19279, RE: Westerner does not equal white.|
Posted by guest, Fri Jan-19-01 12:30 PM
>we have GOT to be using
>the word western in two
>different contexts, but i'll get
>to that later.
>when i say give specific examples,
>i'm asking for nouns, i.e
>people, places, dates, specific events.
>without using the internet and
>a search engine can you
>be more specific? or is
>this generalizing you're doing all
>you have in your arsenal.
>it is classic to show
>examples of "wrong-doing" within every
>culture to attempt to universalize
>certain aspects of culture. there
>is a definite, clear-cut distinction
>between western and non-western culture.
>wrong-doings can be found everywhere
>but western culture perfected it
>and cannot escape it. to
>put everyone in the same
>basket is what the western
>mind does to try and
>turn this into a "we
>are the world" discussion so
>as to take the spotlight
>off the real problem, THEMSELVES,
>this is just the ego
>trying to defend itself so
For specific dates and the like Im going to have dig into my books, which I cant do right cuz Im at work and Im under a deadline. Ill get back to you on that one. I'm not trying to universalize wrong-doing. What would be the point of that since its obvious every society has it? Were talking about a higher level of wrongdoing, which not every culture has developed. Of course there is a clear-cut disctinction between Western and non-Western cultures. But, many of these harmful Western ideals are found in other cultures (not all). Many of these problems were around before Western civiliza tion had developed.Western Culture has obviously perfected these harmful ideas. No argument there. But was this perfection instrinsic to the civilization or did it develop through a combination of circumstances (like the European climate and terrain and techonology?). Indo-Europeans from the Caucus region would not have overrun Europe and set off the West's ascension to power if they didnt have an ecosystem that favored wheat (which is more nutritious and easier to store than many other grains), contained metal ores (for weapons, tools, machines), and was native to horses (which were a tremendous advantage in war back in the day). I believe Egypt, China, the Aztecs or any other "civilization" would have perfected their oppression machines like Westerners if they had had the chance to. More on this later, Ill get some specifics.
>>>diggin irrigation canals= uprooting plants, soil and the animals that live off of them
>planting crops=once again uprooting plants, altering
>All of these things harm the
>how did this specifically hurt the
>environment, don't generalize, give specifics.
>to answer this question will
>take serious scholarship, not just
>stating something which SEEMS obvious
>given the data one has,
>data which pertains to observations
>i'm sure you've witnessed today.
>the Kemetians(egyptians) wrote about everything
>under and above the sun,
>how did "they" see the
>impact of the canals? as
>harmful? i mean, eating fruit
>off a tree impacts the
>environment, doesn't it? give specifics,
>specifics. the way western culture
>has had an impact on
>the environment can never be
>compared to what their practices
>were. come on. western culture
>has the ability to end
>life on EARTH, to destroy
>mankind with weapons created strictly
>for that purpose. western culture
>is the concentrated form of
>wickedness, don't try to pawn
>it off on cultures which
>never have and never will
>reach it's destructive tendencies.
As you said, backing this up will take serious scholarship, so once again Ill get back to you on specifics. However, agriculture is a different than plucking fruit from the tree. Plucking fruit does NOT harm the environment (unless you pluck way too many in a large region at once). Fruits were meant to be plucked. Thats why trees grow them. We eat the fruits, and we shit out the seeds a mile or two away so new trees can grow. Agriculture on the other hand, is not part of the ecosystem. It destroys a section of the ecosystem so we can make a surplus and store more food than we need (which is the advantage of agriculture over hunting-gathering). Of course Western civilization has a greater capacity to destroy the environment. But once again, if another civilzatio nwas running shit right now, do you really think the environment wouldnt be fucked? I guess theres no way to prove that, but thats my opinion. Western society has taken the destructive elements that have been present in many cultures and honed them, perfected them.
Youd be surprised how much we agree. Western society is running shit right now, so of course we should fight it. But I dont think this entails killing all white people and Westerners, nor do i think that all traces of Western society should or even can should be erased, as some of them are clearly beneficial.
I guess this whole argument would be clarified if you laid out what you think these harmful ideals distinct to Western culture are.