>>>Hell, just look at
>>>the music industry. Most
>>>vocal artists are not rich
>>>when they first start off,
>>>but they gain money through
>>>their music and selling of
>>>their albums, and make tons
>>>of money.
>>
>>Bwaahahahaha. I don't know if
>>any of the okayartists check
>>this board regularly, but I'd
>>looooooooove to hear what they
>>think about this.

>Who cares? They can complain
>all they want, but I
>doubt if they are going
>around hungry, especially ones with
>recording contracts and albums out.
>It's funny how celebrities
>complain about the "plight of
>the world" when they are
>part of the group that
>is taking advantage of the
>system that they are against.

So, when I proove your remarks to be completely false, it becomes irrelevant ? How convenient.

>>The music industry (and especially the
>>majors) is the prime example
>>of exploitation and modern day
>>slavery.
>
>Great hyperbole. Where's the charity
>organization in which I can
>contribute to?? Save the
>Musicians? Yes save these
>musicians from the evil music
>industry that has made alot
>of them 6 figure and
>7 figure salaries. Yes,
>my heart truly bleeds for
>them. Shame on Bad
>Boy Entertainment and Cash Money
>Records!

You obviously haven't got a clue : there's a huge difference between being an artist and a label manager/owner, and then there's still a huge difference between a sublabel and the major label execs.

Artists end up with 10-15% of the money generated with their music.

When you refer to 6 or 7 figure salaries, that's a very small minority of the artists in music today (but since you only care about rich people in general, don't let it worry you).

>Oh give me a break.
>Your
>assumption that everyone with money
>are nothing but asskissers and
>exploiters is becoming tired.

Where did I say this ? Simply cos I analyse today's system and criticize a few phenomenons, you conclude that's what I think ?

I have no problem with people working hard at all, nor with people making a lot of money through honest work.

I DO have problems with people making exorbitant amounts of money through speculation and exploitation of other people who have no means to defend themselves or stand up against it.

You should be able to separate both, just like I do.

Sorry that I don't fit into your simplistic logic where the rich are good guys and poor people are lazy bums. Like there's no lazy bums on the rich side ...

>I never said that. I
>said glass ceilings are made
>lower through socialism, and discrimination,
>whether by gender or race,
>is made stronger though that
>ideal.

But you failed to explain how. Which makes it as valid as your other rethoric.

>I also said
>that glass ceilings, racism, and
>sexism can be overcame however.
>It's all about the
>desire you want to overcome
>them.

I think you're gonna make a few million people very happy. Please share with us how to overcome structural racism and sexism, with nothing but desire, motivation and ambition.

>And that's a lie. Once
>again your assertion of the
>evil filty rich is tired.

No, your assumption that that is how I see every person with money is incorrect.

Stop seeing what you'd like to see and denying what doesn't fit in your logic (?)

>I guess the new
>industries and technologies that are
>being made every day comes
>off the backs of the
>poor too?

If you're referring to computers assembled by (Chinese) prisoners, yes.

>I guess
>you can't get an education
>because the "man" won't let
>you get one?

Sometimes this is the case.
I'd like to work towards 'it (almost) never happens'. You just say it never happens to make things easier.

If it turns out to be the opposite of what you say, you don't give a eff.

Life is easy that way, but I rather live my life my way.

>Your
>passionate reasoning is quite touching,
>but the facts say it's
>illogical.

Which facts ? Textbooks ? Written by people like you with no sense of reality or no experience with the real world outside your protective materialist cocoon ?

>More and more
>people are owning their own
>businesses. More and more
>people are becoming financially independent.
>More and more people
>are self-employed, and more and
>more people are making fortunes
>than ever. That's why
>the economy is the best
>it's ever been in the
>history of the world.
>It's those opportunities and technologies
>that you're so much against,
>calling it exploitation.

First of all, there's more people than ever too. So it's quite logical to have more self-owned businesses.

Secondly, you restrict your logic to the US, I don't. Mainly cos I don't live in the US, but also cos I see the other side of your bright shiny system and its consequences.

Those consequences are economical, cultural, social and so on. I don't have to accept your system. I don't have to agree with the US trying to shove it down my throat. And I can mos def express it here.

>Yes, because you forgot one simple
>idea....cost of living. If
>all the poorer people were
>to get richer, say, by
>raising up minimum wage, in
>order for businesses to recieve
>a profit so they can
>live they would have to
>up revenue, which means that
>prices would have to go
>up. Therefore, all narrowing
>the gap is going to
>do is cause poor people
>to come up with more
>dollars in order to live.
> They call it minimum
>wage/standard of living for a
>reason; because it's the lowest
>job standard you can get.

And you forget reality.
I've already mentioned before that prices DID GO UP (which is normal), but the lower wages didn't follow. So the gap only got bigger.

>So, even if they do get
>a better education, and even
>if you try to universally
>raise up the poor's income,
>all you're doing it making
>it harder for them and
>everyone else; them because they
>are still going to be
>poor, meaning they will have
>to gain more money in
>order to live under the
>comfort level you'd like to
>see them at, and everyone
>else because you are taking
>their money away from them,
>which means they will lose
>financial security and status, making
>it harder for them to
>get by. You're not
>helping out the economy, you're
>stifiling it.

No problem : we'll let the prices, rent, ... (cost of living) continue to rise and keep the low wages where they are right now and tell all people who suffer from this textbook theory that it's the best for them.

>>>Remember this, in this world no
>>>matter what form of government
>>>or whatever, there are always
>>>going to be ones that
>>>have and there are always
>>>going to be ones that
>>>don't have. That's just
>>>how it is.
>>
>>That's just how it is.
>>
>>Interesting.
>>
>>You got infected with AIDS at
>>a PRIVATE hospital, cos they
>>don't care about checking the
>>blood from donors (controlling that
>>cuts profits, see) ?
>>Too bad man, "that's just how
>>it is".
>
>You can get AIDS at government
>hospitals the same way.

Not here my friend.

>However, chances are that you'll
>be more likely to get
>it though public funded hospitals
>than private ones.

How ? Why ?
Oh, let me guess : most people don't have access to private hospitals cos they simply don't have the money to get in.

>Simply
>put, there is no business
>government can succeed at better
>than the private sector.

How ? Why ?

Plus you completely ignored my remark. You don't seem to realise that cutting profits at all cost holds a risk. And that that risk becomes bigger when competition gets tougher.

>>Oh, it's that simple ?
>>Sorry, forgot you don't acknowledge
>>the existence of racism, sexism,
>>unfair world trade (understatement of
>>the year)
>
>The thing is that with desire
>and ambition you can overcome
>all those things.

I don't think workers in Africa or Colombia have problems with desire or ambition.

Unless you believe that these people are inherently lazier, less motivated or dumber there's no reason to assume this.

>will is one of the
>most strongest forces in this
>world. However, if you
>don't believe in yourself, then
>you aren't going to get
>much done.

read my lips : N A I V E

I don't blame you son, you're still young and you're so stuck in your simplistic logic, that it must be quite terrifying to see people talking
about a more complex, more global reality.

>>What about Softenon victims ?
>
>never heard of it

Never mind. You wouldn't be interested anyway. You'd blame it on the victims.

>Please. It is not the
>job of the public to
>control private businesses. They
>have a choice on if
>they want to do business
>with a company, but noone
>other than the owners/shareholders have
>a right to decide on
>the direction of the company.

Excuse me while I disagree (c) Jimi Hendrix ;-)

Choosing for supporting a business is a way of controlling it.

>Plus, what you are
>proposing is that the government
>control these private companies through
>democratic consent. That's truly
>satanic, not to mention authoritarian.

Democratic consent = authoritarian ? Interesting.
Next thing you'll probably tell me is that blue = yellow ...

>>I thought you were pro equal
>>opportunities ? Shouldn't everyone
>>have access to financial consultants
>>then ?
>
>They do. The only difference
>is whether or not they
>can afford them.

If you don't have money to pay for the bus, you don't have access to it. Your access depends on your financial status.

>All you guys do is sit
>and complain, sit and complain.
>Now it's put up
>or shut up time:

No it isn't. That's what we call democracy over here ;-)

I'm not complaining. Actually, I'm analysing, and discussing some things I see happen, that are related to my life cos I'm mainly on the benefit side of it. And I don't agree with the fact that the luxury that has become such an evidence over here for people of my generation, has been and is still built on exploitation, genocide and oppression.

>tell me
>how you plan to execute
>this idea of democracy.
>Until you can do that,
>you and the other Okayplayer
>liberals are doing nothing but
>blowing hot air.

I'd rather blow hot air than have my head up my ass.

>I suggest you read this column
>
>http://herald.com/content/today/opinion/columnists/pitts/digdocs/073792.htm
>
>I think his opinion of all
>you "activists" are right on
>the money. You have
>no coherent plan, no kind
>of direction, no nothing.

What your friend is saying is the same reasoning as people saying ALL hiphop is BS cos there's a lot of people who don't know the culture.
Or saying that all homosexuals or lesbians are just doing it cos it's a trend (just cos there's a few people experimenting and switching sides).

Just cos there's a few people rioting or not completely informed about the cause of the protests, doesn't make the protesting or critique irrelevant.

Basically, that column just says that everyone who lives in a comfortable condition should shut up and not talk about the cost of us living this way, cos it annoys you too much. You don't like to hear it.

Too bad. You said yourself the truth can be hard to swallow. Better brace yourself kid.

>All you do is want
>to complain complain complain, without
>actually trying to come up
>with a logical solution to
>get things done.

Don't worry. I get things done on the daily. It's a slow process, but I know that since I know what I'm up against. I'm patient.

>I'm out.

Couldn't have said it better.


OKAYPLAYER COMPILATION 2000 !!!
http://urgent.rug.ac.be/vinylators/okpcompil2000.htm

OKAYPLAYERSONG PT. 2 :
http://urgent.rug.ac.be/vinylators/audio/okp2s.mp3

OKAYPLAYERSONG PT. 1 (the original baybee !!):
http://urgent.rug.ac.be/vinylators/audio/okplayer.mp3

HOME : http://urgent.rug.ac.be/vinylators

I'm part of this too ... :
http://www.thejawn.com/okprod/

the instrumentals for my next album (in MP3-format) :
http://urgent.rug.ac.be/vinylators/audio/instrus.html


'We've got to change our own minds about each other. We have to see each other with new eyes. We have to see each other as brothers and sisters. We have to come together with warmth'