sorry for the delay the computers have been down most of the day at my job and then the boards were down, now i got a zillion other things to do. i will graze over a few topics to get the ball rolling.
1. Were the characters well developed and were their stories convincing?
2. Did the book hold your attention from beginning to end?
......the first page lost me but it got me back after the digital clock thoughts. i enjoyed the book b/c it reminded me of college life and my own experiences on a white campus. i liked that the book wasn't another omar tyree, collin channer, or e. lynn harris type book.
tony, i like this character's blase and nonchalant attitude. his character was a mixture of several of my male friends.
tameeka, broke the myth that only men like sex. but i think there are some underlying issues when a women is not only a freak but be fucking everybody.
kim, we learned about kim in a roundabout way. i think that tony wasn't ready for this relationship. at that time he wasn't ready for someone who trusted him and wasn't hounding him on his whereabouts and actions. he needed more structure.
gina, she was 'pussy' in the glass casing. ya know them condom keychains that are in the case seal, that is gina. there for emergency or when u need it. i liked that they hooked up in the end.
family, i liked the grandmama but i am biased b/c i love being around old people. his family dynamics shows how childhood and experiences molds our personality, values, and the types of relationships we'll have. i didn't agree with the implicaion that just b/c tony wasn't a hellraiser, like terry, that he didn't need his father's presence. hellraiser or no the father needed to be around.
overall i liked the book but i gotta go now and i hope ya'll will jump in and get this discussion started.
OCTOBER book, "Yo Mama's Dysfuncktional" Robin Kelley oct. 16
November book, "Coldest Winter Ever" Sister Souljah (if that isn't the exact title please correct me) nov. 13


--------sig-----------
Nappiness is next to Godliness!!!
"Poetry is theft, I'm a word kleptomaniac" (c)Patience Agbabi
Ms. Nappiness
http://www.geocities.com/okay_poets/nappiness.html

The first page really grabbed me. I loved the whole discussion of time. I thought it provided real insight into Tony's character -- that he's a relatively thoughtful and intelligent person (which might not have been apparent otherwise, or at least not immediately).

I don't have the book with me so I can't cite a page, but there's this moment about the middle of the book that was my absolute favorite.

Tony's going off on how women control sex, and he breaks it down into its components and gets all academic about it. And it's all about how women completely control men, and have men wrapped around their little fingers, etc. And then he starts in on women from a man's perspective, like who would you talk to? You know, she can't be too this or too that, or not enough of this, etc. and it just blows the whole Women Control Sex theory out of the water. Not that men control sex, but that it's mutual. I just thought that was so well done, so understated -- because I completely believe that Tony believes that women control sex. I just don't believe that Brian believes it or believes that it's a terribly healthy attitude.

Peace.

I would like to say that I enjoyed the book. I thought it reverberated the exact confusion that men feel towards women and life.

Did anyone not like the title of the book?
I thought it had some gay connotations to it. I thought of a guy confused about about his sexuality not a guy confused about how to love.

Tameka was ill for her openness. Kind of like a whole Lil' Kim persona. That still beyond my scope of resoning that women could ever seperate love and sex.

But the situation between him and Kim was halrious. She just turned of and resumed her business. Reminded me a lot of me pretending not to be affected by anyone. And cold.

He reminded me of my boy I sent the book to him right after I read it. Good heart, goes to church, want love, marriage, children, but get sidetrack by p...y He's a track star so it just get thrown in his face and his a dummy that eats every bit of it up and then calls me wondering where he went wrong. I thought Tony was missing some emotion. Of course that's men though. I wanted more emotion between his mother and him. And the lonelines he must feel away from home so long.

Well feedback required.
I read one of the book The Coldest Winter Ever excellent!
The other looks interesting.

I felt as though there was a lot of unfulfilled potential in the book -- like Tameka just drops off the face of the earth, or as you pointed out, there was room for development of Tony's relationship with his mother.

That being said, though, everything need not be in a single book. I just figured there would be some fallout in Spanish with Tameka. I didn't really picture her as being one who would walk away quietly, nahmean?

Peace.

b/c i'm dying to know what happens with tony & gina (that letter he read her at the end of the book almost made me cry), and you know tameka "the freaka" couldn't just go away quietly...could she?

overall, i think the book was cool...i agree w/nappiness' statement of this not being a "typical" black male fiction book.

here's a question i had: what's up with the fascination with crimson & cream? i'm not even greek and i noticed that the only nphc organizations named were the kappas and the deltas. just wondering.

i have more to add but i have to run to a meeting...back later...:-)

~~wbg~~
AIM: wbgirl218
Chicago 2001...will u be ready?
go here:
http://www.breastcancer3day.org
and here:
http://www.recordkingdom.com

september as ol' school quote month:
"...i'm waiting for the time till i can get to arizona/all my money is spent/on the gotdamn rent/neither party is mine/not the jackass nor the elephant..." (c) chuck d

Yeah I could read a sequel.

I don't know about the whole frat and soror thing but I have the same questions. But I do know this that my girls mostly want to be deltas and my boys are mostly Kappas. I think its because of the red and white thing reminds you so much of a candy cane that there always the first ones to strike to your head.

Did he mention why he wasn't in a frat? I would have been interest in hearing why or why not he would join.

>Did he mention why he wasn't
>in a frat? I
>would have been interest in
>hearing why or why not
>he would join.

potentially silly question...is that "he" referring to tony or to b.? b/c i vaguely remember tony discussing his reasons for not joining, but i could be wrong...

~~wbg~~
AIM: wbgirl218
Chicago 2001...will u be ready?
go here:
http://www.breastcancer3day.org
and here:
http://www.recordkingdom.com

september as ol' school quote month:
"...i'm waiting for the time till i can get to arizona/all my money is spent/on the gotdamn rent/neither party is mine/not the jackass nor the elephant..." (c) chuck d

Yeah Tony my bad for not specifying. I think he did too but I couldn't remember...I remember him always talking about his boys that were in the Frat.

Here's a questions for ya'll. Ummm remember when Gina was like "I'm thinking of taking some time off of school and he was like no no no (surprisingly)." A lot of us are dropping out of school because of money. Some can't pay that high ass tuition bills but other can't just barely scrape by we have to have the luxuries too. I know a lot of folks at school talking about I'm broke but got cell phones, cars, desinger clothes. What's that about? Are we struggling too hard to get the finer things in life that we are not valuing the education. We are only seeing finer things to be material. Not saying that those were her reasons but once you really think about it all you really need is food and a place to live and you should be able to get by fine.

And I say surprisingly because not enough people are voicing their opinions for you to stay. My favorite phrase people always give me is "I understand you gotta do what you gotta do". That's total B.S., you gotta get an education unless you total hate everything about school, learning, and educating your self. People need to be like... I understand its hard but you ain't the only one broke, suck it up, handle your business, and get an education.

Remarks.

tameeka is going to become a born again christian like apolonian. *ha ha*
yeah your right u know she did walk away quietly.
--------sig-----------
Nappiness is next to Godliness!!!
"Poetry is theft, I'm a word kleptomaniac" (c)Patience Agbabi
Ms. Nappiness
http://www.geocities.com/okay_poets/nappiness.html

first, i want to say thanks for checking my work out, and sharing your thoughts. i'm glad that y'all were feeling the book.

you talked about tony being insightful, and that was definitely one of my aims. the book doesn't read like the typical novel (at least not to me) cuz i really wanted to get inside this brother's head to bring out what was going on in there.

re: the title, i had my reservations. then when they showed me the potential cover, w/ the shirtless dude sprawled out on the bed, d'angelo style, i was like, "brothers ain't gonna be checking for this." but i liked the title a lot. the homosexual thing never clicked for me 'til someone mentioned it after i was deep into the writing. to me, the title represented how guys want to keep their "space" (and never really have a good reason). so when a female gets close, we're pushing them away. it was never about pushing ALL women away.

unfulfilled potential...yeah...in some spots i see that. i wrote an article about this on my site. the book deals w/ one slice of tony's life, so not everything was closed or resolved, but looking back on it, i would make some changes, or touch on a few things a bit differently. the writing experience is real, especially the first time out, but i learned a lot to put into the next book.

kappas and deltas...really just picked the ones i knew would probably be everywhere so people could relate. (turns out, when i started the book, at penn kappas, alphas, deltas, and akas were all pretty deep. now, 0 deltas and 0 kappas...go figure...the greek life on the whole seems to be losing numbers though, at least that's what i'm seeing). tony did talk about why he didn't join (kim, hoops, lost interest, already down w/ the "in crowd"). B didn't talk about why he didn't join, but if you wanna know, it was just never his thing.

gina taking time off...i put that out there b/c you're right, it's a real issue. mad cats came through penn for a year or two then disappeared. i think one of the biggest issues is SUPPORT. like the tv show said, "it's a different world." many of us don't find out until year two, and we've got a 1.7 GPA, about to get the bizoot. a lot of freshmen are too immature, and don't have a mentality for success. put them in this hostile, crazy competive environment, and we've got trouble. but this is a whole other activist post (one that i'll be making soon, believe that!).

hope that sheds some light. there's more info about the book on my website, so peep it when you get a chance.

peace-
B

Move Over, Girl: A Novel - in stores NOW
Random House
www.chance22.com

i know u were a little nervous about us reading yo book, but u r okp fam and we try to hook up fam at least with some book sales. thanks for taking time out and responding to the thread. just like i think it's cool for the artists to interact with the boards, i think it was good of u to put your touch on this discussion. u were really a good sport about this, and i hope that this discussion has been a help to you.
So u didn't answer the question is there going to be a sequel????????

--------sig-----------
Nappiness is next to Godliness!!!
"Poetry is theft, I'm a word kleptomaniac" (c)Patience Agbabi
Ms. Nappiness
http://www.geocities.com/okay_poets/nappiness.html

~~wbg~~
AIM: wbgirl218
Chicago 2001...will u be ready?
go here:
http://www.breastcancer3day.org
and here:
http://www.recordkingdom.com

september as ol' school quote month:
"...i'm waiting for the time till i can get to arizona/all my money is spent/on the gotdamn rent/neither party is mine/not the jackass nor the elephant..." (c) chuck d

I love it when artists come out and tell what was on there mind when the were creating. You did put more insight into the book. Thanks a bunch... What were the huddles you felt about writing this book?

~~wbg~~
AIM: wbgirl218
Chicago 2001...will u be ready?
go here:
http://www.breastcancer3day.org
and here:
http://www.recordkingdom.com

september as ol' school quote month:
"...i'm waiting for the time till i can get to arizona/all my money is spent/on the gotdamn rent/neither party is mine/not the jackass nor the elephant..." (c) chuck d

I know I'm late, dammit, but...

Mad props to B for putting the male condition into sensible and real words. Sure, my man was open about his feelings, but dammit, if you can't be real with yourself, it 's all over.

Also, B, you gave out the list of things in the secret brotha handbook. Now we gotta find ya. :)

All in all, a great book which I enjoyed very much, and found the humor and the poignancy in it. I still don't like Gina though. Maybe I've run into too many New York women who think they all that. Yeah, maybe that's it.

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TRoyal
still...