Thats what some guy had the nerve to say to my girlfriend. Its immediately insulting and demeaning and hurtful but nonetheless something about that statement begs for us to believe it. I mean truthfully i think there is some imperical data that would substantiate this statement* but we try not to think about it.

Well when somebody tries to engage you in the discussion in the confines of your office space thats not so easy.


My girlfriend was at first shocked and shaken to hear such ideas but immediately ended the convo. Of course the guy needed to explain himself but when you direct demeaning ideas that dennegrate the community of the person your talking to- dont expect to be given the opportunity. as my girl sees it- the bottom line is whether its true or not- whether there are statistics behind it, think about this...

...what are you trying to prove?

*the guy eventually reffered to "drop out rates" and "graduation stats" but admitted that he had no evidence to provide or to refer to


My problem of course extends beyond that. My argumentative nature leads me to believe that this type of idea is easy to dismantle and if any of you are in a position were this nonsense is projected you should be equipped to break it down and whoever thinks or agrees with the idea.

lets get it on.


K

The immediate and obvious problem is that we have absolutely no clear means of defining what or who is a "Jew" - and to some extent who should be considered "Black."

"Jews are more educated than Blacks"

Even though some statistics may back this up the statistic can easily be disputed by simple logic and the truth of certain historical events go further to diminish this very demeaning logic.

Quite simply- what about Black Jews? Not only are there quite a few of them but my girlfriend was raised by Black hebrews that relocated to Liberia in the early 70's. The idea that this guy said this to someone raised by Black Hebrews is preposterous.

Even if one precludes that they mean those who's national origins supposedly define them moreso as jews they must admit that several strands of jewish ethnic origins extend into lineage of Blacks- whether or not Caucasian Jews are the more natural kind of the culture is a debate that has raged for centuries. Maybe but signifying that in the conversation you'll gain more ground in that direction but even then you're admitting that your statistics dont mean shit cuz you havent even considered a sizeable segment of the Black AND Jewish community- and this guy probably didnt even know they existed.

In any case the idea is easily demonstrated to be vague and presumptuous and as such it is insulting and offensive to ask anyone to abide by its errant logic- especially if it can only demonstrate negative impressions - and false ones at that - of the person your talking to.

If any Jew believe that Jews are more educated than Blacks they are quite obviously wrong and I daresay such statements prove that implicitly.

K

blacks know a lot of information that is not taught in school & you can't get a degree for.

Educated doesn't mean smart or intelligent.

His point ultimately was that his idea of Blacks being less educated is a good explanation as to why Blacks dont vote as much as Jews - not only did he not have any statistical evidence of that to provide but he couldnt possibly provide something to substantiate the causal relationship between education and voting. Plenty of uneducated people vote- plenty of educated people dont.

K

Sammy Davis Jr is all i can think of

is Whoopi Goldberg Jewish?

thats the big one

is that what you sayin, K?

If soooooo.......
I'm down - which is how I end up in most of these aurguments here at OKay Player.....

I think it's every consceintious person's responsibility to combat this kind of ignorance. When confronted by white people and asked "what to do" - I say CORRECT your freinds....start in your own circle. I am committed/obliged to do the same - cuz I ain go ask you to do nuttin' that I myself am not committed to do.

Live from the Shoe Sto'
NuShooz
I,I, I Can't Wait!

Even if it were true (and who knows, maybe it is), that would tell us nothing without the larger context. How about comparing data among people offered the same opportunities? Problem is, opportunities don't exist in a vacuum. So if you could create a statistical sample in which people were starting from a level playing field, and then you were to compare results, you might have some kind of interesting data. Otherwise, all you have is a statistic, which can be manipulated to mean whatever the statistician wants.

I get so aggravated when people cite statistics to back up a proposition (implied or explicit) that has nothing to do with the numbers they're quoting.

Peace.

This guys made this statement and had no such imperical data to refer to. It his presumption that this is truth that is most insulting- even if the statistics back it up (and as you demonstrate even then they wouldnt necessarily suffice as evidence) he only made this statement on the basis of opinion.

Jews are more educated than Blacks

Please people- dont let people get away with this type of shit- even if you believe what they're saying is correct, ESPECIALLY if you believe what they're saying is correct.

understand now that it most certainly is not.

K

...she knows things. personally I think anytme someone includes the statement "statistics show" (or something similar), you should take what they say with a grain of salt because EVRYBODY knows how faulty such results can be. you can pretty much find a way to generate statistics to prove ANYTHING if you know what you're doing.

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not the part about listening to me (although I appreciate that darlin :*) but the part about the same statistic can mean whatEVER you want it to mean.

Here's an example. STATISTICS show that over the course of years, the percentage of Black high school graduates who attend college has increased.

This number tells us nothing. Nothing. Break it down. It is the tiniest little statistical fact. But some folks have taken this statistic (and a few like it) to mean that affirmative action in schools is no longer necessary. Myself, if I were going to form an opinion about what that statistic means in a vacuum, my opinion would be that it means that affirmative action works, so we'd better keep it around. Same number, two entirely different results.

The single most important thing about any statistical measure are the assumptions that underlie it. Don't ever be fooled by numbers.

Learning to say "so what?" helped me a lot, too.

Peace.

dah.....

It's called manipulating data - wow! look! I actually got to apply/use one of my undergraduate usless political science terms..... $25,000 later......
Here's a statistic: 5 out of every 7 college graduates struggle (initially) to repay their student loans.....

Tangent? YES!

Live from the Book Sto'
NuShooz
I,I, I Can't Wait!

You can't relate Education to race simply because
each person's will to learn is diferent and is
sometimes due to the opportunities present!!

The more opportunities you beleive you have, the
stronger your "will" would be concerning education!!
And Vice Versa!!

THERE IS NO ONE RACE SMARTER THAN ANY OTHER EXCEPT
THE ORIGINAL RACE, THAT WHICH STEMMED ALL OTHERS!!

LET IT BE KNOWN!!!!

Peace

:-)Ski:-(™

how's everybody doin'?

These situations are best responded to with a word:


"So?"

or it's phrase brother "so the fuck what!?"

Statistics don't mean shit unless they apply to something real and tangible. So let's pretnd Janey's situtation (level playing field, equivalent sample, etc.).

This dude that originally made the comment still has no point. Because if Mongolians are more "educated" (do they mean "intelligent?") than Pygmies...

WE'RE STILL LEFT WITH: "so?"

that in and of itself says nothing, and is pointless research.


MAD PROPS to whoever posted questions

What is "jew" in this statistic
what is "black" in this statistic
what is "educated"

statstics are crap, because you can make a statistic for anything you want that is scientifically valid. ANYTHING. I could "prove" tomorrow that Nazi's have disproportionately small penises, and it would be a valid study. And even though that's true ;) it still doesn't mean anything.

I could "prove" tomorrow that republicans rape their girlfriends, and it wouldn't mean anything.

I could "prove" that I am a diseased escaped mental patient who experiences latent pedophilia, but it wouldn't mean anything.

We can compile "scientifically valid" statistics for anything. STATISTICS ARE BULLSHIT.

If one is going to prove a point, then prove a point, but a statistic doesn't do it.

So am I less "ecuated" than a "jew" (though perhaps I am one in this study...) that hasn't SAID anything yet.

The proverbial question:

SO!?

Did he just finish reading the Bell Curve or something?




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and also statistics are one big lie. Trust me, statistics can be manipulated to say whatever you want