>>i'm do not agree on the
>>constant money fixation of hip
>>hop, but i'm not surprised
>>by it .... once something
>>gets even remotely popular in
>>this country, it always falls
>>victim to capitalist goals of
>>greed and money,
>
>Hip hop has always been about
>paper. Walking with a
>Panther, LL Cool J is
>rocking a Moet Bottle.
>
>Cover to Rebel without a Pause,
>Chuck D and the posse
>in front of some American
>Luxury Cars.
>
>Run DMC names their adidas sneakers
>after cadilacs.
>


that's true, money has always been an issue, but you don't think that it began to get focued on more intensely when record companies started getting into the act? the album covers that you mentioned are a long way from the pixel pixel no limit and cash money covers ... and rakim's flaunts of ice and money are a far cry from some of stuff around today ... like boodah said in one of the earlier posts, more balance is needed ...



> we have
>>a history of making money
>>off of art, most of
>>the time throwing the true
>>essence of the art to
>>the wayside .... i don't
>>like it, but it was
>>destined to happen to hip
>>hop once groups started movin
>>serious units ...
>
>Plenty of the so-called righteous groups
>sold more records to white
>kids than black kids and
>brown kids. As a
>result, everybody started to rock
>leather medallions. And when
>the fad played out, so
>did the nationalism.
>

i don't understand how this corresponds to what i said ... i do agree that many of the "conscious" groups sold alot to white kids (i.e. "fight the power"), but i don't understand where you're going with this ...



>>imo, the only way that it
>>can't happen is if hip
>>hop remained what it originated
>>as .. an artform celebrated
>>and practiced by people in
>>mostly urban communities simply for
>>the love of that art
>
>I don't know what urban community
>you are from, but no
>one now or then was
>doing hip hop for the
>love. You forget that
>Kool Herc was getting payed
>to do those parties.
>He wasn't inspired by some
>mystery ghetto altruism. Watch
>Wildstyle, they are about ho's
>and getting pissy. Fools
>came out rocking Derby's and
>tommy guns.


aight, well i'm not gonna front like i was there since i'm only 20, so most of what i know about that period is from talking with people who actively participated and reading books ... from what i understand, for the most part people treated it something new and fun ... they didn't think it was gonna last and blowup to this level, is was just a new way to have fun and get paid as you stated ... perhaps i overstated when i said that they did it SIMPLY for the love of the art, because it wasn't even considered in art back then, just something to do while hanging out at a party ...


>
>>... simply to have fun
>>and / or express one's
>>feelings on a certain subject
>>.. once it went from
>>the streets to the stage,
>>corporations got involved, and yada
>>yada yada ...
>
>Corporation's don't have anything to do
>it. They only ride
>the wave of what is
>really going on.
>

hmmm ... you don't think that they encouraged it though? i wouldnt say they don't have ANYTHING to do with, i think that's too strong of a statement ... you are right that they are not at the root of the problem cause they are simply offering an outlet, but that does not make it right ... and yes, that is the nature of companies in america to ride the wave of popularity and then when something else comes along, drop it and move on ...


>>this is one of the reasons
>>why i prefer lesser known
>>artists within hip hop ...
>>groups such as the alkaholiks,
>>who can have fun and
>>bug the eff out even
>>though they don't have huge
>>sale ...
>
>The alkaholiks, whom I like a
>lot, does not compare to
>the "fun" groups of back
>in the Day. Kool
>G rap and Big Daddy
>Kane could be a Gangster
>and a Pimp, but at
>the same time "Erase Racism".
> When's the last time
>the Liks did anything on
>that level. (you could
>make an argument for the
>Lootpacks' first 12", but that
>might be a bit to
>obscure for the rest of
>the group)
>

i don't understand, i was referring to groups that just looked like they were having fun .. why would you bring up "erase racism"? .. just because the liks don't have a song on that level doesn't discredit them, cause they do what they do best, act a fool with good rhymes and beats ...btw what the hell is the name of the song off of the "coast to coast" album, that dealt with young kids smoking, drinking, playing with guns, etc? (the chorus went "this goes once, for my niggaz smokin blunts, twice, for my niggaz rollin dice ... " damn i can't remember it)

>groups like mop,
>>who bring mad energy without
>>the sales to back it
>>up .. artists like j-live,
>>who can make albums that
>>cover just about every piece
>>of the hip hop spectrum
>>and still struggle to push
>>100,000 units ... groups like
>>company flow (even though they're
>>broken up) that don't give
>>a shit about how abstract
>>their shit may sound cause
>>they're doing it for themselves
>
>It's all image. Jus, Len,
>and El are just folks
>trying to make a dollar.
> They are willing to
>do some illegal ish to
>get their music made.
>I don't know how many
>times they talk about selling
>a ton of wee in
>order to make fun crusher
>plus.
>

hehe did coflow really say that? :) nah but for real, you don't think put time and effort into what they do? i define image as putting up a front or false persona to sell records .. you don't think they want their stuff to sound dope AND sell to? i doubt they would make something intentionally wack just to sell ...

>>...
>>
>>i'm also happy that some of
>>these lesser known acts are
>>now getting recognition ... i've
>>been following mos def and
>>kweli since "fortified live" in
>>97, been following common since
>>"ressurection", and been following the
>>roots since "do you want
>>more" (yes, i was down
>>with each of these artists
>>before i even knew about
>>okayplayer),
>
>I won't even get on the
>roots. I've got respect
>for all the artists that
>made this board happen, but
>considering what they are capable
>of, they aren't even trying
>to do what Dead Prez,
>a far less talented group
>compared to the folks who
>run this site, are doing.
> (and if anyone wants
>to debate Black Thought or
>Common vs M-1 and Stic
>Man, we could take this
>to the Lesson).
>

well who said that they have the same agenda that dead prez do? all artists do not have to share the same agenda, even those often lumped together (like the okayartists) ... no matter what they're "capable" of, i think that dead prez is on another level of thinking (not necessarily a higher one) than thought and the rest of them ...

>Kari Orr
>giraffe killer
>disenchanted hip hop head.
>mad at the world, and taking
>it out on okayplayer.


----
IM and ICQ name: reefdogg1 (number one at the end)

where my Jersey heads at?!?!?!

okayivyleagueplayer reppin Brown University and NSBE region ONE !!!!

"you're either part of the problem or you're part of the solution .. what's your contribution to life?" - J5

"the rule of allah is god's equality / i desire for my brothers, the same that i desire for me / but when my brother's stay dying, of everything else but old age / my heart fills up with what, RAGE!!!!!" - J-Live (thanks d_dog)