a quote from Boodah...
i think about this a lot it seems cats wanna have the the physical and intangible essence of Blackness but not the other shit that comes wit' it!

take it or leave, just me evaluation...

Let's expound

i think about this a lot it seems cats wanna have the the physical and intangible essence of Blackness but not the other shit that comes wit' it!

what exactly does this mean?

what is your difference between be Black and BE BLACK?

but not the other shit that comes wit' it!- like what specifically?

(((((PEACE)))))

"if i dropped African thought, you'd probably lie and say it's greek philosophy" -TalibKweli

>what exactly does this mean?

to adopt a pattern of speech, style of dress, style of music, cooking, hairstyle, whatever..

BUT

when it comes time to acknowledge any of these things as such, denial results.

when it comes time to deal with any PROBLEMS faced by members of said
culture...denial

(note: i'm referring to the ORIGINAL quote)

WORD!!! truer words were never spoken

"if i dropped African thought, you'd probably lie and say it's greek philosophy" -TalibKweli

Cuz, i go to large white university is Pa. full of "White" Guys from outside Philly and Pittsburgh who are some wannabee shit. I'm saying i have mad white kids i rolls wit' from the city for real and keep it real to them selves, they don't have patronize me wit' that extra,"Wassup Dog" or prove how down they are. They just relate to urban culture and know that being street aint neccessarily being Black, it just being street! it's funny how quick cats will flip from Slim Shady into Good Ole' Marshall Mathers when shit gets thick.

"I'm cool i think i'll ride out this white thing for awahile"
-Chris Rock

word




Shalom

It's cool rockin the fashion, it's out of style once you get pulled over.



little................................

Headz wanna be black p/t..well...we all know the routine

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Amen brotha!!

Peace

Wendell

I think this comes down to shifting codes based on the situation and peer set.

I understand the sentiment that it is fashionable to enjoy elements of "urban" culture, yet convenient to be able to discard one's interests when faced with certain circumstances.

But I think folks wear different faces in different situations and that a lot of the behaviour you might be referring to can be explained this way.

---I'm here---

I learned early on that I had to be two different people...Moms would correct my English every chance she got, but as soon as she was on the phone w/ my aunt, it was, "I'm gonna get me some..." Thus I learned...

Still, I'm Black, and there's no changing it. I am a avid student of my history & culture. Many who claim to be "down" are neither. They're just playing games until the next fad comes along...and those are the people I can't stand.

peace

L.




GO RAVENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"no matter/whatever/whatever/no...g--girl/u know what I mean" ~~Musiq

"If you don't have no psychology, and no theology, all you got left to offer a man is your biology."(c) a preacher a friend of mine knows

Lookin for me?
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AIM: LHoney17
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welcome to america, where political correctness and cultural diversity is embraced, cherished and mocked.

my theories, and only theories:

i think one problem is the word. how did the word Black go from being a color to a lifestyle? i'm not saying that from a *shady* perspective, mind you. just because you're endowed with melanin doesn't mean you're the type of person who guns down brothers in the hood and cranks out kids for welfare checks, and just because you're white doesn't mean you went to harvard and are generally successful. but you know what? out in suburbia they think every nigga in the ghetto is wearing 30 pounds of ice and has a couple bentleys. they vicariously live through the suffering of the impoverished ("ghetto folk") because everything in their housing plan lives is a ok. young kids want to rebel, but there's nothing to rebel about (according to them - they don't know about politics yet). they don't suffer, except when mommy and daddy don't buy them everything they don't need. people think suffering validates their lives, and lucky white folk won't suffer unless they're black. by pretending they're black, they get the best of both worlds. a solid economic life, and the ability to change character at anytime. when acting 'black' gets them into trouble, they can just remove the fubu.

look at our music scene, then and now. black people have brought so many styles to the forefront. they're assumed to be on the cutting edge of cool. from jazz, to funk, to hip-hop, it's the black folk who give it to whitey. who wouldn't, as a human, want to be cool? as poets, they're more respected on the underground scene, because they're cooler (noticing the vicious cycle yet?)
or suffered more, giving credibility and validity to what they say. we think that anger from being repressed turns to hate, and hate makes better art. its more pure, morer purer. musically, the same goes...

actually, i have no idea what i'm talking about, i was hoping some people would debate this extensively to fill me in...

on that same strand as being cool - my dad and i have discussed black women as being the most respected and most disrespected demographic in america. look at TV - you put a large black woman in a show and she's the one who tells everybody else what to do, look at the talk shows. women always saying "you go girl" or "oh no you don't." at the same time, we call them bitches and make fun of them for being "fat asses." we totally use black women.

another theory on why its cool to be black. american political correctness has everybody reaching out to one another. people are proving to one another that they're more PC than one another. if a white guy can act black, and fit in with black folk, then he must really have PC skills. he is to be revered by his friends because, again, the black folk are generally cooler. many people are reaching out to ethnic minorities as preventative medicine, like the illosopher said, people shake hands differently, speak differently, etc... by acting like this the people don't get called racist, the ultimate insult to the PC type.

can't blame people for always seeing the grass as greener. you CAN criticize them when they do it out of total selfishness. my white friends constantly chat about how cool it is to be 'ethnic' like it gives them meaning. i always ask them if they'd like to be jewish, or polish. and they tend to say, "i mean i want to be black..." they want to stay white and take all the privledges they can, but they want to be the 'cool black kid' at the same time. the black kids i went to school with were just as white as the rest of them, anyway, except for when it was better for them to act black. i cite ANANDA LEWIS as a prime example of this exploitative technique.

the only thing that gives any muthaf*cka meaning is the way they live. black does not equal culture. white does not equal lack of culture. lack of culture does not equal white and culture does not equal black.

the end theory:

black people are the cool and hip, oddly enough, they've also been deemed the low class. why would the white, who is greater in number, want to let on that their american culture was defined by someone else. they stay on top with the numbers, with that the money, and where the culture lacks, borrow/steal from the other 'team.' its like a big 'dark' secret.

i give up. i really have no solutions.

yo interesting insight!

I have a very close friend who's white. She and I do a lot together but there are some things we can't do. Being with me, she allows herself to date black men only. She claims she will never be with a white man because they make ugly babies. I always say that's fucked up! Both of your parents are white and they made a beautiful daughter. What's the difference? That pisses me off.
moe.

Black people insist on categorizing Blackness as it substantiates themselves and not realizing how it coalesces as an entire people.

ourselves included.

So, are you saying that there is no such thing as Black culture?? Or is all of this in vain?

Peace
Ailyha

"Everybody's got issues, every-stinkin'-body"

"Boy, you look like steamy hot chocolate poured out on a milky sunrise- Unknown female "Mack"

"I don't know why I love you so much, I don't know...(sound of distress)..." some Stevie Wonder-ish

Buts its boundaries will be found by realizing and accepting the entirty of the Black collective-not just abandoning the perceptions of those we disagree with or posturing for the moral standards of the ultra positive and the self righteous.

Being Black CAN mean anything from just having nappy hair to claiming that you have a responsibility to do more. We must understand that Blackness is not an individual aspiration but a collective reality. To truly be Black one must abandon the notion that Blackness is subject to the Black person's whim or judgement but that the Black person is capable of understanding and being responsible for the judgement and livelihood of all Black people- and takes on that task with devotion.

This is called Umoja- it means unity.

Umoja is not something you can make- it is already there - your responsibility as a Black person is only to realize its connections; but thats not just a task- its a gift.

black culture is in.
black people are out.

been that way a while, no?

__________
A (rare) Laugh Out Loud "oh drama" Moment

"psychic white people...if these white folks could have seen all the trouble black folks were going to give them...they would have picked their own cotton" - Paul Mooney

An example is that I took my daughters to see The Emporer's New Groove. It had black culture, black dancing, black music, black but no blacks accept the voice of Miss. Eartha Kitt. These movies are made for white parents. Disney and the other studios know that white parents don't mind taking there children to these movies as long as they are not too black. There almost always has to be a white hero. Mulan was an exception.

disney has always done that stuff. can you expect more from people who slip in nude shots into the movies and draw phallic symbols everywhere they can? they had douchebag written on the floor of one scene in toy story.

Kung-fu was a really big thing back in the day. Had cats runnin around in these Asian suits with the shoes to match. But when the jings went down, they couldn't fight for ish. And they didn't want anything to do with learning about the history and where the art came from. They just wanted to be down with the latest 'thang'.

Know it's just urban culture, both the negative and positive, that has caught the world's eye. Go fig.


"I'm in my hood, man, my manhood worries ya."

-WonderWhy, De La Soul

"Reason for the cheer, all temperature here."

-Dave, De La Soul

GO RAVENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"no matter/whatever/whatever/no...g--girl/u know what I mean" ~~Musiq

"If you don't have no psychology, and no theology, all you got left to offer a man is your biology."(c) a preacher a friend of mine knows

Lookin for me?
carameldom@hotmail.com
AIM: LHoney17
http://members.blackplanet.com/Lex319

...of blackness.

what is this? are we referring to white kids wearing jeans low, listening to hiphop and talking slang. Or something else?

If so, maybe they're just reclaiming their culture. We don't own most jean and sneaker companies, nor most record stores. Props to them for supporting their communities!

Removing tongue from cheek,

angieee ('stress)

All I want for the holidays is 70 cents (my royalties off the sale of one book). (okay, and a chance to kick Steven King's ass on the "up and coming best sellers" list at amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679783571/qid%3D976231399/sr%3D1-1/okayplayer/107-9653818-1653329

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The Broke Diaries: The Completely True and Hilarious Misadventures of a Good Girl Gone Broke. April 2001.

Need an answer that is not in the FAQ (http://www.okayplayer.com/etc/faq/faq.htm), e-mail help@okayplayer.com

>what is this? are we referring
>to white kids wearing jeans
>low, listening to hiphop and
>talking slang. Or something else?
>
Yeah, this seems to be a very touchy subject with Black folk these days. Sometimes the ish kind of bothers me but I think its just that individual trying to define theirselves from something that they find appealing...Kind of like how some Black kids are just in awe of the Cash Money Clique and want to live like that.

>Props
>to them for supporting their
>communities!

I think you hit it on the head, but it seems like most folks ain't trying to hear that.

As KoalaLove eloquently said earlier,
is that we have to start "realizing and accepting the entity of the Black collective and not just abandoning the perceptions of those we disagree with or posturing for the moral standards of the ultra positive and the self righteous." This is what i consider to be the Black experience, that "collective reality" of being Black.
I'm totally feeling this because its almost like Black folk don't want to accept the good and the bad that exist in our culture, as if we don't have skeletons in our closets like other cultures...
It seems like our communities are becoming more slummy, our children are not taking the initiative in school, and liquor stores litter our neighborhoods...and everybody wonders why there is no change.
Change will come when we organize and take the initiative. Just like Koala said earlier, its all about umoja (unity) and its already there, just like the slave had his freedom from day one.

Peace ya'll (stepping off my soapbox)
Ailyha

copy and paste....copy and paste....



Shalom

i'mtalking about how some white will gamble with cancer to have a darker skin tone...

i'm talking how white people admire my own dark skin more any other demographic...

i'm talkin about how white dudes i know want to walk in the rymthic stide or have that deep baritone voice many bruhs naturally have...

i mean it is touch but damn shit is real...

yall know what goes on some peeps minds...

It mainly comes from white kids in non-diverse high schools. Probably because they've never had any exposure to black culture other than what they see on BET. If they had REAL exposure, than they would know that it's not a fad.

Personally if anyone ever tried to BE Italian or BE Jewish. I would be pretty damned disgusted. A few times I've seen people who've just watched the Sopranos or the Godfather talking in a thick accent talking about cutting off someone's thumbs.

Just thought I'd throw that in there . . .

Giving you true calcio since 1986

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For me, being Black has a political and social context but that is as far as it goes. I don't see Blackness in spiritual terms because in spirit there are no labels. However, I can use this context when expressing my socio-politcal views and when people of like mind can relate.

I wear my hair natural and all my close friends are Black but I interact with the world based on what I feel on a spiritual level. I have been working for community-based organizations since I was a teenager, often making an effort to help people who are Black.

But I am bigger than a label. I accept who I am, what I represent and I strive to help people in Black communities. I also strive to help the under-served, "at-risk", teens/youth, low income, etc. I am lumped many categories such as Black, woman, and so on but that does not describe all that I am. I look to the Divine for that and for direction/inspiration.

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix"

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

For me being black is just being black. I have sense of self so I dont give a f#*$ what people say or do. When I stand near a white guy in the lunch line and hear him all of a sudden singing some nelly shit. I know he just trying to show me hes down. The extra whassup dog, corny dap, and purposeful unarticulation(if thats a word) just lets me know that that white guys just frontin. I hold more respect for white guys who talk to me without the bullshit. The ones with sense of self, not trying to show or prove something. I hold that philosophy to everyone i meet.


Shalom

I'm struggling with the notion of "Black is Black."
(I read what Koala wrote, and I don't really see a problem with that perspective).
I still have not fully come to grips with what being "Black" implies.
I could say, "well, it's the diaspora of Afrikan people."
But, still,.......just how Black must you be to be Black. If Black is soul food (collard greens and fried chicken), then I guess that's me.
If Black is "sustaining the afro look", then that's me.
If Black is "a hunger for the consciousness of our ancestors and ancient civilization before the Euro-centicism", then that's me too.
However, on the flip-side, I don't eat pork (can't stand swine), I can't really dance, I don't have a good jump-shot, I don't go to "the Black church", and I sometimes prefer to listen to musicians who are of the Causcasiod kind.

?

IS

This whole issue is in my life alllll the time. I always have thought black people (I hate sayin that shit!) are just on top of things(styles trends and artforms). Ive grew up (not lived) around blacks my whole life.My dad was always a coach in ussually all black schools so I was always exposed to the way of life. Its just something different and fascinating to most people such as teens. I never tried to act "down" cause Im just used to it all. Most of my white friends when were in the ghetto(W 25 CLEVELAND!) totally front and start to talk with more slang. I just really try to approach every person the same with no exceptions. Yes I do wear clothes like triple 5, ecko and esco but I feel they just express my lifestyle.
One thing I do notice about myself though when it comes down to a fight( try to avoid as much as possible) I do become more intimidated when the person is black, and I feel more cocky when someone who is black or any race is backin me. Thats about it and ya that is a little wierd.That goes for most white people ive noticed thru experience.
I also am an emcee which has taught me so much and others as well(goes for anyone whos battled me or heard me ryhme). At shows people look at me and the rest of my group and I know they think what the hell is he gonna do. So I always got to prove my self. I know Im way off subject but I guess Im tryin to say us White boys are increadbly influenced by blacks, and dont you want to be like the those who influence you? Sorry for the LEnGth.
"we dont need another hero... shema" One Man Army

Its
>just something different and fascinating
>to most people such as
>teens.

I guess Im
>tryin to say us White
>boys are increadbly influenced by
>blacks, and dont you want
>to be like the those
>who influence you?

i think one of the points of this post is that some white people are influenced by black culture, but most only take it to a superfifical level. i know if i find something interesting (like i do with history, engineering, hip hop culture, etc) i always try to research it as much as possible and school myself on it...

the problem that i see is that some white people don't take time to really delve into the black experience (as much as they can that is, i don't believe that someone that isn't black can truly, 100% understand) beyond simple dress, music, and slang ...



----
IM and ICQ name: reefdogg1 (number one at the end)

Mondays, 8pm-11pm EST: a hip hop radio show on the rocks ... eff the watered down ish
http://www.bsrlive.com/ - click on the hi fi/low fi right under the picture

nas is like ...

i scream at the mirror, curse, asking god, why me? / run in the black church, gun in my hand, y'all try me / i'm god son, son of man, son of marcus garvey / rastarfari ari, hail ali salasi / police try to break us, but the streets rasied us / it takes more than metal bars, we're destined for ours / i hear murder plans from dope fiends, with elephant hands / snot's in their nostril, the block is hostile / there's no pots to piss in, blocks is spit / rocks is cookin, underground bodies stiffening, cops lookin / bird shit, droppin on the window pane / the oxygen is cocaine, it drove lots of men to die with no name / i've been on boats, nut down throats, pee on bitches who are famous / pretty dick, leavin stitches in their anus / i'm the animal that hugh heffner created / the only nigga that sade dated, the most hated, nas nigga

i heard you fags wanna catch me off guard, put techs in my heart / the death of escobar under ya rep, whispers in the dark / i hear it cause the street ain't loyal to choose sides / prepare for the beef whoever lose dies / rich and i'm thuggin, i can't trust nothin / this bitch that i'm fuckin, this clip that i'm bustin / could jam in my fist, look at my hand / fingered pussy more expensive rings cut coke cookies / wrote poetry and broke noses b / voices heaven, i'm god son, of course a legend / this is part one, speak my sermon, the hood reverend / blunted eyes red, see ass a hundred times five res / cds blast, speed fast haters drop dead / i'm gorgeous, black artist flip the armrest and grab the cordless / somebody stacks the best, ass is flawless / finally the long awaited shit ghetto people / the sequel, nas, cnn, nobody's equal

noreaga is like ...

b eeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzeeeeee, keep the club off the heeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzeeeeeee, see us thuggin in the back, drinkin greeeeeeezzzzzeeeeeeee, see we still smoke trrrrreeeeeeeeeezzzzzeeeeeee, see us rippin the shows with darryl eeeeeeeeezzzzzzeeeeeeeeee

I know where you're coming from. There is this whole group of white kids at my school who listen to the Wu-Tang Clan. They have all the Wu-wear and they seem to think Wu-Tang is the only rap group out there. Most of them only like Wu-Tang because their friends do, and of course they don't realize that they existed before The W. If any of these kids REALLY listen to hip hop, research it, and go to shows, they would find SO much more music. But they're just listening to Wu because one kid said, "Check this out."
So I guess I'm saying...
All colors of people can listen to hip hop and dress in hip hop fashion, but they should do that only if it means something to them, and is not just another fad.

peace,
-drFunkenstein

"De La Soul is here to stay like racism." -Pos

i'm talking about kids i know who think by dressing a certain way or listening to a certain music that they are "blacker" than someone who doesn't...

i agree with your points, but i'm talking about people studying WHY hip hop artists say and do certain things, which would ultimately result in a study of race relations and the african american life in this country

----
IM and ICQ name: reefdogg1 (number one at the end)

Mondays, 8pm-11pm EST: a hip hop radio show on the rocks ... eff the watered down ish
http://www.bsrlive.com/ - click on the hi fi/low fi right under the picture

nas is like ...

i scream at the mirror, curse, asking god, why me? / run in the black church, gun in my hand, y'all try me / i'm god son, son of man, son of marcus garvey / rastarfari ari, hail ali salasi / police try to break us, but the streets rasied us / it takes more than metal bars, we're destined for ours / i hear murder plans from dope fiends, with elephant hands / snot's in their nostril, the block is hostile / there's no pots to piss in, blocks is spit / rocks is cookin, underground bodies stiffening, cops lookin / bird shit, droppin on the window pane / the oxygen is cocaine, it drove lots of men to die with no name / i've been on boats, nut down throats, pee on bitches who are famous / pretty dick, leavin stitches in their anus / i'm the animal that hugh heffner created / the only nigga that sade dated, the most hated, nas nigga

i heard you fags wanna catch me off guard, put techs in my heart / the death of escobar under ya rep, whispers in the dark / i hear it cause the street ain't loyal to choose sides / prepare for the beef whoever lose dies / rich and i'm thuggin, i can't trust nothin / this bitch that i'm fuckin, this clip that i'm bustin / could jam in my fist, look at my hand / fingered pussy more expensive rings cut coke cookies / wrote poetry and broke noses b / voices heaven, i'm god son, of course a legend / this is part one, speak my sermon, the hood reverend / blunted eyes red, see ass a hundred times five res / cds blast, speed fast haters drop dead / i'm gorgeous, black artist flip the armrest and grab the cordless / somebody stacks the best, ass is flawless / finally the long awaited shit ghetto people / the sequel, nas, cnn, nobody's equal

noreaga is like ...

b eeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzeeeeee, keep the club off the heeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzeeeeeee, see us thuggin in the back, drinkin greeeeeeezzzzzeeeeeeee, see we still smoke trrrrreeeeeeeeeezzzzzeeeeeee, see us rippin the shows with darryl eeeeeeeeezzzzzzeeeeeeeeee

Unless I'm mistaken, I didn't see anyone mention the beauty aspect of it, e.g.:
~~severe tanning
~~lip implants
~~butt lifts
~~(some might add) curly perms, etc.

I call it the "everything-but-the-nose" phenomenon...

L.


GO RAVENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"no matter/whatever/whatever/no...g--girl/u know what I mean" ~~Musiq

"If you don't have no psychology, and no theology, all you got left to offer a man is your biology."(c) a preacher a friend of mine knows

Lookin for me?
carameldom@hotmail.com
AIM: LHoney17
http://members.blackplanet.com/Lex319

~~severe tanning
~~lip implants
~~butt lifts
~~(some might add) curly perms, etc.

personally, i don't think those things are sypmtomatic of whites wanting to be black. especially not collectively. it's not like they're tanning to get black as me (brown), they just want a hint of color. i guess you could say they were trying to be Asian or Indian then, too. as far as lip implants- i don't think white women, by and large, desire to have bigger lips. perhaps the ones that have no lips might, but that's a minority. butt lifts- i've never heard of anyone getting that. i don't think white women desire to have bigger butts either. everytime i turn around, i see one of them complaining about how big their flatt butt is getting. curly perms- again, they don't want it to look like mine...

black people want to look white waaaaay more than white folks want to look black. all the white dreads, curlyperms, silicone injected lips in the world does not even come close to what we do to ourselves to look like them.

-NikaMandela

GO RAVENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"no matter/whatever/whatever/no...g--girl/u know what I mean" ~~Musiq

"If you don't have no psychology, and no theology, all you got left to offer a man is your biology."(c) a preacher a friend of mine knows

Lookin for me?
carameldom@hotmail.com
AIM: LHoney17
http://members.blackplanet.com/Lex319