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Topic subject(MIS)USING the dictionary!
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=22&topic_id=1910
1910, (MIS)USING the dictionary!
Posted by HueyShakur, Wed Apr-21-04 06:51 AM
i've come to realize that in any debate, folk most first agree on the terms before the argument commences. otherwise it's just sillyness.

but too often when a discrepancy or disagreement over terms occurs folk run to the dictionary (usually merriam-webster) to "settle" it. as if the dictionary is the authority on all knowledge.

IMO the dictionary is one of the most politically-charged things in a society because it is the beacon of acceptable speech/terminology. therefore the linguistic interests of the ruling class will always be served.

don't get me wrong there is some use for a dictionary but not when it comes to debateable social terms like "poverty," "racism," "gender," etc. because the definition provided will only serve the values of the ruling class.

so please everyone...stop using the dictionary in an argument as a trump card because it just nonsensical and makes you look silly.

any thoughts? opinions?

peace.
1911, RE: (MIS)USING the dictionary!
Posted by guest, Wed Apr-21-04 06:55 AM
I agree that the dictionary does serve the interests of the ruling power, just the same as the "his-story" books.
1912, what's your definition of 'nonsensical'?
Posted by tohunga, Wed Apr-21-04 07:14 AM

1913, nice one...
Posted by HueyShakur, Wed Apr-21-04 07:41 AM
i was expecting that, i just didn't know how quickly someone would try it.

when folk use the dictionary as a trump card, it's just ironic IMO because it affirms the status quo, esp on social terms.

peace.
1914, What does "IMO" mean?
Posted by theBoondocksGurl, Thu Apr-22-04 07:36 AM
****************************Sig*****************************************

OMG! Shemar Moore is EXTREMELEY FINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




http://members.blackplanet.com/learnineveryday/


1915, sorry...
Posted by HueyShakur, Thu Apr-22-04 07:49 AM
In My Opinion
1916, ...and what's your definition of 'opinion'?
Posted by tohunga, Thu Apr-22-04 11:31 AM


(sorry.)
1917, is this a game? what's the point?
Posted by HueyShakur, Thu Apr-22-04 12:08 PM
sentiment or educated understanding.
1918, yeah, sorry mate
Posted by tohunga, Thu Apr-22-04 11:56 PM
i agree with you though. semantics is a very loaded area. when all we have to work is is these abstracted ideas and their supposed meanings, well, every debate will be tainted by what baggage you associate with a term.

yea, good post, i'm just helping keep it up there in my own retarded way
1919, lol...
Posted by HueyShakur, Fri Apr-23-04 12:12 AM
it's all good.
1920, RE: (MIS)USING the dictionary!
Posted by ovBismarck, Wed Apr-21-04 09:24 AM
go with the oed...
1921, you need to get outside....
Posted by mcdeezjawns, Wed Apr-21-04 05:48 PM
go out and enjoy the sunshine......Sounds like you need it..
The Dictionary, Chalk up another win for "THE MAN"
haha

peace


>IMO the dictionary is one of the most politically-charged things in a society because it is the beacon of acceptable speech/terminology. therefore the linguistic interests of the ruling class will always be served.


1922, RE: you need to get outside....
Posted by Lord_Architect, Wed Apr-21-04 08:44 PM
Rhetoric. Semantics.
1923, You're batting a thousand with BS replies.
Posted by brokenchains79, Thu Apr-22-04 04:14 AM
*insert smug remark here and continue with your BS*
1924, ah yes, and you bring so much
Posted by mcdeezjawns, Thu Apr-22-04 07:45 AM
to the discussions with your little quips.You need to get off the dick and focus on yourself.....I said what I said because i think it is funny that people are trying to relate the dictionary to oppression...there are far more important issues in the world in this day and age and blaming Mirriam Webster isnt gonna help to lift anyone up....also i think it is completely ludicrous to try and say that the dictionary contributes to the oppression of a peoples simply because the majority of them cannot speak the language the way it was meant to be spoken....
1925, RE: ah yes, and you bring so much
Posted by foxnesn, Thu Apr-22-04 08:18 AM
I said what I said
>because i think it is funny that people are trying to relate
>the dictionary to oppression...also i think it
>is completely ludicrous to try and say that the dictionary
>contributes to the oppression of a peoples simply because
>the majority of them cannot speak the language the way it
>was meant to be spoken....

you are my hero for the day

1926, I see the Peanut Gallery is forming.
Posted by brokenchains79, Thu Apr-22-04 12:39 PM
The only oppression cats like you two think exist is non-american terrorism.


1927, ahh,, chiming back in i see...
Posted by mcdeezjawns, Thu Apr-22-04 08:18 PM
With some more fodder for the group to chew on....and useless as usual...

>The only oppression cats like you two think exist is
>non-american terrorism.


First off, careful lumping me and Foxxy together...We agree rarely, and only on issues that are based on common sense and logic, which about 99 percent of you "Activist" cats lack...Of course, you believe yourself to be some sort of higher thinking activist, when in reality, you're just another person wasting their time and effort on a message board...If you are trying to gain any sort of legitimacy with your pointless rebuttles, than perhaps you should put some effort into them, because as of yet, you're just another one of the internet revolutionary buffons that skeet around these boards running their mouth off...it's a shame too, cause it seems like you've got a legitimate brain in that dome of yours, you just tend to waste it on inflammatory bullshit on this site...
try again

peace
1928, Lol... you're apart of the elite 1% GTFOOHWTBS
Posted by brokenchains79, Fri Apr-23-04 09:34 AM
You're worthless and will be ignored from here on out.
1929, RE: Lol... you're apart of the elite 1% GTFOOHWTBS
Posted by mcdeezjawns, Fri Apr-23-04 10:51 AM
The Elite 1%?
WTF are you talking about?
By my responses to this bullshit thread you are making some serious assumptions about me...Its quite amusing actually....I wasnt aware that being part of the elite 1% meant strugglin to work and pay my own way through school so i can have a better life than my parents do, since they have to work 100 hours a week to put food on the table and are up to their eyeballs in debt....Ahh to live the American dream....Thats what's funny about all you internet revolutionaries...You assume that along with white skin comes guaranteed upper class excesses of money and power, both political and social....Keep dreamin, if thats what gets you through your days...

As for ignoring me, thats your perogative, but you'll be missing out...
1930, I feel your off base McSausage
Posted by da afrocentric pimpstah, Thu Apr-22-04 01:52 PM
No one is blaming the dictionary for oppression. Huey is stating that the dictionary often affirms status quo concepts and we must keep that in mind when we engage in critical dialectics.



>to the discussions with your little quips.You need to get
>off the dick and focus on yourself.....I said what I said
>because i think it is funny that people are trying to relate
>the dictionary to oppression...there are far more important
>issues in the world in this day and age and blaming Mirriam
>Webster isnt gonna help to lift anyone up....also i think it
>is completely ludicrous to try and say that the dictionary
>contributes to the oppression of a peoples simply because
>the majority of them cannot speak the language the way it
>was meant to be spoken....

1931, Shhh,,,,
Posted by mcdeezjawns, Thu Apr-22-04 08:25 PM
A yougn buck tryin to make his name on these boards by runnin off at the mouth and sounding like a complete idiot...Sounds real familiar round these parts...you've come to the right place...


>No one is blaming the dictionary for oppression.

"IMO the dictionary is one of the most politically-charged things in a society because it is the beacon of acceptable speech/terminology. therefore the linguistic interests of the ruling class will always be served. "

Still wanna claim that "no one is blaming the dictioanry for opression?" Cause seems to me thats exactly what Huey the internet revolutioanary is doing....We can play semantics all day, but the fact of the matter is, if you or anyone wants to blame oppression on the dictionary, than you deserve what you get...Cats dont wanna learn to speak the language? Well, than deal with the consequences...THat is not a racist idealogue, its reality...
It really tickles me pink when y'all fake thug internet revolutioanries run out of shit to blame on the white man, so you just start grabbin at straws.....I cant believe y'all figured outthe white man's master plan, to enslave you through the usage of proper english....WHo'da thunk it would work so well..???

peace

Huey is
>stating that the dictionary often affirms status quo
>concepts and we must keep that in mind when we engage in
>critical dialectics.
>
>
>
>>to the discussions with your little quips.You need to get
>>off the dick and focus on yourself.....I said what I said
>>because i think it is funny that people are trying to relate
>>the dictionary to oppression...there are far more important
>>issues in the world in this day and age and blaming Mirriam
>>Webster isnt gonna help to lift anyone up....also i think it
>>is completely ludicrous to try and say that the dictionary
>>contributes to the oppression of a peoples simply because
>>the majority of them cannot speak the language the way it
>>was meant to be spoken....

1932, McSausage!
Posted by da afrocentric pimpstah, Fri Apr-23-04 10:11 AM
Greetings,

Just because I'm a newbie in posting does n't make me a juvenile. I've lurked for quite some time before I incarnated on these boards. Also, keep in mind wisdom does come from the mouths of babes.

Asante


>A yougn buck tryin to make his name on these boards by
>runnin off at the mouth and sounding like a complete
>idiot...Sounds real familiar round these parts...you've come
>to the right place...
>
>
>>No one is blaming the dictionary for oppression.
>
>"IMO the dictionary is one of the most politically-charged
>things in a society because it is the beacon of acceptable
>speech/terminology. therefore the linguistic interests of
>the ruling class will always be served. "
>
>Still wanna claim that "no one is blaming the dictioanry for
>opression?" Cause seems to me thats exactly what Huey the
>internet revolutioanary is doing....We can play semantics
>all day, but the fact of the matter is, if you or anyone
>wants to blame oppression on the dictionary, than you
>deserve what you get...Cats dont wanna learn to speak the
>language? Well, than deal with the consequences...THat is
>not a racist idealogue, its reality...
>It really tickles me pink when y'all fake thug internet
>revolutioanries run out of shit to blame on the white man,
>so you just start grabbin at straws.....I cant believe y'all
>figured outthe white man's master plan, to enslave you
>through the usage of proper english....WHo'da thunk it would
>work so well..???
>
>peace
>
> Huey is
>>stating that the dictionary often affirms status quo
>>concepts and we must keep that in mind when we engage in
>>critical dialectics.
>>
>>
>>
>>>to the discussions with your little quips.You need to get
>>>off the dick and focus on yourself.....I said what I said
>>>because i think it is funny that people are trying to relate
>>>the dictionary to oppression...there are far more important
>>>issues in the world in this day and age and blaming Mirriam
>>>Webster isnt gonna help to lift anyone up....also i think it
>>>is completely ludicrous to try and say that the dictionary
>>>contributes to the oppression of a peoples simply because
>>>the majority of them cannot speak the language the way it
>>>was meant to be spoken....

1933, RE: McSausage!
Posted by mcdeezjawns, Fri Apr-23-04 10:55 AM
>>Just because I'm a newbie in posting does n't make me a juvenile.
No, but callin me "McSausage" sure does

>>I've lurked for quite some time before I incarnated on these boards.

THats wonderful

>>Also, keep in mind wisdom does come from the mouths of babes.

I assume you mean "babies"...and thats a cute little saying....

peace


1934, ignorant fuck...
Posted by TheProdigiousPoet, Fri Apr-23-04 02:24 AM

1935, care to expound?
Posted by mcdeezjawns, Fri Apr-23-04 05:11 AM
......
1936, the n word.
Posted by urthanheaven, Wed Apr-21-04 11:02 PM
when i was in the second grade a white kid handed me the dictionary when i said there was no such word as nigger.
1937, Language is not static.
Posted by brokenchains79, Thu Apr-22-04 04:15 AM
Neither is the application of it. What good is a language if it does not address phenomena.
1938, funny thing is, this is basically what McWhorter says
Posted by 40thStreetBlack, Thu Apr-22-04 12:14 PM
in one of his linguistics books. Rather ironic how he flips 180 degrees from that position in his social commentary.

--------------------------------------------------
"OK, and yet, if I get out of my chair right now and
beat the shit out of you, then *Im* the bad guy?"

- Aaron McGruder, exercising a right to be hostile
towards 'Family Circus' hack Bil Keane


1939, I don't know him... sounds like a shuffler though. n/m
Posted by brokenchains79, Thu Apr-22-04 12:42 PM
.
1940, I'm sure he'll shuffle across your path sooner or later
Posted by 40thStreetBlack, Thu Apr-22-04 01:25 PM
He's a professor of linguistics at Cal Berkley who crossed over into the neocon pundocricy with his social commentary in 'Losing the Race', a book about how black people are behind in American society not because of institutional racism or the lingering after-effects thereof, but rather because we choose to be dumb and not learn in school, listen to rap music and speak broken English. He's loved by white neocons because he's a black intellectual telling them what they want to hear.

The irony being, in his other book where he is strictly addressing linguistics from an objective academic standpoint as opposed to a subjective social commentary (as he is a linguist, not a sociologist), he says that there is in fact no such thing as one set proper "standard" English, that language is fluid and changes with usage over time. So if a word is added to the lexicon, or it's pronunciation or meaning is changed and becomes widespread enough to be commonly understood by speakers of the language, it becomes part of the language. He goes on to add that this is in fact how the English language has evolved from the old pure Germanic Anglo-Saxon to Middle-English to Modern English with the influx of Norse, Danish and Norman French words, grammer, pronunciation etc. into the language.

To which I replied in a previous post about this, I can only imagine what he thinks about the word "bling-bling" being added to the Oxford dictionary last year.

--------------------------------------------------
"OK, and yet, if I get out of my chair right now and
beat the shit out of you, then *Im* the bad guy?"

- Aaron McGruder, exercising a right to be hostile
towards 'Family Circus' hack Bil Keane


1941, so quit using any language at all. we'd be happier.
Posted by bluetiger, Thu Apr-22-04 07:36 AM


♥ ♥ ♥ ♥

Ŧ₪Ř

♀`,,``,,`♀


1942, that's not the point...
Posted by HueyShakur, Thu Apr-22-04 07:51 AM
the problem is with language, generally.

peace.
1943, you're a fuckin buffoon
Posted by mcdeezjawns, Thu Apr-22-04 08:20 PM
bottom line
1944, no go...
Posted by HueyShakur, Fri Apr-23-04 12:19 AM
deal with the content in a post for once. your attempts at insults have been ignored. i'm not gonna let you bait me.

enjoy.
1945, You Would Like This Dictionary Better
Posted by Wonderl33t, Thu Apr-22-04 07:53 AM
Rather than a dictionary by THE MAN, here is one Activist can relate to better

http://mysite.verizon.net/res0qiwd/ldict.htm

The Liberal Dictionary

Soviet Union- The workers' utopia that failed because the right people weren't in charge.

Public Interest- A liberal cause.

Special Interest- A conservative cause

Democracy- Letting us liberals choose your leaders

Peace- When all opposition to the socialist movement has been silenced through propaganda, imprisonment or violence

Truth- A bit of information which is manipulated into what liberals want you to think

Religious Extremist- One who holds to any set of ideologies that does not accept or coincide with the socialist or atheistic worldviews

Racism- Any disagreement that a white person may have with someone else who is not white

Civil Liberties- Rights that are given and can be easily revoked by the government

Loophole- Giving a conservative a special tax break

Target Tax Cut- Giving a liberal a special tax break

Racist- White Person

Hate-Speech- A Republican's/Christian's/Conservative's lips are moving

Free Speech- The speech of liberals

Free Press- All media except Fox News and Talk Radio

Blacklisting and Hate Mongering- Conservative speech

Homosexual- alternative lifestyle

Heterosexual- artificial gender role

Capital Punishment- Murder
Abortion- Choice

Ecomomic Growth- Opression

Government Growth- Prosperity

Racist/Bigot/Homophobe/Nazi/Fascist- Anyone winning an arguement against a liberal

Clear and Present Danger- Guns in hands of law abiding citizens

Global Warming-Yuppies driving SUVs

Gun control- Diane Feinstien and Robustly Abominable can have one, but not you

Intolerance- Disagreement with a liberal's point of view

Mean spirited- Anyone who subscribes to the notion, "love the sinner, hate the sin"

Uncle Tom-
1. A black male who is not a victim
2. A black male who is not liberal
3. A black male who doesn't listen to Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and the NAA(L)CP

Death Penalty-
1. The process by which future electoral majorities are lost.
2. The shameful process by which true entrepreneurs are mercilessly cast out of the system for their refusal to live by the restrictions of society.

Mexico- A reserve of convenient votes to be tapped as necessary.

Politically Correct- A style of speech devised solely to be continually one step ahead of Republicans and evolving to be continually one step ahead of any form of common sense whatsoever.

Sexual Relations- Any form of physical contact not involving physical contact.

Undocumented Immigrant- Illegal aliens

Mean-spirited- The tendency to disagree with a liberal

Bipartisanship- When conservatives give in to everything liberals want

Campaign Finance Reform- What needs to happen when Republicans find legitimate ways to raise more money than Democrats

Civil Rights- What everyone should have except conservatives

Compromise- When conservatives do everything liberals want

Conservative- Someone who wants to starve children and old people, destroy the environment, shoot everyone with their assault gun, run over others with their SUV, dump toxic waste in everyone else's swimming pool, and become one of The Richest 1% of Taxpayers.

The Constitution- A document written by a bunch of Dead White Males that needs to become a "living document" every time liberals don't get their way, and followed to the letter when they do.

Disenfranchisement- What happens when the liberal candidate loses the election.

Hate Speech-
1. Anything spoken by a conservative that even remotely implies Politically Correct People deserve anything less than sainthood.
2. Anytime a conservative says something that disagrees with a liberal.

McCarthyism - When average Americans exercise their right to boycott celebrities who make anti-American statements.

Media Bias- The right-wing slant of The Washington Times, National Review, Rush Limbaugh and Fox News Channel.

Negative Campaigning- Telling the truth about a liberal candidate.

Oil- What it's really about whenever a conservative deploys American troops.

The Poor- Anyone who will vote for liberals but can't make a donation to the DNC

Recession- Any time a conservative is President.

Right-wing Extremist-
1. Any Appellate or Supreme Court nomination by a conservative President.
2. Anyone who disagrees with a liberal.

Special Interests- Any group of people who say things liberals don't like

Spending cut- Any time a Federal Program doesn't get as much money as liberals want

Tax cut- Whenever The Rich don't have their tax burden at least doubled

Tax Hike- Whenever The Poor don't get their refund on taxes they never payed

Unfair- Whenever liberals don't get their way

Unilateral- Any time one nation in the world objects to military action taken by the U.S., even if every other country in the world supports us

Need- When someone wants someone else's money.

Greed- When someone wants to keep their money.



>i've come to realize that in any debate, folk most first
>agree on the terms before the argument commences. otherwise
>it's just sillyness.
>
>but too often when a discrepancy or disagreement over terms
>occurs folk run to the dictionary (usually merriam-webster)
>to "settle" it. as if the dictionary is the authority on all
>knowledge.
>
>IMO the dictionary is one of the most politically-charged
>things in a society because it is the beacon of acceptable
>speech/terminology. therefore the linguistic interests of
>the ruling class will always be served.
>
>don't get me wrong there is some use for a dictionary but
>not when it comes to debateable social terms like "poverty,"
>"racism," "gender," etc. because the definition provided
>will only serve the values of the ruling class.
>
>so please everyone...stop using the dictionary in an
>argument as a trump card because it just nonsensical and
>makes you look silly.
>
>any thoughts? opinions?
>
>peace.

"Remember kids--if you don't root for the Dodgers, there is a good chance you might not get into heaven" -Tommy Lasorda

The Illgaluminati set us up the bomb!!!

The Fellowship of the Fins:
absence, Al_Tru_Ist, BreezeBoogie, dank_reggae, Drewmathic, Ir_Cuba, LML, MIAthinker, Robert, Roofdogg10, wonderl33t, xenophobia



1946, Racist- White Person...lmao...
Posted by TheProdigiousPoet, Fri Apr-23-04 02:29 AM

1947, I was just thinking about this yesterday...good pt...
Posted by TheProdigiousPoet, Fri Apr-23-04 02:24 AM

1948, GREAT POST!
Posted by GOD, Fri Apr-23-04 11:00 AM
This is one of the better posts I've read on OKP. Thanks so much. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Moreover, dictionaries are descriptive, not prescriptive. They are always scrambling to catch up to the ways that people make use of language.
1949, i'm always glad to be in agreeance...
Posted by HueyShakur, Fri Apr-23-04 11:22 AM
with GOD.

lol. peace.