K a year but has mad payments to the IRS, alimony and so on; dude gets almost all his shit in loans at least.

My dad only makes about 30K/yr and they were throwing down all types of shit; some of it was merit based but not much and I dont even live in the expensive-ass bay area. Dee is right, and if your kid has decent grades CS-Dom. Hills would bend over backwards to take her/him.

Even at Stanford and Cal Tech, if you have the grades and they accept you they sometimes offer even greater financial aid. It is need-based so if the tuition alone exceeds your income, they will help you out a lot. Those places have money coming out their ass, huge endowments and shit, plus all that tuition from rich ass mufuckas that pay the full ticket. When I was looking at Stanford I would have had to foot about $8k/yr on the bill based on income alone and probably less in the end; though it was moot because I didnt get in anyway!
2897, RE: No way
Posted by afrikankween52, Sat Nov-15-03 05:32 AM
yeah you need to go down to the financial aid office or have your child do it. there are plenty forms for adjustments and special circumstances. its alot of folks that just give up once they see their SAR report. dont stop at that report, it is not the final say.
2898, after teaching myself, my will diploma say Harverd.
Posted by k_orr, Fri Nov-14-03 02:25 PM

2899, Like a license to drive...
Posted by Nettrice, Fri Nov-14-03 07:43 PM
That's what my mentor told me when I was 16. I likened it to getting a free pass into the playground because I was determined to get a merit scholarship...full tuition scholarship because my parents announced that they would not support me at all if I went to college, so I busted my ass to keep my grades up and create a competitive (art and computer graphics) portfolio. I schlepped to every local portfolio day and my teacher took me to colleges in three different states.

It was important for me to get my ticket to ride or fly and college was the choice I took and I never regretted living on my own, hundreds of miles away from home and subsisting on scholarships and loans. It was an investment in myself and I had to cut loose from my parents who were still trying to claim me on their tax forms.

So where did this get me? Well, I feel like I have real credentials and by the time I was 30 I was teaching my own college classes (recent adjunct faculty). People seek me out not only because of the degrees but the knowlege I've gained. Employers use the degree, as well as experience, as the prerequisites to positions with upward mobility. Of course, I could have sought success as an artist without college but that was much riskier.
2900, College tuition is a fucking joke
Posted by dba_BAD, Fri Nov-14-03 11:37 PM
Like, how I'mma gonna pay 100,000 to go through 4 years of some shit that I don't even wanna do just to get this little piece of paper?

I can't stand it. Fuck it. I can't believe I'm one of em.
2901, Only the strong survive...yet only the Great excel!!!
Posted by deejboram, Sat Nov-15-03 12:31 AM
And both are very distinguishable.
2902, RE: College tuition is a fucking joke
Posted by ConcreteCharlie, Sat Nov-15-03 07:05 AM
tough day in class?

well, you are one of em, right? statement reeks of a bit of hypocrisy to me then...
2903, Going up 94% at SFSU next semester
Posted by Eli_B, Sun Nov-16-03 08:26 AM
I graduated from San Francisco State Univ. about a year and a half ago. Never mind that they're not admitting transfer students or students going back for a second Bachelor's degree (myself included), because of the budget deficit, because I don't know if I'd be able to afford tuition next semester because it's being doubled!