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Forum nameOkay Activist Archives
Topic subjectRE: agree/disagree
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=22&topic_id=22392&mesg_id=22406
22406, RE: agree/disagree
Posted by k_orr, Fri Aug-11-00 12:35 PM

>yeah it does. if you wanna
>work you can get a
>job. if you wanna learn
>to read you can. desire
>IS the key.

so poor people just desire to be poor. Or they desire not to work for it? Or they desire not to study?

for many
>it's easier to not do
>that is TO DO (or
>at least try). Actually what
>I'M getting at is the
>way the "System" will trick
>some folks into believeing that
>you CAN"T do better and
>shouldn't try.

How does the system do this?

For many it
>IS easier to sit back
>and "get over" than it
>is to make an effort
>to sustain yourself.

For many? For most?

The tricky
>thing is that when you
>relay on ANYBODY to sustain
>you you're reliant upon that
>person and their whims.

like my Mom's right?
>> These people tend to
>>have limited or questionable educational
>>background (meaning social promotion).
>
>you gotta elaborate on this one...

I think he means that folks who come up in poor backgrounds go to bad schools, or they don't learn anything at school despite having a diploma.

I submit even if they were "A" students at good or bad schools, the diploma is worthless. (in terms of getting a ticket into the middle class)

>but at some
>point if you say "I'm
>not even going to TRY
>and get past that" or
>fuss about the fact that
>the hurdle exists, you're essentially
>pulling yourself out of the
>"race".

so they just give up on doing better?

the mentality I'm talking
>about is the one where
>you get so tired of
>fighting that you give up
>and either believe that there
>IS no way out, or
>convince yourself that no matter
>what you do you'll lose
>anyway. getting specifically to the
>jobs thing, i know PLENTY
>of folk who would rather
>sit and get a check
>than get a job (or
>two if that's what it
>takes). period.

What should we as a society do with those people?
Should we "encourage" them to get jobs?

>I believe in a "do what
>it takes" ethic. If you're
>just sitting home collecting a
>check and not doing anything
>else then (sorry if this
>sounds harsh) but you are
>a leech.

whoa, I thought you cats were liberals?

>Go to school,
>help in your community, SOMETHING.

Damn.

>..and trying to stay on whatever
>assistance can actually cost you
>a lot more (in my
>opinion). there is a difference
>between assistance as a compliment
>to what you already make
>and as a replacement. believe
>me. i've lived it. i
>know it's hard for many
>to live without this help.
>but what's the alternative, give
>up?

alternatives
Kick back. Watch TV. Don't vote, Don't get involved. don't raise your children. Smoke, Drink, catch the holy ghost.

>i see folks everyday
>selling oranges and flowers on
>the street. I watch groups
>of guys get up at
>dawn to stnd at home
>depot to offer their services
>to folk rather than wait
>for someone to GIVE them
>something. you may think that's
>silly, but to me there
>is a certain dignity to
>earning what sustains you.

Is it more dignified to ask for handout work, or just straightup hand outs?

>>Children also pay a part in
>>the decision, but for our
>>conversations purposes, we will not
>>broach that subject.
>
>that is another discussion. but I'd
>have to take the hardline
>there too. why have a
>kid that you can't support
>yourself (again gettting HELP is
>different than getting a full
>ride based upon your ability
>to breed)?

What if you aren't making the decision to have a kid. Maybe you decided to have sex, but your baby Mama decides to keep the kid. What do you do then? (thank God I don't have no personal experience on that one.)

peace
k. orr