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Forum nameOkay Activist Archives
Topic subjectRE: Amazin
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=22&topic_id=18157&mesg_id=18166
18166, RE: Amazin
Posted by abduhu, Wed Feb-28-01 04:33 AM

>I'm contending that all of religion,
>even religious texts, are products
>of society.

by this, do you mean a product of man's hands?

>How can you
>respond by quoting the Quran?
>The fact that a passage
>in the Quran (or the
>Bible or whatever) gives evidence
>that Islam is natural is
>irrelevant. Can you give some
>other argument?

i could if i knew exactly what you mean by natural?
b/c is it natural for someone to be a murder?
or a rapist?
but what is natural, is that man knows that these things are wrong and that they corrupt and ruin society?

is it natural for a man to worship a rock or tree?
but what is natural, is that man knows that these things can do nothing positive or negative for him, without his energy to compel these things to do so.

is it natural for a man to sleep with a man?
but what is natural, is that man knows that this is an abomination, and that the purpose of his sexual organs is to procreate.

murder, rape, false worship, and homosexuality are "products" of society, and are not natural.
but the opposite of these are natural, and why? b/c they existed when "society" didnt.
and the "true nature" of man is the basis for "submission" or Islam, b/c the "unnature" of man is the basis for "not submitting" to the "true nature" of man. hence you have "submission" and "unsubmission" and these terms are synonomous with "islam" and "not islam".
and these have been around since the beginning of man, are around now, and will be around when man (in human form) isnt.

you said in an earlier post:
>After all, I consider myself in submission to Allah by the >sheer fact that as an omnipotent and omniscient being and the >creator of the world, Allah exerts significant control over my >existence. But no one would consider me a Muslim just by virtue >of this "submission".

the fact that you yourself acknowledged that "Allah exerts significant control over my existence", is the basis for the belief that proceeds the "religious practices" that come with religion.(this is the case, unless you dont really believe that)
the statement is a product of "nature", b/c if you said that "solarus exerts significant control over my existence", this is not only "natural", it is a fabrication. even if he was where you are and face to face. he cannot control your heartbeat, your nervous system, your energy, nothing, exept what you allow him to control. you cant even control the mentioned items, b/c you have no ability to do so. they function without your help. and this is "natural"="submission"="islam".
only when your "belief" is in accords with your "nature" and they are in accords with your "actions" then would you be considered a muslim in the "religious" sense of the word.

can anyone persuade a hindu in america to go to hajj in mecca at a cost of about $2,000-$3,000 if he didnt believe that Allah was the entity that was commanding him to go to the hajj in the first place? no! he would stay right here and wouldnt even waste his time or money.

>As human beings we are not born with any specific religious >practices. We are instead socialized to conform to a certain >religion, and anything we do that is considered religious is a >learned behavior.

so as human beings, what is your take on exactly what we are born with, if you are still not in cohesion with what i said already?