I ask this question after reading a previous post regarding Dead Prez's latest video, "They Schools". According to the Music Today website, they are the only ones who are giving the public the option to view the video. Due to its content, it isn't being shown in any video outlet unless the label agrees to edit it.

This to me is stifling. I had the pleasure of viewing the video at www.musictoday.com/download/dead_prez.asp , and I can honestly say, I don't see the problem. It's no worse than what's currently being played day in and day out. These brothers have a voice that needs to be heard.

One of the major concerns surrounding the video, is the wearing of nooses. There is a scene where there's a room full of brothers, without shirts, looking into the camera, but it's only Stic man and M1 who are wearing the nooses while they rap. There's also a scene where they are burning history books and trashing a classroom. As far as I'm concerned, in this scene, they're making a political statement in regards to our history, Black history, American history, not being taught in its full capacity within the classroom, and they are fed up.

In all fairness, naturally in the wake of the whole Columbine incident (as well as others), I can understand how officials might be shakey with some of the visuals, but it's deeper than that. These brothers are trying to bring forth awareness. And I think it's a shame that they are being censored. Especially when it's something that needs to be heard. I mean come on, do we not remember Puffy's "It's All About the Benjamins" video where during a high school prom, these kids ran through and trashed the school (throwing garbage cans through trophy cases)while running to a tour bus? Hello, no message there. Forgive me, how absent-minded am I? There was a message. Get money and keep a clip on hand (how appropriate). Yet MTV and BET alike, kept those in rotation. Isn't that ironic?

Anyhoo, back to my original question. In regards to censorship, what exactly do you think is "taking it too far"? Should an artist's creativity be stifled, and if so, to what extent? What do you deem inappropriate? By the way, have you seen the video on the site? What do you think about it? In doing so, check out their press release statement.

Forgive me for the length of this post... I'm vexed.

-Wisdom

"Beauty isn't genetic;It isn't something you're born with. Beauty must manifest itself. It must be cultivated from the inside, in order to shine through, and be seen on the outside." - Xiobé Adu

The 10 Things I Love in Life:
------------------------------------
*Good Company
*A Hard Laugh
*A Man Who Can Cook
*Jazz
*Poetry
*Summer Nights
*Road Trips
*A Good Movie
*An Even Better Book
*The Scent of a Man

...they wanna censor that.

It might make kids go to school thinkin'. It might make students more interested in learning than teachers are prepared for.

Honestly I had a couple of dope high school teachers who taught us about colonialism, genocide, etc. but I know I was lucky. There's a lot of backward-ass school teachers out there.

You were right, it ain't the violence or the language (they bleep it out for Dre, they can bleep it out for Dead Prez) that MTV is concerned about... It's the message.

peace

Suddenly I was feeling so all alone. I just don't understand their reasoning in video rotation. Especially when it was only a few months ago when Dead Prez was on BET Talk Live with Tavis Smiley, receiving such high praise for their lyrical content and beliefs. Yet they wont broadcast their video, but it's okay for Lil'Kim to walk around with her butt, along with everything else, exposed trivializing sex and talking about extorting brothers for money. Not to mention, the high reviews they're getting in these so-called music magazines. I swear on the internet alone there's about 5,000 review sites featuring there album, just beaming praise. What's wrong with this picture? Any thoughts anyone? Blessings.

-Wisdom

"Beauty isn't genetic;It isn't something you're born with. Beauty must manifest itself. It must be cultivated from the inside, in order to shine through, and be seen on the outside." - Xiobé Adu

The 10 Things I Love in Life:
------------------------------------
*Good Company
*A Hard Laugh
*A Man Who Can Cook
*Jazz
*Poetry
*Summer Nights
*Road Trips
*A Good Movie
*An Even Better Book
*The Scent of a Man

Cause when you really watch BET, there is plenty of non-healthy very questionable imagery. Sippin on Some Syrup comes to mind, but we've seen far worse though.

peace
k. orr
And I love some Tre-6 Mafia, so don't get it twisted.

This isn't an issue of censorship. Far as I know the FTC has never stepped in and banned the video from being shown on national television. BET and other networks have the right to prohibit showing the video if they like. Although I haven't seen it, nor even listened to the song (I did catch the lyrics on OKP here somewhere), I'm sure they didn't want to show the video or play the song for the simple fact that it might create a negative response in the black community, aka "hip hop is going too far".

Also, one more thing. Artists don't decide what is popular among the public. The public decides what's popular among the public. People are not going to shell out money or waste their time on "art" that they don't like. Therefore, the artists' interpretation of the art is irrelevant; people are always going to see what they want to see regardless of who says differently.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship." - Alexander Tyler

"In general the art of government consists in taking as much money as possible from one class of citizens to give to the other." -Voltaire

"The assumption that spending more of the taxpayer's money will make things better has survived all kinds of evidence that it has made things worse. The black family- which survived slavery, discrimination, poverty, wars and depressions- began to come apart as the federal government moved in with its well-financed programs to "help." - Thomas Sowell

"Life is insensitive, and the truth can be highly offensive. To hide from either is to hide from the reality of life. Take pride in the fact that I am an equal opportunity offender. You today, someone else tomorrow. You have no constitutional right not to be offended." - Neal Boortz

Some of you still think America's a
democracy. Lemme break it down for
ya...

* Democracy:  Three wolves and a sheep
vote on the dinner menu.
* Democratically Elected Republic: Three
wolves and 2 sheep vote on which sheep's
for dinner. 
* Constitutional Republic: The eating of
mutton is forbidden by law, and the
sheep are armed.

The United States is a CONSTITUTIONAL
REPUBLIC. Not a democracy.

Yes....I am a PROUD Black Libertarian Conservative.

About the Kim thing (with her ass hanging out), I mean that crap sells is why they play it for real.

Also, it is a pacifier for people. I mean, if you can keep everyone's eyes on sex and ice, etc, then they may not keep on thinking about the crap that they and/or people live.

I mean, the press is always quick to commend somebody for doin some good (like prez do) but you better be damn sure that they wont play that shit if the corporate sponsors and supportin it.

I think Prez's video should get layed uncut. I dont really see the explict elements as bad. Just truth telling.

Gone.

>About the Kim thing (with her
>ass hanging out), I mean
>that crap sells is why
>they play it for real.

Duh. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that out.

>Also, it is a pacifier for
>people. I mean, if you
>can keep everyone's eyes on
>sex and ice, etc, then
>they may not keep on
>thinking about the crap that
>they and/or people live.

Another duh. That's why you have to avoid the "sex and ice" on your own. Life is full of temptations.

>I mean, the press is always
>quick to commend somebody for
>doin some good (like prez
>do) but you better be
>damn sure that they wont
>play that shit if the
>corporate sponsors and supportin it.

Whether or not Prez is doing some good is simply your opinion. But the bottom line is that the corps are the ones that pay their bills, and makes things run, therefore they aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them.

>I think Prez's video should get
>layed uncut. I dont really
>see the explict elements as
>bad. Just truth telling.

Once again, that's your opinion. Obviously other people think otherwise.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship." - Alexander Tyler

"In general the art of government consists in taking as much money as possible from one class of citizens to give to the other." -Voltaire

"The assumption that spending more of the taxpayer's money will make things better has survived all kinds of evidence that it has made things worse. The black family- which survived slavery, discrimination, poverty, wars and depressions- began to come apart as the federal government moved in with its well-financed programs to "help." - Thomas Sowell

"Life is insensitive, and the truth can be highly offensive. To hide from either is to hide from the reality of life. Take pride in the fact that I am an equal opportunity offender. You today, someone else tomorrow. You have no constitutional right not to be offended." - Neal Boortz

Some of you still think America's a
democracy. Lemme break it down for
ya...

* Democracy:  Three wolves and a sheep
vote on the dinner menu.
* Democratically Elected Republic: Three
wolves and 2 sheep vote on which sheep's
for dinner. 
* Constitutional Republic: The eating of
mutton is forbidden by law, and the
sheep are armed.

The United States is a CONSTITUTIONAL
REPUBLIC. Not a democracy.

Yes....I am a PROUD Black Libertarian Conservative.

"This isn't an issue of censorship. Far as I know the FTC has never stepped in and banned the video from being shown on national television. BET and other networks have the right to prohibit showing the video if they like."

** I disagree. This has everything to do with censorship. According to press release statements and the site, (the only area where the video is being shown)Dead Prez's video has been banned from ALL video outlets, unless they edit it. True, BET and MTV can prohibit the showing of the video if they want, but it's still censorship, no doubt.


"Also, one more thing. Artists don't decide what is popular among the public. The public decides what's popular among the public. People are not going to shell out money or waste their time on "art" that they don't like. Therefore, the artists' interpretation of the art is irrelevant; people are always going to see what they want to see regardless of who says differently."


** Never said artists made that decision. However, they can influence it. According to album sales and reviews, the public HAS deemed them popular. Again I disagree, people will not have a chance to see what they want as long as there is someone there to say "I don't think this is appropriate for you to view". That would be like me wanting to post my opinion on a subject matter, because I feel in some way it infringes on the right of free speech, but then having BooDaah come in and delete my post because he feels it may agitate some Players to the point where they might feel the need to do something about it. Same damn thing. It's all about censorship. I don't care if no one even heard of Dead Prez. It's not about popularity. It's about being able to voice your opinion, no matter how "unconventional" or "rebellious" it may be. No one's getting hurt in their video. If anything, nothing but positivity could come from it. Check out the video and marinate on that. Then holla back. Blessings.

-Wisdom

"Beauty isn't genetic;It isn't something you're born with. Beauty must manifest itself. It must be cultivated from the inside, in order to shine through, and be seen on the outside." - Xiobé Adu

The 10 Things I Love in Life:
------------------------------------
*Good Company
*A Hard Laugh
*A Man Who Can Cook
*Jazz
*Poetry
*Summer Nights
*Road Trips
*A Good Movie
*An Even Better Book
*The Scent of a Man

>** I disagree. This has everything
>to do with censorship. According
>to press release statements and
>the site, (the only area
>where the video is being
>shown)Dead Prez's video has been
>banned from ALL video outlets,
>unless they edit it. True,
>BET and MTV can prohibit
>the showing of the video
>if they want, but it's
>still censorship, no doubt.

Censorship is when the government intervenes and says "hold on, you can't show that." Therefore, we can play semantics all day, but you conceded that private companies reserve the right to prohibit viewing of material they deem as inappropriate for their respective networks. Therefore, nothing else really needs to be said about the legalities of this issue. They do it because they want to do it. Bottom line.

>** Never said artists made that
>decision. However, they can influence
>it. According to album sales
>and reviews, the public HAS
>deemed them popular. Again I
>disagree, people will not have
>a chance to see what
>they want as long as
>there is someone there to
>say "I don't think this
>is appropriate for you to
>view". That would be like
>me wanting to post my
>opinion on a subject matter,
>because I feel in some
>way it infringes on the
>right of free speech, but
>then having BooDaah come in
>and delete my post because
>he feels it may agitate
>some Players to the point
>where they might feel the
>need to do something about
>it. Same damn thing.

And Boodah is perfectly entitled to do that. If he, Angiee (or whatever her name is. I don't keep up with the goings on this site) or whoever wants to pull the plug, then they can pull the plug. What you forget is that no matter what, mediums are a PRIVILEGE. Sure you can influence the owners as the audience into putting out a different product, but you can't force them to do it.

I think alot of people take the 1st amendment way too seriously to the point that they don't understand the actual meaning. The amendments are to protect citizens from government, not necessarily to protect people from other people. Therefore private parties and businesses have every right to limit speech within their own sectors. In other words, people cannot just say what they wanna say and do what they wanna do and think there won't be repercussions or backlash of any kind. The only ones that can't is government, and that's all.

It's
>all about censorship. I don't
>care if no one even
>heard of Dead Prez. It's
>not about popularity. It's about
>being able to voice your
>opinion, no matter how "unconventional"
>or "rebellious" it may be.
>No one's getting hurt in
>their video. If anything, nothing
>but positivity could come from
>it. Check out the video
>and marinate on that. Then
>holla back. Blessings.

I'll check the video, but it will do nothing to change my point. The bottom line is that what I might like doesn't mean the other person is going to like it too. And there is a bigger world out there, one that might not take that video lightly. Sure, they could be petty and hyper sensitive, but the point is that just as you like it, they could dislike it. And the nays might outnumber the yays. Therefore, what to do then?

>-Wisdom
>
>"Beauty isn't genetic;It isn't something you're
>born with. Beauty must manifest
>itself. It must be cultivated
>from the inside, in order
>to shine through, and be
>seen on the outside." -
>Xiobé Adu
>
>The 10 Things I Love in
>Life:
>------------------------------------
>*Good Company
>*A Hard Laugh
>*A Man Who Can Cook
>*Jazz
>*Poetry
>*Summer Nights
>*Road Trips
>*A Good Movie
>*An Even Better Book
>*The Scent of a Man


"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship." - Alexander Tyler

"In general the art of government consists in taking as much money as possible from one class of citizens to give to the other." -Voltaire

"The assumption that spending more of the taxpayer's money will make things better has survived all kinds of evidence that it has made things worse. The black family- which survived slavery, discrimination, poverty, wars and depressions- began to come apart as the federal government moved in with its well-financed programs to "help." - Thomas Sowell

"Life is insensitive, and the truth can be highly offensive. To hide from either is to hide from the reality of life. Take pride in the fact that I am an equal opportunity offender. You today, someone else tomorrow. You have no constitutional right not to be offended." - Neal Boortz

Some of you still think America's a
democracy. Lemme break it down for
ya...

* Democracy:  Three wolves and a sheep
vote on the dinner menu.
* Democratically Elected Republic: Three
wolves and 2 sheep vote on which sheep's
for dinner. 
* Constitutional Republic: The eating of
mutton is forbidden by law, and the
sheep are armed.

The United States is a CONSTITUTIONAL
REPUBLIC. Not a democracy.

Yes....I am a PROUD Black Libertarian Conservative.

"Censorship is when the government intervenes and says "hold
on, you can't show that." Therefore, we can play semantics all
day, but you conceded that private companies reserve the
right to prohibit viewing of material they deem as inappropriate
for their respective networks. Therefore, nothing else really
needs to be said about the legalities of this issue. They do it
because they want to do it. Bottom line."

**I agree with you when you say private businesses have that privilege, no doubt. It's their money, and they, of course, have that right to decide how they choose to invest it. That's not the point I'm arguing. Going back to my original question, in their eyes, I would like to know, what exactly do they deem "taking it too far". What in your eyes is "taking it too far"? I mean, true you're not the network programmer, (atleast I don't think you are)so naturally you probably can't answer this question (the former). I just find it very hypocritical that they would ban a group/video like DP's, but yet will allow women to flash themselves in the videos of others (there are 3 videos currently in rotation, that I know of). Personally, I find that more offensive than the nooses. But then again, maybe that's just me. I have my own issues with BET and their hypocrisies. By the way, the comment you made about Hip-Hop (figuratively speaking of course):

"Hell, what part of hip hop doesn't glorify drug use (figuratively speaking)?"

I think that was very stereotypical. I'm sure that there are more than a few artists, Hip-Hop artists, out there that would disagree with you on that one. But then again, it is your opinion. Blessings.

-Wisdom



"Beauty isn't genetic;It isn't something you're born with. Beauty must manifest itself. It must be cultivated from the inside, in order to shine through, and be seen on the outside." - Xiobé Adu

The 10 Things I Love in Life:
------------------------------------
*Good Company
*A Hard Laugh
*A Man Who Can Cook
*Jazz
*Poetry
*Summer Nights
*Road Trips
*A Good Movie
*An Even Better Book
*The Scent of a Man

>**I agree with you when you
>say private businesses have that
>privilege, no doubt. It's their
>money, and they, of course,
>have that right to decide
>how they choose to invest
>it. That's not the point
>I'm arguing. Going back to
>my original question, in their
>eyes, I would like to
>know, what exactly do they
>deem "taking it too far".
>What in your eyes is
>"taking it too far"? I
>mean, true you're not the
>network programmer, (atleast I don't
>think you are)so naturally you
>probably can't answer this question
>(the former). I just find
>it very hypocritical that they
>would ban a group/video like
>DP's, but yet will allow
>women to flash themselves in
>the videos of others (there
>are 3 videos currently in
>rotation, that I know of).
>Personally, I find that more
>offensive than the nooses. But
>then again, maybe that's just
>me. I have my own
>issues with BET and their
>hypocrisies.

Not necessarily. It might be hypocrisy in your eyes, but not all of the public, especially their viewers. Perhaps they feel it will offend their sponsors and certain organizations, so they thought it would be best not to even show it at all. Rather safe than sorry.

By the way, the
>comment you made about Hip-Hop
>(figuratively speaking of course):

>"Hell, what part of hip hop
>doesn't glorify drug use (figuratively
>speaking)?"
>
>I think that was very stereotypical.
>I'm sure that there are
>more than a few artists,
>Hip-Hop artists, out there that
>would disagree with you on
>that one. But then again,
>it is your opinion. Blessings.

I meant that as collectively. Lets be real, not all hip hop is positive, or uplifting. You can call a duck a cow, but it's still a duck.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship." - Alexander Tyler

"In general the art of government consists in taking as much money as possible from one class of citizens to give to the other." -Voltaire

"The assumption that spending more of the taxpayer's money will make things better has survived all kinds of evidence that it has made things worse. The black family- which survived slavery, discrimination, poverty, wars and depressions- began to come apart as the federal government moved in with its well-financed programs to "help." - Thomas Sowell

"Life is insensitive, and the truth can be highly offensive. To hide from either is to hide from the reality of life. Take pride in the fact that I am an equal opportunity offender. You today, someone else tomorrow. You have no constitutional right not to be offended." - Neal Boortz

Some of you still think America's a
democracy. Lemme break it down for
ya...

* Democracy:  Three wolves and a sheep
vote on the dinner menu.
* Democratically Elected Republic: Three
wolves and 2 sheep vote on which sheep's
for dinner. 
* Constitutional Republic: The eating of
mutton is forbidden by law, and the
sheep are armed.

The United States is a CONSTITUTIONAL
REPUBLIC. Not a democracy.

Yes....I am a PROUD Black Libertarian Conservative.

I admit, I do hear what your saying. I guess in the end,
it all boils down to opinions, mine, yours, society, and
Corporate America alike. Doesn't mean I like though. Allow me to say thank you for engaging me in this conversation. It was a pleasure. Now, on to more pressing issues to tackle...Blessings.

-Wisdom

"Do you understand the words that are coming outta my mouth???"
-C. Tucker

Ever Wish You Could...
----------------------
* Out run the moon?

* Capture a lightning bug in the palm of your hand w/o extinguishing its light?

* Run through an open field barefoot just once w/o stepping on a sand spur?

* Have an intelligent conversation with someone w/o them looking at you as if they're thinking 'Essaywhuman??'

>This isn't an issue of censorship.



> Far as I know
>the FTC has never stepped
>in and banned the video

The Federal Trade Commission doesn't deal with Censorship. The FCC might though.

>from being shown on national
>television. BET and other
>networks have the right to
>prohibit showing the video if
>they like.

They are not under any obligation to show the video, just as ABC, CNN, NBC, CBS do not have to air the presidential debates.

but the press/media is supposed to be our 4th branch of govt. Their might be freedom of the press, but the presses are not free. In fact they are mighty expensive and serve the issues of big business more than they do the public.

Although I
>haven't seen it, nor even
>listened to the song (I
>did catch the lyrics on
>OKP here somewhere), I'm sure
>they didn't want to show
>the video or play the
>song for the simple fact
>that it might create a
>negative response in the black
>community, aka "hip hop is
>going too far".

I find that hard to believe in light of the other videos that they normally play. I mention again the Triple 6 Mafia video glorifying drug use.

>Also, one more thing. Artists
>don't decide what is popular
>among the public.

That's right, corporate America decides, by ownership of all the channels to reach the mass of people.

k. orr
my sig file doesn't take up most of my post.

>They are not under any obligation
>to show the video, just
>as ABC, CNN, NBC, CBS
>do not have to air
>the presidential debates.
>
>but the press/media is supposed to
>be our 4th branch of
>govt. Their might be
>freedom of the press, but
>the presses are not free.
> In fact they are
>mighty expensive and serve the
>issues of big business more
>than they do the public.

4th branch? That's a new one to me....

You're right about the press serving multiple masters. However, the bottom line is ratings and sponsorships. If they feel the video will cause them to lose sponsorship, then why should they view the video regardless? Rebellion doesn't always pay the bills, you know.

Also, just as a tidbit, FOX and NBC will preempt the debates for the MLB playoffs. I guess baseball is more important than electing the most important leader of the world. Oh well.

> Although I
>>haven't seen it, nor even
>>listened to the song (I
>>did catch the lyrics on
>>OKP here somewhere), I'm sure
>>they didn't want to show
>>the video or play the
>>song for the simple fact
>>that it might create a
>>negative response in the black
>>community, aka "hip hop is
>>going too far".
>
>I find that hard to believe
>in light of the other
>videos that they normally play.
> I mention again the
>Triple 6 Mafia video glorifying
>drug use.

Hell, what part of hip hop doesn't glorify drug use (figuratively speaking)?

>>Also, one more thing. Artists
>>don't decide what is popular
>>among the public.
>
>That's right, corporate America decides, by
>ownership of all the channels
>to reach the mass of
>people.

Well I dunno what you do, but I think I can make those decisions on my own.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship." - Alexander Tyler

"In general the art of government consists in taking as much money as possible from one class of citizens to give to the other." -Voltaire

"The assumption that spending more of the taxpayer's money will make things better has survived all kinds of evidence that it has made things worse. The black family- which survived slavery, discrimination, poverty, wars and depressions- began to come apart as the federal government moved in with its well-financed programs to "help." - Thomas Sowell

"Life is insensitive, and the truth can be highly offensive. To hide from either is to hide from the reality of life. Take pride in the fact that I am an equal opportunity offender. You today, someone else tomorrow. You have no constitutional right not to be offended." - Neal Boortz

Some of you still think America's a
democracy. Lemme break it down for
ya...

* Democracy:  Three wolves and a sheep
vote on the dinner menu.
* Democratically Elected Republic: Three
wolves and 2 sheep vote on which sheep's
for dinner. 
* Constitutional Republic: The eating of
mutton is forbidden by law, and the
sheep are armed.

The United States is a CONSTITUTIONAL
REPUBLIC. Not a democracy.

Yes....I am a PROUD Black Libertarian Conservative.

>4th branch? That's a new
>one to me....

It is part of the reason that we have a free press. Read some of Thomas Jefferson's, or the rest of the framers thoughts on the matter.

>You're right about the press serving
>multiple masters. However, the
>bottom line is ratings and
>sponsorships.

Both long term and short term. Many will miss out on short term ratings for the long term money. And it works vice versa also.

If they feel
>the video will cause them
>to lose sponsorship, then why
>should they view the video
>regardless? Rebellion doesn't always
>pay the bills, you know.

It never pays the bills. It threathens those whom we owe our debts too.

>Hell, what part of hip hop
>doesn't glorify drug use (figuratively
>speaking)?

Point taken. But I think the difference is that you no longer see guns, logos, and weed in videos. But prescription cough syrup concoction in baby bottles is a horse of a different color. In terms of things that they might lose advertising revenue for, a Dead Prez video is low on the totem pole.

>Well I dunno what you do,
>but I think I can
>make those decisions on my
>own.

The decisions that you can make are often decided by others. They don't choose what you can do, the only choose your possible options. Hence the 2 party system/lesser of 2 evils that we debate constantly.

k. orr
My post is longer than my sig file.