why do so many vegetarians eat fish?

I think it depends on why someone is a vegetarian. Strictly speaking, of course, a vegetarian does not eat fish. But there are many people who have cut red meat from their diets for health reasons and then it's an easy next step to chicken but fish is seen as more healthy than either of these two.

I am not currently a vegetarian but I was for several years. One of the reasons that I returned to eating meat was that I needed some balance in my life. I found that once I started cutting out meat (all of it, including fish) on principle, eggs came next, then all milk products, then of course I couldn't wear leather, and pretty soon I wasn't eating certain vegetables and no wheat or yeast. It got to be pretty difficult to feed and clothe myself. :-)

Peace.

it's true that once you get started you get crazy. i eat fish because there's a sense of lost community that comes from being a vegetarian, and because veggie food can be so hard to come by sometimes. but there's no ideaology behind it. an animal is an animal, whether it's breathing air or water (please don't get technical with me about this one...)

but is there ideology behind it for some people? (non-biblical)

What's the deal with wheat and yeast? I've heard of people cutting out wheat, but no one has really told me why (other than s/he was allergic to wheat or thought s/he might be). What about yeast? Surely not because they're animals? (Strictly speaking, aren't they protozoa?)

I have heard of vegetarians eating shrimp because, supposedly, shrimp do not have nerve endings in their bodies and don't feel pain when killed.

Then there's the issue of cheese... Cheese is made (usually) with rennet, which comes from the cow's stomach lining, which means the animal is killed anyway...

(I'm not a vegetarian although I don't eat much meat, anyway)

--Joe C
"Gyrofrog"
-----
http://www.io.com/~jcastle

There were two reasons: First, many people have an allergic sensitivity to yeast that causes reactions like hypoglycemia. Second, almost every prepared food has yeast in it, so it may have been a backwards way of getting away from pre-packaged foods. There are some really great yeast free breads that became kind of a meat substitute for me.

But, hey, I didn't eat cauliflower, brussels sprouts or mushrooms either.

This was supervised by a nutritional herbologist -- I didn't think it up on my own. (Although he wasn't the person who stopped me from wearing leather. That was a real trick, since at the time I rode a motorcycle as my sole means of transportation).

There are plenty of people who believe that the big problem with red meat is that the adrenaline that courses through the flesh of the animal at slaughter causes aggression in the person eating the meat. If it was just a matter of ethical slaughter, there are lots of options. Kosher meat is usually killed ethically, lambs don't struggle (I hear), and I just saw in my local organic market a sign about the chicken that they sell being raised with "respect" (no comments on the technique used to kill the chickens).

Peace.

>>But, hey, I didn't eat cauliflower, brussels sprouts or mushrooms either.

why not? a taste thing? i never heard of that before...

I loved all of them. He said that they are hybrids and unhealthy. Again, this was supervised and also included an herb regimen (notably garlic. Damn I took a lot of garlic in those days -- garlic is a blood purifier).

Peace.

that's tough.

you took garlic or ate garlic? you mean like the capsules?

Although because I didn't eat the gelatin capsules I would break 'em open and drink 'em in warm water. Ugh!

Peace.

why not just sit down and munch a raw head of garlic? or roast a head of garlic or somethin'? why take a pill?

Peace.

remember those total commercials in teh 80's? i wonder how many bulbs of raw garlic d'ya think ya'd hafta eat to equal one of those capsules?

oh that yeast thing cracks me up, and i agree about wheat--any macrobiotics out there? (isn't that what it's called...?)

>>I have heard of vegetarians eating shrimp because, supposedly, shrimp do not have nerve endings in their bodies and don't feel pain when killed.

is that what makes an animal an animal? please, that's ridiculous... but, then again, it's not really about pain to me in the first place, so....

>>Then there's the issue of cheese... Cheese is made (usually) with rennet, which comes from the cow's stomach lining, which means the animal is killed anyway...

yeh, so many vegetarians won't eat rennet cheese. or filtered sugar or salt. or medicine made with gelatin... see what i mean about lost sense of community? i mean, it's all fine and good when ya cook for yaself and ya have enough cash to be picky, but what ya never eat with friends? ya only have veg friends? what a ridiculous way to limit yourself....

That is correct. Gelatin capsules are not vegetarian.

Country Life makes good vitamins that are in fact vegetarian. There are some others out there now, more than there used to be.

Peace.

ya gotta watch the nongelatin capsules that you read carefully because sometimes you will find they're gelatin free but have cod liver oil or vice versa...

most drugstore vitamins have gelatin. most meds have gelatin.

You have to read the labels. Here in SF most grocery stores have organic foods and vegetarian vitamins. Country Life is also one of only a few that manufacture yeast free vitamins.

Peace.

>or filtered sugar or salt.

Now I remember hearing of this, too, but I can't remember the reason behind it... Please explain...

Also I never had "macrobiotics" straight... Doesn't it mean as little processing as possible? e.g. whole grains instead of baked bread. Although that "least-processing" sounds like what Rastafarians call "I-tal" but my memory's hazy with that, too...

Thanx...


--Joe C
"Gyrofrog"
-----
http://www.io.com/~jcastle

sugar and salt--> filtered through bone chard

macrobiotic--> i've been curious, but never asked. i especially always wondered about the wheat thing...

>sugar and salt--> filtered through bone chard

No kidding? So presumably, kosher salt is processed differently?

I used to wonder what the hell kosher salt was, I mean what's the difference, do they slaughter it differently? ;-) But the bone chard, or lack thereof, would make sense...

Thanx...


--Joe C
"Gyrofrog"
-----
http://www.io.com/~jcastle

i have no idea what kosher salt is. good question... what does it LOOK like? is it more along the lines of natural sugar? see salt? hmmmmm........

make that SEA salt

huuuuh huuuh huuuuhh

I've only seen it on bagels (looks like rock salt), I haven't seen it for sale by itself. But out of curiosity, I will go look!

Now that you've mentioned it, I wondered if sea salt is unfiltered (and thus both kosher and vegetarian)...

--Joe C
"Gyrofrog"
-----
http://www.io.com/~jcastle

any news?

>any news?

Here's what I've found:

http://www.pathfinder.com/FoodWine/ask/90120.html

Apparently, any salt is "kosher", i.e. fit for consumption. But kosher salt is coarse and flaky, and better suited for drwaing the blood out of meat (so as to make the meat kosher).

Are you sure about the bone filtering? I would think that would come into conflict in one way or another...


--Joe C
"Gyrofrog"
-----
http://www.io.com/~jcastle

When I was a teenager I stopped eating pork because I believed only poor people ate it. I am from the south and it was a big issue in my family. After high school I moved to NYC and discovered tofu, soy protein and the more veggetarian food I found the less meat I ate. Out went the red meat, chicken and eventually fish. However, unless you live in NYC where veggie restaraunts abound then you're ass out, especially if you don't know how to prepare the food.

I was macrobiotic for a time and I got really sick so I started eating milk products, eggs and occasionally fish again to stay healthy. I never went back to pork, chicken or red meat.

"Know thyself"

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

yeh, i was eating a piece a chicken one day and wondered what it would be like to be a vegetarian. 10 years later, while in panama, i started eating some fish--when i realized there was one vegetarian restaurant in all of panama city.

if you research it and like the kinky foods like grain and tofu, vegan diets and macro and all that--raw foods even, are good for you..... but if you don't eat the right things, you should be eating meat.

but i think ny is the only place where mcdonalds has veggie burgers? oh yeh, and london. in london bk and all kindsa places have veg.

Ive been a vegetarian since 1991. I do indulge in cheese though. But fish I cant tolerate. Well, I have never tried but the whole scales throw me off. MORNINGSTAR FARMS is my love my love...
vegetarian: Bacon, Chicken Nuggets, Chick Patties, Sausage, Burgers, Hot pockets, Corn Dogs, Hot dogs, Ground Meat....what more could we ask for?????
I cant wait for the steak, fish, and ham products by Morningstar.
From Philly and never indulged in a cheesesteak!!!gasp



"rollin phillys actin silly"--DeeLite

"Lifes bigger than Men/Cars/Clout N Gear--Cuz the one you love shouldnt be the One you Fear"---Goldi

"So what if I think other girls r cute?"--Goldis subconcience

FUKK THE CORPORATE WORLD>....well I plan on tellin my boss that when I give mai 2 weeks....

have you ever had those fake ribs?

tofurkey? (i thought that stuff was a nightmare)

i can't really dig fake meat, but baked tofu is the best. soyboy. yeeeehhhhh.

>have you ever had those fake
>ribs?
>
>tofurkey? (i thought that stuff was
>a nightmare)


Tofurkey, or are they from Now and Zen (makers of Unturkey).

I went to this "Natural Foods Expo" in Baltimore last year as well as last month (it's basically just a bunch of suits walking around doing bizness as usual, only they think they're better than the rest because their bizness is "organic"; I just go for the free food and beer :) ]

Anyway, I thought the unribs were divine!

Speaking on the Morningstar issue, I don't eat anything by Morningstar as I'm vegan and most of their products contain some sort of unfertilized chicken embryo product, but I can tell you that the Health is Wealth meatless Buffalo Wings are pretty tasty. I too am not much a fan of the fake meat stuff, but for those who are, be on the lookout for a new line from a company called "Veggie Chef". Specially their Black Pepper Steak.


>i can't really dig fake meat,
>but baked tofu is the
>best. soyboy. yeeeehhhhh.

Soyboy's baked tofu is certainly the best, and it's incredibly thick and filling! People look at me eating it raw for lunch right out of the package like I'm some sort of monster. The "Smoke and Fire" company make some tasty baked and smoked tofu products as well.

awwwww yeh

there was another kind of baked tofu that used to be great but is horrible now...comes in 4 pieces...

see, you can bake your own tofu, but it's SO MUCH WORK!

Morning Star is the best! I'll never eat meat again. I even have my meat-lover friends hooked on their products :) I wonder if they can make a soy product taste like fish.

"Know thyself"

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

i heard once about fake shrimp... i would love to see what it looks like......

A Vegetarian is someone that refrains from eating animals. This includes red meat, white meat, fish and derivitives thereof like gelatin.

Vegan's as well as not eating the above, also do not eat animal by products like cheese, milk and honey.

I have been a Vegetarian since 1988 and to be quite frank, peoples misconceptions and claims to Vege/Veganness when they eat fish and sea animals pisses me the fizuck off.

Thank you. :-)

Peace,

TankdotcomGreen

http://www.recordkingdom.com aka www.vinylnerdsarehappy.com

http://www.tankgreen.com - Coming to a browser near you soon...

i used to be upset about people sayin they're veg when, for example, they still eat chicken and fish, or they still eat fish, or even when all they eat is dairy and fake meat-

but, really, what is it about, anyway?
(depends on why you're veg in the first place)

i just like to see more people movin in the veg direction, whether it means not eating red meat or not eating cooked vegetables or whatever

vegetarianism isn't a club or a special honor or award. it's a way of life that involves limiting or excluding personal use of animal products.

However, vegetarians do not eat animals, it's that fucking simple.

I am not saying people should be vegetarian, I am just clarifying issues. Americans can be so half arsed about shit and claim they are something without doing half of the work.

>a way of life that
>involves limiting or excluding personal
>use of animal products.

That's called healthy eating, NOT vegetarianism.

Peace,

TankdotcomGreen

http://www.recordkingdom.com aka www.vinylnerdsarehappy.com

http://www.tankgreen.com - Coming to a browser near you soon...

>>However, vegetarians do not eat animals, it's that fucking >>simple.
>>I am not saying people should be vegetarian, I am just >>clarifying issues. Americans can be so half arsed about shit >>and claim they are something without doing half of the work.

yes, it is that simple. looking for a clearcut definition of vegetarian? that's exactly right. but i think it goes deeper than that in practice.

really, someone who is not technically but tries to be in practice a vegetarian should not be isolated from a vegetarian movement. no need to isolate anybody. already vegetarians have a reputation for being snobs. what do you have to gain from being snobby?

>a way of life that
>involves limiting or excluding personal
>use of animal products.

>>That's called healthy eating, NOT vegetarianism.

that's not healthy eating. go eat a bucket of fries or chips or whatever and wash it down with a gallon of oil and tell me how healthy you are.

man, summa the things you can make with soy...

>really, someone who is not technically
>but tries to be in
>practice a vegetarian should not
>be isolated from a vegetarian
>movement. no need to isolate
>anybody.

I am not saying that we need to isolate anyone, all I am saying is that people who eat animals are not vegetarians. No matter how infrequently they do it. The same way I do not think men can be feminists, but they can be whole hearted supporters of, people who eat animals are not vegetarians, but they can support the movement.

>that's not healthy eating. go eat
>a bucket of fries or
>chips or whatever and wash
>it down with a gallon
>of oil and tell me
>how healthy you are.

I was about to sigh something about semantics, but then I realised the entire point of this post was just that... :-)

Peace,

TankdotcomGreen

http://www.recordkingdom.com aka www.vinylnerdsarehappy.com

http://www.tankgreen.com - Coming to a browser near you soon...

yeh i guess it's kinda funny that i'm gettin upset at you for bein technical about one thing then i'm doin the same thing about the other

anyway, support the movement/ part of the movement/ whatever, as long as they don't HATE the movement...

i've been a veggie since '84 and i think it's bogus that they try to make all these different levels of veggie-ness, but that's just how it is.....

peace....
willy

"My granddaddy told me to whip tha pussy, don't let da pussy be the whiiiiiip" -E-40

there's different levels of vegitarianism.....the most hardcore being vegan, meaning no nothing that was ever living or came from a living thing, they're the people that don't drink milk even....next is lacto-ovo , which is what i am, no actual meat , but we do drink milk, eat eggs and cheese ect. then comes the ones that eat only white meat, such as chicken or fish, i think there's another level after that but i can't remmember what it's all about......

peace....
willy

>there's different levels of vegitarianism.....the most
>hardcore being vegan

Actually there is a "level" that is even more "hardcore" than being vegan, it is called "fruitarian". The basic belief in being fruitarian is that you do not eat anything that was once living. This basically means that you do not eat anything where you had to kill the animal (obvious) or even the plant in order to subsist from it. This would include famouse root vegetables such as carrots, potatoes, beets, parsnips, and well the list could go on forever. In order to eat something such as lettuce the fruitarian would have to make sure that the lettuce leaves were cut so that the plant as a whole were to live. Same witch vegetables such as chard, kale, , broccoli and other vegetables where you can simply cut the head off without actually "killing" the plant as a whole.

I myself am vegan, have been for 5 years now; vegetarian for much longer than that. I understand the logic of being fruitarian I just have not been able to progess to that level.

If anything I've regressed to being an almost freegan (entirely different post).

Peace,
Chris

meaning a vegan who oscillates toward fruitarian?

i've thought about root vegetables before. i didn't realize it was a whole movement. but i can understand it, anyway.

are there freegan restaurants? freegan groups?

>meaning a vegan who oscillates toward
>fruitarian?

No, a freegan is simply someone who only eats animal products
when these products are given to them for free. My main objection to eating animal products is an ethical choice, but if I am given that animal product for free, it's not my money that is supporting something which I do not believe in. Of course there is the arguement that someone still had to pay for that animal product, and that is why I try to avoid accepting free handouts whenever I can. But there are those times when I'm broke, hungry and can't refuse a slice of soycheese (with casein)pizza.

Speaking of soy cheese (someone else mentioned it), vegan cheeses (Soymage, Vegan Rella and Soya Kass has a new vegan line)do not melt very easily. Most soy/rice cheeses have casein, a protein derived from milk, which enables them to melt better.

Try Nutritional yeast. It's that really light-weight yellow in colour stuff. Don't get it confused with brewers yeast! Nutritional yeast is very nutrious (contains lots of beneficial bacteria) and has a "cheezey" flavour. Just mix it with a little water and oil until it takes on the desired consistency.

Peace,
Brady

i completely completely completely understand this. ideally, if someone makes me dinner, and there's only meat, i will even eat it (but this is a BIG, HARD, step, because just bein in the presence of meat makes me feel like i'm trippin or walkin into a jaws movie or somethin)...

cuz there's always been the gift issue; someone buys you a leather somethin or another (i always just give them away right away. there is ALWAYS someone around drooling over the leather-not that i get so many leather gifts, heh heh)

and then people tease me about a pair of leather shoes that i've had for about 12-13 years (i've been veg for 10)...

I don't have any connections for this any more, but I was able when I was vegan occasionally and at a very high price to find leather goods made from animals who died of natural causes. So the big question was, were the purveyors of these goods, who were purporting that the animal wasn't slaughtered, honest? I mean, anyone could stick a label on something that says that.

I also recall a belt that I had, the buckle for which was made from "seasonally shed deer antler."

Ah, those were the days.

Peace.

a few weeks ago, someone asked me if i would eat an animal that was killed accidentally. i thought they were joking! i thought they were just drunk! i had this picture in my head of a bunch of drooling vegetarians sitting roadside or by a cattle farm or somethin so that maybe they could get a burger-- like if a pig happened to fall on a spit you just scored bacon for the next week--

i can't believe people market that stuff!!!

anyway, i wouldn't spend my own money on it cuz i just don't eat meat or wear meat. but then if someone bought it for me or gave it to me (oooooh, my family would LOVE to hear this! this is the kinda thing, like tofurkey, that they just dig and dig and dig)

i think i would just plain be distressed

I never did eat it, but as I said in an earlier post, I rode a motorcycle as my sole means of transportation, and the best protection for your body is leather, not denim or anything else. So I was grateful when I found a jacket I could feel halfway decent about buying.

Peace.

Certain Buddhists, who each day go out with their begging bowls, and who take vows not to kill any living creature, find that they can eat whatever is given to them without spiritual distress, because of the filter that is provided by the charitable giving.

For me, however, begging for my food isn't really an option. I think I have qualms about this working in any society that isn't structured to incorporate it.

Peace.

see, i think i would want to eat meat for the community, and it depends on the context of the begging as to the communality of the thing (i made up that word. does it work?)

charity just freaks me out. i read a quote once that was something like "what is wonting in this world is justice, not charity," and i deeply believe this

i am very stuck on fending for myself. but, if i was dependent on begging for food, i would eat what i got. because ya gotta eat to live. but if you're always dependent on begging you lose all your power of choice. how could a person choose to be a begger and a vegetarian??? (i know very little about buddhism)

Letting go of attachment is a very important Buddhist principle. So the practice of eating only what is given to you works within that, especially in a Buddhist country where living simply is not only seen as a good in itself but is something that many people do for at least a part of their lives.

Giving from the heart is another basic principle. There's a whole doctrine surrounding gracious giving -- all charitable acts are good, but particularly when you're giving away more than your excess or discards. This is also, incidentally, one of the corporal works of mercy in Catholicism (prayer, fasting and almsgiving).

I'm always intrigued by the commonalities (similar to but not the same as your made up word) between religions, which so often can be found at the highest level of idealism even if not in practice.

Peace.

>Letting go of attachment is a
>very important Buddhist principle.
>So the practice of eating
>only what is given to
>you works within that, especially
>in a Buddhist country where
>living simply is not only
>seen as a good in
>itself but is something that
>many people do for at
>least a part of their
>lives.

On a semi-related note...

I remember reading somewhere that Buddhist monks have to accept whatever is given to them during their begging rounds. There was an anecdote about a monk who ate a leper's thumb that fell in his begging bowl, and the Buddha himself supposedly died from food poisoning--either from poisonous mushrooms or bad meat.


----------------------------------------
Densetsu no hitokiri, Himura Battousai.

"Me love technology!" - Cookie Monster

I hadn't heard that. Ick. I wonder why the leper didn't ask for his thumb back? Barf.

Peace.

i had never heard of fuitarian before.....by the way, no disrespect was ment by reffering to veganism as hardcore...i truly respect anyone that has the self discipline to do that....i find vegitarinism eaisy but veganism or fruitarian would be super hard.....

peace,
willy

yo..for whatever reason...be it health..be it animal love..i don't give a fuck..eat what you wanna eat..call it what you wanna call it..

BUt don't..i swear DO NOT...come into my restaurant..claim you're veggie...so i clean the grill..get special cooking utensils that haven't touched meat..and your ass got FISH or shrimp in ure food..ahh heyll NO..

veggie is vegatables!!! period.

Much love,
Kyle

Surgeon General- DPS...drunk posters society...y'all ain't ready!?!? We soldiers...don't be scurrrrrred

vinyl junkies/cd confitionados...go here
http://www.recordkingdom.com

"i always tell people that fame is
nothing but a good publicist, while
talent is a genuine article..." ~ Pozi

does that happen often?

I do not eat beef or pork. I eat very little chicken, turkey or fish....I am on the verg of not eating those either. I do however will probally still eat dairy products and some seafood...why are you or anyone else able to define what I am and why??
-webster dictionary reads - Vegetarian(someone who practices vegetarianism).....Vegetarianism( the THEORY of PRACTICE of living on a diet made of vegetable, fruits, grains, nuts ,seeds and sometimes with or without eggs and dairy products.

there is a name and a definition for everything. ya want a name, there is one for it. but screw it, really, eat what ya wanna eat. whatever feels right to you.

i am happy, though, to see that the webster definition allows some freedom. sometimes i get a little concerned that super restricted eating is too much like eating disorder stuff or maybe that vegetarianism is attached too much to virtue...

VERY TRUSE AND THANKS, I DO AND I WILL!!

it happens quite often..


OSHUN..the only reason i am stating this is..veggies that eat only veggies would NOT want fish and shrimp in their food...respecting that...you as a sometimes meat eater should be cordial enough to ask if they used things that didn't touch red meat..NOT veggie utensils...do you see my point?..did that make sense..

Cause if it's important enough to you..most restaurants will comply..that is all.

Much love,
Kyle

Made official by MISS UrbanCowgRRL
Surgeon General... - DPS...drunk posters society...y'all ain't ready!?!? We soldiers...don't be scurrrrrred


"i always tell people that fame is
nothing but a good publicist, while
talent is a genuine article..." ~ Pozi

the biggest problem when I was vegetarian/vegan was to get restaurants to tell me whether they used chicken or beef stock in their soups. It didn't take long for me to figure out that I just couldn't rely on what the waiter said, even if the waiter asked the chef. So I never ordered soup at a restaurant, with one exception.

There was one restaurant that served the best soups I've ever had, and always used vegetable stock, but then it was a vegetarian restaurant with lots of vegan options.

Peace.

I've been a lacto-ova vegetarian for 5 years. I still eat cheese. I've tried be a vegan but it's hard especially when eating out anywhere that is not a vegetarian restaurant.

Anyway the question is does anyone know any good brands of soycheese. I've tried a couple and they were not very good.
Thanks.

whaddyawanna use it for? that makes all the difference.

if you can find hemp cheese, though, that stuff rocked my world (hahah dramatic, eh?)-but i think maybe it was pulled?

but the main question, really, is whether you plan to melt the cheese, cook with it, or eat it straight--

Shredded for tacos.
Melted on a garden burger

That's about all. I don't eat that much cheese mainly for the above.

make sure you check out post #50...

I will try some of those.