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Topic subjectNo music in schools..WTF?
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=22&topic_id=23590
23590, No music in schools..WTF?
Posted by colourboy, Fri Jul-14-00 06:39 AM
I mean whats the deal with all these schools takin there music and art programs out of schools or just not ever having them. In my mind I know music changes everything and it indeeds helps everyone in some form or fashion. And for children no matter the age is a wonderful teacher, sometimes I think better than other classes that are given in schools. I'm in Baltimore and harldy zero to no schools have cut the music program or just don't have one so supposibly to pay other teachers more so they can have more and better teachers. They say we have a need for over 400 teachers in our public schools by this September. So again, we will have some non qualified people coming in tryin to teach classes they know nothing about. So with that in mind I'm doing something called THE MOVEMENT and one of our main goals is to put music back in school, and I need your opinions and comments to help go about this and to you know put some ideas in my head. So I can hit em harder. I know this is a problem around the country and thats why I must take part of this. So pleas drop ya comments or whatever here or you can check me at colourboy@blackplanet.com and drop it on me right there. But please drop this on me everyone who cares and loves music. Peace and GOD bless.
23591, School Reform
Posted by MisterGrump, Fri Jul-14-00 06:48 AM
If a school district is trying to boost test score, as has been the case in many, time needs to be taken out so that the students can "PREPARE" for these exams. That means devoting more time to these exams by studying THE EXAM and what is being tested and diverting time away from other subject areas such as music and art.

If you want to teach comprehension do it using History texts and ask THE RIGHT QUESTIONS so that the ability to do so is in alignment to learning another subject.

Marinate on that!!!!!!!!!!!

Ju-LIE QUOTATION for the Week************************

-----Doc Squeege

23592, Do You believe in High culture?
Posted by k_orr, Fri Jul-14-00 06:52 AM
That's what the vast majority of music in schools is. You don't have classes on negro spirituals, gospel songs, how to do the new dances, rhyming, djing, production, country, rock and roll.

The classes teach you to become members of choirs, orchestras. They force sheet music and sight reading on you, as the defacto way to learn music.

Music in schools is another way for the elites in our society to indoctrinate young minds into what they should aspire to.

k. orr
23593, Hold Up!!!!
Posted by MisterGrump, Fri Jul-14-00 07:01 AM
>That's what the vast majority of
>music in schools is.
>You don't have classes on
>negro spirituals, gospel songs, how
>to do the new dances,
>rhyming, djing, production, country, rock
>and roll.


>The classes teach you to become
>members of choirs, orchestras.
>They force sheet music and
>sight reading on you, as
>the defacto way to learn

Marinate on that!!!!!!!!!!!

Ju-LIE QUOTATION for the Week************************

-----Doc Squeege

23594, RE: Hold Up!!!!
Posted by guest, Sat Jul-15-00 02:32 PM
yo...music is probably the best thing a student can have in school. not only is it shown that students in band, orchestra, or choir perform better on tests and overall in school, but it adds something to school that no one can take from you. being in a music program allows you to focus your time into ish outside of institutional walls. sure, there may be things you HAVE TO attend or practices that are mandatory to perform...but what does that bring? responsibility. i personally know many kids my age that could've turned into a drop out...but they stuck it out because the music program gave them a reason to be in school. i came from a poor ass community in west texas that was filled with your everyday "gangstas". cats were droppin out left and right....and the majority wound up in jail. but the only one's who weren't...were those involved some how in music. i can assure you that if i wasn't involved with music in schoo...i wouldn't be typin this shit up...because i wouldn't have any of the benefits i have now from continuing school. but you may ask what that has to do with school performance. the thing is...if you wanna be a part of the performances...you gotta keep the grades up to be eligible. not to mention...you have 180 other kids depending on you to be a part of the performances. so you step it up and make the grades. music means so much more than being able to play by ear. those that can are just gifted. but music offers so much to your life. it may look worthless at a particular level...but once older and wiser...people appreciate so much how the music programs were able to help their lives. getting rid of yet another area in school is not the answer...you're only limiting a student's imagination and conforming everyone to be the same. if anything...bring in MORE music into schools...maybe some big band jazz, some acoustic guitar lessons...anything you'd like. because the more you teach a child...the more opportunities open up for them to realize what they really want to do. if john coltrane didn't have his saxophone...would you even know about him? hell naw...cuz he probably could've died 20 years before from drug overdoses. and then you might ask...where would hip hop be without that HUGE jazz influence. where would hip hop go if schools stopped teaching music? there wouldn't be shit...because those same cats rippin the mics would be somewhere else...and you'd have no music to nod your head to. hmmm.....then what? we'd all be insane mofos cuz we wouldn't have that musical release of hip hop to guide us through life and inspire us. damn...not such a pretty place without music is it? music is just another door for our people to express themselves and maybe make a dollar off of it. music is opportunity. so don't take opportunity from our people. peace and humptiness forever....

move.rwk...also known as mayhem

========words i live by day after day===========
"mentally I live lavishly/I cherish the heredity/That's preparin me to be a/ REVOLUTIONARY TILL THEY BURY ME" - talib kweli

"and let your light keep shinin and remember the past/ BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY, WE'LL BE FREE AT LAST!" - gift of gab

"cuz my street style/ and intelligence level/ make me more than just an angry rebel" - guru

"i just want to innovate and stimulate minds/travel the world and penetrate the times/ESCAPE THROUGH RHYTHMS IN SEARCH OF PEACE AND WISDOM" - common

"can i get a response from all the REVOLUTIONARIES up in this piece?" - talib kweli
================end quotes here===================
23595, RE: Hold Up!!!!
Posted by colourboy, Sun Jul-16-00 10:41 AM
yeah I feel ya mayhem for droppin that on here thats how I feel exactly and I can't let this situation fall the cracks. Thanx and I hope more come in and drop something.
23596, One more to this...
Posted by blue23, Mon Jul-17-00 06:57 AM
Music in schools is fundamental. Not everyone is on the path to education = career = success. Some people NEED a reason to be there and like someone further up said music classes provide that. I know cats that would skip math class but would never cut art because they wanted to put in work on their portfolio. Different paths. I do disagree with the person trying to dis schools for forcing sheet music and organization on music students. Not everyone is D. Just like not everyone is Mike J. The rest of us need lay up drills to work on our fundamentals. I agree whole heartedly that the school music programs could be much more open minded but let's not get so anti-estab that we push to "free" ourselves from learning fundamentals from which we can build into better improvisation.

On top of all this I would like to add also that education starts in the home and if it hadn't been for my parents encouraging and nurturing all my exploration of many talents I may not have found them at all. Altho Pops was pissed when I wanted to quit baseball to write and make paintings... But we can't depend on the struggling school system to educate and encourage our seeds that falls into our own laps and we cannot forget that. I'm all for working within the system but we have to examine the home program right along with our criticism of the current situation in schools.

23597, RE: One more to this...
Posted by k_orr, Tue Jul-18-00 04:30 AM
>Music in schools is fundamental.

Like Christian values? What do you mean by fundamental?

>Not everyone is on the
>path to education = career
>= success.

And most of those folks end up broke. Hence the term starving artist.

Some people
>NEED a reason to be

If providing for yourself and a future family is not reason enough, they don't really need to be there. They do not have their priorites straight.

Are the members of Okay Activist more down with teaching kids to play the clarinet (cause we're talking about public schools), than teaching them how to write effective communication?

Am I the only one that lives in the real world?

and like someone further
>up said music classes provide
>that. I know cats
>that would skip math class
>but would never cut art
>because they wanted to put
>in work on their portfolio.

We're talking about music.

> Different paths. I
>do disagree with the person
>trying to dis schools for
>forcing sheet music and organization
>on music students.

So you're okay with Columbus Day and Occam's razor?

What I am saying is, teaching orchestral style music in choirs and bands is another way that the elite power structure controls your mind.

Any turntablists in this piece? When's the last time you thought A-trak's scratch notation as a good idea for turntablism? Often those things provide more of a barrier than an aid to learning music.

> I agree whole heartedly
>that the school music programs
>could be much more open

No doubt. But again, music just like sports, is really only for a small percentage of folks at school.

but let's not get
>so anti-estab that we push
>to "free" ourselves from learning
>fundamentals from which we can
>build into better improvisation.

What are you talking about? The establishment, particularly in regard to minority students, is the problem. When's the last time you looked at curriculum, and asked yourself what could the student gain from it?

>On top of all this I
>would like to add also
>that education starts in the

Yeah, but how many of the parents in our communites know anything about what children need to be taught? Ask your typical minority parent about what their children need to learn, and they will invariably say computers. But then you ask them do they have a computer in those home. Some might say yes, but most will say no. But of those that say yes, do they actually know anything about that box in Jamal's room?

and if it hadn't
>been for my parents encouraging
>and nurturing all my exploration
>of many talents I may
>not have found them at

You are not typical. For effective encouraging and nurturing the parents have to know what is going on. Many stay at home parents don't know, much less the typical middle class minority family of 2 parents working. Even college educated minority parents aren't always well equipped when it comes to planning for and augmenting their childrens education.

>But we
>can't depend on the struggling
>school system to educate and
>encourage our seeds that falls
>into our own laps and
>we cannot forget that.

Are you going to devote 8 hours a day for 18 years to educate your child?

Think realistically.

>I'm all for working within
>the system but we have
>to examine the home program
>right along with our criticism
>of the current situation in

So you suggest we return to the days of landed privilege. Many 2 parent/2 income homes often do not make enough to get by, so how would they then give up one job to focus on children's education?


k. orr
23598, RE: Hold Up!!!!
Posted by k_orr, Tue Jul-18-00 03:56 AM
>>That's what the vast majority of
>>music in schools is.


Read above. Vast Majority.

k. orr
23599, Aiight
Posted by MisterGrump, Tue Jul-18-00 04:31 AM
47% of CPS students are African/African-American
37$ are Latino

53 out of 71 high schools in the CPS System have majority African-American student populations.

Define majority.

Marinate on that!!!!!!!!!!!

Ju-LIE QUOTATION for the Week************************

"It's spelled D-O-O-K. Not the other way"

23600, RE: Aiight
Posted by k_orr, Tue Jul-18-00 07:19 AM
>47% of CPS students are African/African-American
>37$ are Latino
>53 out of 71 high schools
>in the CPS System have
>majority African-American student populations.
>Define majority.

Are we specifically talking about CPS schools, or American schools in general? When we talk about the music programs in the the american education system, most of them are focusing on "classical" music. It is a pretty progressive school to have a jazz band.

The fact that CPS schools teach music from a non-standard "Western Culture is superior" ideology is a departure from the norm. You got lucky, you went to an exception.

It still doesn't address my point though. Which is the vast majority of school music education programs reinforce white is right. The fact that so many folks here argue for it, is only confirmation that it worked pretty damn well.

k. orr
23601, Actually
Posted by MisterGrump, Tue Jul-18-00 07:32 AM
Schools in Kansas City as well as St Louis use a "progrssive" apporach when teaching music. It all boils down to is the make up of the school. I apologize if I have NEVER seen a predominantly black high school's marching band NOT modeled or influenced by a HBCU.

Shit!!! Even them motherfuckers from "American Pie" were singing Marvin and Tammy for choral competition!!!!!!

Marinate on that!!!!!!!!!!!

Ju-LIE QUOTATION for the Week************************

"It's spelled D-O-O-K. Not the other way"

23602, RE: Do You believe in High culture?
Posted by guest, Mon Jul-17-00 09:50 AM
I guess I never thought of it that way. I've been in music/band/wind ensemble/ marching band since I was 9 years old. Now, I'm a month away from twenty and still playing, for churches/weddings/conferences. However, I am NOT a music major because I don't want to teach, I want to perform. There's hardly any money if you don't make it to a philharmonic! I play flute...do you know how many good flute players are out there? Secondly, if I were to teach, I would get no money either. So, I'm not sure if anyone tried to push me to be a poor music teacher or unsuccessful performer. I'm not sure that our society taught us that musicians were elite and high class. Pop music is where the money is, if you get a hit.

"I'm so bored of cowards who say what they want, then they can't handle." Bjork, 5 Years
23603, RE: Do You believe in High culture?
Posted by colourboy, Tue Jul-18-00 03:00 AM
Well dobopwee its not for the money if you really love music like that. I mean if you only doing now for the music then maybe you should rethink doing music. People that do it for the money are always the one to be the ones who turn music into something worst to what it is. They add on messages that are not true . May be I got you wrond so if I did please reply back. And if I did mistake for something else then forgive me and please do explain.
23604, RE: Do You believe in High culture?
Posted by guest, Tue Jul-18-00 08:37 AM
No, no, no! I LOVE music, please do not misunderstand me :) My point was that our culture does NOT look at musicians as high class and elite, while the original post-er said that society wishes to force on us what they think is high class/elite. I was focusing on the money to make my point that even the best performers don't get paid squat. The post-er's theory doesn't follow through.
Also, everyone needs money to survive. I used to think I could live on love, my love for music, and while that's entirely possible, I cannot take that chance. I have others depending on me. No, not kids, but my parents. They trust in me to have a solid means of income, so I can help them out. They completely support me and my music, but I can see where they're coming from. There's plenty of performers out there that have their degrees.

"I'm so bored of cowards who say what they want, then they can't handle." Bjork, 5 Years
23605, RE: Do You believe in High culture?
Posted by k_orr, Tue Jul-18-00 04:06 AM
> I'm not sure that
>our society taught us that
>musicians were elite and high
>class. Pop music is where
>the money is, if you
>get a hit.

But you get no respect as a pop-musician. No one is rushing to include Britney's oop's I did it again in their music classes. For the people that run corporations and school boards, pop music (and every other music derived from the Afro-American experience) is something they almost rail against.

Classical music is indoctrination, pure and simple. I'm not saying it's bad, but the reason you hear Barber of Seville or Wagner during cartoons is because WB and others wanted to introduce it to children.

There are some good arguments for keeping music in schools. Some of which you cats mentioned. But would you have an orchestra class in place of an AP math or english class?

I'm thinking no. But maybe my priorities are different from yours.

k. orr
house of phat beats
23606, RE: Do You believe in High culture?
Posted by guest, Tue Jul-18-00 08:42 AM
Actually, I put music way above my other classes in secondary school. But you are right about pop musicians getting no respect. Do they really deserve it? J/K :)I have no desire to be pop, nor will I ever even THINK about being pop, despite the money they get.
Music in schools: something that must be there. In 7th grade our advanced band did a performance for the school board to show our love for music in schools. We saved the music program in our district. I still believe in it now.

"I'm so bored of cowards who say what they want, then they can't handle." Bjork, 5 Years
23607, RE: Do You believe in High culture?
Posted by k_orr, Tue Jul-18-00 09:24 AM
>Actually, I put music way above
>my other classes in secondary
>school. But you are right
>about pop musicians getting no
>respect. Do they really deserve
>it? J/K :)

Well I don't particularly care for a lot of Top 40, but that's on a strictly enjoyment level, vs like music critic mode. But when I say pop music, I mean in the original sense of the word, meaning popular, and it's connotation being of the common people, as opposed to the upper crust. So Pop music encompasses fugazi, slug and anticon, ani di franco, as well as the Back Street Boys and Ricky Martin. And in general among the upper crust types, the folks who write curriculums and run school boards, it's all low culture. In their opinion, the music is not refined.

And that is my major beef with folks wanting to teach "inner city" kids the violin. Or the kind of folks who think music in education is fundamental. 9 times out of 10 they aren't thinking that Johnny's music teacher should be breaking down the Chronic for it's influence on West Coast hip hop musical production. I think it is important to teach folks about things that they already "know", but don't really.

The ghetto kid that can rock a mean piccolo is somehow more acceptable than the ghetto kid who outbeat box Rahzel. Music happens in places other than concert halls, UIL recitals, and operas. But if you look at the majority of musical education for elementary and secondary students, it's aimed at reaffirming western ways of thinking about music. Not that western ways are bad necessarily, but it is bad that it is the default.

>In 7th grade
>our advanced band did a
>performance for the school board
>to show our love for
>music in schools.

Who organized this, the students themselves, or your instructor/band leader?

k. orr
house of phat beats
23608, RE: Do You believe in High culture?
Posted by guest, Wed Jul-19-00 04:07 PM
We (the students) heard about how the school district was considering removing the music program from our teacher and parents. I don't remember much, that was almost ten years ago, but, I'm pretty sure it was a joint effort. We didn't want to see it go, we loved our teacher, and we loved music. (We had a very good music program going on there).
"I'm so bored of cowards who say what they want, then they can't handle." Bjork, 5 Years
23609, RE: Do You believe in High culture?
Posted by colourboy, Tue Jul-18-00 03:06 AM
Totally not true, some of the best musicians that you probably got on your shelf have went through it. To say that music is everything in you and around you. Do you actually know what music does to peoples body and mind. Whether its Dmx,Hot boys, Mos def, Ras kass, Dr. Dre, COmp flow, Nina simone, Charlie parker, Yolanda adams, and many more. They move ya body and change minds and at times turn peoples lives. Just imagine where you would be without music,man come on and recognize.
23610, RE: Do You believe in High culture?
Posted by k_orr, Tue Jul-18-00 04:10 AM
>Totally not true, some of the
>best musicians that you probably
>got on your shelf have
>went through it.

Most of the people you mention are not being taught in the vast majority of schools. I don't remember any of my teachers breaking out Poor Righteous Teacher's Easy Star (tells you when I was in high school).

> They move ya
>body and change minds and
>at times turn peoples lives.

If they do it for the better, they also do it for the worst.

>Just imagine where you would
>be without music,man come on
>and recognize.

Recognize what? Algebra and History, (even if it's his story) is more important than music.

k. orr

23611, you tawkin to ME?!?!
Posted by gemini, Tue Jul-18-00 08:41 AM
Well, well, well, the topic that you've just addressed applies to me because I work for one of the "high culture" organizations that you speak of...............

I just want to say that music programs do a lot more than "indoctrinate young minds" about classical music. I work for one of the larges orchestras (and oldest) in the country, and yes, it's "high culture" to the max, but to assume that we're only in the schools (PUBLIC schools at that) to "indoctrinate young minds" about "what they SHOULD be listening to" does the program itself a disservice.

You make the assumption that music education programs ONLY use or explore classical music, and that assumption is incorrect. In fact, last year, there was a world music unit in our curriculum, and we also collaborate with Jazz@Lincoln Center. Duke Ellington is just as much a part of our curriculum as Dvorak or Mendhelsson. And there is also an entire unit on Harlem and it's relelvance in terms of music and NYC.

Music education programs, and all arts programs are essential to the education of young people (PARTICULARLY young people of color) because it gives kids OPTIONS and ALTERNATIVE ways to interpret curriculum, address issues of identity and community, and also, in my experience, to explore alternative ways of BEING in the world. Regardless of the "type" of music or art that is being explored.

To assume that an organization ("high culture" or not) is involved with young people only to "indoctrinate" them to classical music is a huge mistake. Music education programs and all arts education programs in public schools can be a wonderful supplement to the beauraucratic, "assesment based" learning that goes on in public schools. They help children use their imagination, their creativity, and interpretation skills in ways that can help nurture talent, improve reading and writing skills, the list goes on.

So please don't make such statements, because it really undermines the hard work that a lot of us do on behalf of children. Thanks.

"Y'all don't believe fat meat greasy!!"-my mama

"Unhappy People Smell Like Chitlins"
23612, Yeah I'm tawking to you
Posted by k_orr, Tue Jul-18-00 09:41 AM

>You make the assumption that music
>education programs ONLY use or
>explore classical music,

And up until the push for "diversity" wasn't that the case.
>Music education programs, and all arts
>programs are essential to the
>education of young people (PARTICULARLY
>young people of color) because
>it gives kids OPTIONS and
>ALTERNATIVE ways to interpret curriculum

Interesting perspective. Could you provide some examples?

>To assume that an organization ("high
>culture" or not) is involved
>with young people only to
>"indoctrinate" them to classical music
>is a huge mistake.

what is there motivation then? I know why Nike sponsors the basketball team, and Ford donates a mustang to the senior prom, so why is the "Philharmonic" at Lincoln high?

>education programs and all arts
>education programs in public schools
>can be a wonderful supplement
>to the beauraucratic, "assesment based"
>learning that goes on in
>public schools.

Supplement perhaps, but the real problem with schools lies in the assesment based learning. Actually that's just one of the problems. But we can address those in a later post.

They help
>children use their imagination, their
>creativity, and interpretation skills in
>ways that can help nurture
>talent, improve reading and writing
>skills, the list goes on.


>So please don't make such statements,
>because it really undermines the
>hard work that a lot
>of us do on behalf
>of children. Thanks.

Most people don't know what "you" do. I need to make those statements so that you can educate others.

I am intrigued. Would you say that your org, represents the majority of what is being taught in music classrooms today?

k. orr

23613, look at the population of public schools............
Posted by gemini, Tue Jul-18-00 10:34 AM
Public schools are filled with children of color. So our curriculum necessarily has to cater to children of color.

If we were as evil/elitist/opportunistic as you make us (arts education programs) out to be, wouldn't we be all up in the private schools where all the "good" "well behaved" children are?

think about it: if folk were really interested in brainwashing young people of color about Eurocentric values, why not just hit up the private schools?

Your point about the push for "diversity" ushering in an "inclusive" curriculum is well taken, I just don't think you have enough ACCURATE information about music education programs (particularly those in PUBLIC schools) to make the assumptions/assessment that you're making.

Also, you place value on breaking down, "The Chronic" in a music education program, and offered it as an example of a "legitimate" approach to young people of color, but I still don't understand the usefulness of DE-VALUING teaching kids about all kinds of music. Particularly the forms of music that influenced and continue to influence hip-hop. Your assesment seems a bit limited. If you love music, you love music, so why would you advocate for a limited view/perspective on the power of music? I mean, we all love and revere hip-hop, but not to the ends of de-valuing other musical forms...........

"Y'all don't believe fat meat greasy!!"-my mama

"Unhappy People Smell Like Chitlins"
23614, RE: look at the population of public schools............
Posted by k_orr, Wed Jul-19-00 04:45 AM
>Public schools are filled with children
>of color. So our curriculum
>necessarily has to cater to
>children of color.

Depends on the school. Often schools full of colored children are in resource poor districts. White flight has eroded the tax base for many public schools that teach minority children. The result is usually administrators cutting out music, arts, extra-curriculars, and reducing schools to the events that make money or at least pay for themselves. In Texas that would be high school football.

>If we were as evil/elitist/opportunistic as
>you make us (arts education
>programs) out to be, wouldn't
>we be all up in
>the private schools where all
>the "good" "well behaved" children

Those jobs were taken by the kids with connections or 4.0's. I've known a # of education majors, and the ones with better GPA's were going for the bucks. If they made a difference along the way, so be it. Well education majors aren't as cut and dried as that, but many were not as interested in making a difference. The fact that you are not in public schools doesn't really tell me anything about your altruism.

And with respect to private schools, they are often refuges for the bad rich kids who got thrown out of their local district. But that's all besides the point.

>think about it: if folk were
>really interested in brainwashing young
>people of color about Eurocentric
>values, why not just hit
>up the private schools?

By and large the majority of children of color are not in Private schools. And folks are interested in brainwashing young people of color. It happens on the regular.

>Your point about the push for
>"diversity" ushering in an "inclusive"
>curriculum is well taken, I
>just don't think you have
>enough ACCURATE information about music
>education programs (particularly those in
>PUBLIC schools) to make the
>assumptions/assessment that you're making.

I'm willing to read any studies you have.

>Also, you place value on breaking
>down, "The Chronic" in a
>music education program, and offered
>it as an example of
>a "legitimate" approach to young
>people of color,

I would not call it legitimate, but I would call it an alternative. Still dissecting musical trends might be beyond the grasp of elementary school students.

> but I
>still don't understand the usefulness
>of DE-VALUING teaching kids about
>all kinds of music.

I think of it in terms of valuing. It's not there is an anti-music coaltion, trying to get people to stop all sorts of music in the classroom. Often times, it's school districts trying to decide to keep the girl's soccer team or new band uniforms. There are competing interests. I would argue for more emphasis on the core curriculum than on extra-curriculars.

Personally I believe that extra-curriculars often reinforce the core. And in some cases it is the extra curriculars that make a person go to school in the first place. But we shouldn't be praising band or football for keeping Johnny in school. We should be addressing why school is not fulfilling him.

>the forms of music that
>influenced and continue to influence
>hip-hop. Your assesment seems a
>bit limited. If you love
>music, you love music, so
>why would you advocate for
>a limited view/perspective on the
>power of music?

But isnt't that what we are talking about. I am arguing that the majority of music education is centered around Western understanding of music. What I want would be a paradigm shift. Where as I think I am hearing an argument for you for inclusion of "world" music. I think we should be accomodating western tradition, but focusing on "world" music.

I'm not sure if that is clear.

I mean,
>we all love and revere
>hip-hop, but not to the
>ends of de-valuing other musical

I like soul, R&B, jazz, soca, calypso, and reggae too. None of which are mainstays of musical education.

k. orr
23615, RE: No music in schools..WTF?
Posted by guest, Wed Jul-19-00 05:39 PM
Quincy Jones makes a point that the United States never supported it artists even when they were being lavished on Europe. He holds the highest honor given to an artist in France, but he has not been recognized here and he has been in the business for at least 50 years. So, we have no music programs in the schools because our governments and states feel that it is a waste of money. If you teach music history, then you will be giving lessons on Black History because our music defines us and our movement in this country,
a country that hates us, and our black children.

If it wasn't for the arts, then I would not have developed an interest in the sciences; I hurts me when I hear kids boo B.B. King when he comes to play at some high school, or think that Puffy is a 'musician'. Artist don't take credit for other artists shit. Europeans treat jazz like classical is treated here, but what are we giving our children?

I noticed that ?uest make a point about the attitudes in Europe. Just don't give up on the real fans. We are here supporting all of our own, but we have been conditioned to treat are artists like they are disposable because we have no appreciation for the true masters.
23616, RE: No music in schools..WTF?
Posted by colourboy, Mon Jul-24-00 12:03 PM
thanks to all that replied, I now have more of a understand and your replys will definitly help me out. And another thing THE MOVEMENT isn't all about puttin music back and schools but being able to give us a better education in all classes and subjects. SO if any one has anymore comments or questions hit me up at colourboy@blackplanet and i'll holla back. once again thanx.