>So you're glad that our system
>presupposes innocence?

Yes.

>>So no crime, no matter how
>>heinous merits death?
>
>That's right.

Okay.

>>Society
>>would not be better off
>>with the death of certain
>>particular individuals?
>
>Well, what I'm saying is: that's
>not my (or anyone's, including
>our judicial system's) call to
>make.

Why not? We have to live with these people. Should we not want to remove the molesters, rapists, and murderers from our ranks?

We may be
>able to theorize, but as
>far as I'm concerned, no
>one person or group of
>people can decide another person's
>death.

Why not? Do you support a woman's right to choose in the absolute sense?

>>I disagree with the death
>>penalty for practical reasons, not
>>moral ones.
>
>By "practical" do you mean economic?

No, in terms of convicting the guilty person.

>Well, most societies I'm aware of
>do not condone murder (or
>violent assault).

Warfare?

The precept
>operating in these societies is:
>the individual lives of its
>participants are valuable.

Under whose definition. That's certainly not Locke, Rosseau, Mill or any of those other cats, from which most governments are based on.

>>Sounds like turn the other
>>cheek to me.
>
>Explain what you mean by this
>phrase. Or, explain how
>this phrase is applicable.

It's religious reasoning. It's kinda odd coming from a socialist.

>>It would punish the person who
>>committed the crime. What
>>other goal is there to
>>accomplish?
>
>Punishment is not the ultimate goal,

Punishment is not the ultimate goal of the death penalty?

>and since you seem to
>be someone concerned with prison
>reform, I hope you understand
>that principle.

that's another topic altogether. I'm sure our philosophies are in much more accord when it comes to reformatting prisons.

>See, now I'm scared of you.
> What if my response
>to this post (or any
>other action I perform in
>the course of my daily
>life) is judged by you
>as "a crime that merits
>death?" I'm screwed.

- deliberate. planned, conscious murder - life

but if it reaches a capital level, particulary brutal, involving torture, kills a lot of people, - death.

under my system just don't choose option 2.

peace
k. orr