hello all...

theres a skit on blackalicious' nia, right before shallow days, in which a speech on black unity is being given. the guy goes on to say that black people in america are no different than black people outside of america--that they indeed are brothers and sisters. my question is this: does the same thing apply to native americans and the hispanic population? what is the difference between the two, aside from a border and language difference? theres also cultural differences, but theres the same differences between canadian white people and american white people, and i dont think too many people distinguish between those two.

im of the choctaw tribe myself, and its a common occurence for someone to mistake me for being mexican (i live in texas, and people just assume). its annoying to constantly have your culture questioned, especially when that same culture is almost dead anyway, but lately ive just been questioning the whole issue a lot. its got me to thinking.

so should native american people consider themselves hispanic as well? and vice versa? what exactly is the difference? are we really that different?

thoughts, ideas?

u

AIM SN: psychophant110

"I have been and still am a seeker, but I have ceased to question stars and books; I have begun to listen to the teachings my blood whispers to me."
--Hermann Hesse

I can't really give ya' a perspective on what it is like to be mistaken for Mexican when in truth one is Native American. But I have a few questions for anyone who reads this post.

Is there a cultural and genetic link between Native American peoples(as a whole) and those of Mexican descent? Or is there a link only when talking about Southwestern tribes and people of Mexican descent? Would a person from a tribe that resided in what is now considered North Dakota have the same link to those of Mexican descent? I ask this out of curiosity and lack of knowledge.

Do the Incas have a strong connection to the Shawnee?

At first glance I thought it would be obvious that there are too many cultural and language barriers to consider Native American people and people of Mexican descent as one. However I think Uncle Ant brings up a good comparison between those of African descent in America and those outside of America. Are the differences only do to the location of the people?

Just rattling some ?'s and really just bringing up the same ?'s Uncle Ant has brought up. Wish I could help more but due to my lack of education on the subject I am clueless.

Ursus

Im not the expert on this.. so this is just my opinion.. if any link it would be that Hispanics/Latinos should be recognized as descendants of Native Americans... cuz it would be incorect to call them natives, just as i feel it would be incorrect to call Black Americans african, because culturally we are not..we are american, as much as i hate to admit it..anyway, i can understand your distress though, cuz unlike people of african origin/descent, there isnt a broad term to group Natives and Hispanics/Latinos under.. there is no yellow or red, for our Black.. and i think many Latinos will be unwilling to accept that because many are so proud of their nationality ( look at beef between dominicans and puerto ricans), on top of the reluctance of many Latinos to accept their indeigenous roots.. in many placed the worst thing that you can be called in an indian, because of your features or skin tone... so i dont know.. that same complex occurs all over in the black community as well...forgive me for using the Black analogy but its all that i really know...but thanks for addressing that cuz its something that never crossed my mind..peace...

First let me get some terms defined. Hispanic are people of hispaniola, presently dominican republic and haiti (yes haitains are technically hispanic). But today the term as been commonly swapped with latino, which his any one with latin/spanish background. But the thing about hispanic culture which i don't think many people realize is that the spanish culture is very much like the white culture. Latinos are made of many different races being combined: Spanish(spain), Taino and many differnt native tribes, African, and french. That is why so latinos have so much pride in their own culure, because they vary so much from country to country. For example, sout american countries are more native influence were as carribean are more Spanish influenced. That is why swapping native and latino would be wrong. Because there are many latinos who have no or extremely little indian blood in their veins, For example, I'm dominican and my family is can be directly traced back to Collado Villaba a town in Madrid, Spain. THus my family is very light skin and Spanish/white rather than Taino or Black. Well then again, its my opinion.....




" THE UNDERGROUND CAN NOT BE CLASSIFIED BY PHYSICAL MEANS; IT IS NOT A HOLE, A BASEMENT, OR A MUSIC INDUSTRY. THE UNDERGROUND IS A STATE OF MIND; WHERE LIMITATIONS ARE FEW AND FREEDOMS ARE MANY."
-FROM MY FINAL PAPER ON RALPH ELISON'S /INVISIBLE MAN/: THE PATH TO FREEDOM:THE UNDERGROUND.


DIALECTIC AKA MERLIN

>hello all...
>
>theres a skit on blackalicious' nia,
>right before shallow days, in
>which a speech on black
>unity is being given.
>the guy goes on to
>say that black people in
>america are no different than
>black people outside of america--that
>they indeed are brothers and
>sisters. my question is
>this: does the same
>thing apply to native americans
>and the hispanic population?
>what is the difference between
>the two, aside from a
>border and language difference?
>theres also cultural differences, but
>theres the same differences between
>canadian white people and american
>white people, and i dont
>think too many people distinguish
>between those two.
>
>im of the choctaw tribe myself,
>and its a common occurence
>for someone to mistake me
>for being mexican (i live
>in texas, and people just
>assume). its annoying to
>constantly have your culture questioned,
>especially when that same culture
>is almost dead anyway, but
>lately ive just been questioning
>the whole issue a lot.

do you feel an affinity with mexican/chicano culture? do you feel that there are many similarities between choctaw culture and mexican culture? or are you only mistaken as mexican because of the way you look? btw, the reason that people probably assume you're mexican is because the stereotypical "mexican look" is someone with indigenous features.


>so should native american people consider
>themselves hispanic as well?
>and vice versa? what
>exactly is the difference?
>are we really that different?

i'm not really sure. generally, the term "hispanic/latino" refers to people who live in the western hemisphere who come from countries where the primary language is spanish. (i know someone's going to scream on me for saying that, but let's be realistic: if you use the term latino or hispanic, you're generally not thinking of someone who's haitian, brazilian, or spanish.) now here's the tricky part: much of what is now the south western united states used to be part of mexico. i don't know if any indigenous groups in that area consider themselves to be latinos because of the border change. i've never heard of it, but then again i live in ny so i don't really know.

i realize i've probably asked more questions than answered them, but i hope this helps somewhat.


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That's a good question/issue. I myself am part Puerto Rican and also part Cherokee with a whole lot of other seasonings in the broth. I think what Blackalicious is trying to say is that Blacks in Jamaica, Brazil, and Ghana share a cultural history and a similar history of oppression as Blacks in the US. That's not to say that they're all the same. So you're not Hispanic (that word means linguistically Spanish). But ethnically, Amerindians should support each others' causes across borders. Our peoples are disappeared in the Caribbean and all but in North America. There are still some in South America like the Yanomami who haven't had their cultures stolen from them, but they're threatened. Activism for Natives and human rights in general should be respected across borders.

But a Choctaw is probably not Hispanic. And a Mayan probably doesn't use the term Native American.

Incidentally, many Mexicans in the US have ancestry from Native tribes from areas of what is now the US. After the Mexican-American War a lot of natives and mestizos were forced south of the border. Ironically, a lot of those people are considered immigrants on land their ancestors were driven from.

Okay, getting back to the original question. Just to make this short and sweet. Mexicans have Native American blood period point blank. I don't really know the history behind Native American, but Mexican's are a mix of Native American and Spanish blood.






"Shut the fuck up bitch,Eat a dick bitch,Eat a bowl of shit bitch!"Kurupt
"I'm a throw shade if I can't get paid blow you up to your girl like the Army grenade!"Lil Kim

Have things in common struggle wise even if their cultural specificities vary....the third world students strike at SF and Berkley showed the power of people of color who formed mullti racial coalitions and realized that oppression is mmulti lateral. I am currently in a multi racial coalition and while many things are culturally unique oppression is not one of them. Diasporic nationalism, a phrase coined by many inteleectuals is very popular in the third world movement which translated to many students of color getting involved with labor movements and political abroad even if their family is long since removed .

keep ur third eye on the sparrow-common

"flesh is full of holes
It is made to breathe
secrate receive
it is nothing against bombs and bullets
It is not meant to be a barrier against anything
But this dark flesh will resist you
flee you who believe
you are not made of the same skin and bones"--Cherrie Moraga

Who gave u/permission 2 rearrange me?/ certianly not me!--e. badu

Well behaved women rarely make HISstory.

http://www.homestead.com/waxrevolutionz/getup.html

Native means you were born here (or here first).
Mexicans, those born in the area or region, are decendants of Olmecs, Toltecs, Mayans and Aztecs, culures thousands of years old.
About 500 years ago they were "colonized" (I could get ugly) by Spain and then by France thus "integrating" these cultures and languages (the natives spoke a different language which linguists have been able to connect with American native languages).
It is true, especially in the southwest (Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California), that natives (many speaking Spanish) were driven south because we (manifest destiny dictators) bought the land.
I beleive that natives of both countries are more alike than different, but that years of separation and European influence have widened the gap between peoples whose heritage originates on this land.
It would be like saying that Native Africans in South Aftrica are not African anymore because of the European influence that has accumulated in a few hundred years.
I've asked a Native American if he thought Mexicans were the same, he said no. But I've also had a similar conversation with a poet who speaks Spanish and whose father was Indian. He says it is.
It's all about perspective.


"And I'll tell it and think it and speak it and breath it,
And reflect it from the mountain so all souls can see it,
But I'll know my song well before I start singin'" Bob Dylan