>>>Why wouldn't he be? You seem to think that if someone
>>>doesn't "believe" in "God" (and again, I don't pretend to
>>>know anyone's beliefs, even my own), then it makes no sense
>>>for him to care about society. This is nonsense.
>>
>>Wrong. I KNOW we ALL care about society. I'm not accusing
>>anyone of not caring, but recognizing the fact that we share
>>a common bond here. But that fact has to be legitimized by
>>God for it to be a fact.
>
>WRONGGGGG!!! Can we all stop throwing that word around as
>if we really understood some shit? We're talking philosophy
>here, nobody is "wrong."

If I say there is a God, and you say there is no God, one of us is wrong. This is the first rule in logical truth-value.

Some of us make weak arguments,
>though; arguments which don't make any sense, and have no
>external justification outside of pure culture. Your
>statement that "that fact has to be legitimized by God for
>it to be a fact" is an interesting case in point.
>
>You're arguing that humans have no common bond if not that
>supplied by a conscious creator? Did that statement come
>from anywhere other than your pastor?

Yes.

>The common bond among all humans is pretty clear from
>ordinary experience. If I see a dude on the sidewalk, walk
>up and crack him in the jaw, he'll crack me right back.

Are you sure?

>It's better for all of us, including me, if I just smile and
>keep walking.
>
>The "common bond" among all of humanity is that we're all
>stuck here together. We have to cooperate, or rather, in
>the long run, we want to cooperate.

So your morality is a based on your own survival? I don't believe you. Would you rather walk up to the dude and crack him in his jaw than keep walking?

>>>With or without God, there is still beauty.
>>
>>I disagree.
>>
>>With or without
>>>God, there is still pain.
>>
>>I agree.
>
>Oooh! Dramatic!

You made opinionated statements... I gave you my opinion.

>>We are completely aware of these
>>>things, we see them every day (which is more than I can say
>>>for God). We also know that they never take a completely
>>>local existence. If we assume there is no God, then IT'S UP
>>>TO US to increase the beauty and reduce the pain.
>>
>>Why? I cannot see why it would matter if I blew up the world
>>if there is no God.
>
>Most atheists are not so childish.

I was an atheist... I know atheists are not childish. I just couldn't ever answer the "childish" question when I was one.

>>If there is no God, who is to say a
>>Rwandan genocide is wrong? Aren't the murderers just as
>>valid in their beliefs as I am?
>
>Sure, if the only justification you ask for is supernatural.
> In reality, what goes around comes around. The murderers
>have made a lot of enemies. They'll get theirs someday, and
>even if they don't they'll still be targets of revenge for
>the rest of their lives. Even if they aren't judged by God,
>they've been judged by the rest of us.

No, they haven't. Not if their actions are as validated as your own. Then we have no right to judge them. I'm not asking for justification from God... right now, I'm simply arguing the point that a Rwandan genocide is wrong. If you honestly believe their actions are as valid as your own (as you just stated), I simply do not believe you. peace,