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Topic subjectRE: let's get macy gray
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=22&topic_id=25270&mesg_id=25277
25277, RE: let's get macy gray
Posted by Expertise, Sun Apr-08-01 07:09 PM
>The Horatio Alger myth, to use
>language designed to pull your
>chain, is no more than
>one of the most potent
>of the opiate of the
>masses. Yes, in hayday
>of early American industrialization, America
>had a fair bit of
>social mobility, but those days
>are over. By whatever
>index you look at, America
>now has the least social
>mobility of any industrialized nation.
> People stay in the
>same income bracket they're born,
>they have the same level
>of education as their parents,
>they live as long as
>their parents did, etc..
>Before you come back with
>a "well, that's just the
>way of the world" argument,
>remember that in every Western
>European country and Japan, supposedly
>bastions of evil leftist thought,
>people now overcome those obstacles
>at a much higher freqency
>than they do in the
>US. I might also
>add, whatever social mobility we've
>had in the last 40
>years has had a lot
>to do with affirmative action,
>but now that that's been
>curtailed things will probably get
>even more bleak for the
>less fortunate.

Actually studies show that affirmative action actually helps out more minorities and women that are already in the upper and middle classes, and barely helps low income earning blacks.

I'll grant that social mobility as slown, sure. However that doesn't mean that there isn't opportunity for people to actually succeed. I think the opportunity is still there; however more factors, such as societal, cultural, and domestic factors that weigh in just as much as socioeconomic factors. As for socioeconomic factors themselves however, I feel it's common sense that the higher the standard of living gets the harder it is to become a high income earner. If you have $10 dollars, it makes it that much harder to make a million. But that doesn't mean it's not possible, only naive that everyone can/will do so.

>Name five. Really. Name
>five people who have fallen
>from millionaire status to renting
>on MLK Boulevard. Time
>in a white collar jail
>or having to move from
>a five million dollar house
>to a half a million
>dollar house doesn't really count,
>since bankruptcy laws in several
>states allow you to sink
>as much money into a
>house as you can without
>paying your creditors.

Actually, the bankruptcy laws were just revised. Millionaires wont be able to try to keep million dollar assets while having their debts erased.
Now I'm not saying they jump from a mansion to a ghetto, but the very practice of them filing bankrupt means they do not always have luck riding on their side and do fail at something, not to mention everything they own. Like I said however, it's an exception to the norm and it doesn't happen everyday.

>Look, as personal mantra I think
>this philosophy is ideal.
>Every individual should think they
>can rise above the bad
>around them and lead a
>fulfilling life. The question
>is, as a society can
>we help people do that?
> Can we make the
>playing field a little bit
>more level, so merit does
>rise the top? Because
>if you think that happens
>now, you're just ignorant.

We can. However I feel it should start with a reformation of cultural and spiritual ideals, not government. I dont believe you can simply throw money at a cause and think you can make some kind of positive impact.

>>But is that actually realistic more
>>often than not to the
>>"poor" in the US?
>>Sure, there are isolated spots
>>in this country in which
>>there are people that are
>>indeed in need of help,
>>such as Appalacia, but are
>>all poor seen in the
>>same standard?
>So do we give up on
>the people of Appalachia?

Where did I say give up on anyone?

>The following is stolen from a
>"This Modern World" cartoon: are
>you familiar with the credit
>card industry? No matter
>what your credit card rating,
>no matter what your ability
>to pay, so long as
>you're breathing they will issue
>you a credit card with
>a backbreaking interest fee and
>collect what they can when
>you can't pay. I'd
>agree with you that these
>people should be held accountable,
>except for the fact our
>education system is so god
>awful that I honestly don't
>think people understand what they're
>getting into. This says
>nothing about renting, layaway, and
>all the other wonderful devices
>capitalism has come up with
>to take money away from
>the poor and leave them,
>in the end, with nothing.

I dont think the education system can be held to blame for the fact that people spent more money than they could afford. Nor can I see how renting and layaway falls into the whole "money trap" for the poor, unless you've live in places where they have high costs of living, like New York or Cali.

>What's illusory is your reality.
>I think you're a good
>person, and you seem to
>be active, but it's obvious
>you've never ventured outside your
>shell (either geographically or mentally).
> Go volunteer at an
>AIDS shelter for two months
>and see if you still
>feel the same way.

AIDS shelter? What does an AIDS shelter have to do with discussing poverty?
As far as "venturing outside of my shell", I dunno what "shell" you are referring to, as I grew up in rural North Carolina, and very few people there were born with a silver spoon in their mouths. The town I spent my childhood was on the Outer Banks, and had less than 500 people in the county, and it only had one stoplight, and that was near the courthouse. Believe me, I know what poverty is, and I know a good part of it comes from societal and cultural traits exposed on the people and not as much of economic disparities.

New Quotes....

Fascist ethics begin ... with the acknowledgment that it is not the individual who confers a meaning upon society, but it is, instead, the existence of a human society which determines the human character of the individual. According to Fascism, a true, a great spiritual life cannot take place unless the State has risen to a position of pre-eminence in the world of man. The curtailment of liberty thus becomes justified at once, and this need of rising the State to its rightful position. - Mario Palmieri, "The Philosophy of Fascism" 1936

The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. - H.L. Mencken

When will the world learn that a million men are of no importance compared with one man? - Henry David Thoreau

"In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, 'Make us your slaves, but feed us.'" - Dosteovsky's Grand Inquisitor.

"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand

And always...my favorite....
Life is insensitive, and the truth can be highly offensive. To hide from either is to hide from the reality of life. Take comfort in the fact that I am an equal opportunity offender. You today. Someone else tomorrow. You have no Constitutional right not to be offended. - Neal Boortz