>What do you mean "beyond redemption"?

Some cats are just evil. Point blank.

> I do beleive some
>people are capable of being
>saved, of being shown 'the
>light'.

And for those others, if they commit a crime that merits execution, and we can be sure of their guilt, they should die.

>but rapist shouldn't be raped, and
>theives shouldn't be stolen from...do
>two wrongs make a right?

Hence, that's why it doesn't work in a literal sense. In our society we only have 2 options, imprisonment and death.

>>There are plenty of folks beyond
>>rehabilitiation. Exile might be
>>the only other bet.
>
>Exile is better than murder.

Exile also has far more practical problems than execution does.

>so where has the punishment came
>into play? and What
>if the criminal wants to
>die...is it still punishment.

Yes. What the criminal wants, and what society wants are two different things.

>>And now you're going to argue
>>about the prison industry complex?
>
>there's nothing to argue. I
>think we all know the
>state of our prison system.

That's not what I'm getting at. Do you even believe in the institution of prison?

>Sure we make the rules.
>A select few make the
>rules and often in undermining
>ways.

In our system you can always change something. It wasn't too long ago when the death penalty was illegal. It wasn't too long ago when legal segregation was in effect. I don't know why you subscribe to powerlessness, when that is clearly not the case in America.

>Do we not have a responsibility
>to "natural" law as well.

If you can show me where the was codified and debated maybe. But if you bring up Natural law we can make this more academic.

one
k. orr