In my efforts to become educated/cultured/informed (my goal is to read 12 books in 2001, a 1 a month average) about more than just hip-hop I picked this book up off of the family bookshelf.

Personally I think it was just there as some pre described hyped up book that black people had to have because it was just sitting there, no fingerprints, not a page turned as if it had never been read before.

Im sorry, the message is aight but I got up to about page 15 and I quit. With all of the education in the world, you still should speak in a manner that the masses can understand (given that thats who youre trying to reach).

Im not tryna strain myself to understand exactly what the man is trying to say. Im pretty smart n my eyes are open to the situations we face, so I dont feel bad about not really tryna stick with this book.

Brother still has some soul though, in his preface he spoke of driving home with his wife listening to Vaughn Harper's quiet storm.


I'll be trying some easier literature. Im not asking for the cat in the hat, but dont give me quantam physics n expect me to translate

Hotep

Cornel West ain't about jack shit. He's one of Skip's boys (Henry Louis "Skip" Gates). West is another Harvard lackie negro.

Yurugu by Marimba Ani (This book maybe somewhat difficult to read BUT IT IS WORTH SPENDING THE ENTIRE YEAR TO DIGEST IT!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Metu Neter by Ra Un Nefer Amen

Blacked Out by Whitewash by Suzar (MUST READ!)

Echoes of the Old Darkland by Charles Finch, M.D.

Anything by Na'im Akbar, Anthony Browder, Kobi Kambon, Amos Wilson, Cheik Anta Diop...

All of these works can be found or ordered at your local Black bookstore.

PEACE

Solarus

"To be perfect is to lack nothing essential to the whole therefore I AM."-Solarus

"And if I have to dead you, it's only cuz I love you."- Talib Kweli

There was this PBS special on the other day narrated by good ol' skip. It made me sad to be a member of the black male species. Skip is dead to me now, he and his intellectual crew are pathetic at best, all talk no action. *note to self, write his name down in DROP SQUAD book* They write too many books and never put down the pen. Phrases he used during the presentation that made me look down in shame:

"i feel more at home here at harvard than anywhere else"

"alls i can do to help the situation is TRY"

check out the site for the program:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/race/

(((((PEACE)))))
"if i dropped African thought, you'd probably lie and say it's greek philosophy" -TalibKweli

I read the book and had a dictionary alongside with it. Brotha man had some shit to say and to me showed that ya still Black in America no matter how many degrees you got. "Race Matters" turned me on to some of his other works, fave being "Restoring Hope".





little................................

The first chapter in "race matters" was the deepest. West dealt with the "nihilistic threat". It was stuff I already knew but had not yet put it down on paper. He broke it down like a sermonic treatise. I was feeling him on that chapter. I haven't looked at that book in about 3 or 4 years. Cornel West is not for everybody. I don't agree with a lot of his views especially his views on lesbianism and homosexuality. In fact, I think when he tries to reconcile his Christian beliefs with certain behaviors, he is the most intellectually dishonest. I have read all of his works from short fictional stories to autobiographical works to his collaborations with other writers. I find his thinking to be clear, organized, and easy to follow. Yes, you should have a dictionary near by but if you are trying to improve your mind and your vocabulary then that's how you do it.

"get partisan!" -me11/27

http://www.geocities.com/originalbluepeanut/

Yeah Cornell is very wack. I remember he came to my school to speak and was on some real wack jargon. My biggest beef with him and a lot of other "ghetto philosophers" is that they gives these speeches and stay in their academic communities. Where is his presence in the community and involvement with people creating change.

"It could really hurt if you don't know what your doing" (Richie-The Last Dragon)

ONE DAY IT WILL ALL MAKE SENSE - Common

"Yo, Peoples let me live. Let me hold that ice" (Shaft)

"I GOT THE PIMP SPIRIT IN ME!" -IMPROV

HIT ME UP FAM:

aim...Napsones

True....Congrats on your continuous search for truth!

Now, about Cornel West!


I have a audio tape with West and Dr. Clarke in dialogue. Gates praises his "elder" for all the work he had done up until his passing. dr. Clarke ate him up, the topic was "Nationalism".

Dr. Clarke didn't come and say anything bad about West, he mentioned his "intellectual hardware" that can be used in the benefit of black people.

West is a "fence straddler", the man is brilliant! His loyality is in the wrong place.


Gates is nothing but a "Race traitor".

Man, there is somethng about West! He needs to come home!

One thing I cannot compare Dr. Clarke to Dr. West!!!!!

Clarke was a great historian and trailblazer. Dr. West is a thinker, much like DuBois, but like Clarke he's also an academic.

As for "fence straddler", can you explain that one for me?

As far as Gates goes, I like him. I was able to understand where he was coming from before I did West. You chose some harsh words mane.





little................................

plus, he ain half as bad as ya boy clarence t.

"get partisan!" -me11/27

http://www.geocities.com/originalbluepeanut/

Too bad...
When I saw the book title in the subject line, I thought there'd be some discussion about the book.

Seems like people enjoy tearing authors down more than discussing the rights or wrongs of the actual text. THis is my first day looking through okayactivist... not the greatest first impression.

-thebigfunk

>Seems like people enjoy tearing authors
>down more than discussing the
>rights or wrongs of the
>actual text.

Completely agree with this statement.

Now let me ask this:

What about the value of cross-over appeal? Certainly West's message is just what his title says, "race matters." Seems that some people on this board think that he has abandoned the black community, doing the Harvard thing, etc. So my question is this, isn't their value in West being able to appeal to whites, not in a way that he is butt-kissing, but in an intellectual way that makes the agent group realize the plight of the target group?

who is black?
who is down?
who is the hardest
who is the most real?

seems like folks cant get away from the issue of authenticity and discuss what authors or artists are producing and from what position these authors/artists speak. centralizing a debate around authenticity creates binary oppositions, such as real/sell-out, that make it easy to invalidate any opinion that is contrary or vexing. you can hear the same arguments/anxiety in some of the debate on commons new album, or any hip hop artist that tries something new. granted the historical factors that have created such an anxiety in oppressed communities are valid i believe they no longer can address the difficult questions facing these communities.

i think the following questions can better flesh out the anxiety of authenticity expressed in relation to authors and artists:

"what is the role of the black intellectual working within academia or the system?"

"what intellectual resources and traditions can/should black intellectuals utilize?"
-are marxists, socialist, anarchist, feminist, post colonial and queer theorists vital to the predicament of black people?

"is there a monolithic 'Black' community that intellectuals are responsible to?"
-if so how does this community accomodate differences of class, gender, religion, and sexual orientation?
-who defines what is aunthentic and inauthentic in this community?

i will return with my comments but overall i think focusing ones politics on questions of authenticity is short sighted and ultimately defeating.

native son

I like ya angle, good points!!!! Some of these questions West has asked and has tried to answer.

Isn't there a difference between activisim and academics? Can't they be used together?

I think so.



little................................

i do think academics can be engaged in a certain form of activism, an activism that engages and contests hegemonic formations on a symbolic level, though we should not be overly optimistic about its range and effect.

native son

Symbolic meaning academic?

And what about those academic disciplines that are considered "race neutral" such as engineering and agriculture?

See for me, one way of bring activism into academia is by bridging the gaps that exist in the educational system. Harvard's Dept. of African-American Studies is still in the planning stages of creating an exchange program with with HBCUs. Thass one way of being an activist, to me!



little................................

sorry for being vague, i write symbolic to differentiate from material conditions. In my previous post i refer to the concept of hegemony, by that i mean the constant war that takes place over the meaning, and value of a cultures categories, such as citizenship, gender roles, beauty, purity, criminality...etc. A hegemonic formation is one that has claimed a momentary state of dominance in this war, one that has monopolized the meaning and value of cultural categories, for instance correlating blackness with criminality or being ugly, and unworthy. i believe academics can be activists in the realm of this war, they can work within the system to contest the oppressive nature of these categories, whether it be within academia or popular culture. However the limit to this form of activism is that it can not erase poverty, or give jobs - that is what i mean by material conditions.

native son

>"what is the role of the
>black intellectual working within academia
>or the system?"

To think, write, and speak truthfully and courageously.

>
>"what intellectual resources and traditions can/should
>black intellectuals utilize?"

All available resources even the eurocentric ones.

> -are marxists, socialist, anarchist,
>feminist, post colonial and queer
>theorists vital to the predicament
>of black people?

No.

>
>"is there a monolithic 'Black' community
>that intellectuals are responsible to?"

Yes and no.
>
> -if so how does
>this community accomodate differences of
>class, gender, religion, and sexual
>orientation?

True justice as the plumbline.

> -who defines what is
>aunthentic and inauthentic in this
>community?

Those who are a part of the community. You know who you are.

>
>i will return with my comments
>but overall i think focusing
>ones politics on questions of
>authenticity is short sighted and
>ultimately defeating.
>
>native son

I agree wholeheartedly with your take on everybody's responses. It seems like you actually read and digested the chapter in "Race Matters" where Dr. West elaborated on the subject of "black authenticity". Peace!

For all the other heads who have responded without actually saying anything about the book, you guys are just talkin' shit. Why lay a book with such socio-political depth as "Race Matters" on the table, then not constructively criticize it? Ri-goddamn-diculous!!!

I applaud you for trying to expand your knowledge. I'm assuming that this is your first attempt at seriously studying the vast Pan African subject. If that is the case, then I wouldn't recommend starting with Cornel West. His books require prior knowledge on the subject--meaning they are not introductory books. Maybe you should start out with something like "From Slavery to Freedom" by John Hope Franklin. That was the first book I read when I began my quest for knowledge of Black history. Although I've been studying for about 8 years, I still have to break out the dictionary when reading West and others like him. So, maybe it's not the big words that he uses, but the complexity of the subject.

And for the other people who down West And Gates for being graduates from Ivy League schools, that's just plain bullshit. Does that make them less of an authority on the subject? They are giving back to the Black community by writing books, making documentaries and speaking in public places. What more do you want them to do? There is not just one way to spread the knowledge and give back to the community. Whether you come the the hood or make a film about Africa is not what matters. What matters is that you spread the knowledge.

***D'...AUG 4TH...FRONT ROW CENTER...SHEAR HEAVEN...I'M IN LOVE!!!***

Rozjack's Top 10 Songwriters:
10) Teena Marie
9) R. Kelly
8) Babyface
7) Jill Scott (yep that fast)
6) Erykah Badu
5) Marvin Gaye/Stevie Wonder
4) Lauryn Hill
3) Maxwell
2) Sade
1) D'ANGELO *Who else did you think?

"This world done changed since I been conscious."
-Erykah Badu

"Now keep in mind that I'm an artist and I'm sensitive about my shit."
--Erykah Badu

"Hi. My name is Rozjack and I'm a Voodooholic."
--me

"Music. It's in me."
--me

Jill Scott: The Voice of Today's Black Woman
--me

"...I support the rappers. They say what needs to be said... cuz somebody needs to call a muthafucka a muthafucka..."
--Nikki Giovanni @ Tavis Smiley's Advocacy in the New Millennium Conference

they are being downed for being bootlickers and supporting white supremacy and Western culture. The "We are the world" mentality serves nothing but to provide a smokescreen to the real issue. They are nothing but gatekeepers for massa. I'm very familiar with there ideologies. They are disgusting. It's really sad when a white professor in their department will tell you that. What HBCU program are you discussing? I graduated from Morrehouse last in the African American Studies program and a visiting professor from the Dubois institute (Harvard's African American Studies department sister) taught at Morehouse. He always said that he had to fight Gates (who is Institute director) to teach at Morehouse. Gates is disgusting. That documentary he did was just an attempt promote the image that Africans were just as guilty of enslaving Africans as Europeans. Sure it showed the "greatness" of Africa in some cases but it also degraded Africans in others. Don't bother responding with a "romanticization of Africa" argument because that isn't the issue. Several people have already given thorough critiques of it (see Ali Mazrui).

Peace
Solarus


"To be perfect is to lack nothing essential to the whole therefore I AM."-Solarus

"And if I have to dead you, it's only cuz I love you."- Talib Kweli

while i think cornel west and skip gates can be overly verbose and vague i have never found them to be in support of "the west or white supremacy", they seem to be quite critical of these structures. Perhaps i am not as well acquainted with the roots of their arguments though, i am curious if you can expand upon what you meant when you wrote this.

native son

K

i'm sorry, but that pbs special was the shit. even tho gates is a diehard academe, and his peer-in-thought west are two stodgalicious boho black men, he asked some very pertinent questions as a black american in africa. i think he was very sincere in his reasoning/questioning of the various practices, yet he didnt speak in a condescending manner.

now as far as he and west and others using such a large and expanded vocab, i think that serves a couple of purposes and has its pros and cons. as was stated earlier...this usage is necessary in many instances where the overriding factor is attempting to get across to folks in power positions. it's shortsided in attempting to reach the majority of 'common' black folk, the laymen and women that have blue collar jobs and such. thing is, they'd probably never read anyway. to me, these dudes are like industry-types, and their publications are like "the american journal of podiatric masseuse chocalatiers" or some shit. they are only truly meant for a certain demographic, so they can afford to use complex and elusive terminonology.

then again, an argument could then be stated for the authors mentioned in solarus' first reply. but, and this is a big BUT...those ppl can be just as hard to read. gates and west are masters of the language, because they had to be in their socieites and at harvard. for this, they make it easily understood to those trained in ingesting such material. the others have excellent ideas, probably much more compelling and fact-laden than either of the aforementioned. however, they miss me when sentence structure is all fucked up, ideas travel to and fro, etc. but, that's just me. sorry for the rant.

"get partisan!" -me11/27

http://www.geocities.com/originalbluepeanut/

i've only read portions. it was pretty clear to me. now someone i cannot read is achebe. just cant get into his stuff. he doesnt draw me. i've heard him speak, and dig dude in that regard but otherwise...nah.

"get partisan!" -me11/27

http://www.geocities.com/originalbluepeanut/

to get into Achebe! I really do like his writing...he's really dope with his words.

"It could really hurt if you don't know what your doing" (Richie-The Last Dragon)

ONE DAY IT WILL ALL MAKE SENSE - Common

"Yo, Peoples let me live. Let me hold that ice" (Shaft)

"I GOT THE PIMP SPIRIT IN ME!" -IMPROV

HIT ME UP FAM:

aim...Napsones

Achebe, I believe, is one of the most understated (and underestimated) black intellectuals... one single essay on Heart Of Darkness divided all criticism on the story into two categories: pre-Achebe and post-Achebe. There's something. (Although, the article itself was sort of outdated in technique, I think anyway.) He has a way with words...

-thebigfunk

perhaps it's just me, but i don't even like his writing style. his speaking style is much better. i'd rather read baraka any day....

"get partisan!" -me11/27

http://www.geocities.com/originalbluepeanut/

what have you read by of achebe? if you haven't already, i suggest starting with "things fall apart" or "arrow of god"? they are fiction and might set up a framework for reading his latest, "home and exile." you sound like you appreciate what he has to say, there is so much to find in his writing. don't give up. he is a must for anyone interested in understanding the impact of colonialism on africa/africans.

Personally I love Achebe's work...I read "things fall apart" in high school & I just finished "arrow of god". The cultural and linguistic differences can make his work hard to follow, but the statements he makes are powerful.

As far as Cornel West is concerned, I intend on reading more of his work asap. I think he sparks thought. Even if he's not a man of action per se, does that mean he doesn't have ideas and a vision that can motivate those who are about making change?

As for the vocab, I'm sorry, but that's a poor excuse. Like someone said earlier, pick up the dictionary & read that and West at the same time. I think some of the folks sayin that would be quick to jump on some "they schools" shit. Don't complain and then be afraid to educate your damn self.

peace

L.

GO RAVENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"no matter/whatever/whatever/no...g--girl/u know what I mean" ~~Musiq

"If you don't have no psychology, and no theology, all you got left to offer a man is your biology."(c) a preacher a friend of mine knows

Lookin for me?
carameldom@hotmail.com
AIM: LHoney17
http://members.blackplanet.com/Lex319

the first 50 pages or so can be overwhelming, but i had to read it my first year in college and i found it to be quite useful and beneficial. it gets better...trust.

peace


"I've come to fear that of the many things a black man can die from, the first may be rage."
-Nathan McCall-
****************************************

"Every dream you have is a whisper from God"
-Natasha Munson-

Listen to the book on tape and do a bunch of other stuff at the same time (knit, cook, or whatever), but LISTEN. Your head may not have been bobbin at page 15, but he hadn't said shit. West has a lot to offer and he's usually right on. While you're at it, pick up some tapes by Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, and (on the lighter side) Michael Moore. Good Luck! :D

________________________________________
"Don't quote me, boy,
cuz I ain't said shit."

---Eric "Eazy-E" Wright (1963-1993)
________________________________________

Black Psychology-Articles "The testing game", "The black nigresence model"
Anything Dubois!
The Debt-What America owes blacks
Re-read the Invisable Man
Re-read Thoreau
Pearl Cleage-Reasons to riot!

If you are interested in public policy, I would suggest one of your 12 books be Yo' Mama's Dysfunctional by
Robin Kelley. This brother's shit is together. He's relatively young and I think he is out of Harvard (or is it Columbia). He takes Cornel and Manning (we're on a first name basis) perspective but places it in the context of someone who grew up with hip-hop. Very good book. Very good.

Hey and what happened to Okayplayer book discussion?

hey about a year ago everytime someone mentioned a book i mentioned this one and we were supposed to read it for the book discussion, but folks talk about a book discussion and don't get around to reading the book-

i love kelley- when i was talking a marx and marxism class in college i used him in most of my arguments on blacks and communism-

and he has other books out i just can't remember right now....

>hey about a year ago everytime
>someone mentioned a book i
>mentioned this one and we
>were supposed to read it
What's really interesting is the parts that talk about how society associates "ghetto" with negativity while ignoring or encouraging behaviors in the middle class community that are equal or worse.

Somebody stole that book from me.

>

Number one it's dangerous to lump "black intellectuals" together without having at least some sort of command of their philosophies and ideas. Any cursory inspection of their work will not do. So in speaking of Dr. West and Dr. Gates as if they're a unit is just plain wrong and misleading.

I agree that sometimes-excuse me-a lot of the time, intellectuals are too far removed from the realities of the situations they theorize about, but that isn't always the case. I've found, and this is just from my point of view, that Dr. West is not that type of person. Sure he can often become wordy and can tend toward using the occasional "harvard jargon," but in general he is very concise and he explains, almost in paniful detail, exactly what he means, most of which has nothing to do with "bootlicking," or "being a gatekeeper for massah." Dr. West has vehemently attacked the dominate structure of white society and the obvious repercussions this country (primarily us black folks) have suffered in the mass delusion we've embraced since post-slavery. And furthermore, unlike many black males in intelligentia, on street corners or elsewhere, he's not afraid to speak on the obvious misogynous structures that still inhibit patriachal society to make peace with their idiotic notions of the role of women in this society.

Have you ever seen him speak? I have on numerous occassions and he doesnt't speak at white institutions only. As a matter of fact the last time I saw him, he was at a small black-owned bookstore in Chicago. If you'd looked at the crowd, you would've seen a black diaspora represented, just from the city of Chicago, who had come out to support the brother. And the implications that he has somehow abandoned all credibility because he's at Harvard is completely unfounded simply in the way he speaks to his people. Plus, you'd be surprised at how conservative black institutions are when it comes to accepting some of our own in important positions (remember Spellman burning Toni Morrison?) They've tried, but sometimes it's not as simple as running to the nearest black institution and being accepted, which is a shame (not to say that all institutions are this way, but many). Point blank-the brotha tells the truth. Sure I disagree with some of his points, but that is the point of criticism and sharing your ideas-to present social theories that you yourself are aware of as faulty, and to be, in turn, criticized.

Anyway, I wasn't as cohesive as I'd like to be, but I couldn't let people who have probably never really entertained his views slander him, especially when we lay claims to supporting those who make attampts at crying out against the injustice that we're all aware of.

And to that person who asks where he is in the community-check your local prison, most of the time he's there volunteering or participating in programs geared towards those who are incarcetarted.

And no, I'm not part of the Cornel West fanclub.

And Louie Gates is a whole nother subject.

"It's slim pickings out there. You can't swing a Fendi purse without knocking over five losers." --Samantha (Sex in the City)

"I would love to be one of those people who's all: 'we loved, thank you, you enhanced my life, now go, prosper...,' but I'm much more: "we didn't work out, you need not to exist."
--Miranda (same show)

"We stand, as the manifested equivalent of three buckets of water and a hand full of minerals, thus realizing that those very buckets when turned upside down supply the percussive element of forever." ---Saul Williams

Thanks atrackbrown:7
________________________________________
"Capitalism will sell us the ropes to
hang it with, just because it wants to
make money off the rope. And all the
time, we're making the noose."
---M-1 of Dead Prez, ColorLines, December 19,