He said it on LWFC and I posted about how it was offensive.
I got no support. No one gave a shit.

I forgot about it and continued to have love for Common, and now I'm listening to Corners, loving it, getting excited as Hell, until I hear "Ay-rabs serving burgers"...

I feel like I got shot in back.
What the fuck am I supposed to do.
My favorite artist spitting anti-arab slurs and stereotypical shit.

It's in the beginning of the 3rd verse.

cats say ay-rab and moozlim. why is a particular pronunciation of "arab" offensive?

'Ay-rab' is the slur that's used to shit on Arabs.

It's not just an alternative pronounciation.

I realize that some people just don't realize that. And I HOPE that's the case with Common. That's why I continued to listen to him after he said it on 6th sense. But I thought he must be aware by now, which is why it fuckin hurt to hear it on Corners.

is there a historical context for why it's a slur? i'm not convinced it's a slur, other than your say-so.

If a white dude in Detroit walks up to ANY Arab and says "Ay-rab", he'll get fucked up.
Try it if you're not convinced.

I don't know when or why people started using it. But that's the way it is.

really? that's extra. it's a midwestern thing, tho. we all say it, and not to be offensive, but cuz we country.

Detroit is midwest. Detroit is extra-country.

But you can't say that shit in Detroit.

why does it have to be a white dude?

http://www.audioscrobbler.com/user/whitenotion/

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Khalil is Arabic and finds that pronounciation of Arab offensive, isn't he enough of an authority on the matter?

that perhaps noone broght it to his attention? I can understand how terminology can be sensitive, and while it could have been obvious I know I aint know that shit...
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I dont think it matters why its offensive, it just is. Its just the same when people call me a "Messican." Naw, fuck that, I am a "MEX-I-CAN." People are what they are and dont like being described otherwise, simple as that.

I think the whole "ay-rab" thing may have a lot to do with this popular, but racist ass song called "Ahab the Ay-rab." Its basically some ol Pat Boone sounding muthafucker talking shit about this brown guy with a turban flying on his magic carpet or something, terrible shit. The song got a lot of burn on bubble gum oldies stations in months following 9/11.

and on some level, i agree. why it take 99 more posts for someone to say this stuff?

Yo, I feel you on that.
I think it's just something that a lot of cats don't know is offensive. It just kind of gets thrown around, in the same way that people throw around faggot, which got Common in trouble before.
I don't think Com is racist towards middle-easterners or Muslims of any type, that's just the language he knows.
I'm not condoning it, just trying to keep it in perspective.



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doesn't com practice islam?


in chicago, an ay-rab is like a burger joint right?

that's just a common way that the word "Arab" is pronounced in Chicago.

I doubt he ment any disrespect
------------------------------

“He may be friendly, but he's not your friend." - Malcolm X

I know Chicago has its own slang but we can't just accept shit that's said when its offensive everywhere else.

People need to understand that its disrespectful and can be interpreted as racist.

Can we get to Common somehow and just let him know if he doesn't know?

>I know Chicago has its own slang but we can't just accept
>shit that's said when its offensive everywhere else.

I don't know about it being offensive everywhere else, so far you're the only one on this board that thinks so.

>Can we get to Common somehow and just let him know if he
>doesn't know?

You're on your own on that one. Maybe posts this in Artist, someone there might be able to get the info to him.
------------------------------

“He may be friendly, but he's not your friend." - Malcolm X

igotsoul2 co-signed.

I'm sure there'll be others.

If not than we need to start letting people know because its reality.

I had no idea it offended some people, I won't say it anymore.

As to your original post, I seriously doubt Common knew it was offensive.
------------------------------

“He may be friendly, but he's not your friend." - Malcolm X

Thank you son. I appreciate the genuine dialogue and the understanding.

You might be being a little sensitive. Like sungod says in this area of the country that is how almost everyone pronunces the word. This is news to me(ay-rab being offensive) Is it like saying "nigger"? Or is at that you just don't like the word being pronounced that way? Because we have been saying that way since I was a kid.

It is like saying "N...", ofcourse without as deep a history and I would never compare the degree of discrimination through the respective usages over time, but I don't think I'm being over-sensitive. The shit is offensive.

I guess that is what I'm trying to get at. Not that your feelings should take a back seat. But what makes it offensive. The only people I've ever heard even say it that way are cats from the "hood". I really thought it was just a hood thing. Where did the derogatory term originate? I really would like to know because, I have a good relationship with an Arab family in my neighborhood and would never want to offend them in any kind of way.

Between "slang" and "accent". How can you hold someone's accent against them? How do you have the time to be offended by that? You, he and everyone else grew up SOMEWHERE, and it a product of their environment. He grew up with "ay-rabs" servin' burgers from behind bullet proof windows (it's a good spot too by the way, the chicken and fries is the shit). It just happens to be how he pronounces the word "arab".

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thats just how alot of us say the shit.

pronunciation, I didn't know it was considered a "slur"...

ay-rab is definitely an offensive slur. you can't attribute that shit to linguistic difficulties, its not like pronouncing the "kha" in khalil.

ignorance doesn't excuse it.

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how many times have u heard one of them redneck white boys say "ay-rab"...they dont mean nuthen by it its just how they say it...this is rediculous...

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i remember catchin' a lot of misguided "pro-black" folx thinkin' its cool to say "ay-rab", and i think that's the case w/ common

he's not a southern redneck that came up in an isolated environment.

you are a "special" dude man. why not try dialect? and like our moderator said, there are black folks down here who are country as hell and only how to pronounce it "arab"...yall too sensitive man. WAY too sensitive...

learn to read


«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

like some southern redneck. the south isn't an isolated environment...its called southern dialect. but i notice you didnt address that because (once again) you really can't argue against that fact.

did i SAY the south is an isolated environment?

R.E.A.D.

your wasted mind is a terrible thing.

"he's not a southern redneck that came up in an isolated environment."

No message

im not about to sit up here and play your little games any more, we went through this with that silly as avitar of yours when u said u dont believe bush is hitler, now u want to play again?

your sentence speaks for itself. you want to play this little game so that it takes attention away from the point I was making: people pronounce arab "ay-rab" depending on what part of the country they are from. it has nothing to do with being racist or disrespectful, you know this but instead of admitting it or admitting that your argument is flawed/wrong, you resort back to your usual cookies n milk insults.

and tone those emotions down while u are @ it.

you specialize in making un-thought out, off the wall remarks and unsubstantiated accusations. instead of asking "hey did you mean to say the south is an isolated environment?" you go and assume that's what i meant when 95% of functionally literate folks would draw no such conclusion from what i wrote above

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

you stay dodging topics so that you can attack the person typing away behind the keybored...tsk tsk...sad.

wow.

this is sad.

A) your sentence "he's not a southern redneck that came up in an isolated environment." speaks for itself.

B) you have totally ignored my point and the points others have made on here (that dialect plays a part in the pronouncing of ay-rab)

C) that you are doing your usual dance routine of "you aint..", "you are a", "your brain is...", "you can't argue.." instead of acknowledging a point especially when u can IGNORE the person who u feel made a dumbass comment. you've done this is previous debates and you are doing it now. im not the one for your games.

*cue more childish insults whilst not addressing my points*

No message

No message

i didn't say anything about how people talk in the south, in chicago, or anywhere else. why are you so desperately trying to act like you "made a point"?

its like i can sit here talking about apples... and you be on some "hah!! see i told you tomatos are red!!!!"

dogg GTFOH. you done.

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

No message

First and foremost, "ay-rab" is an incorrect pronunciation of "arab", like "eye-talians". However, I don't disagree with anyone who finds it offensive because it is an incorrect pronunication associated with Americans and thus associated with American discourse on Arabs, and it is linked in this way to a disrespect, dislike, and distrust of Arabs. Take, for example, the person who knows good and well how to pronounce the word right but uses "ay-rab" for effect.

On Common using it: first and foremost, I think Common is trying to represent a certain location (the ghettos of Chicago) through certain eyes (black residents of these parts). His usage of the term can therefore be linked to the common usage of the term by those whose viewpoint he is offering.

QUESTION: Since, on my account, replacing "ay-rab" in the song with "arab" would have more cosmopolitan implications and be less provincial (in terms of reppin a certain vision of the world), is it possible that making such a change would in a way compromise the aim of the song?

A large part of the issue here is whether Common is (knowingly or unknowingly) denigrating Arabs. I would suggest that some of the distrust I referred to IS present here, because of the common issue in black neighbourhoods of other peoples' economic benefit at black folks' expense. I do not think Common included the line on some "We are the world" stuff (i.e., to represent diversity in the ghetto) though I think it would also be going too far to think of the line as vicious or hateful (i.e., calling for Arabs to "get their dirty asses out of the hood"). In fact, the song as a whole aims to be descriptive rather than judgmental, giving you a feeling of resignation as far as Arabs making that money offa black folks eating food that Common as a vegetarian wouldn't.

If the word "ay-rab" comes out of my mouth, you can be sure I'm sarcastically making fun of American ignorance and/or racism. Is this true for Common, in terms of daily speech? I don't know. But hopefully I've provoked some thought regarding the word's place in the song...

he didn't do it to preserve his "linguistic connection" to the ghettos... shit look @ Electric Circus.

nuff sed.

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

What I take your subject line to suggest is that the disrespect inherent in the pronunciation is not excused by the task of trying to represent how a wide variety of "everyday people" talk. That's fine (tho I'm interested to hear other opinions)... this however:

>he didn't do it to preserve his "linguistic connection" to
>the ghettos... shit look @ Electric Circus.

is either a disagreement with or misunderstanding of my reading of the song. You take him to be tryna front like he's hood (which sorta sounds like glorification), while I take him to be trying to offer the hood's perspective without intending to glorify it.

times as well as eye-talians and even JAR-maicans. I just like to have fun with that ish, but i never knew that someone could over hear it and be offended.

had I known I would have rethought my wording.

wow.

who knew?

*shrugs*
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i mean, if they find it offensive, fine.

but like you, i liken A-rab to Eye-talian, just using the long vowel at the start of the word, instead of the conventional pronunciation. most definitely, both are country pronunciations, and therefore someone might associate usage of the term w/ignorance and/or prejudice. but to me, if anything, it would be akin to an old white person calling me a "colored man." bizarre, and incorrect, but not really offensive. A-rab isn't a term that has ever been used by an oppressor group to dehumanize middle eastern folks, so i don't get what baggage is attached to it.

I agree. I didn't think it was a "derogatory" expression.

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

>but to me, if anything,
>it would be akin to an old white person calling me a "colored
>man." bizarre, and incorrect, but not really offensive.

I can understand why you wouldn't be offended, but you would think it weird that another black person might associate a white person's use of the word "coloured" with white racism?

>A-rab isn't a term that has ever been used by an oppressor group to
>dehumanize middle eastern folks, so i don't get what baggage
>is attached to it.

Um, now that's just incorrect. White people talk disparagingly about a-rabs, so Arabs are offended - why should this be strange to you?

you of all people i wouldn't expect to change people's words. what i am saying is...there is "baggage" associated with "nigger," or "kike," or "chink," or "redskin," for that matter, and i haven't been shown that "A-rab" carries the type of baggage those words do. so to term what is merely an alternative pronunciation offensive does strike me as out of the ordinary.

and would i be surprised if someone associated "colored" with white racism? dude, i know you ain't been here that long :) but no, i don't really see any black americans getting up-in-arms about someone saying "colored," other than to pointedly note that is not what we call ourselves. and i can understand that aspect of indignance when someone says "A-rab." but offensive? no, i can't really empathize.

edit: one more thing. black AND white people say "A-rab," and we DON'T just use it when saying "disparaging" things about middle eastern folks. you glided over everything else i said.

Let me know where I changed your words, cuz of course I didn't mean to.

>you of all people i wouldn't expect to change people's words.
>what i am saying is...there is "baggage" associated with
>"nigger," or "kike," or "chink," or "redskin," for that
>matter, and i haven't been shown that "A-rab" carries the type
>of baggage those words do. so to term what is merely an
>alternative pronunciation offensive does strike me as out of
>the ordinary.

I'm not sure what would prove it to you other than the testimony of Arabs... assuming the original poster is one, there's a testimony, and you could ask other Arabs to find out if this is something common. To me, it seems clear that when people hear "ay-rab", they associate it with the rampant stereotyping that is part of dominant American perceptions of Arabs.

>and would i be surprised if someone associated "colored" with
>white racism? dude, i know you ain't been here that long :)
>but no, i don't really see any black americans getting
>up-in-arms about someone saying "colored," other than to
>pointedly note that is not what we call ourselves. and i can
>understand that aspect of indignance when someone says
>"A-rab." but offensive? no, i can't really empathize.

Well, as I said, I understand why you wouldn't get upset. Hearing it for me evokes "the good old days", and I would expect that many black folks feel this way.

>edit: one more thing. black AND white people say "A-rab," and
>we DON'T just use it when saying "disparaging" things about
>middle eastern folks. you glided over everything else i said.

Naw man, I didn't have to glide anywhere cuz you made a categorical claim to which I provided a counterexample. Black people and non-disparaging comments were irrelevant.

it's not like, now that i know they find it offensive, i'ma still go around saying it just cuz i don't get why it's offensive. but i STILL don't get why it's offensive, beyond "it just is." or it evokes images of the "ugly american." to me, that's hogwash.

them muthafuckas roll deep and will whoop yo ass for some shit like that.




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Chuck D: "I KNOW we're not done..."

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take a break doggie.

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

http://profiles.myspace.com/users/10450673

Chris Defendorf: "We're not done!" (sampling KRS-ONE & PUBLIC ENEMY "HIT THE ROAD JACKKK"

Chuck D: "I KNOW we're not done..."

PE PRODUCER Hank Shocklee on Chris' Resonance: "inciteful" (C) HS

but you're done.

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

I see what Kalil is saying. My granpop's say EYE-talian, I always thought it was just a "country" (i.e. ignorant, its all in the context and the expression) way to show disrespect to the particular culture or people, becuase it was usually used in that context. No as far as AY-RAB, this again can be used in anyway. For some it is just slang, for others it is used w/ negative connotation.

I think there is a responsibility in words, you need to understand them at least before you go throwing them around, much like when white's use nigger in the hip-hop usage vs. the supremist/racist usage.

I am sure it is slang in Com's case, however there are people out there who may get burned by it and they can express that and educate and we should listen and understand and maybe this will soften the blow to all in the future.
---------------------------------------
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I have to interject here...
I totally understand why it would be offensive to certain listeners. I am of Italian descent and the only time anyone has referred to me as an eye-talian was some racist redneck asshole who felt it was his job to tell me how disgusted he was that we eye-talians keep moving to his neck of the woods w/ our yankee attitude and lack of morals. He definately did not use it to compliment me. I don't consider com to be a racist, he's one of my all time greats. But let's not forget how the world was up in arms when the sauce started handing out copies of Eminem making "racist" slurs. We can't say words are offensive only when they are offending us personally. We need to understand that every race/religion/nationality has racial slurs attatched to them and we either need to say, fuck it, free speech, say whatever you want, or all agree that if you aren't arab, probably shouldn't say ay-rab; if you aren't black, probably shouldn't use the n-word. It's all the same thing.

Same as how they say Eye-Talian for Italian down south. (should be eh-talian)

It's not offensive, it's just the way they say it.

I think it's the same as the use of arab. Bad grammar from a part of the country that's always used bad grammar...

inspiration when I write I see my daughters eyes.

those hairy middle eastern caucasian animals have been abusers/exploiters of african people for THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

fuck them.

he meant no offense...all the kids say AY-RAB instead of Arab. Just like they say GUY-RO instead of Gyro and I could go on and on. I do my best to correct them but that shit is norm in their area. I am not saying you are wrong just trying to put it in context.


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Lived in Michigan first.


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I'm from chicago, it is not ignorance, or disrespect, or bad grammar.
I say floor like flo
door like doe
syrup like surb
I care very little about conforming to some standard. Yes I knew there was other ways of pronouncing it, I still can't figure out why my uncle says ur-rub.

Offensive? Gimme me a break. I'm not calling an Ay-rab a sand-nigger I am using a word that is as normal as me saying holla rather than holler (before ever it became common)

People say a-rab when being respectful or disrespectful. If we are really being disrespectful we say "stankin ass A-rabs" because when we go into their stores (in all black hoods, whole other rant) and have to buy their shitty overpriced products with bad service, they are "stankin ass a-rabs"

Be more concerned about your real enemy and how they offend you. This shit shouldnt even be in activist.

Seriously, I would be more bothered by how we lump all the people from one area together, iraq, pakistan, india.... all a-rabs to some of us lol.


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"me as a black man will not
stand here and allow you to
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"If I see

Hey I grew up in chicago not to far from common on the south side, I don't think he said in terms of disrespect. That's just how we say it in chicago. I don't used the term anymore, but that's how I used it growing up and to this day many of my peeps still say ay-rab.

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"If I see

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

surely you understand this.

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

you have no argument any more. you and your ay-rab friend tried and failed...there will always be other post topics...now shoo fly.

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

how they feel that others should refer to them? If brother says he does not feel respected when referred to as an A-rab, then shutup and address him how he wants to be addressed. This message goes to brokenchains too. As an Iranian, I can't fucking stand be call "EYE-ranian". Its "EEran" not "I ran". Its a country, not a verb.

seriously. this has been said numerous times by different people on here and none of you have addressed them because you know its true...

the bottom line is that some people just pronounce words differently, they dont mean to be offensive or racist its just how they say the words. i guess i should get pissed off when somebody doesnt say "fellow" but "feller" or if somebody doesnt call me a "MAN" but a "mayne"...riiiight.

get. the-fuck. over. yourselves.

They refusal to learn or care how it is really supposed to be pronounced.

my bad? I try not to be...

allz i'm saying by that is that not everything different is offensive, unless you're thin-skinned.

Its about insisting against the kind of arrogance that dictates, "I will pronounce YOUR peoples' names however I please because that's how I talk. I care not if there is a proper way to address you BOY." It is akin to saying, this is my country and in MY country I will call you however I want. So stop being offended

and being that they lack the "l" sound in their language, and that all syllables must end in a vowel, they don't say i'm black, they say i'm "Ba-ra-ka." am i supposed to get indignant and be like, "I'm Black! How dare you call me something I'm not!" and then i see a tube of that toothpaste with the pickaninny on it, and i jump to the conclusion that they are calling me "Ba-ra-ka" because they think i'm a pickaninny.

do you see how fucking absurd that is?

You're full of shit, there is a huge difference between inabiltiy to pronounce something and having all the ability in the world to say something correctly yet making a million excuses to protect the way YOU want to say it. Japanese people speak a language other than ENGLISH. While many argue that southerners and black americans do not speak english, I still think they all do and they are perfectly capable of the proper english pronounciation of peoples' ethnicities. Your insistance is no different than if I insisted to call all black people blackies and argue that this is just the way I say it.

>and being that they lack the "l" sound in their language, and
>that all syllables must end in a vowel, they don't say i'm
>black, they say i'm "Ba-ra-ka." am i supposed to get indignant
>and be like, "I'm Black! How dare you call me something I'm
>not!" and then i see a tube of that toothpaste with the
>pickaninny on it, and i jump to the conclusion that they are
>calling me "Ba-ra-ka" because they think i'm a pickaninny.
>
>do you see how fucking absurd that is?

what's the problem?

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"If I see

.. except for Saddam Hussein, therefore the reason why most Americans say "Soddom" instead of Saddam has nothing to do with linguistic variance. the mispronounciation is a result of how the name Saddam entered the American lexicon- through the objective, fair, honest reporting of corporate media. for most people, their point of exposure to that name was the mainstream media.

think back to when you were introduced to the person of Saddam Hussein. it was pretty much standard practice for all the mainstream pundits, gov't officials, and so on to repeatedly call Saddam "Soddom". the persistent reference to "Soddom" was intentionally committed to make the obvious subliminal parallel w/ the biblical Sodom. you can take a number of educated guesses as to why this was the case, but i'll post a few articles on it in a bit.

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

you're done.


«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

--------------------------------------------------------------
Nurse Roberts: She googled your ass.

Dr. Kelso: Don't you use your street lingo on me!

******************************
http://myspace.com/jahi
******************************
"me as a black man will not
stand here and allow you to
talk dumb shit about white
women that simply is not true"
SouthPhillyMan

--------------------------------------------------------------
Nurse Roberts: She googled your ass.

Dr. Kelso: Don't you use your street lingo on me!

Northern MS, Stand up!

I'm waiting for these cats to put up facts and sources to say that this isn't a regional dialect.

If you don't believe Arabs here, ask some offline, and if you don't believe them...

If we say what we want about white folks in a song, and care very little about offending them, which is usually meant to be offensive or to display hostility. What makes you think Arabs have the right to say so, well you have the right... but who cares. This is like an external "nigga debate". Tell a black person nigga is offensive, they would probably say fuck you.

******************************
http://profiles.myspace.com/users/1281849
******************************
"me as a black man will not
stand here and allow you to
talk dumb shit about white
women that simply is not true"
SouthPhillyMan

"If I see

You may be right in more ways than you realize.

Suppose that Common is aware of the fact that Arab people take offense to the pronouciation "Ay-Rab". He may be using it in a way that illicits an emotional response abd awareness similarly to the way that Michael Jackson used the word "Kyke" (please pardon the irony of the comparison), with the intention of bringing to light the fact that people use such terms pejoratively.

Another possibility is that he's using it in a familial way. Much the way that Fat Joe uses the N word. There was so much hub-bub about Jennifer Hopez (no that's not a type-o) saying N*GGA because she's not back, but nobody mentions it when Fat Joe, Big PUN, JuJu or any other hispanic rap artist uses the term in a familial sense. The difference here would be that he would likely call himself an "Ay-Rab" but that he would feel a common bond with all oppressed people such that using the word in a non-derogetory way would acceptable among others of the oppressed. This is pretty common (in Chicago at least) in Mexican communities like Little Village and Pilsen (where I used to live), where young Mexican men will call other people Niggaz but never refer to themselves as such.

Another possibility is that He is just using the pronouciation that will stick in peoples minds. We hope it's not as trite as that but can't be sure. Common does have a history of being (or at least seeming to be) insensitive to issues about whole classes of people (Homosexuality, Interracial dating, etc...)


For the record I do agree that Ay-Rab is offensive, though many people don't realize it. Just as many don't realize that "Colored" is offensive.

JM2Cs

>If we say what we want about white folks in a song, and care
>very little about offending them, which is usually meant to be
>offensive or to display hostility. What makes you think Arabs
>have the right to say so, well you have the right... but who
>cares. This is like an external "nigga debate". Tell a black
>person nigga is offensive, they would probably say fuck you.
>
>******************************
>http://profiles.myspace.com/users/1281849
>******************************
>"me as a black man will not
> stand here and allow you to
> talk dumb shit about white
> women that simply is not true"
>SouthPhillyMan
>
>"If I see


"I learned thirty years ago that it is foolish to scold. I have enough
trouble overcoming my own limitations without fretting over the fact that
God has not seen fit to distribute evenly the gift of intelligence." -- J. Wanamaker

...our tax money is killing "ay-rabs" over there in "EYE RAQ" right now. So I can see how the first dude feels about it.

iraqi insurgents have killed over 1000 iraqi people since august of 2003. I posted the article up last month and would be more than glad to repost it if u like.

>iraqi insurgents have killed over 1000 iraqi people since
>august of 2003. I posted the article up last month and would
>be more than glad to repost it if u like.
>
>
Regardless of the fact that Iraqis are kill other Iraqi citizens, the US is killing citizens of Iraq. Even the lives of Iraqis taken by the Insurgents rest on our shoulders because we have created the de-stabilization and have failed to implement adequate measures to protect the people we are supposed to be "freeing" with our cluster bombs.


"I learned thirty years ago that it is foolish to scold. I have enough
trouble overcoming my own limitations without fretting over the fact that
God has not seen fit to distribute evenly the gift of intelligence." -- J. Wanamaker

that americans, the united states, bush, the war, U.S. occupation has caused normally peaceful, loving, caring, heart warming, beautiful, sensitive, non-violent people to strap bombs to themselves not only killing them but other people around them....we've just driven these people into insanity overnight. riiiiiight.

>that americans, the united states, bush, the war, U.S.
>occupation has caused normally peaceful, loving, caring, heart
>warming, beautiful, sensitive, non-violent people to strap
>bombs to themselves not only killing them but other people
>around them....we've just driven these people into insanity
>overnight. riiiiiight.

You infer too much from my words. I've not indicated anything to the affirmative of what you suggest. It's not that the US has driven anyone to insanity and certainly not overnight. The fact is that Iraqi citizens weren't commiting suicide bombings against their fellow Iraqi's before the occupation. This isn't about your assumptions of my point, it's about the actual point: Our actions have lead to a de-stabelized nation state that is now filled with violence. Such was not the case before the cowboys showed up.

"I learned thirty years ago that it is foolish to scold. I have enough
trouble overcoming my own limitations without fretting over the fact that
God has not seen fit to distribute evenly the gift of intelligence." -- J. Wanamaker

and I think the British were involved, but other than that you're on the right track...

a suicide bombing prior to the last 20 years? I bet you cant... Why is it a phenomena that is recent? Surely, if this was a character trait we would have been able to trace this behaviour throughout ALL history, no?

and that's just this latest military campaign. if you take the years since 1991 into consideration, that number jumps to 2,050:1

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

when asked about whether the 500,000 Iraqis who have died as a result of the US sanctions was worth it, she did not refute the number. She only responded "On balance, yes it has been worth it."

Am I hoping too much in thinking that you actually realized that and just wanted to ignore it?

A) insurgents have turned their guns/bombs on the iraqi citizens over the last month and a half. its been all over the news.

B) over 1000 iraqi citizens have been killed since august of 2003 by SUICIDE BOMBINGS.

C) there is no way you can convince me that americans/troops have killed more iraqi people than iraqi's themselves since 1991. if u have proof of this PLEASE provide it...that's like saying the police have killed more black men than black men have since 1991 simply because of a few high profile shootings.

>A) insurgents have turned their guns/bombs on the iraqi
>citizens over the last month and a half. its been all over the
>news.
>
>B) over 1000 iraqi citizens have been killed since august of
>2003 by SUICIDE BOMBINGS.

A and B aren't relevant to the question.

>C) there is no way you can convince me that americans/troops
>have killed more iraqi people than iraqi's themselves since
>1991. if u have proof of this PLEASE provide it...that's like
>saying the police have killed more black men than black men
>have since 1991 simply because of a few high profile
>shootings.

This wasn't zewari's claim.

I should add: I don't know exact numbers so I wasn't trying to say, by co-signing, that I know 100:1 to be the exact ratio... but it seems pretty obvious that Iraqi insurgents can't beat the U.S. army for Iraqis killed! And you're trying to deviously sneak in both the people Saddam killed and regular murders in your deceptive (C).

you bring absolutely nothing to support your argument other than "well, it just seems like some shit that would go down"...you shouldnt bring your hatred for the u.s. government into this argument because that is the only "support" you have for your argument.

i know you two will be up all night trying to find facts and figures that support your arguments and to that I will say "good luck"...but the facts of A and B are relevant; insurgents have killed more iraqi citizens than U.S. troops have. period.

A) i posted where the BBC had to apologize for implying that a majority of the iraqi casualties were from U.S. troops when in fact a large number of them were from iraqi insurgents

B) as i said above, suicide bombings and religious terrorism is not NEW to iraq or the middle east at all...

C) ive been asking this for going on a year now: show me and article/interview/video footage where iraqi citizens are crying, where they fear for their lives, or where troops have gone through towns and slaughtered and raped the women, and tortured the children. nobody has yet to find me this info. the most dirt people have on the U.S. troops is somebody throwing draws on some prisoners heads...

your arguments have no validity. i know you WANT to believe that the U.S. is over there killing and slaughtering folks because u want something to protest and rave against...the only problem is that you can't find it. all u can go on is your "i hate america" instinct and that won't cut it...sorry.

I said obvious that ish has gone down.

Show us we're wrong (but you can't tho).

you show me where iraqi citizens have been interviewed stating that U.S. troops terrorized them and their families, or some photos and video showcasing where U.S. troops have slaughtered innocent women and children for the hell of it, and I will show you

A) video of iraqi's praising the troops and treating them like celebrities when they walk through a city. photos and video of iraqi's waiving the american flag, stories of iraqi people naming their children after george bush (ready to throw up yet?)..

B) video/interviews where iraqi citizens say that they are glad the U.S. is over there fighting but want us to leave ASAP (which is a far cry from 'they hate you' that the left wants us to believe)...matter of fact there is a documentary where the filmmakers gave 150 iraqi citizens DV cams and told them to make THEIR OWN documentary on the iraqi war...the filmmakers have gone on cnn and msnbc and fox news and said the exact same thing: nobody over there HATES the u.s. occupancy. none of them are angry @ the united states or the troops for anything...they just want us gone. "well, they edited it!!" the filmmakers work for MTV, it doesnt get more left/liberal than MTV. this film is this message boards worst nightmare...check it out buddy!

http://www.voicesofiraq.com/

C) photos and videos of the after affects of 100+ people having been blown up outside of a clinic by a suicide bomber. AND some graphic photos/video of iraqi terrorists blowing up citizens in broad daylight.

if u can provide some tangible proof of YOUR claims then I'm done. until then u have nothing.

>you show me where iraqi citizens have been interviewed
>stating that U.S. troops terrorized them and their families,
>or some photos and video showcasing where U.S. troops have
>slaughtered innocent women and children for the hell of it,
>and I will show you

Right, so you're saying if I don't show you video of those things, the numbers of Iraqis killed by the U.S. military will magically go down?

>A) video of iraqi's praising the troops and treating them like
>celebrities when they walk through a city. photos and video of
>iraqi's waiving the american flag, stories of iraqi people
>naming their children after george bush (ready to throw up
>yet?)..
>
>B) video/interviews where iraqi citizens say that they are
>glad the U.S. is over there fighting but want us to leave ASAP
>(which is a far cry from 'they hate you' that the left wants
>us to believe)

From an outsider's perspective, it seems that there are people on both sides being silly and not acknowledging differing perspectives by the country's citizens.

>C) photos and videos of the after affects of 100+ people
>having been blown up outside of a clinic by a suicide bomber.
>AND some graphic photos/video of iraqi terrorists blowing up
>citizens in broad daylight.

So we're back to the point... and again I ask, how does this footage refute the numbers?

>if u can provide some tangible proof of YOUR claims then I'm
>done. until then u have nothing.

So be honest: you really mean to claim that you think more innocent iraqis have been killed by during this current war by insurgents than by the U.S.?

>Right, so you're saying if I don't show you video of those
>things, the numbers of Iraqis killed by the U.S. military will
>magically go down?

- uhmmm...what IS that number? if you can give me a figure then we can talk. but i'd bet the house that the U.S. hasn't killed over 1,000 innocent bystanders just for the hell of it the way suicide bombers have...and again, the reason why im asking for proof is because if the U.S. troops were over there just mowing people down the way you all WANT us to believe, wouldn't there be some outcry by the iraqi people? and in the age of the internet and al-jazeera i'm sure there are folks dying for this type of info and to put it out there for people like you to masturbate to...OR, could it be that these things arent happening at all?



>>C) photos and videos of the after affects of 100+ people
>>having been blown up outside of a clinic by a suicide
>bomber.
>>AND some graphic photos/video of iraqi terrorists blowing up
>>citizens in broad daylight.
>
>So we're back to the point... and again I ask, how does this
>footage refute the numbers?

- see, what confuses me the most about your kind is that one half of you are arguing that the U.S. troops aren't really killing that many people, but that their occupancy is causing these terrorists to do all the killing....the other half (your half) is arguing that the U.S. troops ARE in fact killing people. which one is ut?


>>if u can provide some tangible proof of YOUR claims then I'm
>>done. until then u have nothing.
>
>So be honest: you really mean to claim that you think more
>innocent iraqis have been killed by during this current war by
>insurgents than by the U.S.?

- absolutely. *cue the "oh you're so fucking stupid!" rants without any evidence to support his theory*

...with this CNN article: http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/29/iraq.deaths/

>>>if u can provide some tangible proof of YOUR claims then
>I'm
>>>done. until then u have nothing.
>>
>>So be honest: you really mean to claim that you think more
>>innocent iraqis have been killed by during this current war
>by
>>insurgents than by the U.S.?
>
>- absolutely. *cue the "oh you're so fucking stupid!" rants
>without any evidence to support his theory*

those numbers have been debunked 40 ways from sunday since that story came out..where to begin:

http://www.j-n-v.org/AW_briefings/JNV_briefing075.htm

http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/dveathby.htm

oh and this one kills it

http://www.fumento.com/military/lancetscripps.html

"Consider, too, that 100,000 deaths during the survey period averages out to over 180 a day. Have you heard anyone even claim we killed anywhere near that number on one day, much less every day? The bad guys wouldn't even try to pull that off. They left it to The Lancet.

Even anti-war and anti-American groups and individuals have indicated the Lancet figure is outlandish. "These numbers seem to be inflated," due "to overcounting," Marc Garlasco, of Human Rights Watch told the Washington Post. The website www.iraqbodycount.com estimates about 14,000-16,000 deaths since the war began. The Evil One himself, bin Laden, in his pre-election video, made reference to the Iraq war and stated "over 15,000 of our people have been killed."

Apparently you've forgotten about the two seperate incidences of US soldiers shooting unarmed Iraqi's in cold blood. Since you're a subject matter on US military and foreign policy I'm sure you were aware of this.

http://www.inthebullpen.com/archives/2004/11/15/us-soldier-shoots-iraqi-prisoner-in-raid/




"I learned thirty years ago that it is foolish to scold. I have enough
trouble overcoming my own limitations without fretting over the fact that
God has not seen fit to distribute evenly the gift of intelligence." -- J. Wanamaker

come better. these stories have been debunked as well.

Where is the proof of said debunking? As proceedings have been underway in both incidents I think the defence department would like to know that they are chasing a farse.

Keep shining that dude. People gon' say that "that's just how they pronounce it" but the conscience won't let em do it no more. Unless they choose to.

Then you just walk on because the world seems to balance itself (paraphrase-Harold and Kumar Go To White Castle).

Haha, I just paraphrased Harold and Kumar in a serious post.

But yea, thanks for this, for real. I've got half Saudi Arabian cousins, and my heart hurts to hear the shit they go through at school.

.

I'm back and I read all the replies and there's too much to respond to.

To those that just don't care or refuse to accept that its insulting, or insist that local dialects make it okay to use, or who have real hatred toward all Arabs because of the problems in communities where some own stores and shit... and especially to those who support the war in Iraq...:

Fuck you.


But to those who responded with understanding or brought genuinely dialogical arguments about the issue...
I appreciate it to death because when I posted about this a few years ago I got nothing.


I think the most significant post that deserves more disscussion was Chike's when he said:


"I think Common is trying to represent a certain location (the ghettos of Chicago) through certain eyes (black residents of these parts). His usage of the term can therefore be linked to the common usage of the term by those whose viewpoint he is offering.

QUESTION: Since, on my account, replacing "ay-rab" in the song with "arab" would have more cosmopolitan implications and be less provincial (in terms of reppin a certain vision of the world), is it possible that making such a change would in a way compromise the aim of the song?

A large part of the issue here is whether Common is (knowingly or unknowingly) denigrating Arabs. I would suggest that some of the distrust I referred to IS present here, because of the common issue in black neighbourhoods of other peoples' economic benefit at black folks' expense. I do not think Common included the line on some "We are the world" stuff (i.e., to represent diversity in the ghetto) though I think it would also be going too far to think of the line as vicious or hateful (i.e., calling for Arabs to "get their dirty asses out of the hood"). In fact, the song as a whole aims to be descriptive rather than judgmental, giving you a feeling of resignation as far as Arabs making that money offa black folks eating food that Common as a vegetarian wouldn't."

If I agree with this, which I almost do, I would have to accept Common's usage of the slur in artistic expression, and I would basically have to just stop listening to Common because he doesn't really make the music for me.

Is this the case?

Does he write strictly for Black Americans? Do I not have the right to complain when I'm offended by his lyrics as an Arab?

>If I agree with this, which I almost do, I would have to
>accept Common's usage of the slur in artistic expression, and
>I would basically have to just stop listening to Common
>because he doesn't really make the music for me.
>
>Is this the case?

for real if u are offended by his usage, then fine. if u want to discuss it, fine. but do we or common care if u stop listening to his music? gtfoh with ur arrogant ass.

>Does he write strictly for Black Americans?

for the most part YES. non black americans need to get that into their heads (and this is from a nigerian). like black americans give a fuck if u listen to their music or not

>Do I not have the
>right to complain when I'm offended by his lyrics as an Arab?

yes you have the right to complain (as u are doing here)

the arrogance of ur tone and comments are annoying me

>If I agree with this, which I almost do, I would have to
>accept Common's usage of the slur in artistic expression, and
>I would basically have to just stop listening to Common
>because he doesn't really make the music for me.
>
>Is this the case?

I just want to make it clear that my comments were about the perspective he was trying to represent, not this more nebulous question of "who the music was made for".

>Does he write strictly for Black Americans? Do I not have the
>right to complain when I'm offended by his lyrics as an Arab?

Answer me this: since you know you'd be a liar if you acted like there are not sometimes disrespectful views held by people in the Arab community about black people, would you think it wrong if an Arab MC descriptively made reference to these views (without condemning them) as part of a verse representing life in a certain community?

I think you need to think about this before you even go back to the question of whether he was trying to represent DISRESPECT in this song... cuz the amount of people who seem to have no idea that this pronunciation offended anyone is starting to sway me on my interpretation of his motives.

But remember, on the off chance he didn't say "ay-rab" thinking it was any different than saying "Arab" (in other words, on the off chance that the interpretation I made the first time was wrong in thinking there was any purpose in the pronunciation), then that still doesn't decide whether he would think it true to his purposes to change it once someone told him how people are justifiably offended by this pronunciation.

ÌšΔßÙ®

I don't think this issue is about being picky or sensitive. I believe its about insisting against the kind of arrogance that dictates, "I will pronounce YOUR peoples' names however I please because that's how I talk. I care not if there is a proper way to address you BOY." It is akin to saying, this is my country and in MY country I will call you however I want, thus YOU "Ay-rab boy" should stop being offended.

and being that they lack the "l" sound in their language, and that all syllables must end in a vowel, they don't say i'm black, they say i'm "Ba-ra-ka." and then i get indignant and am like, "I'm Black! How dare you call me something I'm not!" and then i see a tube of that toothpaste with the pickaninny on it, and i jump to the conclusion that they are calling me "Ba-ra-ka" because they think i'm a pickaninny.

do you see how fucking absurd that is?

You're full of shit, there is a huge difference between inabiltiy to pronounce something and having all the ability in the world to say something correctly yet making a million excuses to protect the way YOU want to say it. Japanese people speak a language other than ENGLISH. While many argue that southerners and black americans do not speak english, I still think they all do and they are perfectly capable of the proper english pronounciation of peoples' ethnicities. Your insistance is no different than if I insisted to call all black people blackies and argue that this is just the way I say it.

>and being that they lack the "l" sound in their language, and
>that all syllables must end in a vowel, they don't say i'm
>black, they say i'm "Ba-ra-ka." and then i get indignant and
>am like, "I'm Black! How dare you call me something I'm not!"
>and then i see a tube of that toothpaste with the pickaninny
>on it, and i jump to the conclusion that they are calling me
>"Ba-ra-ka" because they think i'm a pickaninny.
>
>do you see how fucking absurd that is?
>

And the only argument you can come up with is "That's American arrogance." Get THEE fuck outta here with that bullshit. I have seen ONE good argument in this post, and despite MOUNDS AND MOUNDS of testimony that people who use "A-rab" as the pronunciation are not using it in any way meant to be derogatory at all, you insist that we're all arrogant American bigots. It's completely and absolutely absurd and baseless.

The worse kind of biggotry is the kind you are not even aware of.

Actually, I have made other arguments to. However, the insistance not to learn is a distinctive trait of left and right american arrogance. Its a hard piece of socialization to conquer, I know.

He was saying your analogy is bad because "black" is an English word, and you were - in your Japanese example - encountering people speaking a different language. People can correct me on this if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming the word "Arab" in Arabic would be, if not completely different, then at least pronounced differently than what Khalil and people are fighting for in this post...

I'm still of two minds about this whole issue but I wanted to clear that up. No one said to pronounce it like it's pronounced in Arabic. That's why his "blackie" comeback fits.

...then this post is completely and utterly pointless. Cuz then what it would boil down to is someone complaining about regional variations in the pronunciation of an ENGLISH WORD!

EDIT: A linguistic note. There are exactly three words in the English language where that weird "a" sound occurs at the beginning of a multi-syllabic word: "aerate," "error," and "Arab." In every other instance of a multi-syllabic word where "a" precedes "r", the sound pronounced is either a schwa, an English long "a," or an "ah" sound. So by parallel, "Arab" would be pronounced as "A-rab" in non-standard language, and being that names of other nationalities and languages vary across languages -- Germany is Alemania or some variation in all the Romance languages, and Deutschland in German -- this pronunciation shouldn't be surprising.

Say it how you want. One day you will realize that how people want to be addressed is, in fact, a matter of respect and importance.

>Say it how you want. One day you will realize that how people
>want to be addressed is, in fact, a matter of respect and
>importance.

Thing is, my man has shown sensitivity to this earlier in the post... so I figure he has had to have had some internal back-and-forth on the issue as well...

But all this cat wants to do is say "you arrogant Americans" and imply that I'm some kind of racist. And he can stick that bullshit up his arse with no lube. He, nor any of the other offended people in this post, has refuted my argument or offered up a single shred of evidence that me or cats in the ghetto saying "A-rab" is in any way, shape, or form connected to systemic racism, prejudice, or bigotry, or that the pronunciation creates any sort of climate that leads to those things.

One person made a cogent argument, Notorious VIC:
"I dont think it matters why its offensive, it just is. Its just the same when people call me a "Messican." Naw, fuck that, I am a "MEX-I-CAN." People are what they are and dont like being described otherwise, simple as that.

I think the whole 'ay-rab' thing may have a lot to do with this popular, but racist ass song called 'Ahab the Ay-rab.' Its basically some ol Pat Boone sounding muthafucker talking shit about this brown guy with a turban flying on his magic carpet or something, terrible shit. The song got a lot of burn on bubble gum oldies stations in months following 9/11."

And there are two things about that: (1) he's a Mexicano, Me-hee-kah-no, not a Mexican -- which is a perfect example of American English pronouncing a word according to the pronunciation habits of English and not the pronunciation of the original language (2) niggas in the hood have never, ever, and i mean NEVER, heard of the song he referenced.

I just think that its culturally indicative that Americans insist on calling things how they want to because deep inside they seem conditioned to believe that their ideas hold some global standard. Whether you cognitively do think this way or not is not the issue. I don't think you are a racist, at least not outwardly. That is to say that we all harbour racist tendencies that we do not ourselves always aknowledge, and I am ready to plead guilty to this as well. I DO believe it is arrogant when people INSIST on addressing others in a certain manner, despite having all the ability in the world to address them in the way that has been requested of them. It is one thing to be ignorant on whether something is problematic or not. It is a completely different, and arrogant, thing to learn the reality of the situation and still insist to carry on the way one used to. I am not attacking you personally, but I do believe there is a holier-than-thou attitude in America, both among progressives and conservatives, in regards to how the "other" is treated.

i don't understand why it is such a burdensome request to be told why a certain term is considered "offensive." yet, throughout over 150 replies, not once has any logical basis for "A-rab" being considered offensive been proffered.

NOT A SINGLE ONE.

it's not representative of a negative stereotype (redskin, brave); it's not a term used by a particular group in an oppressive campaign against middle eastern people (nigger, negro, colored, kike, heeb); it's not a term used, especially by african-americans, to denigrate or dehumanize middle easterners (chink, hadji, sand nigger); it's not even a pejorative descriptive term applied to a group of people as their name (bushmen, negro).

there's absolutely no reason why the term is offensive, other than "it just is." that the poster, or others, is basically saying, "shut up, cuz i told you to," evinces a certain type of arrogance in and of itself.

goes against the one in which you quote the "messican" stuff.

No, it doesn't. I've asked one simple question throughout this entire post, and have received one middling answer.

I never said "shutup cuz I told you" and the offensiveness has to do with many reasons, some of which I think I made quite clear (ie, the general respect of refer to someone as they wish to be refered to. Is that such a hard concept?) Secondly, due to the arrogance that I spoke of, I find it diminuitive (ie, insisting that the mispronounciation is regional rather than just simply incorrect makes the speaker to feel s/he does not have change, but it should be the lesser Arab that has to change). Third, when me and my friends sit around making "redneck" jokes we often say things like "Hey Cleotus, lets go find us some AY-rabs and pull the towels off their heads!" The primary image I receive when I hear the term mispronounced as Ay-rab is one of mockery and belittlement. People say Ay-rab when they are in the act of not taking Arab people seriously.

Despite me listing of reasons above, just like black people should never have to explain to others why they don't like a particular treatment, neither do Arabs or any other ethnic group for that matter. I should NEVER have to justify why you shouldn't call me "EYE-ranian". If you were not aware that its incorrect and offensive, and are capable of pronouncing it properly, do not look for a reason to change. Change first and sooner or later you will get why.

>just like black people
>should never have to explain to others why they don't like a
>particular treatment,

I'll take "treatment" to mean "name," which is the point of this post. The simple fact is, I could give you a laundry list of reasons why I wouldn't appreciate being called a "nigger," "colored," "Negro," "coon," "porch monkey," "sambo," etc. They're connected to systemic racism, racial violence, negative stereotypes, all of that.

NONE OF WHICH IS CONNECTED WITH "AY-RAB."

Not a single one. The example that you gave of you and your friends mocking rednecks is faulty and you know that, because in the example you are mocking REDNECKS, not Middle Eastern people.

At least we've gotten to the heart of the matter. You feel people should never have to justify feeling offended. I think that's preposterous, and it doesn't foster dialogue of any sort.

>I'll take "treatment" to mean "name," which is the point of
>this post. The simple fact is, I could give you a laundry list
>of reasons why I wouldn't appreciate being called a "nigger,"
>"colored," "Negro," "coon," "porch monkey," "sambo," etc.
>They're connected to systemic racism, racial violence,
>negative stereotypes, all of that.

So you don't see a general rise of demeaning names towards Arabs in conjunction with the abuses of the patriot act and all sorts of repression against that community all of the United States?1

>NONE OF WHICH IS CONNECTED WITH "AY-RAB."
>
>Not a single one. The example that you gave of you and your
>friends mocking rednecks is faulty and you know that, because
>in the example you are mocking REDNECKS, not Middle Eastern
>people.

No, you are absolutely wrong. We are making fun of the way rednecks use the pronounciation, "AY-RAB" in order to be intentionally racist and hateful.

>At least we've gotten to the heart of the matter. You feel
>people should never have to justify feeling offended. I think
>that's preposterous, and it doesn't foster dialogue of any
>sort.

I believe in dialogue, I don't believe anyone should be placed under a firing squad to justify why they feel persecuted. Sometimes there is enough of a hostile environment around that it should be just okay to plead the fifth.

>No, you are absolutely wrong. We are making fun of the way
>rednecks use the pronounciation, "AY-RAB" in order to be
>intentionally racist and hateful.
The whole point of this debate is whether people say "Ay-rab" to be racist or hateful. You assume it as a basic premise, and I am saying that basic premise is flawed. I ask why you think a term is racist or hateful, and you tell me it's because you make fun of people who you think use it in a racist and hateful manner. Do you see the flaw in that logic at all?

>>At least we've gotten to the heart of the matter. You feel
>>people should never have to justify feeling offended. I
>think
>>that's preposterous, and it doesn't foster dialogue of any
>>sort.
>
>I believe in dialogue, I don't believe anyone should be placed
>under a firing squad to justify why they feel persecuted.
>Sometimes there is enough of a hostile environment around that
>it should be just okay to plead the fifth.
It's not a "hostile environment." It's a message board, and no one in this post has answered an extremely simple question w/o resort to rhetoric.

YOU and YOUR friends making fun of redneck pronunciations that you THINK, and have never independently confirmed, are used to belittle or demean Middle Eastern people. That's not an example of anything at all. Except that you and your friends assume that rednecks are constantly seeking to belittle or demean other peoples. And, even if they are, neither I nor Common is a redneck. Which SHOULD cause you to re-evaluate whether the word is meant as a slur.

Just save it man. I've actually spent my whole life correct people on how they talk about me, I'm not going to sit here any longer with you and debate the connotations of mispronouncing Arab. It should be obvious, and you seem more driven by the pride of winning an argument than understand anything. This shit is over.

It's not about "winning an argument," it's about the simple fact that no one can provide me any cogent reason, other than the general presumption that Americans are racist and arrogant, for why "A-rab" would be considered offensive.

aqua, AREA, amber, allah, anchor, another, army... none of these words are pronounced AY, as in ALIEN.

I said when "a" precedes "r," and you provided a bunch of words where "a" precedes another consonant, plus one other word where "a" precedes "r" -- that is commonly pronounced "urrea" in several sections of the country!

actually, the rule for pronounciation is that in the case of the first vowel, its pronounciation depends on whether the second vowel makes the consonant that preceeds it soft or hard. The word "Acer" demonstrates that the 'e' softens the 'c' and thus produces the sound AY-cer. In the word "Arab" the 'r' is not affected be either 'a'.

And everything else you said either makes no sense or is besides the point

lol

You're out on a limb trying to debate linguistics brother.

>And everything else you said either makes no sense or is
>besides the point
>
>lol
>
>You're out on a limb trying to debate linguistics brother.

I think it makes perfect sense.

Acer is a word

"acer

n : type genus of the Aceraceae; trees or shrubs having winged fruit "

This isn't even central to my point so I don't want to dwell on it much longer. I'm tired of this entire topic.

you've represented my argument very well...

and more importantly,when will ARABS stop selling liqour in low income neighbourhoods?A lot of them are Muslim.
If they do that,then they deserved to be called anything.

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should be held responsible for the actions of some arabs. Who's the racist now? Hey, how about black soldiers in Iraq who have killed Arabs? Should we stigmatize all blacks because of them?

On a further note, this is how capitalism divides people by race. Because there is money to be made in low income regions from the sale of liquor, some people -who happen to be Arabs- decide to capitalize. Now regressively political black nationalists see this and decide that they can call all Arabs anything they want. True fucking hipocrisy. sick

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nm

To sell and deal in haram products. They don't do this in their own neighborhoods, or amongst a strong community of Muslims (again, generalizing but get over it) but they do it in the black community because they look down on us as a people.

That, I BELIEVE was his point.

And if that is his point I can see where he's coming from.


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>To sell and deal in haram products. They don't do this in
>their own neighborhoods, or amongst a strong community of
>Muslims (again, generalizing but get over it) but they do it
>in the black community because they look down on us as a
>people.

Right, and in an economy where this is left as an option for survival, people will go ahead and do it to feed their families. I'm sure some Arabs look down on black people, surprise, surprise. I'm sure there black people who look down on Koreans and Latin Americans. I've heard it. But I would never take such an attitude and outrageously claim that I will hate on the entire group because of some of their members.

>That, I BELIEVE was his point.

If that is his point, you've wasted your breath because I understood what he was saying. At the same time I think he was flawed by trying to prosecute and entire people based on some vendors in his neighborhood.

>And if that is his point I can see where he's coming from.

Wow, could you see where David Duke was coming from?

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Do you even realize this guy a northern Sudanese? He's either Arab or living in an Arab world...

than to make sweeping generalizations about the entire Arab population based on a few alcohol vendors.

>should be held responsible for the actions of some arabs.
Arabs should/
>Who's the racist now? Hey, how about black soldiers in Iraq
>who have killed Arabs? Should we stigmatize all blacks because
>of them?
>Arabic is my second language/Linguistically I am a 'Arab'.Besides why are you jumping all over this?
>On a further note, this is how capitalism divides people by
>race. Because there is money to be made in low income regions
>from the sale of liquor, some people -who happen to be Arabs-
>decide to capitalize.
This is where you fucked up.it's not capitalising,it's hypocrisy.A lot of these Arabs are Muslim,who shouldn't be drinking,yet alone selling,liqour.
Have you ever been-as a black man-across that 3 inch glass?They are-Arab storekeepers= thee most racist motherfuckeres EVER.


Now regressively political black
>nationalists see this and decide that they can call all Arabs
>anything they want. True fucking hipocrisy. sick
Mayne,who said all that?
Although I will say they-yall actually-have a way of treating other nations with derision then crying how you are discriminated against.

You still continue to make sweeping statements about a whole race of people based on the actions of certain owners and elites. This type of regressive generalizing has a lot to do with our learning of history from the perspective of the "great man". You superimpose the actions of a visible group within a group and then proceed to label and "other" the entire group. You know, arabs like every other ethnic group, are divided by classes too and have different interests amongst each other.

Edit: by the way capitalism builds all sorts of hipocrisy. The accumulation of value by commodifying every aspect of life is inherent in our system and in contradiction to most religious values. However, it the market is the only means by which people realize such value and we cannot escape such realities until we abolish the market.

He said Arabs who sell liquor in low-income Black neighborhoods.

why he interpreted him as hating on all Arabs, lol.

"when will ARABS stop selling liqour in low income neighbourhoods?A lot of them are Muslim. If they do that,then they deserved to be called anything."

Lets turn this around:

When will black people stop selling crack in low income neighborhoods? A lot of them are Christians. If they do that, then they deserve to be called anything....

Well, by this logic can I, as a non-black person, call a black crack dealer a "nigger"? I wouldn't even want to but such an attack, in my opinion, is an attack on the entire black population.

dumb question.



>and more importantly,when will ARABS stop selling liqour in
>low income neighbourhoods?A lot of them are Muslim.
>If they do that,then they deserved to be called anything.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Nurse Roberts: She googled your ass.

Dr. Kelso: Don't you use your street lingo on me!

>and more importantly,when will ARABS stop selling liqour in
>low income neighbourhoods?A lot of them are Muslim.
>If they do that,then they deserved to be called anything.

They will probably stop when Koreans, Indians, Pakistanis, Latinos, Whites, and Blacks do the same. C'mon, when are "Americans" going to stop selling liquor in Native American neighborhoods?

Much love for this answer. The problem is systemic not about the morality of a whole race of people...

who are taking sides against Khalil and the proper pronounciation of Ay-rab. It is really telling when you are all on the same side of a biggotry conversation as sauvebro. Bravo everyone, you sad, sad lot.

Just the way people in chicago say it. I catch myself saying it sometimes when I'm around friends. No disrespect to the arabs.

yerp® New Shit!

Thats just how they pronounce it. Im from Buffalo, NY i used to say it that way until i found out it was like a racial slur. I would think Com knows that it is also.

the only thing i can think of is that he was using it in the context of the song. The Corners in a way an attempt to get some street credibility back from everyone he thought was soft so using terminology that cats in the hood would associate with would be the way to go. But i can understand u being upset.

To mE_again:

I don't understand where the perception of arrogance comes from. I was asking the questions genuinely, not making any kind of point or statement. I was actually asking and would be willing to accept an answer that would mean my exclusion, if it came from everyone or from Common himself.

To Chike:
If an artist includes something offensive to one group of people while representing the perspective of an other, doesn't that limit his intended audience to the group he's repping? This is why I brought up the issue of 'who the music is made for'.

And if the answer is that he DOES write just for Black Americans as mE_again suggests, or even just for Chicago, as some players around here seem to think, then the only lyric Common might ever have to change would be:
"I went from bashful to asshole to international."
to just
"I went from bashful to asshole..."

About the scenerio with the Arab emcee, I would shit on him if he portrayed that disrespect without condemning it. But the analogy doesn't fit perfectly because the Arab emcee would be doing so while using a Black art-form (at least originating from Blacks if not created exclusively by or for Blacks). That makes it different from what Common has done, but I still think that I have the right to be mad.

I don't suggest that he change the lyric to 'Arab' because as you say it might not then be true to his artistic purposes, I just wish he wouldn't include lines like that anymore out of compassion for the rest of us Arabs, especially those who have loved and listened to him for years.

To Pinko Panther:

Thank you.

I wish I had the insight and energy to be as thorough as you have.

I totally feel dude on what he's sayin.. It's kinda like nigga and it's alternative. For the most part it's about disrespect and in his case he sees it as that. I'm from Jerz and I wouldn't call a person an Arab let alone an Ay rab; I'd call em whatever country their from or "that Middle Eastern dude". From what a friend of mines tells me it's about acknowledgin son is Arab but making fun of it in the same right. If they dont like it who am I to say otherwise?



Peace.

>From what a friend of mines tells me it's about
>acknowledgin son is Arab but making fun of it in the same
>right. If they dont like it who am I to say otherwise?

bam.

Edit: Yes, yes, many people don't know it can be perceived as making fun of Arabs, let alone mean to make fun of Arabs... but this of course is not the point. The point is that this is how it is taken (and I don't think unreasonably so) and... well, see the last sentence.

I think that its coming from a perspective that is not him. A white person perspective, or at least from a discrimination stand point. I think MCs can jump out of their skins. Or at least from a third person perspective. Isn't Common a muslim? Also he could like that these Arabs that are trying to live the American dream the white way, not the Muslim way, are not true Arabs so they are "AY-arabs." Like Uncle Toms. Or he could be racist. I don't know. He is a smart rapper who have a experience with this "AY-arab" thing then we think.

that's the redneck way of saying it

always makes me wince when i hear those lines from com

start hearing the 'deliverance' song and shit


so... sorry chitown, but yous sound 'overalls, pickups and shotguns' to us when you say ay-rab.

...in reference to words that could be perceived as offensive to a group of people.

It would seem to me white folks who might get called rednecks are of two types: those who would wear it as a badge of pride and those who wouldn't because they feel offended at its implications.

No reason for the 1st group to mind it being thrown around.

As for the 2nd, tho they might be offended at having this stuff implied about themselves, are they gonna deny that there really is folks it applies to? If so, they're crazy. If not, why should they mind people using the term?

Because "redneck" is a term that is used to ascribe a set of characteristics to a specific group of people -- to stereotype them. And people who get called "redneck" would be reacting to a term that is meant to belittle or demean them my assigning negative or exaggerated characteristics to their ethnic group, and often to imply lower intelligence or ignorance.

So if someone objects to being called a "redneck," they can point to negative images, and OBVIOUSLY from this post, to a high degree of prejudice and bigotry exhibited towards them by people who would call them "rednecks."

NONE OF WHICH APPLIES TO THE USAGE OF THE TERM "A-RAB"!

>Because "redneck" is a term that is used to ascribe a set of
>characteristics to a specific group of people -- to stereotype
>them. And people who get called "redneck" would be reacting to
>a term that is meant to belittle or demean them my assigning
>negative or exaggerated characteristics to their ethnic group,
>and often to imply lower intelligence or ignorance.
>
>So if someone objects to being called a "redneck," they can
>point to negative images, and OBVIOUSLY from this post, to a
>high degree of prejudice and bigotry exhibited towards them by
>people who would call them "rednecks."
>
>NONE OF WHICH APPLIES TO THE USAGE OF THE TERM "A-RAB"!

Clearly you would have to be absolutely crazy not to agree that the stereotyping and demeaning of Arabs is a widespread practice in America today, and you just haven't been listening while people have tried to explain that this is what many of us associate "A-rab" with. Your retort is that this type of disrespect is not necessarily meant when people use the term... and that would be all well and good if this was just a misperception on the part of foreigners like tohunga and myself.

But it's clearly not. Even Rjcc came up in here explaining that Arabs find it offensive - that is, ASSOCIATE WITH IT THEIR BEING STEREOTYPED AND DEMEANED. You don't care, you just want to keep asking why, which indicates to me that you're shutting out in your mind all the anti-Arab racism you've encountered so that you can focus on people using it inoffensively, but THIS IS WHY NO ONE WILL EVER SATISFY YOU. It happens at certain times that people talk about "A-rabs" badly - this you cannot deny. To you, the fact that sometimes people talk about "A-rabs" meaning no disrespect invalidates the association that is made on the basis of the first fact. So there is no reason to continue asking for examples, no one will be able to give you any that will sway you, because you'll just go back to thinking about inoffensive usage (like your own, like some of the Chicago ppl in this post, etc).

By the way, who is rjcc? That's not Com is it?

No it's not Com.

Just ONE example of someone using "A-rab" to demean, stereotype, attack, or belittle Middle Eastern people. And throughout nearly 200 posts, no one has provided a SINGLE example of the people using the term trying to offend, only of people feeling offended. I'm sorry if you all think I'm asking for something out of the ordinary. I could give you a litany of those things associated with "towelhead," "hadji," "sand nigger," "Mohammed," my damn self.

The only semblance of examples I have heard is that "rednecks are ignorant and racist," which in and of itself is a prejudiced statement, "and they say 'A-rab'," and that there is anti-Arab racism generally in America. And no one has responded to anything I've said, other than to say, "How arrogant of you to dare ask!"

You mean you honestly have never heard someone use the term "A-rab" WHILE belittling Arabs? But yet you have heard people call them other names while doing so? Does this mean you've also never heard someone belittle Arabs while calling them "Arabs"?

I still think you're waiting for someone to show how the belittling happened in THE VERY USE of "A-rab" and THIS IS WHAT NO ONE WILL EVER BE ABLE TO CONVINCE YOU OF.

(lol @ our overuse of caps)

And while everyone is getting huffy, if someone could've provided one example of a personal experience or a well-known occurrence, I would've been shut the fuck up. But being as all they've done as I continually ask that same question over and over again, I'm a little suspicious that they're being oversensitive and making little or no effort to reach common ground.

"Does this mean you've also never heard someone belittle Arabs while calling them "Arabs"?"

Oh, I get it.

(1) chillsm00th is proposing that "A-rab" is the normal Midwestern pronunciation of A-R-A-B.
(2) chillsm00th is from the Midwest
(3) chillsm00th has heard people refer disparagingly to people of Middle Eastern descent.
(4) therefore, when chillsm00th has heard people refer disparagingly to people of Middle Eastern descent, he has heard them called "A-rabs."
(5) thus, he should recognize that "A-rab" is a racial slur.

I suppose that's logical enough. Except, replace "A-rab" with "Saudi." Or "Iraqi." Or with "Chinese." Or "Korean." Or "Indian." You're to tell me that calling a Chinese person Chinese is a racial slur? That's preposterous on its face.

Point was:

1) chillsm00th has heard people use "A-rab" while denigrating Arabs
2) Because he's familiar with the use of term without purposeful denigration, he doesn't see how it could sound denigrating
3) No amount of "I heard someone say 'those crazy A-rabs' and proceed to say racist stuff about them" will help him understand why Arabs associate the mispronunciation with denigration of Arabs.

You denied (1) and I asked if you had ever heard anyone denigrate Arabs while saying "Arab" (point being I was surprised you would say you never heard anyone use the term Arab, pronounced any which way, while being offensive). But all I've been doing is getting caught up in a back-and-forth I said I would stop.

I've completely missed this whole debate but I've read all the responses and I'd just have to say I totally agree with Pinko-Panther and u. I really don't get how difficult this is to grasp. I mean sure people might not be trying to cause offense, stereotupe, whatever. But when an Arab actually says he finds that pronuncation offensive, who the hell are u all to argue. I mean its just such a lack of respect for people of different races and cultures. Its not about dialects of english or any crap like that, just if someone says they find it offensive, u should listen, its not ur fucking birth-right as an american to pronounce anything any way u like, or whatever way u've grown up pronouncing something. Jeez, just learn a bit of respect for other people. (rant over)

Thank you, its nice to have people to confirm you're not crazy. Good looking out.

and to quickly explain my use of the word redneck:

i couldn't give a fuck if anyone is offended by that. if you're offended by that word in any way, shape or form, then i have some advice- sell your pickup, burn your bib overalls, get some dental work done and stop fucking your cousin..... and then come join us in the 21st century. because 'redneck', that's a lifestyle and not a 'race'. it can change- as opposed to "ay-rabs", who can't change their skin.

i'm smart enough to differentiate between, say, a southern or a midwest accent, and a straight-up hick way of talking. your president talks like a hick. and 'ay-rab' is something that has definitely come from this 'hick' school of speech.


so... sorry, Cletus and friends, but i don't like ya

My pops named me after the dude who gave him his first shot when he came to this country. They became good friends 'til dude had to move to Jersey. It was an Italian cat. His name was Dominick.

At the time, the only people who had the name Dominique were females. ONLY females.

Fast forward 12 years. We move to Georgia, the Atlanta area. Dominique Wilkins is a god here. Noone seems to be able to SAY Dominick.

Some people I tell , no it's DAH-MiN-ick and while they make and EFFORT they can't/refuse to get it right. They'll say Dominick for about an hour, and be right back to Dominique even after I spelled
em out noting the differences.

I tell them the name has a special significance to me and my family.

So they call me 'nique for short, not out of spite but becuase thats how we do it here.

Sodas is Cokes
Tissue is Kleenex
Jamaiacans is JAR-maicans
and A-rabs is Arabs.

Unless someone has significant education I will never expect more, and neither should anybody else. I used to get heated bout that shit, but now it don't phase me.

I accept both names.

and that's the way I approach this issue.

who knew it was offensice?

I'll try not to use it, but it'll probrably slip out now and then.

i got a good friend with an Arab wife that says A-rabs. I bet he aint know it was offensive either.

I mean, WHO KNEW?


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>I mean its just such a lack of respect for people of different
>races and cultures.

People don't go to school because they dont want to learn.

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"me as a black man will not
stand here and allow you to
talk dumb shit about white
women that simply is not true"
SouthPhillyMan

errr...what are you talking about?

Your statement about it being a lack of respect of people and their culture is as thin as saying kids dont go to school because they dont want to learn. It may have some validity to it but it explains nothing.

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"me as a black man will not
stand here and allow you to
talk dumb shit about white
women that simply is not true"
SouthPhillyMan

damn u irritating me. I meant exactly what I said. I dunno if u read what i posted right (I'm assuming u didn't) but I wasn't trying to explain anything. It was a simple matter of fact statement that people who are told that something is offensive and continue to say it are showing a lack of respect for people and their culture. I don't need an explanation of why its offensive to stop doing it, I'd consider it pretty arrogant to carry on doing it till someone can show me the history of why its offensive or some bullshit. Why the fuck is that so hard to understand? I mean if u came across a small commune of white people in the middle of nowhere and they called u nigga, and u told them that was offensive but they carried on anyway and demanded an explanation of why they should stop. Yeah I bet u'd love that. I mean if u walked into a Hindu temple and they told u to take your shoes off, but you said 'no, fuck that, I've worn shoes indoors all my life, u gotta prove thats disrespectful before I'm gonna take them off'. Its a little thing called respect.

Because right now you are showing very poor comprehension skills.

*edit* Btw, I did read it right. Your simple matter of fact statement, is far from fact. Which is why I compared it to something that may seem matter of fact, but in actuality, it is just a lazy EXPLANATION for behavior, which you are also off the mark on.

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"me as a black man will not
stand here and allow you to
talk dumb shit about white
women that simply is not true"
SouthPhillyMan

Don't think so, but maybe so. That don't matter though, at least I've comprehended the most important thing of all here, the need to respect people.

I wonder if the shit people are saying in response to Khalil's posting is being said just to stir the pot and start shit up. Ya'll They cant really be that IGNORANT. Where the fuck is your respect for another person's culture or identity. Can't you fucking empathize with what this brother is saying?. I would break someones face if they called me colored or nigger. Fuck I care if where they come from saying colored or nigger is just the dialect. If it is, then read a damn book and expose yourself to life outside your eyes. if it is, upon learning more about it, why wouldn't you stop using it.? The arguments posted by people supporting Khalil have been clear, concise and objective. It almost seems like motherfuckers just wanna stay saying some ignorant shit because they want to, and recognize they have no way of justifying it.

>I would break someones face if they called me colored or nigger.

You know what would happen to you in jail if they asked you what you are in for, and you said "hit somebody because they called me nigga" Somebody in there would smack the shit out of you and say, suck my dick "nigguh"

lmao


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"me as a black man will not
stand here and allow you to
talk dumb shit about white
women that simply is not true"
SouthPhillyMan

I'm not sure what your point is?

To start off I'll put the issue of A-rab being offensive on the back burner for a second, so this will not be so superficial to brand people racist, ignorant, or bigoted based on the pronunciation of a word. I only speak about Chicago on the subject because I don't know the specific dynamics of say Detroit, ATL, NYC etc.

Fundamental to this argument is the relationship between Blacks and Arabs. People talk about things and people from their experience and knowledge, and hopefully limit it to just that. So when we talk about Arabs 9/10 we are not talking about someone in Saudi Arabia living their everyday life. The people we are talking about are the people who we see in our day to day interactions. To some extent the same people who pronounce it A-rab have alot more sense than the general American public to know that what's going on in Iraq is American imperialism and are sympathetic to the larger issue to some extant.

But the reality in Chicago that common speaks about is the reality that talks about the common interaction between Arabs. The issue becomes laughable to me because while this issue has garnered over 200 replies in cyberspace this kind of dialogue would not exist in reality. For example, where I live Arabs dont live. The only time you see them is when you go in their stores, in most cases, all Black communities. I don't think I ever had a conversation with someone who would be considered Arab until I went to college, and to find out he considered being called Arab, no matter how you pronounce offensive.

Now I dont even have to speculate about common's purposes for pronouncing it the way he did in the song. The way he said is the way it exist from the place he is speaking. If you dont like it don't listen, i choose not to listen to thousands of artist.

Not everyone says Arab the same way, but what is more real is, no matter how we say it, the sentiment about the Arabs we know in our reality is the same. Truthfully, from the Clergyman to the local activist, Arabs are seen as a sore in the community, much like how drug dealers are seen. When 20 different families from the middle east has divided up the Black community and operates on a mission for maximum exploitation, it's about much more than a word. There is only 1, possibly 2 Black owned grocery stores in the city. Outside of the more commerical establishments they are owned by who would be considered Arab, this can go on and on.

What is offensive, and to whom is the question. The ancillary questions is, why should the offender care if the other person is offended, especially when that is not the specific intent. Personally, I do pronunciate the term both ways, depending on the context. I liken it to my use of the word nigga. I don't use it hardly in regular speech, not because I find it offensive just because I know the history, and I dont see a use for it. But depending on who I am talking to and the nature of the conversation I will probably say it a few times. My point is, you can say being called an A-rab is offensive, my reply on behalf of the Black community is, so what? Beat it! That's just the way it is. No message board is going to change this because this is hardly representative of the people who use it. On a personal level if i know you, and we are cool I can respect you to call you whatever you want to be called.

Bottom lines Blacks and Arabs dont talk, and it is much bigger than respect and some people are trying to chalk it up, I think alot of you people are so entrenched in your political correctness you are blind to the real issues.

As a disclaimer, I am pretty defensive of the Black community, I care very little about what people outside the community has to say about it. Alot of these issues and opinions are "cyber opinions" and just by the way people have talked in this thread, throwing around words like "ignorant", I can easily say I am offended, but I still say so what! PinkoPanther spewing his racist charges are laughable, what does that mean to us, who's hearing you? We have 99 problems, but A-rab is not one.





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http://myspace.com/jahi
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"me as a black man will not
stand here and allow you to
talk dumb shit about white
women that simply is not true"
SouthPhillyMan

LOL... classic ending.

>We have 99 problems, but A-rab is
>not one.

"People and Culture of the Middle East" taught by an Iranian professor.

We went through the pronunciation of all the Middle Eastern countries because he was not going to tolerate the way some Americans mispronounce these words. It meant to a lot to him and I thought it was great that he started off the class that way to make sure everyone understood.