>ther are a series of "acts" in which people engage, that do >not necessarily dictate one's sexual orientation (or I've >heard some call it attraction orientation... since you're so >hung up on sex). what one desires (an emotional capacity and
>sensibility) is not what one does (the sexual act itself).
>What is sex for money or survivor sex? (is it desire)?

Point taken. The act does not equal desire.
Though I'm not sure what survivor sex is.

>I know straight boys and girls who play now and then, and I
>don't think that makes them gay.

The use of the word "PLAY", to me, seems to imply it's something they enjoy doing. Not just for the sake of money or survival.

>Gay is a deeper sensibility for deciding you'll live with same->sex desire despite the societal dictates that suggest it's >wrong, abominable, sinful, impossible even.
>
So gay is a decision. I'm not sure I get what you are saying here. If you have same-sex desire and decide not to act upon them then your not gay?

If one is born with same-sex desire (which I don't think everyone who identifies with being gay is) how can one decide to live with or without it unless you are referring to the act of gay sex itself being the manifestation of the decision to be gay.

>2. romance and relationship being consumated by sex has
>nothing to do with sexuality per se.... it doesn't mean
>that where there's sex there is romance, it doesn't mean
>that where there is romance there is sex. but I bet you
>that chances are.... if your deep emotional attachements to
>someone are complemented by sexual desire, then you got some
>romance with some "shooky-shooky-now" on the way.

My stance on romance/romantic is that it is all bull. Nothing more than the silly musings of a little girls.

>Your stance seems pretty anti-sex/erotophobic, which isn't >going to win over many heterosexuals either.

I don't know where you get I fear or am against sex out of what I wrote.

>like it or not, they're not beating and imprisoning and >mocking and discriminating againt people for "homosexual >thoughts"... it's ultimately the "act" that marks the >difference (thus sodomy laws, not "thinking about getting some >boy-ass" laws). (Were there any heterosexuals convicted under >the sodomy laws?). In my opinion, sexual acts aren't bad.

You mean those between humans and that are sexual in nature. Correct?

>the creator wouldn't have given us the impulse if it were...

To suggest the having impulses to do something means it is not bad is a false premise unless you prescribe to the philosophy that there is no bad.

>something to produce children, to consumate love between
>adults. We are not always very responsible with this erotic
>power... but that doesn't make it bad.
>
I agree with you on the "no always very responsible" part.

>3. I'm not nor will ever be one of those ex-gays. Hell, as
>for my sense of my sexual orientation... children, contrary
>to what you believe, do develop sensibilities and concepts
>for what their lives will be about as adults. Children do
>feel sexual desire. children are not responsible enough to
>deal with that desire, which is why we generally recommend
>abstinence until the child reaches an age where they
>understand the consequences of desire... but children, my
>friend, do desire. maybe some don't. I surely did... and
>I'm sure I can get a witness. I knew that as surely as my
>big brother 7, talked about having a pretty wife someday,
>that my romantic attachments were and would continue to be
>for men. Over the years I did question that and ultimately
>got clarity. The first time I kissed a guy I was like....
>damn... that's what it's supposed to feel like!
>
I'm not arguing the children don't have sexual desires. What I'm saying is at five I don't believe they do. Unless someone has been or is being inappropriate with them.

>Now calling me confused? I'll take that up with you should
>we ever meet. I've never been "confused" and certainly
>never come across that way. Confused are the girls who
>think they can convert me (and damn if they ain't trying all
>the time) or the brothas who think I'm some anomaly because
>I got some butch in my bones. LOL
>
Your right I don't know you like that to just come out and say you were confused. I meant to propose a possibility of confusion. You asnwer that already.

>You ever heard of compulsory heterosexuality? it's
>basically being and thinking you're hetero because the
>society in which you live provides no other option.... or
>presents other options as damnable or abject. It's a
>relevant concept for this conversation as that's what a lot
>of the African (born and raised) people I know speak of when
>talking about reconciling their Africanness with their
>homosexuality. the desire was always there. exploring it
>was not always an option.
>
I guess the idea I am advocating is cumpulsory homosexuality? Because a child doesn't act as society dictates their gender should act they are constantly told they are gay, or you better not be a faggot or dyke. Then the pygmalion effect takes hold. Everyone keeps telling me I'm gay, I must be gay.

>For the record. I'm a pretty wise, experienced brotha...
>Have studied sexuality extensively, and have the insight for
>keen reflection and introspection on my own experieces and
>those of people (straight and gay) near and dear to me. For
>example, I have a nephew (8?) who I think might be gay. I
>haven't mentioned it to him or his mother... but he's aware
>that there are many healthy ways people can express
>desire... and should we ever have that conversation about
>"birds and bees" or "b-boys and b-boys", I'll be sure to
>encourage him to think seriously about the consequences of
>sex (with whomever) and I'll try to instill in him some
>principled thinking about his choices. I could be wrong...
>but I also know that if I'm right, he might not have to grow
>up to be suicidal and tortured in the ways I was as a child
>who was told from day one that I was hellbound for desires I
>didn't ask for and can't change.
>
>I'm not gonna reply after this post. I get money and
>consultation fees for this kind of schooling at some of
>America's best universities. I can refer you to a few books
>if you want to challenge your box, homey. one of them would
>be my own: "Red Dirt Revival: a poetic memoir in 6
>Breaths"
>
Thanks for taking the time to reply.

------------------

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