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Forum nameOkay Activist Archives
Topic subjectRE: More crackpots
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=22&topic_id=25270&mesg_id=25291
25291, RE: More crackpots
Posted by M2, Wed Apr-11-01 09:37 AM

Back in the fall of 99' Caddilac had developed a concept car called the Evoq...it was actually a damn good roadster. 0-60 in 5.0 seconds with a 4 speed automatic made it very competitive with the other roadsters out there.

Two problems though:

The car could easily be faster then a Corvette, after all the one they tested had a detuned engine. Which could cause some sort of internal brand issues, the Corvette is supposed to be the fastest GM model.

Materials: Fiberglass would be quickest to market, although Steel and Aluminum was the optimum choice...however the decision wasn't made by GM's designers....they had to talk to UAW as well as the Steel Unions....which would dictate the final material choice.

Actually, they just recently announced they were going to make the car....at the Corvette Factory in Bowling Green, Kentucky...I don't have any information yet on what the car is going to be made out of.

The thing that bothers me, is the Union having a say at all in what materials the car is made of. I don't think the workers should be put in danger, but agreements dictating that a certain % of various cars have to use steel and what not have to go.

It's no wonder that GM's 3800 series engine has been in service since the 60s, yes the engine has been modified dramatically...but it's the same push rod they've been using for the past 35 some odd years.

Anyway, I think we can agree that on BOTH sides the UAW and GM relationship is not healthy for either side. IMHO.

As for Toyota & GM's relationship, Toyota makes the Chevy Prism for GM...so each company's union issues are separate. Toyota also buys parts from GM for it's lexus brand (traction control systems, OnStar) but it's just a case of competitors implementing GM technology better the GM can.

BMW uses GM Automatic Transmisios

Toyota doesn't have layoffs because they can't make enough cars to meet demands, (neither can Honda) you can go and order certain models and wait the dealer will tell you that the car won't be coming off the assembly line for another 6 weeks.

The Japanese also have a different culture then the US, according to some they work people "to the bone", to be honest I'm not even sure the Japanese have Unions in Japan...and I know that they don't use Unions in the US. I went to the UAW home place and looked up the UAT region where the Marysville, Ohio plan is (where Honda manufactures the Honda Accord & Acura Tl/CL) they are not represented. Niether are BMW plans in South Carolina (where they make the BMW X-5)

But again, the coporate culture is different. The Japanese take pride in their cars, they take pride in their manufacturing process. They feel what's good for the company is good for them.

The reason the Japanese & Germans don't work with the Unions in the US, is because they don't want them getting their hands in their manufacturing processes. After all, superior manufacturing processes is the primary reason foreign cars are more dependable.

Mazda makes cars here as well, BUT Mazda is owned by Ford..and does use UAW workers...the quality of their cars has slipped and it's wiser to buy a Mazda made in Japan then in the US.


Well, they're laying off folks world wide aren't they? The new head of Chrysler in America, is well known for laying people off.

In any event, it's a different culture and I've always felt that the Unions in Germany have a greater level of synergy with the companies they work with. As in Japan there is more pride in their work, and they feel what's good for the company is good for them.

Overall, I think we can agree that the UAW/US Automaker relationship isn't good for either side or even the consumer. Both sides only care about their self interests, and there absoltutely no positive synergy between the two.

Furthermore, we should look at foreign manufactures who don't use Unions because they feel it would hurt them..but still pay their workers fairly as a clue that the Union isn't the great saviour it claims to be.

As for executives, I haven't worked in a car factory...nor do I care to. However, I do know that they're more people available who can do that kind of work (or are trained to) then high level middle managers and execs. You say that I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to autoworkers..maybe...but you for damn sure don't know what it takes be an exec, it's not some cushy job where you just push paper.

I work with upper managers and execs all the time, I see them coming in at 7 and leaving at 7. They're CEOs who have two secretaries, one works the 7-4 and another who works 4-11. It's not a simple "paper pushing job". With no workers they are no cars, but the impetus that helps generate the need to make those cars does not come from the workers.

Finally, I'd like to have this converstion again when you've had a couple of years working in Business at a high level. I admire your dedication to "help" the workers, but it's not as easy as the company not laying people off, and just forking over the cash they're "hording"...and you really just don't "get" the corporate side of things. They are a lot of issues related to Wall St., the Business Cycle, Sales Growth, (just to name a few) that you aren't taking into account.