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Topic subjectRE: Heck no *Edit*
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=22&topic_id=25574&mesg_id=25619
25619, RE: Heck no *Edit*
Posted by Nettrice, Wed Mar-16-05 07:52 PM
>>Duality is good/evil, love/hate, trust/fear, etc.
>i don't agree here. trust/mistrust. ?/fear. i don't what i
>would oppose to fear, maybe bravery? the concept of fear is
>open to subjective logic i think.

Perhaps...but I found a definition that relates to this discussion:

"(Fear is) the emotion of the ego, contrasted with love, the emotion given us by God; originates in the expected punishment for our sins, which our guilt demands; the resulting terror over what we believe we deserve leads us -- through the dynamics of denial and projection -- to defend ourselves by attacking others, which merely reinforces our sense of vulnerability and fear, establishing a vicious circle of fear and defense." - www.facim.org/acim/glossary.htm

In "The Path To Love" by Chopra (a good book BTW), this idea is expanded on. In this book ego-based love comes from fear while true love comes from a connection to the Divine, as well as to self. Benjamin Hoff writes about "The Age of Virtue" and "The Age of Separation." The more humans became focused on ego, the more materialistic, violent, etc. and further from God and nature. All of these things exist because we choose (free will). We can choose ego/fear or love or both, depending on the circumstances. This does not make us better than or more powerful than God, because we are merely a tiny part of a larger picture.

>We are limited in it's understanding, yet you pose an
>argument, based on nature as the core strength and order of
>government. Is that logical? Even though I agree with you
>about nature, as natural order. I do think, that we as human
>beings, have the potential and power to, use nature to our
>advantage if we would choose to.

And we also have potential to destroy ourselves and our world, not the universe. The only nature we have power over is ourselves...and the living beings that are connected to us. Species can die every day...we are no different.

>I don't see how prayer or meditation has anything to do with
>nature. For some, yes. For most, I don't think so.

This goes back to ego/fear vs love, especially intention. You can project from a place of fear and bad things will happen or you can project from a place of love and experience miracles. It's happened to me. That unexplainable, quantum phenomena can't be explain with logic or science...or can it? I don't know.

>There is much we cannot see that we think we see, and it's
>right before our eyes. Sounds to me, like wanting to connect
>with something beyond the physical, is like wanting to escape
>the body, which some believe occurs during death, or, out of
>body experiences. I don't doubt it's possible, but, we are
>here, as physical beings, in a physical world.

The physical world would not be here if it wasn't for pure energy, spirit, the ether, or whatever you want to call it. This is the "flow" of the universe and it goes beyond the physical. For lack of a better example, it explains why millions of people get up every day and live their lives, not just for the physical/material aspect of life.

>Duality comes from where? Can you show me how duality and the
>connection and communication with nature are related? I guess
>you need to define duality too. I hope I don't sound hostile,
>you always challenge and I dig that, so I apologize for any
>type of tone that may be offensive.

Duality represents the higher (spiritual) and lower (mental) aspects of consciousness held by an individual. The ego or fear-based vs love...and everything in between.

>Are you saying, that you have faith in
>human beings, but, that there is more to us, that is in
>nature, that we cannot see?

Yes. Nature is both spiritual and mental.

>If nature is the governing order. It is impossible to live
>without it.

It is not possible to live outside of the universe.

>Living in harmony, does not mean, that we
>are to be peaceful. Living in harmony, is to do as nature
>directs. And, I believe that we are on a path that is natural.
>Even animals live and die, as a result of, killing eachother.

What is it the we do that animals don't?