But what we've had is desegregation.

>I've heard in the past few
>weeks how intergration weakened the
>black community, especially black buisnesses?

Basically, the white man's ice is colder. Black folks don't come out and support our own unless we are legally forced to.

There are very few things that American Black people have to go to American black businesses for.

- soul food - and most black folks I know don't go anywhere where they can make the food themselves

- church - not really a business per se...

- hair care - I can count the # of time I've had my hair cut outside of a black barbershop.

- Black art/books - Nkiru books, et cetera.

>Didn't it
>allow blacks access to things
>that were previously denied to
>us?

Education. Since state colleges are better funded then HBCU's, this was a major advance. Access to higher ed is important. But from k-12 is where we have run into problems. Many black neighborhoods don't have the tax base to really fund their school districts. Furthermore there is a huge disconnect between educators and students in many of our neighborhoods. We need more African American teachers, and better support from our communities for those teachers.

What my friends father
>was telling me was that
>that maybe true but what
>happened was that it allowed
>whites into our communties to
>make money instead of spending
>money (at blue/jazz clubs). and
>took the money that was
>going to the the black
>buisnesses, mainly because people started
>going elsewhere to shop ie
>sears or wards, the big
>stores where we weren't allowed
>to shop.

Shopping is one thing, but let me break down my monthly expenses.

35% goes to rent
5% to utilities
11% to groceries
8% to auto
10% to school loans/credit
2% to laundry/dry cleaning

72% of my total income is spent by the time I get my check. And 100% of that is going to white folks in one way or another. The grocery stores and gas stations in black neighborhoods are not owned by the residents.

My disposable income does trickle down to some black folks, via wax purchases, movies, concerts. But My economic life is pretty much dominated by white folks. And it's not a cycle I can easily break. If it were as easy as just moving changing phone companies all of us would be doing it.

>You see the
>same thing happeing now, blacks
>more willing to spend they're
>money elsewhere than in they're
>communities. Is this an
>irreversible affect?

I would say yes. Black folks, unlike their Afrikan or Caribbean counterparts, don't have a real imperative to stick together. Hell, the cultural effects seems to fall off for the Afrikan's and Caribbeans after 2 or 3 generations. Eric Liu commented on how 3rd and 4th generation Asians, often don't conform to the geek stereotype and are academically on par with their white counterparts.

I've always wondered
>how it is so easy
>for these middle eastern people
>to open up corner stores,
>and asians with beauty supply
>and discount clothing stores.

It's a couple of things. You see the same thing with Mexican nationals, but not so much with Mexican Americans. I think it's called the immigrant effect.

But the usual strategy is that you stay with a better established family, learn their family business, and then open your shop in another part of town. Or you open a business that specifically caters to your community.

This is my one of my favorite topics, and I'm always looking for data on it.

>With this said.... the question still
>stands is intergration good or
>bad? At this point
>i'm not sure. Please discuss.

It can be, provided that we realize what kind of struggles are ahead.

peace
k. orr