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Topic subjectCreate the ideal Black t.v. show........
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=22&topic_id=20646
20646, Create the ideal Black t.v. show........
Posted by nappiness, Tue Oct-10-00 07:43 PM
bamboozled has sparked this debate over quality t.v. and how Black folks are portrayed. i was thinking to myself what would the ideal Black t.v. show be........
what would be the theme?
cast?
writers, producers, etc.?
what channel would it be on?

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20647, RE: Create the ideal Black t.v. show........
Posted by chap19150, Wed Oct-11-00 08:15 AM
My ideal show would be along the lines of
Good Times or Sanford and Son, they both dealt
with the problems of the average Black household
while still remaining funny. I don't necessarily
see anything wrong with today's Black tv shows, but
to me its just not enough variety in what we have
to watch.

I can't wait until Bamboozled comes out in Philly to,
everybody got me hyped up for it.


"over tones over waves of laughter
under hues deepest blues hereafter
we touch souls and the moment glows
here and now, we are far more than our senses"
-Cassandra Wilson


AIM - chap19150
20648, I AGREE!!!
Posted by Brownsugar, Wed Oct-11-00 10:42 AM
Something like, Sanford and Son, or Good Times!!!:-):-):-)!!!



***TRUE QUOTE***

"The lack of money, is the root of all evil!!!"--Rev. Ike

"Ouch!!!...That hurts!!!:-(

"Yeah Mon!!!":9
20649, I dont get it
Posted by guest, Wed Oct-11-00 11:02 AM
Sanford and Son and Good Times while poignant hardly showed any variety to Black culture- both depending heavily on themes of poverty among Blacks- a condition that may have been troubling but was most certainly not the overall experience of Blacks at the time.

Let's take a look at the characterizations then and now.

Fred Sanford- an old grouchy drunk, persistently involved in the hustle.

John Whitherspoon- (Wayan's Brothers) an old fool, persistently involved in acting silly.

Both are business owners, both very weak impressions of Black fatherhood (even moreso in the case of Fred Sanford), neither really show growth or development in their characterization.

Whats the difference between Sanford and Son and teh Wayan's bros.- where is the variety?

dont you dare say Julio

K
20650, I agree with you...
Posted by chap19150, Wed Oct-11-00 11:38 AM
...that there isn't enough variety, that's what
I said in my inital reply. I was just adressing
the issue of what MY ideal show is.

"over tones over waves of laughter
under hues deepest blues hereafter
we touch souls and the moment glows
here and now, we are far more than our senses"
-Cassandra Wilson


AIM - chap19150
20651, What category?!?
Posted by guest, Wed Oct-11-00 08:28 AM
Black people need a variety of shows- not just one. It depends on what category you mean- as far as action entertainment I suggest animated series from a variety of development teams- Flip Book productions could drop Brother Man, GettoSake comics could drop Chocolate Thunder and I could drop....aw damn y'all aint ready for all that yet.

In the meantime- arent we satisfied with cops?

(dems just jokes y'all)

K
20652, repost..
Posted by BooDaah, Wed Oct-11-00 09:05 AM
the problem exists in the question. how can you have an ideal for millions of people? you never
hear what is the "ideal" white/chinese/latino/czechoslavakian/eskimo show, so why should there be (or how could there be) one that will
satisfy everyone in a culture this diverse. we as a people need to stop buying into the idea that we
have monolithic ideologies because there is no "common" black person.

if folk would concentrate on making the best show they can and remaining true to their vision of whatever they are trying to say (as opposed to doing whatever for the sake of a check), it will either sink or fly. those who
like it will support, those who don't won't. whichever side has the largest grouping will ultimately
win.

there is an old saying about how if you try to satisfy everyone, you'll end up satisfying no one.
20653, I dont think thats right
Posted by guest, Wed Oct-11-00 09:23 AM
"...if you try to satisfy everyone, you'll end up satisfying no one. "

you might satisfy a few people- but being that you cant satisfy everyone- your goal will not be accomplished and you yet will be unsatisfied.

Thats not so catchy though
20654, i believe
Posted by BooDaah, Wed Oct-11-00 09:51 AM
the idea behind the saying is that if you try to satisfy everone you will at some point be faced with compromise which may not do enough to really satisfy anyone.

i believe the phrase is appropriate within the context of this discussion because everytime a "Black show" comes out, SOMEBODY has someting to say in regards to why they don't like it.

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20655, i can dig it...
Posted by guest, Wed Oct-11-00 10:05 AM
But I still dont see nothin beatin COPS
20656, RE: Create the ideal Black t.v. show........
Posted by guest, Wed Oct-11-00 10:10 AM
The problem that I have with the majority of the "black" shows today is that bottom line, the writing sucks. Of all of the shows that are shown on WB or UPN, can you name me one that has actual quality writing? It's like the producers say let's just get some popular minority figures to star on tha show: have a rapper guest star occasionally: throw a lot of materialism and sexuality on there and there's the show. Every now and then I will attempt to watch a UPN or WB show, but I rarely find it an enjoyable experience because there is no real thought put into the episodes. I can't give you a detailed account of why I don't like every show, because I don't watch them all. The only shows that I really watch on a regular basis are Seinfeld, Farscape, Cosby, and occasionally the Simpsons, All In The Family, and Sanford and Son. My idea of the ideal "black" tv show woudl be one that could represent a certain aspect of african american culture and actually have quality writing without blatant emphasis on sex and materialism.

AIM: kaorazen
email: kaorazen@aol.com
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"Issues of a complicated manner, hammer away at my mood, As I stay glued to the possibility that really it's all okay. Silly of me, to think that things would ever go my way, though some do, there's more than few which don't." Grouch

"I tried to keep it all respectable, but your head was 'round my nuts so much, I thought I had an extra testicle." Kaorazen Obsidian Mojo

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20657, are you being fair?
Posted by guest, Wed Oct-11-00 10:19 AM
How many sitcoms in general have good writing- you just named 5 shows out of hundreds and I doubt you could come up with that many more.

Is it any surprise that the writing on Black sitcoms must succumb to bafoonery for humor- certainly not if a great deal of concscious and educated people hardly find humor in sitcoms at all- certainly not if we're willing to admit that bafoonery is by no means a race concern (dont let me take it back to the stooges).

Do you accuse Friends of being misrepresentative of "white" culture- much like any UPN show it shows a very particular segment of cultural impression and that suffices for primetime.

Let's take a look back at the shows we have been collectively fond of-

even Sanford and Son suffered from a variety of stereotypes and characters perceived offensive to some. George Jefferson persistent racism was a perpetual sore on the esteemed image of Black entrepenuership. While Cosby was praised- it too was accused of being horribly simplistic, vague, and unreal.


There is NO right answer- if anything we should stop looking for sitcoms to come up with one.

K
20658, RE: are you being fair?
Posted by guest, Wed Oct-11-00 10:30 AM
I agree that there isn't much on television that is actually worth watching. I also agree with your statement about succumbing to bafoonery for humor. That is exactly the point I am trying to make. But, a problem that I foresee is that if there was a "black" show on television that focused on quality instead of bafoonery, it probably wouldn't last long. First, being that it would be a "black" show, that means the majority of white people would not watch it, and a lot of black people wouldn't watch it, because they would not find it humorous since it would be missing the "bafoonery". Basically, it's like this: If the majority of the characters in the Matrix were black instead of the minority, would the movie have made as much as it did? What about Star Wars and Titanic?

AIM: kaorazen
email: kaorazen@aol.com
----------------------------------------
"Issues of a complicated manner, hammer away at my mood, As I stay glued to the possibility that really it's all okay. Silly of me, to think that things would ever go my way, though some do, there's more than few which don't." Grouch

"I tried to keep it all respectable, but your head was 'round my nuts so much, I thought I had an extra testicle." Kaorazen Obsidian Mojo

"You're still a motherfuckin' slave, it doesn't matter if you're near white, a little light, or blacker than a thousand midnights." Talib Kweli

"How the fuck did we go from being original man to becoming original gangsters?" Kaorazen Obsidian Mojo

"We're all really spirit bodies in a manifested world of form." Dodo Mafioso

"FUCK THE INDUSTRY! Let it rupture, I'm tryin' to keep my family structure stable, no more dreams of trippin' in limos, or shippin' them demos to a shady label." Kaorazen Obsidian Mojo
20659, Watch out now...
Posted by guest, Wed Oct-11-00 10:51 AM
The example is quite clear- there are a few good quality Black shows that have come and gone, and I have to side on the side of the bafoon in most cases.

When i watch tv- im rarely looking for something intellectually enriching- if i was Id be reading or at least watching CNN or CNBC.

We cant obligate humor to decorum that's a paradox- and when we have provided shows with all the integrity in the world they consistently fail- as do most shows with integrity.

as for this... "Basically, it's like this: If the majority of the characters in the Matrix were black instead of the minority, would the movie have made as much as it did? What about Star Wars and Titanic? "

we're talking apples and oranges here- now this is the film world; I understand your point but Blade did remarkably well in the box office and the sequel might do even better. A great deal of the Matrix's appeal was in Morpheus a very strong Black character and there was also Tank and his brother (check the scoreboard at the end of the film- Black people had it locked 3 to 2 on the survivor tip) the ish that threw the movie over the top was martial arts choreography by Yuen Woo Ping- but thats another story. In other news- Pitch Black pretty much passed- but I think everybody who saw it was thoroughly impressed by the work of Vin Diesel (survivor score on that one was 2-1).

Did y'all forget that Rush Hour was the hottest action film out?

K
20660, Interesting television trivia
Posted by guest, Wed Oct-11-00 10:21 AM
Actually Sanford and Son and All in the Family were originally European sitcoms- I wonder how that plays into their demonstration of cultural and character values.
20661, The Real World XIII: Harlem
Posted by los79, Wed Oct-11-00 06:28 PM
How about jumping into the bandwagon and doing a reality based show like survivor, or big brother. Funny how these shows have broken rating records and I ain't even seen one episode. But if you ask me I rather watch the spanish soaps in Univision. Why is it that they pick an all white cast then they throw in one or two minorities? Nah thanks, you haven't impressed me one bit...

The thing is a quality show will not get ratings because of all the closed minds. I'll stick to PBS.
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crowd, What y'all waiting for?
They said,"nothing but that phat shit!"
I got you, say no more"
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20662, good thought BUT.....
Posted by daveyg, Thu Oct-12-00 03:19 AM
what's your definition of ideal show, i mean is there an ideal show protraying latin americans, native americans, caucasion americans, asian americans? seriously.....what and how would that happen, cuz your ideal would and is different then the next kids ideal....face it tv is tv and tv is wack (for the most part :) )
peace
w/love
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i might officially be the only
okayplayer from, iowa, if i'm
not...please correct me...if i am
i hope to do my state well...or
something...:)

if it's not worth your time it's not
worth your thought...don't
stress...you're only hurtin yourself..
**my other site i fancy**
http://www.mslick.com
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hit me up...i got lots of time

20663, soul food - showtime n/m
Posted by ChocoBliss, Thu Oct-12-00 04:33 AM

20664, Is that show good?
Posted by guest, Thu Oct-12-00 06:30 AM
I mean i was impressed that Showtime put it on- but paying for the channel just to see one show is beyond me.


20665, was different world multi-dimensional?
Posted by nappiness, Thu Oct-12-00 04:53 AM
i think that one show can touch on the many facets of Black life and Black people. I think different world tried to bring a lot of experiences together and I think that was reflective of real life. I think in general every Black family has the person with a little money, the person who is the crack head, the old person with wisdom, the holier than though, born again christian(or whateva religion), the gossiper, etc. etc. etc. so i think that a family show could do this.

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Monthly Book Discussion in OkayActivist
Sept. 19 "Move Over Girl" Brian Peterson
Oct. 16 "Yo Mama's Dysfunktional" Robin Kelley
Nov. 13 "Coldest Winter Ever" Sister Souljah
GET YO READ ON .........
nappiness is next to Godliness!!!!!!
ms. nappiness
----------
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20666, it already exists...
Posted by AFKAP_of_Darkness, Thu Oct-12-00 06:29 AM
it's called "the PJs." 8.30 ET sunday nights on the WB. catch it if you ain't already.

by the way, all of y'all naming "good times" and "sanford & son," you know those shows were largely produced, written and directed by whites, right?

20667, I tried to tell them
Posted by guest, Thu Oct-12-00 06:32 AM
Florida and James left the show cuz they didnt feel it was ideal.

you watched that Good Times special too eh?
20668, RE: Create the ideal Black t.v. show........
Posted by guest, Mon Oct-16-00 07:47 AM
i think the ideal tv show would mix elements of the cosbys/different world, with a variety type format. Cartoons/special guests, etc.
20669, RE: Create the ideal Black t.v. show........
Posted by guest, Mon Oct-16-00 09:29 AM
I wonder what we would rather see, struggling black families, or bourgoisie? which is closer to reality?

--just for thought, y'all. these have ALL been decent shows, sure, but variety is key, I agree.


I think the best show would be to take that dude that does the comics on OkayPlayer, and give him a full-length animated show, with biting social.

That's what I want.
20670, Roc
Posted by murph25, Tue Oct-17-00 06:16 PM
Now, I'm not black, so I'm not gonna try to pass judgment on which shows are "better for black people", but I will offer my opinion as a viewer.

The first two seasons of the show Roc were probably the best example to date of a TV series that centered on a black family. Charles Dutton and the rest of the cast were really solid actors. The writing was way better than what most sit-coms, and it bridged the serious issues with comic situations. So, maybe that show could serve as a model for what TV producers CAN do if they get the right talent together.

Of course, FOX was willing to take a lot of chances back when they showed Roc (i.e. Garry Shandling, Get a Life, etc) Nowadays, the sit-coms that make it to air don't take those kind of risks. One of the things that made Roc successful in its first couple seasons was that it had real money behind it. A lot of the "black-oriented" programming on UPN and WB seems to be thrown together on these shoestring budgets, and that really hurts them across the board: writing, directing, sets, etc.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

peace,
murph
20671, Ill give it to you
Posted by guest, Tue Oct-17-00 11:33 PM
Roc was a VERY good show that brought back all the properties that were favorable in Norman lear's productions.

20672, The Corner
Posted by guest, Tue Oct-17-00 11:35 PM
What do you guys think- this show is poignant and not the least bit exploitave but nonetheless depicts a very unfortunate circumstances for Blacks in america.

could this show count as an ideal Black TV show?


The question is- does "ideal" preclude depictions of realities that arent?

K
20673, RE: The Corner
Posted by AFKAP_of_Darkness, Fri Oct-20-00 11:20 PM
man... i don't know if i can call it an "ideal" show... aesthetically, it's very, very good. very, very real. i don't know if i've ever in my life been more depressed by a television show.

but the thing about it is, as real as the characters are, i couldn't help but think that the REAL character in the story was "the corner"... and beyond that, heroin itself. in that light, i don't even think of it as a "black" show, but as a case study (which dave simon's book actually was) of how heroin affects families and communities, regardless of race.

20674, For your love....
Posted by guest, Wed Oct-18-00 01:20 AM
is a cute little show that shows people of different races getting along without focusing so much on the fact that they are different races. The Hughley's on the other hand, focuses too much on race. In every show, D.L. has something to say about, "white folks" etc. It gets tiring after a while. I don't know about everyone else, but I work and interact socially with people of different races all the time and the fact that we are of different races doesn't come up that much. I really dug the Cosby Show even though some said that it wasn't realistic, but I must argue with that. Contrary to popular belief, there are some very successful Black families in this country. I couldn't relate on a personal level, but I damn sure found it believable.

Hey, I don't know, maybe it's just me.

Just as long as they don't bring "Homeboys in Outer Space" back, I'm cool.

My fav shows are/were:
Seinfeld (Wish it wasn't gone)
Martin (Wish it wasn't gone)
Friends
For your Love
The Simpsons
Moesha
Frasier
Felicity
Charmed
Dawson's Creek
Young Americans
Star Trek (Next Generations/Voyager)
Earth Final Conflict
Xena
Popular
Sister Sister
Will & Grace
The Cosby Show
..........I could go on.






20678, DAM !!!! Black Sci-Fi and Political Shows
Posted by guest, Wed Oct-18-00 09:09 PM
If we were to ideal t.v. it would be based on images Black people don't see all the time.

The Channel: The Freedom Network

My three main shows:

The Shadows of Power: It's about a Black President and a government ran by mostly minorities and how they must maintain the US Government against deception from corrupt White Men and Uncle Tom Negroes. In one season the Black government was threatened with a Race War, Drug War, Bio-War, Area-51 War, The Alien Invasion, and a Nuclear War.

Third Earth: What would the New World Order be like under the Black People. How would Earth Government and a United Military protect the planet.


The Grand Finale.


StarForce: The Intergalatic Alliance: I always wanted to make a Sci-Fi adventure that was Star Trek, Star Wars, Babylon 5, Robotech,and Voltron. The StarForce is alot like Starfleet, United Federation of Planets, Rebel Alliance, Interstellar Alliance, Robotech Defense Force, and Galaxy Garrison.

We have star carriers like the SDF-1 from Robotech, USS Explorer from Voltron, and the USS Midway from Wing Commander Prophecy. We have star fighters like the Alpha's from Robotech: Sentinels when Scott Bernard fought the Invid.

The uniforms will be Black body suits like the new Star Fleet uniforms on Deep Space Nine. Except they will be all black with tank top shirts under them. They will be form fitting for women and they have the option to wear a mini skirt instead of pants. the girls will wear spike-heeled or platform knee and ankle boots. All kinds of females black/white, black /hispanic, black/asian, creole, you know ice cream honeys.

We'll be the leaders of the galaxy even aliens will need our help as saviors of space.

We will have guest stars such as Alliyah, Monica, Brady, Destiny's Child, Colin Powell, DMX, Jay-Z, Denzel Washington, Wesley Snipes. Halle Berry and Louis Farrakan

It will be up there with Star Trek and because it teaches Black people to have a superior vision about themselves. Black people don't understand world government and others things.

Barriers that can be broken:

More Black can understand science fiction as an instructional tool.
Teach Black people morals and values.
Give kids a role model a real show to watch not Pokemon.
Black women playing in sci-fi roles which are in very serious situations. Live or Die
Through Brain Washing from sub-conscious messages program minds of Black People to accept Earth World Government, StarForce Command, Intergalatic Alliance, Galatic Monetary System, Retina Scans, Microchip Implants, Bionic Parts,Nureal Implants, Genetic Enhancements, Star Drives. Terra-Forming and Power over the galaxy.

*How many females would be in a show like this?
*Can you image Black females talking about the season finale?
*We be running along side the Star trek Conventions?
*Females wlll stop talking about Jerry Springer and more about hyper-drives and battles.
*We can make action figures and PC Games.
20679, whoa... you're pretty serious about this!
Posted by AFKAP_of_Darkness, Thu Oct-19-00 07:55 AM
do you already have it in development of something?

i'll be back with more comments in a bit.

20680, RE: whoa... you're pretty serious about this!
Posted by chap19150, Thu Oct-19-00 08:00 AM
I was thinking the same thing!


"over tones over waves of laughter
under hues deepest blues hereafter
we touch souls and the moment glows
here and now, we are far more than our senses"
-Cassandra Wilson


AIM - chap19150
20681, Using Sci-Fi at all levels!!!
Posted by guest, Thu Oct-19-00 10:00 AM
The West Wing:

http://www.testytoads.com/TWW/


StarForce Ideas:

http://www.Kent.net/robotech/ship/index.shtm

http://www.Kent.net/robotech/ships/rdf/sdf-1.shtm

I only like fighter mode.

http://www.Kent.net/robotech/mecha/ref/Alpha_fighter.shtml

United Federation of Planets

http://www.geocities.com.0080/Area51/1658/ufp.html

http://www.netmoon.com/startrek/uniform/contact.htm

Babylon5

http://hyperspace.isnnews.net

http://hyperspace.isnnews.net/inter/index.html

http://hyperspace.isnnews.net/ea/index.html

Star Wars X-Wing Alliance

http://www.lucasarts.com/products/alliance

http://www.lucasarts.com/static/xvt/xvframes2.htm

Wing Commander Prophecy

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/1407/wcpfighter.htm

20682, RE: DAM !!!! Black Sci-Fi and Political Shows
Posted by los79, Thu Oct-19-00 07:01 PM
You imagine the X files with both FBI agents being black? Would it be a combination of New York Undercover (I loved that show) and Men In Black.

Wait a minute I have a great idea! Forget about all those Sci Fi shows...lets go back to talk shows. Arsenio Hall...If I was head of the WB or UPN I would bring back Arsenio. He was the man and still is (1800collect comercials) and that will feature okayplayer artist as musical guest. I remeber when tribe was up in that joint, I was like "Oh shit!"
---------------------------------------
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See what happens if you keep talking
See what happens if you lay a finger
on me mother fucker
...see what I'm saying?
it's like one big mind game that
everybody playing and..."
-Talib Kweli, Love Language

"Take shots at Big Ben like we got
time to kill"
-Method Man