Hotep

Y'all like boycotting right? Well here is something I just received via email.

PEace
Solarus

Boycott Sony/Columbia Pictures! A Coalition of Black filmmaker's are asking for your support against Sony/Columbia Pictures Production of "Ali."

Currently, Black film technicians hold approximately 10 out of 300 jobs on the production. That number includes Will Smith's personal entourage as well as the subordinate and entry level positions held by Blacks on the production. There is NO key position held by a person of color. Will Smith has, for whatever reason, chosen to remain silent on this issue.

Black filmmakers that are on the project, have little to no input on the production. Once again we have a case of white people telling our stories, defining our people, with little or no input from us. The writer, producers, director, hairstylist, make-up artist, and wardrobe people are all WHITE!!! Many of the white people that hold these key positions,are insensitive, apathetic, white folks that know little and care less about the Black experience, let alone Mohammad Ali. In my opinion, this is an outrage! Competent, highly qualified Black people have been denied employment, in favor of hiring non-Blacks who's skills are inadequate as they apply to this production. Devious, underhanded, blatantly exclusionary tactics are being used to keep Black people off this production!

Several people from the production where recently in Chicago on a location scout at Elijah Mohammad's old house. Before the scout, they realized that there were no Black people in their group. They contacted a local janitor, and a PA (gopher) and asked them to ride with them and sit in on meetings with them for the day in an effort to give the impression to the Nation of Islam officialsthat they were dealing with a diverse group. The two hired guns, were promised jobs when they begin shooting in Chicago. Please, unite with Black filmmaker's in their effort to combat this unjust situation!! Call The Production office, and let them know that this type of blatant discrimination will NOT be tolerated. Voice your concerns to:

Michael Mann (Producer, Director, Writer); 310-207-7378, F:310-207-3426

John Cally: (CEO, Sony Pictures); 310-244-7777, F: 310-244-4070

Amy Pascal(Chairman Columbia Pictures); 310-244-6300, F: 310-244-6161

ok....but only after I see "Final Fantasy:The Spirits Within"

for a black movie then go watch Final Fantasy.

Simple as that.

PEace
Solarus

"Activism is the practice of using an internal, self-determining source of power to live one's life and/or enact some sort of change. Power is the ability to define reality, while self-determination is to decide or define one's self. Therefore activism, is not simply something done to right some wrong or to fight some cause but rather it is a way of life. Activism is the way of life where one can define self and change anything that may impede or control the reality that one chooses to live."-Solarus

>
>for a black movie then go
>watch Final Fantasy.
>
>Simple as that.

Why would I choose to rob the makers of the film I want to see just to support people of similar skin colour? That's like a white guy buying a ticket to see, say, "13 Days" to support its white filmmaker, then going to see "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon"...That, my friend, is racism.




"Blindfolds can't cover three eyes,
We're wise to the fact so we attack with what we know Heaven is the only good life" --Andre Benjamin

how many films feature black leads other than comedy? yea ill probably be abstainin from that flick

side note anybody know the deal on spike's jackie robinson joint?

I was not attempting to justify blatant racism on the part of movie studios because, yes, they neglect fine black films and actors/actresses far too much. However, that doesn't justify paying for a movie based on the race/ethnicity of who made it, then seeing something else.

Z

"Blindfolds can't cover three eyes,
We're wise to the fact so we attack with what we know Heaven is the only good life" --Andre Benjamin

>...Once
>again we have a case
>of white* people telling our
>stories, defining our people, with
>little or no input from
>us.

*I think you mean Jewish.

>The writer, producers, director,
>hairstylist, make-up artist, and wardrobe
>people are all WHITE!!!

You mean Jewish.

>Many
>of the white people

Jewish

>that
>hold these key positions,are insensitive,
>apathetic, white

Jewish

>folks that know
>little and care less about
>the Black experience, let alone
>Mohammad Ali...


JMello

"Si, concerned about the amount of acreage in cultivation for the growth of cocoa leaves."

"...it's about past 7 here, so we're actually in different timelines."

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but my predecessors, as well. And that's why I made the decision."

"I'm about to name my brother the ambassador to Chad."

"They don't seem to be flocking in right now, but it is dove season in Texas. I'm a hunter and if I decide to shoot some dove, I'll shoot 'em and eat 'em."

--President-Select George W. Bush--

Why? Is it humorous? I don't think so.
Is it wrong to talk about the fact that Jews are in complete control of American media?

JMello

"Si,I'm very concerned about the amount of acreage in cultivation for the growth of cocoa leaves."

"...it's about past 7 here, so we're actually in different timelines."

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but my predecessors, as well. And that's why I made the decision."

"I'm about to name my brother the ambassador to Chad."

"They don't seem to be flocking in right now, but it is dove season in Texas. I'm a hunter and if I decide to shoot some dove, I'll shoot 'em and eat 'em."

--President-Select George W. Bush--

It's an extremely risky stance to take, yet it is a topic that deserves to be addressed. No Black people will bring it up, just ask Chris Rock.

But that's a damn shame. I really like Michael Mann's films too.

DONTE

yeah, jews are hold down the make up artists...

When an issue is brought up in that manner, it dilutes the message and damages the credibility of the person raising the issue.

No one's denying that Jewish people are running things to a large extent. But you're only going to get shouted down if you say it that way. Not to say people will listen otherwise, but no one's gonna listen when it's brought up like that.

RED
Taking applications for new sigs.

>yeah, jews are hold down the
>make up artists...
>
>When an issue is brought up
>in that manner, it dilutes
>the message and damages the
>credibility of the person raising
>the issue.

What manner? Was I disrespectful?

>No one's denying that Jewish people
>are running things to a
>large extent. But you're only
>going to get shouted down
>if you say it that
>way.

What way are you talking about?

Not to say people
>will listen otherwise, but no
>one's gonna listen when it's
>brought up like that.

I know no one's supposed to talk about it, that point's been made clear to me over and over again.

JMello

"Si,I'm very concerned about the amount of acreage in cultivation for the growth of cocoa leaves."

"...it's about past 7 here, so we're actually in different timelines."

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but my predecessors, as well. And that's why I made the decision."

"I'm about to name my brother the ambassador to Chad."

"They don't seem to be flocking in right now, but it is dove season in Texas. I'm a hunter and if I decide to shoot some dove, I'll shoot 'em and eat 'em."

--President-Select George W. Bush--

>>When an issue is brought up
>>in that manner, it dilutes
>>the message and damages the
>>credibility of the person raising
>>the issue.

>What manner? Was I disrespectful?

No, but you affirmed many of the more ridiculous views put forth by the author in your response. In other words, in "clarifying" that it's Jews who are "insensitive, etc. etc." you were reinforcing the disrespect of the author.

Alek
________________________________
"Say some shit that suprise me...
My face don't change."

>It's an extremely risky stance to
>take, yet it is a
>topic that deserves to be
>addressed. No Black people
>will bring it up, just
>ask Chris Rock.

It's only risky if you're in the entertainment or financial business. The whole goal is to keep it in the closet, hence the charges of anti-semitism and name-changes.


JMello

"Si,I'm very concerned about the amount of acreage in cultivation for the growth of cocoa leaves."

"...it's about past 7 here, so we're actually in different timelines."

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but my predecessors, as well. And that's why I made the decision."

"I'm about to name my brother the ambassador to Chad."

"They don't seem to be flocking in right now, but it is dove season in Texas. I'm a hunter and if I decide to shoot some dove, I'll shoot 'em and eat 'em."

--President-Select George W. Bush--

TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I moved down to Miami and EVERY LAWYER I HAVE EVER KNOWN OF DOWN HERE office buildings and ALL are Jewish.

Most of the credits that I read after movies,TV programs, and news programs carry Jews as thier top executives. They get away with instigating harmful ideas and everyone goes along with it, and they make money, while white people take and Accept the blame... So gross!



Another thing, Jews play off of the ignorance of the masses, many of them are "ANTI-Semetic" also because they show hatred toward Arabs. Arabs are Semites too btw...


SEMITES, term first used toward the end of the 18th century for peoples listed in the Bible (see Genesis 10:21-32) as descended from Shem, the eldest son of the biblical patriarch Noah. Today, however, the term Semite is a linguistic, not a racial, classification; it refers to peoples who spoke or speak any of the Semitic languages. Ancient peoples grouped under this term include those who inhabited Aram, Assyria, Babylonia, Canaan (including the Hebrews), and Phoenicia. Among modern peoples speaking Semitic languages are the Arabs and Jews, particularly in Israel.


Just a little lesson

>TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I
>moved down to Miami and
>EVERY LAWYER I HAVE EVER
>KNOWN OF DOWN HERE office
>buildings and ALL are Jewish.

Terrific point! You know what? All the dining hall workers at my school are black! That must mean they *want* to make no money and get fired for no reason.


They get away
>with instigating harmful ideas and
>everyone goes along with it,

Which harmful ideas? I completely agree that the mainstream movie industry does a poor job of reflecting or even addressing our society, but that's just a constant of "the mainstream." Do you think that's part of a malicious Jewish agenda?

>and they make money, while
>white people take and Accept
>the blame... So gross!

I don't understand this at all. White people take and accept the blame? What blame? Which white people? What is this point?

>Another thing, Jews play
>off of the ignorance of
>the masses, many of them
>are "ANTI-Semetic" also because they
>show hatred toward Arabs. Arabs
>are Semites too btw...

How is this "playing off the ignorance of the masses"? I think I understand your point, that Jews are somehow "getting away" with hatred towards Arabs, but how and why?

Alek
________________________________
"Say some shit that suprise me...
My face don't change."

>It's only risky if you're in
>the entertainment or financial business.
> The whole goal is
>to keep it in the
>closet, hence the charges of
>anti-semitism and name-changes.

I'm sorry, but look:
a) I'm not sure what you think is being "kept in the closet," but Jewish influence in the entertainment media is common knowledge.

b) If you mean that some sort of subversive Jewish agenda is being "kept in the closet," then that's just about as dopey as saying that African-americans have a subversive agenda to corrupt our youth through rap music.

c) "hence the charges of anti-semitism and name-changes"? Give me a break. That's an ignorant assumption, and a really weak causality. You don't have to know much American history to know where the "charges of antisemitism" come from (I'll give you a hint -- actual anti-semitism). And as for name changes, that's a sad superficial argument.

Alek
________________________________
"Say some shit that suprise me...
My face don't change."

to separate "Jews" as a distinct group from other Europeans (white people) is a grave mistake.

They are still European and are treated as such.

PEace
Solarus

"Activism is the practice of using an internal, self-determining source of power to live one's life and/or enact some sort of change. Power is the ability to define reality, while self-determination is to decide or define one's self. Therefore activism, is not simply something done to right some wrong or to fight some cause but rather it is a way of life. Activism is the way of life where one can define self and change anything that may impede or control the reality that one chooses to live."-Solarus

>to separate "Jews" as a distinct
>group from other Europeans (white
>people) is a grave mistake.
>
>
>They are still European and are
>treated as such.

are they? last i checked, it was europeans who cooked six million of them in a 6 year period.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E
TinkyWinky - marley marl
Vivrant - Pete Rock
bfnh - Premier
guinness - Jay Dee
Mosaic - Hi Tek
Illwill - Hank Shocklee
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Buckwild
Raina - Jazzy Joyce
phil - The Rza
nickelz45 - Diamond D
Donwill - Automator
honorable mention:
fire - fire

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

Hotep

And you saw the response that other Europeans gave to this atrocity. Germans and Italians broke a cardinal rule: DON'T TREAT HUMANS (FELLOW EUROPEANS) LIKE ANIMALS. What about the MILLIONS of Afrikans who were being killed during the SAME WAR (European War II AKA WWII)? Why doesn't anyone talk about them? Why isn't the Afrikan Holocaust (the Maafa) treated in the same way as the Jewish Holocaust? How come those surviving lynchers of Afrikans in America throughout the 1900s are not hunted down and brought to justice? How come an "AFRIKAN HOMELAND" isn't secured? For instance arable land in Afrika that is owned by Europeans should be stripped away and given to back to Afrikans and Europeans should be required to leave like how the European nation supported and continue to support the European Jews who reclaimed Israel as their "homeland" from the Palestinians that were already there.

This alone shows that Jews are still considered "European" by Europeans despite any oppression that they may receive from their fellow European siblings. European women are oppressed by European men but they are STILL European. Hence Jews are still deserving of European love and favor unlike those filthy Afrikans whose death toll at the hands of Europeans is not even worth mentioning.

PEace
Solarus


"Activism is the practice of using an internal, self-determining source of power to live one's life and/or enact some sort of change. Power is the ability to define reality, while self-determination is to decide or define one's self. Therefore activism, is not simply something done to right some wrong or to fight some cause but rather it is a way of life. Activism is the way of life where one can define self and change anything that may impede or control the reality that one chooses to live."-Solarus

you'll hear no argument from me on that part of the issue. i was just trying to keep _some people_ on this thread aware of the way jews tend to be treated by europeans (after all, the germans killed 6 million during WWII, but pretty much every country in europe held mass killings, etc. over the past 500 years).

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E
TinkyWinky - marley marl
Vivrant - Pete Rock
bfnh - Premier
guinness - Jay Dee
Mosaic - Hi Tek
Illwill - Hank Shocklee
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Buckwild
Raina - Jazzy Joyce
phil - The Rza
nickelz45 - Diamond D
Donwill - Automator
honorable mention:
fire - fire

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

If you believe WWII was to defend the Jews you are more confused than I thought. Look at the time table for US, Soviet and British involvement...then come back and talk to me.


JMello

"Those of us who spent time in the agricultural sector and in the heartland, we understand how unfair the death penalty is - the death tax is."

"Si, I'm very concerned about the amount of acreage in cultivation for the growth of cocoa leaves."

"...it's about past 7 here, so we're actually in different timelines."

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but my predecessors, as well. And that's why I made the decision."

"I'm about to name my brother the ambassador to Chad."

"They don't seem to be flocking in right now, but it is dove season in Texas. I'm a hunter and if I decide to shoot some dove, I'll shoot 'em and eat 'em."

--President-Select George W. Bush--

that the war was to DEFEND the Jews. The only time Europeans "defend" each other is when their own personal interests are at stake. I said "response to it" meaning the total condemnation of Nazi activity as opposed to the lack of condemnation of standard European activity towards Afrikans. (The public "detachment" of some from European atrocities, accounts for nothing considering that they maintain power as a result of these atrocities.) The Rhodes scholar is a prestigious program named after Cecil Rhodes and founded through his riches gain by his imperialistic/colonial ventures in Africa. Ever heard of "Rhodesia?" Would a program founded by a Nazi be held in such high accord?

Even the ALLOWANCE of Jews into circles of "power" speaks for itself. Would AFRIKANS ever be allowed to CONTROL the entertainment industry and media? The "Jewish solidarity" alone is not enough for a group of people to take control over a medium that is used as a tool to spread and universalize Western ideology.

PEace
Solarus

"Activism is the practice of using an internal, self-determining source of power to live one's life and/or enact some sort of change. Power is the ability to define reality, while self-determination is to decide or define one's self. Therefore activism, is not simply something done to right some wrong or to fight some cause but rather it is a way of life. Activism is the way of life where one can define self and change anything that may impede or control the reality that one chooses to live."-Solarus

>No one said that the war was to DEFEND
>the Jews.

Indeed it wasn't.

>The only
>time Europeans "defend" each other
>is when their own personal
>interests are at stake.

You're absolutely right, but you say that like it's not true for every single other cultural/ethnic group.

>I said "response to it"
>meaning the total condemnation of
>Nazi activity

Please tell me you're joking.

1) WHICH Europeans are you talking about? England? The only thing they condemned was Nazi desires to gain economic/political control over Europe. France? No. Italy? No. Russia? Nope. Spain? Nope. Switzerland? Not at all. Eastern Europe? They might have, but they were all killed or imprisoned.

So there was NO "total condemnation," especially not where genocide was concerned. Any objections at all (and this includes America) addressed the Nazis' plan for Aryan domination.

>as opposed to
>the lack of condemnation of
>standard European activity towards Afrikans.

This is true, but I'd like to point out that ignoring genocide is just a general trend of Western Culture.

>The Rhodes scholar
>is a prestigious program named
>after Cecil Rhodes and founded
>through his riches gain by
>his imperialistic/colonial ventures in Africa.
>Ever heard of "Rhodesia?"
>Would a program founded by
>a Nazi be held in
>such high accord?

Um. Yes. Swiss banks. Mercedes. etc.

>Even the ALLOWANCE of Jews into
>circles of "power" speaks for
>itself.

It does. It speaks to two things:
First, it speaks to the willingness of Western culture to view Jews in the postwar era as part of "the majority" or as "standard westerners."
Second, it speaks to the inherent (and peculiar) status that this particular ethnicity has held in Western society for as long as we can remember.

Would AFRIKANS ever
>be allowed to CONTROL the
>entertainment industry and media?
>The "Jewish solidarity" alone is
>not enough for a group
>of people to take control
>over a medium that is
>used as a tool to
>spread and universalize Western ideology.

Completely agree. It has nothing to do with ethnicity or ethnic solidarity, it has to do with one group being empowered by the rest of society, and another disempowered.

Alek

________________________________
"Say some shit that suprise me...
My face don't change."

Hotep

>1) WHICH Europeans are you talking
>about? England? The
>only thing they condemned was
>Nazi desires to gain economic/political
>control over Europe. France?
>No. Italy? No.
>Russia? Nope. Spain?
>Nope. Switzerland? Not at
>all. Eastern Europe? They
>might have, but they were
>all killed or imprisoned.
>
>So there was NO "total condemnation,"
>especially not where genocide was
>concerned. Any objections at
>all (and this includes America)
>addressed the Nazis' plan for
>Aryan domination.

Are there not Jewish organizations today that search for Nazi officials today? The question then becomes: When found, why are they allowed to be held up on charges or expedited to Israel for punishment? If they are in America why are they punished since are no in the Jurisdiction of the Israeli government? Why were Nazis even brought up for "War crimes" ?

Let's look and compare media depictions of the Jewish holocaust and the African experience in the Americas and on the continent. Why are Africans consistently misrepresented and in many cases Europeans depicted as "good" or "savior" of the heathenous people?

Oh I forgot Jews control the media.

My bad.


All I'm saying is that despite intra-group conflict among Europeans and European Jews, JEWS ARE STILL EUROPEANS.

For the Afrikan, "siding" with this so-called "oppressed minority" is SUICIDE. NAACP is a perfect example. Uniting with Jews has been a smokescreen to the upliftment of the Afrikan community. How can you unite with someone when you don't know WHO YOU ARE? That is foolish. Negroes still think they are Negroes.

PEace
Solarus


"Activism is the practice of using an internal, self-determining source of power to live one's life and/or enact some sort of change. Power is the ability to define reality, while self-determination is to decide or define one's self. Therefore activism, is not simply something done to right some wrong or to fight some cause but rather it is a way of life. Activism is the way of life where one can define self and change anything that may impede or control the reality that one chooses to live."-Solarus

>>1) WHICH Europeans are you talking
>>about? England? The
>>only thing they condemned was
>>Nazi desires to gain economic/political
>>control over Europe. France?
>>No. Italy? No.
>>Russia? Nope. Spain?
>>Nope. Switzerland? Not at
>>all. Eastern Europe? They
>>might have, but they were
>>all killed or imprisoned.

>>So there was NO "total condemnation,"
>>especially not where genocide was
>>concerned. Any objections at
>>all (and this includes America)
>>addressed the Nazis' plan for
>>Aryan domination.


>Are there not Jewish organizations today
>that search for Nazi officials
>today?

Yes. But that's really unrelated to European "condemnation" of Nazi actions. This has been a LOOOOONG time coming.

That's what I was writing about above.

>The question then
>becomes: When found, why are
>they allowed to be held
>up on charges or expedited
>to Israel for punishment?

They usually aren't (found, tried, or expedited).

>If they are in America

They're not. They're in the Balkans, Africa and Latin America.

>Why were Nazis even brought
>up for "War crimes" ?

Did you really ask this?

>Let's look and compare media depictions
>of the Jewish holocaust and
>the African experience in the
>Americas and on the continent.
>Why are Africans consistently
>misrepresented and in many cases
>Europeans depicted as "good" or
>"savior" of the heathenous people?

I agree completely (as I said before) with your statement that the genocide of Africans that has occured in the Americas and Europe is not sufficiently exposed, or understood. There's no contention here.

>Oh I forgot Jews control the
>media.
>
>My bad.

There IS contention here. Let me get this clear. You're implying that JEWS as members of a particular religious group have purposely attempted to stifle understanding and exposure of the African genocide. That's just wrong.

Jews (and others) in positions of POWER and WEALTH do this stifling. That includes anyone involved in the formation of our majority culture. Whether or not jews control the media (which, depending on how you define "jews," they basically do), the salient feature of that group is not their RELIGION but their POWER and their IGNORANCE. Just like the salient feature of Latino men who work in all of CA's agrabusiness is their DISENFRANCHISEMENT and LACK of power, not their ethnicity. We can certainly talk about the links between ethnicity and empowerment, but to say objectively that ethnicity DETERMINES empowerment (instead of saying that our current society makes such a determination based partially on ethnicity but also on wealth and location) is prejudiced -- as I'm sure you know.

Alek



>All I'm saying is that despite
>intra-group conflict among Europeans and
>European Jews, JEWS ARE STILL
>EUROPEANS.

I'm not a European, and I'm Jewish. Jews in North Africa? Not European. Jews in Middle Asia and the Mediterranean? Not European. It's only European Jews that are European.

>For the Afrikan, "siding" with this
>so-called "oppressed minority" is SUICIDE.

Well, I've gotten the sense from you that you feel siding with ANYONE would be "suicide." I personally think that forging sincere unity will only help, but we don't have to get into issues of tolerance again (or at least, let's do it privately).

>How can you unite with
>someone when you don't know
>WHO YOU ARE? That is
>foolish.

I agree, up to a point. Keep in mind, though, that groups often (well, usually) define themselves by who they are in accord with. In deciding who to ally with, they DO need to understand themselves, but also they need to understand the other.

Alek
________________________________
"Say some shit that suprise me...
My face don't change."

>>Are there not Jewish organizations today
>>that search for Nazi officials
>>today?
>
>Yes. But that's really unrelated
>to European "condemnation" of Nazi
>actions. This has been
>a LOOOOONG time coming.
>
>That's what I was writing about
>above.
>

OK



>>Why were Nazis even brought
>>up for "War crimes" ?
>
>Did you really ask this?

I was trying to make the point that how many European nations have been collectively brought up on charges (by some worldwid organization like League of NAtions, United NAtions) against the "war crimes" they committed against non-European peoples.

>>Oh I forgot Jews control the
>>media.
>>
>>My bad.
>
>There IS contention here. Let
>me get this clear.
>You're implying that JEWS as
>members of a particular religious
>group have purposely attempted to
>stifle understanding and exposure of
>the African genocide. That's
>just wrong.
>

No I'm implying that members of a CULTURAL GROUP (Europeans) have purposely stifled or misrepresented the truth. The "Jews control the media" comment was more directed for JMello who initiated this whole conversation by saying their is a Jews a totally distinct group from other Europeans.




>I'm not a European, and I'm
>Jewish. Jews in North
>Africa? Not European.
>Jews in Middle Asia and
>the Mediterranean? Not European.
>It's only European Jews that
>are European.
>

Israeli Jews are European. Just like white AMericans are European. white Australians are European ... The reason for the distinction for Afrikan warrior scholars is to not think fall into the fallacious belief that the cultural core of these non-continental Europeans are somehow CULTURALLY not the same as their predecessors. You don't lose your culture upon arriving on a new land. It simply adapts to fit the new experiences and situations UNLESS your cultural heritage and ideology is systematically suppressed like what has been done to Afrikans WORLDWIDE. This is the reasoning behind the term Afrikan Diaspora. Similarly there is a "European Diaspora."


>
>>How can you unite with
>>someone when you don't know
>>WHO YOU ARE? That is
>>foolish.
>
>I agree, up to a point.
> Keep in mind, though,
>that groups often (well, usually)
>define themselves by who they
>are in accord with. In
>deciding who to ally with,
>they DO need to understand
>themselves, but also they need
>to understand the other.
>

I'm glad you said this. This shows the distinction between our views. Afrikans have historically defined themselves INDEPENDENTLY of any other peoples. Europeans have historically possessed a need to be in close proximity and CONTROL of others in order to assert their own self-image. Like I said before an Afrikan without her/his own culture is DEAD (according to ANY traditional Afrikan "ethnic" group).

"Activism is the practice of using an internal, self-determining source of power to live one's life and/or enact some sort of change. Power is the ability to define reality, while self-determination is to decide or define one's self. Therefore activism, is not simply something done to right some wrong or to fight some cause but rather it is a way of life. Activism is the way of life where one can define self and change anything that may impede or control the reality that one chooses to live."-Solarus

>...You don't lose
>your culture upon arriving on
>a new land....

You done contradicted yourself now.
If the above is correct, than the Jews who migrated to Europe early on (pre 1940s), as all did, cannot be called European as you claim. Regardless of the length of time spent in Europe, they never became Europeans. Unless you're going to argue that the Jews never migrated from the Middle East, your whole argument is suspect and dismissed.


JMello

"Those of us who spent time in the agricultural sector and in the heartland, we understand how unfair the death penalty is - the death tax is."

"Si, I'm very concerned about the amount of acreage in cultivation for the growth of cocoa leaves."

"...it's about past 7 here, so we're actually in different timelines."

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but my predecessors, as well. And that's why I made the decision."

"I'm about to name my brother the ambassador to Chad."

"They don't seem to be flocking in right now, but it is dove season in Texas. I'm a hunter and if I decide to shoot some dove, I'll shoot 'em and eat 'em."

--President-Select George W. Bush--

HOtep

You are right. They DIDN'T migrate from the Middle East.

PEace

"Activism is the practice of using an internal, self-determining source of power to live one's life and/or enact some sort of change. Power is the ability to define reality, while self-determination is to decide or define one's self. Therefore activism, is not simply something done to right some wrong or to fight some cause but rather it is a way of life. Activism is the way of life where one can define self and change anything that may impede or control the reality that one chooses to live."-Solarus

where, when, why and how these groups of Jews left the "Holy land?"

Why leave the most sacred of lands to go to Europe under the oppressive reign of "white" Christians?

To escape Muslims, only to be at the mercy in a "foreign" land to Christians who despise you?

PEace
Solarus


"Activism is the practice of using an internal, self-determining source of power to live one's life and/or enact some sort of change. Power is the ability to define reality, while self-determination is to decide or define one's self. Therefore activism, is not simply something done to right some wrong or to fight some cause but rather it is a way of life. Activism is the way of life where one can define self and change anything that may impede or control the reality that one chooses to live."-Solarus

>I was trying to make the
>point that how many European
>nations have been collectively brought
>up on charges (by some
>worldwid organization like League of
>NAtions, United NAtions) against the
>"war crimes" they committed against
>non-European peoples.

Okay. That's definitely true. But implied in that answer is your support of the Nuremburg trials, etc. Is that basically right?

>>There IS contention here. Let
>>me get this clear.
>>You're implying that JEWS as
>>members of a particular religious
>>group have purposely attempted to
>>stifle understanding and exposure of
>>the African genocide. That's
>>just wrong.

>No I'm implying that members of
>a CULTURAL GROUP (Europeans) have
>purposely stifled or misrepresented the
>truth.

Agreed.

>The "Jews control
>the media" comment was more
>directed for JMello who initiated
>this whole conversation by saying
>their is a Jews a
>totally distinct group from other
>Europeans.

Fair enough.

>Israeli Jews are European.

Not really, man. Recent immigrants certainly are, but many Jews have lived there forever, and others are coming from all over the place.

>Just
>like white AMericans are European.

I'm not.

>You don't lose
>your culture upon arriving on
>a new land.

Agreed. However, if you participate in a culture and contribute to it, you're part of it at least in some sense.

It
>simply adapts to fit the
>new experiences and situations UNLESS
>your cultural heritage and ideology
>is systematically suppressed like what
>has been done to Afrikans
>WORLDWIDE.

True.


>This is the
>reasoning behind the term Afrikan
>Diaspora. Similarly there is
>a "European Diaspora."

True.

>> Keep in mind, though,
>>that groups often (well, usually)
>>define themselves by who they
>>are in accord with. In
>>deciding who to ally with,
>>they DO need to understand
>>themselves, but also they need
>>to understand the other.

>I'm glad you said this.
>This shows the distinction between
>our views. Afrikans have historically
>defined themselves INDEPENDENTLY of any
>other peoples.

Now come on, you're an African scholar. You know how long African peoples have been in contact with their *own* differing cultures and other foreign ones. This is PRECISELY how they define themselves. For instance, what distinguishes Wolof culture in Senegal from Mande? It sounds redundant, but it's their differences. Their different chieftancies, religious practice, artistic/ceremonial practice. And as much as you're bent on resisting Western influence in Africa and the African diaspora, it has definitely occured. Countries/peoples define themselves now on their levels of industrialization, political ideology (i.e. some West African leaders are strong Marxists, while others are trying to build republics).


Europeans have
>historically possessed a need to
>be in close proximity and
>CONTROL of others in order
>to assert their own self-image.

Basically. I'm not sure if I'd define it exactly this way, but imperialism has definitely been the sinister constant.


> Like I said before
>an Afrikan without her/his own
>culture is DEAD (according to
>ANY traditional Afrikan "ethnic" group).

Except that "traditional" ethnic groups are being redefined in Africa (and everywhere else), and in some cases they're being redefined more inclusively. Others, less.

Alek

________________________________
"Say some shit that suprise me...
My face don't change."

>to separate "Jews" as a distinct
>group from other Europeans (white
>people) is a grave mistake.
>
>
>They are still European and are
>treated as such.

Since when are they European????

JMello

"Those of us who spent time in the agricultural sector and in the heartland, we understand how unfair the death penalty is - the death tax is."

"Si, I'm very concerned about the amount of acreage in cultivation for the growth of cocoa leaves."

"...it's about past 7 here, so we're actually in different timelines."

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but my predecessors, as well. And that's why I made the decision."

"I'm about to name my brother the ambassador to Chad."

"They don't seem to be flocking in right now, but it is dove season in Texas. I'm a hunter and if I decide to shoot some dove, I'll shoot 'em and eat 'em."

--President-Select George W. Bush--

>Since when are they European????

Since the hundreds and hundreds of years that Jews have been living in Europe and participating in European society.

Alek

________________________________
"Say some shit that suprise me...
My face don't change."

>>Since when are they European????
>
>Since the hundreds and hundreds of
>years that Jews have been
>living in Europe and participating
>in European society.

So pretty soon we'll all be Americans?!? :-)


JMello

"Those of us who spent time in the agricultural sector and in the heartland, we understand how unfair the death penalty is - the death tax is."

"Si, I'm very concerned about the amount of acreage in cultivation for the growth of cocoa leaves."

"...it's about past 7 here, so we're actually in different timelines."

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but my predecessors, as well. And that's why I made the decision."

"I'm about to name my brother the ambassador to Chad."

"They don't seem to be flocking in right now, but it is dove season in Texas. I'm a hunter and if I decide to shoot some dove, I'll shoot 'em and eat 'em."

--President-Select George W. Bush--

>So pretty soon we'll all be
>Americans?!? :-)

Uhhh. Look, one can identify oneself however one wants to, but by MY definition: If you live somewhere for generations and participate in that society, you're a part of it.

In that vein, we're pretty much already all Americans (for better or for worse).

Alek

________________________________
"Say some shit that suprise me...
My face don't change."

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E
TinkyWinky - marley marl
Vivrant - Pete Rock
bfnh - Premier
guinness - Jay Dee
Mosaic - Hi Tek
Illwill - Hank Shocklee
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Buckwild
Raina - Jazzy Joyce
phil - The Rza
nickelz45 - Diamond D
Donwill - Automator
honorable mention:
fire - fire

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

I didn't say anything like that bro.


JMello

"Si,I'm very concerned about the amount of acreage in cultivation for the growth of cocoa leaves."

"...it's about past 7 here, so we're actually in different timelines."

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but my predecessors, as well. And that's why I made the decision."

"I'm about to name my brother the ambassador to Chad."

"They don't seem to be flocking in right now, but it is dove season in Texas. I'm a hunter and if I decide to shoot some dove, I'll shoot 'em and eat 'em."

--President-Select George W. Bush--

That's right, I don't hate Jews, I just acknowledge that they run and own everything in the media and in financial services. And law, too. Oh, oops, except for the fact that I'm a lawyer and I'm not Jewish. Oh and the number of Jewish lawyers that I've worked with seems to be a good deal smaller than their representation in the population, despite the fact that I am a securities lawyer (read: finance). No, I don't hate Jews. I just generalize about them with impunity since there are virtually no Jews who come to this website and so no balance can be found for the discourse.

Peace.

There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what you're talking about.
-- John von Neumann

>I just
>generalize about them with impunity
>since there are virtually no
>Jews who come to this
>website and so no balance
>can be found for the
>discourse.

I never said anything about lawyers...just the entertainment industry. All one has to do is read the credits on albums and films to appreciate the saturation.

Less than 2% of the population yet <%50 of particular industries, something doesn't add up. It bothers me as much as the over-representation of African-Americans in the service industry.

P.S. Did I say I wasn't Jewish?

JMello

"Si,I'm very concerned about the amount of acreage in cultivation for the growth of cocoa leaves."

"...it's about past 7 here, so we're actually in different timelines."

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but my predecessors, as well. And that's why I made the decision."

"I'm about to name my brother the ambassador to Chad."

"They don't seem to be flocking in right now, but it is dove season in Texas. I'm a hunter and if I decide to shoot some dove, I'll shoot 'em and eat 'em."

--President-Select George W. Bush--

Okay, so Jews run the entertainment industry? So what?

I think the point of the original post was that there are people who aren't black who are telling our stories. What does it matter if it's Jews or Italians or Icelandics -- the point is, they are not blacks.

So what exactly are you trying to say by pointing out that it's Jews running things, as opposed to just any other white people?

The impression you give is that you feel there is a substantive difference, one with a more negative impact, between Jews and other whites or non-blacks. If so, what is that difference? Because, unless there is a difference why mention it?

I've been in and around the entertainment industry for some 14-15 years. Yep, there's a lot of Jews. I don't know what closed world you're living in where people don't know this. It's no secret. But what are you trying to say about this fact?

RED
Taking applications for new sigs.

>Okay, so Jews run the entertainment
>industry? So what?
>
>I think the point of the
>original post was that there
>are people who aren't black
>who are telling our stories.

He didn't say "not black," he said white.

>What does it matter if
>it's Jews or Italians or
>Icelandics -- the point is,
>they are not blacks.

Jews are not tradirionally considered white.
His point was that whites are controlling the film, my point was that it isn't whites but Jews.

>So what exactly are you trying
>to say by pointing out
>that it's Jews running things,
>as opposed to just any
>other white people?

See above.

>The impression you give is that
>you feel there is a
>substantive difference, one with a
>more negative impact, between Jews
>and other whites or non-blacks.
>If so, what is that
>difference? Because, unless there is
>a difference why mention it?

Of course there's a difference,. Look at per capita wealth, health, influence and other social indicators. Jews are as far away from whites as whites are from blacks.

>I've been in and around the
>entertainment industry for some 14-15
>years. Yep, there's a lot
>of Jews. I don't know
>what closed world you're living
>in where people don't know
>this. It's no secret. But
>what are you trying to
>say about this fact?

Just clarifying the original poster's comments.
By the way, why do so many, like yourself, try to shut down the conversation when people call attention to this fact. Could it be the same reason men get dismiss the pay difference between men and women??? Fear.

JMello

"Those of us who spent time in the agricultural sector and in the heartland, we understand how unfair the death penalty is - the death tax is."

"Si, I'm very concerned about the amount of acreage in cultivation for the growth of cocoa leaves."

"...it's about past 7 here, so we're actually in different timelines."

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but my predecessors, as well. And that's why I made the decision."

"I'm about to name my brother the ambassador to Chad."

"They don't seem to be flocking in right now, but it is dove season in Texas. I'm a hunter and if I decide to shoot some dove, I'll shoot 'em and eat 'em."

--President-Select George W. Bush--

>Jews are not tradirionally considered white.
>
>His point was that whites are
>controlling the film, my point
>was that it isn't whites
>but Jews.

traditionally? vague word. 150 years ago, the irish weren't considered white. 100-110 years ago, italians weren't considered white. the definition of what is "white" in america changes all the time. now? jews are white. they're jewish whites. but they're white. they don't get tailed in department stores. nobody profiles jews. did the census form have "white; black; jewish; latino; asian" on it? nope. by modern american societal standards, those who are culturally jewish are considered as white as those who are culturally irish.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E
TinkyWinky - marley marl
Vivrant - Pete Rock
bfnh - Premier
guinness - Jay Dee
Mosaic - Hi Tek
Illwill - Hank Shocklee
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Buckwild
Raina - Jazzy Joyce
phil - The Rza
nickelz45 - Diamond D
Donwill - Automator
honorable mention:
fire - fire

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

>>Jews are not tradirionally considered white.
>>
>>His point was that whites are
>>controlling the film, my point
>>was that it isn't whites
>>but Jews.
>
>traditionally? vague word. 150
>years ago, the irish weren't
>considered white. 100-110 years
>ago, italians weren't considered white.
> the definition of what
>is "white" in america changes
>all the time. now?
> jews are white.
>they're jewish whites. but
>they're white. they don't
>get tailed in department stores.
> nobody profiles jews.
>did the census form have
>"white; black; jewish; latino; asian"
>on it? nope.
>by modern american societal standards,
>those who are culturally jewish
>are considered as white as
>those who are culturally irish.

Really? Do people often spraypaint xed out shamrocks or Union Jacks on Irish churches? Does Min. Farrakhan ever talk about the undue influence Italians have on the restaurant business or the Greeks in the dry cleaning industry?

My point is that in many ways Jews think of themselves as white, but in reality they are only on the fringe of whiteness; because whiteness in America is indeed flexible. This flexibilty allows it to expand and contract with equal ease.


JMello

"Those of us who spent time in the agricultural sector and in the heartland, we understand how unfair the death penalty is - the death tax is."

"Si, I'm very concerned about the amount of acreage in cultivation for the growth of cocoa leaves."

"...it's about past 7 here, so we're actually in different timelines."

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but my predecessors, as well. And that's why I made the decision."

"I'm about to name my brother the ambassador to Chad."

"They don't seem to be flocking in right now, but it is dove season in Texas. I'm a hunter and if I decide to shoot some dove, I'll shoot 'em and eat 'em."

--President-Select George W. Bush--

>Jews are not traditionally considered white.

I'm going to have to go with Tinky on this. "Traditional" is vague and subjective, but even without that I think I'd safely say that by now Jews are considered white. Especially if you attempt to define what "white" is. Sometimes the only real way you can define it is "who's empowered." Minorities aren't, but then again some (like Jews, fashion models, politicians) are. So really you're on thin ice.

Alek
________________________________
"Say some shit that suprise me...
My face don't change."

My point is that their status as white is unstable at best.

JMello

"Those of us who spent time in the agricultural sector and in the heartland, we understand how unfair the death penalty is - the death tax is."

"Si, I'm very concerned about the amount of acreage in cultivation for the growth of cocoa leaves."

"...it's about past 7 here, so we're actually in different timelines."

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but my predecessors, as well. And that's why I made the decision."

"I'm about to name my brother the ambassador to Chad."

"They don't seem to be flocking in right now, but it is dove season in Texas. I'm a hunter and if I decide to shoot some dove, I'll shoot 'em and eat 'em."

--President-Select George W. Bush--

________________________________
"Say some shit that suprise me...
My face don't change."

the klan don't like catholics either. does that mean catholics aren't white?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E
TinkyWinky - marley marl
Vivrant - Pete Rock
bfnh - Premier
guinness - Jay Dee
Mosaic - Hi Tek
Illwill - Hank Shocklee
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Buckwild
Raina - Jazzy Joyce
phil - The Rza
nickelz45 - Diamond D
Donwill - Automator
honorable mention:
fire - fire

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

>Just clarifying the original poster's comments.
>
>By the way, why do so
>many, like yourself, try to
>shut down the conversation when
>people call attention to this
>fact. Could it be
>the same reason men get
>dismiss the pay difference between
>men and women??? Fear.

Youz funny. I'm not trying to shut down the conversation. First, the original post wasn't about who is running the entertainment industry. It was about boycotting Sony because, once again, a black story is being told by whites. That subject alone is worthy of hours and hours of discussion -- regardless of how you define "whites."

You introduced the idea of Jews running the industry, as if that makes a difference in the context of the original discussion. I've asked you to clarify why you did that, not in an attempt to shut down the conversation but to get you to expand it. If I didn't want to that discussion to continue, I would have simply ignored it. (And that's a lesson many people need to learn here.)

So once again, I'm asking you to explain why the difference between Jews and other whites is significant within the context of who is running the entertainment industry and who is telling the stories of black people, and we can discuss that as long as you want.

Are you saying blacks would be better represented in the industry if, say, Italians were in charge? Or maybe Czechs? The Japanese?

Let's try an analogy. If you lose a race, what significant difference is it if you lose to a Greek guy or to an Israeli?

Or, look at it in another way. If you're getting your ass kicked, does it really matter if the person with his foot in your ass believes Jesus was the Son of God or not?

You have presented nothing for me to fear, so we can discuss this as long as you want. I just want to understand your position because, really, you haven't presented anything by way of discussion. You came in like an ass, and the accuse me and others of ignoring your important issue.

Like I said, I'll concede that Jews are in most of the positions of power in the entertainment industry. You tell me what the significance is in that, and we'll go from there.

RED
Taking applications for new sigs.

>All
>one has to do is
>read the credits on albums
>and films to appreciate the
>saturation.

Yes.

>It bothers me as much
>as the over-representation of African-Americans
>in the service industry.

Oh please.

Alek

________________________________
"Say some shit that suprise me...
My face don't change."

>>All
>>one has to do is
>>read the credits on albums
>>and films to appreciate the
>>saturation.
>
>Yes.
>
>>It bothers me as much
>>as the over-representation of African-Americans
>>in the service industry.
>
>Oh please.
>

Oh please what? Anytime one ethnic or racial group is over represented in a particular segment of society that means there is something wrong with society. Especially if we bill ourselves as a colorblind and meritocratic nation.

JMello

"Those of us who spent time in the agricultural sector and in the heartland, we understand how unfair the death penalty is - the death tax is."

"Si, I'm very concerned about the amount of acreage in cultivation for the growth of cocoa leaves."

"...it's about past 7 here, so we're actually in different timelines."

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but my predecessors, as well. And that's why I made the decision."

"I'm about to name my brother the ambassador to Chad."

"They don't seem to be flocking in right now, but it is dove season in Texas. I'm a hunter and if I decide to shoot some dove, I'll shoot 'em and eat 'em."

--President-Select George W. Bush--

>>>It bothers me as much
>>>as the over-representation of African-Americans
>>>in the service industry.

>>Oh please.

>Oh please what? Anytime one
>ethnic or racial group is
>over represented in a particular
>segment of society that means
>there is something wrong with
>society.

Agreed. But you compared ONE circumstance -- the endemic disempowerment of African-Americans and their relegation to low-wage/low-stability service sector jobs -- to another FAR less definite one. The role that people of Jewish faith play in the entertainment industry is exactly the same as the role that ANY empowered wealthy white executive plays: dominance and direction. In both cases it's the power imbalance that leads to your "over-representation," but one is extremely serious and consequential, while the other is ambiguous and looks in a LIMITED way at the problem.

If you had said, "The over-representation of rich white males in the entertainment industry bothers me as much as the...", I would have been right with you.

Alek



________________________________
"Say some shit that suprise me...
My face don't change."

>If you had said, "The over-representation
>of rich white males in
>the entertainment industry bothers me
>as much as the...", I
>would have been right with
>you.

So you just want to deny the Jewish influence?


JMello

"Those of us who spent time in the agricultural sector and in the heartland, we understand how unfair the death penalty is - the death tax is."

"Si, I'm very concerned about the amount of acreage in cultivation for the growth of cocoa leaves."

"...it's about past 7 here, so we're actually in different timelines."

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but my predecessors, as well. And that's why I made the decision."

"I'm about to name my brother the ambassador to Chad."

"They don't seem to be flocking in right now, but it is dove season in Texas. I'm a hunter and if I decide to shoot some dove, I'll shoot 'em and eat 'em."

--President-Select George W. Bush--

You accused me of trying to cut off the discussion, yet you don't seem to want to answer my question. You seem to have plenty of time, though, to dissect the difference between whites and Jews. So, in the interest of keeping the dialogue going, and tying it back to the subject of the original post (which you claim only to have wanted to clarify)...

>>If you had said, "The over-representation
>>of rich white males in
>>the entertainment industry bothers me
>>as much as the...", I
>>would have been right with
>>you.
>
>So you just want to deny
>the Jewish influence?

Please explain, in your opinion, why it is an important distinction that there are Jews running the entertainment industry, as opposed to "whites."

I don't think anyone here has denied the Jewish influence you speak of. You guys are going back and forth as to whether Jews are white or European or whatever. But let's you and I start with the premise that Jews are different from whites. Okay?

Now, what is it about Jewish influence in the movie industry that creates a problem for black people different from a situation that would exist is mere white people ran the industry? How would our plight be different?

You seem to have something you want to say. Spit it out.

RED
Taking applications for new sigs.

>You accused me of trying to
>cut off the discussion, yet
>you don't seem to want
>to answer my question. You
>seem to have plenty of
>time, though, to dissect the
>difference between whites and Jews.
>So, in the interest of
>keeping the dialogue going, and
>tying it back to the
>subject of the original post
>(which you claim only to
>have wanted to clarify)...
>
>>>If you had said, "The over-representation
>>>of rich white males in
>>>the entertainment industry bothers me
>>>as much as the...", I
>>>would have been right with
>>>you.
>>
>>So you just want to deny
>>the Jewish influence?
>
>Please explain, in your opinion, why
>it is an important distinction
>that there are Jews running
>the entertainment industry, as opposed
>to "whites."
>
>I don't think anyone here has
>denied the Jewish influence you
>speak of. You guys are
>going back and forth as
>to whether Jews are white
>or European or whatever. But
>let's you and I start
>with the premise that Jews
>are different from whites. Okay?
>
>
>Now, what is it about Jewish
>influence in the movie industry
>that creates a problem for
>black people different from a
>situation that would exist is
>mere white people ran the
>industry? How would our plight
>be different?
>
>You seem to have something you
>want to say. Spit it
>out.

I just don't want to see general white society blamed for the crap that is Hollywood. It is oversimplifying to just label it as white influenced and dismiss the Jewish component. It is also troubling to me to see the attitude most Jews in power have. Namely, claiming that they are an oppressed group, when in fact they control more wealth than most ethnic groups traditionally classified as white. Along with their domination in media comes the gagging of any public discussion on their influence, Palestinian rights and other controversial topics associated with Jews. I have to hand it to them though, what better way is there for a miniscule minority to gain such exhaustive power?

JMello

"Those of us who spent time in the agricultural sector and in the heartland, we understand how unfair the death penalty is - the death tax is."

"Si, I'm very concerned about the amount of acreage in cultivation for the growth of cocoa leaves."

"...it's about past 7 here, so we're actually in different timelines."

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but my predecessors, as well. And that's why I made the decision."

"I'm about to name my brother the ambassador to Chad."

"They don't seem to be flocking in right now, but it is dove season in Texas. I'm a hunter and if I decide to shoot some dove, I'll shoot 'em and eat 'em."

--President-Select George W. Bush--

But I actually agree with you, up to a point. I've been troubled before by the apparent double-standard that allows Jewish people to cry oppression when, for the most part, they have overcome quite a lot and achieved so much that it's hard to look at them as an oppressed people.

Problem is, successful or not, in charge of the entertainment industry or not, Jewish people still face a lot of persecution and bigotry. The fact that they run some movie studios or whatever doesn't make that acceptable. So I don't begrudge them their success. Like you yourself said, what better way is there for a miniscule minority to gain such exhaustive power? Instead of hating them, I'd rather emulate them.

And, of course, not all Jews are sitting pretty. Not all of them are rich and in control, just like not all blacks are poor and struggling.

And yes, I'm also with you on the point of blame assessment. If blacks are in fact going to blame someone for our plight in the entertainment industry, it's better to point the finger directly instead of lumping everyone together.

My own personal view on that, however, is that I'd rather not blame anyone. As I've said in the other black-movie-themed post currently running, I think a large chunk of the responsibility falls on the blacks in the industry to do what is necessary to make a better climate for blacks and black-themed projects.

Whether that means writing better projects or only hiring black crews and creative staff, there's so much we can actually affect, regardless of who is running the studios.

With that in mind, and in regards to this Ali project, I understand and agree in principle with the concept of raising a ruckus when black stories get told with no black involvement. But I don't really agree that this is a "black story." Not because I don't think of Ali's life as a story of blacks in America. But because I believe there is a "white" side to the Ali story. he is a man who has touch the whole country, and the world, and if Michael Mann wants to tell teh story from his point of view, that's acceptable. So, I cannot support a boycott of Sony simply because of this project. But there's plenty of other reasons to boycott Sony and all the studios.

In any event, I don't believe the situation blacks face in the media is due SPECIFICALLY to Jewish influence. So while I appreciate the clarification, I think it's legitimate in this situation to lump all our adversaries into one category. While I recognize the difference between Jewish people and other "white" people, I don't see how that difference changes the situation blacks in the entertainment industry are faced with. Regardless of who it is in charge, it's not blacks. And that is what needs to be addressed.

RED
Taking applications for new sigs.

>>If you had said, "The over-representation
>>of rich white males in
>>the entertainment industry bothers me
>>as much as the...", I
>>would have been right with
>>you.

>So you just want to deny
>the Jewish influence?

No, man. Read the quote of mine you posted. What I'm trying to do is get at the actual source of this oppression. I don't believe it's to do with inherent aspects of Judaism.

Alek
________________________________
"Say some shit that suprise me...
My face don't change."

...since you talk so much about skirting the issue, why don't you come out with your opinion?

What is the "Jewish influence."

Is it greed? Need for control? Prejudice or racism? Paranoia?

Just be specific about what you think Jews (as a religious/ethnic group) have which makes them so oppressive in the entertainment industry.

Alek
________________________________
"Say some shit that suprise me...
My face don't change."

>Just be specific about what you
>think Jews (as a religious/ethnic
>group) have which makes them
>so oppressive in the entertainment
>industry.


I never said anything about oppression (check other posts). All I sought to do was clarify the first post. Of course, given the sensitivity of the topic, I expected virulent charges of anti-Semitism and closed-mindedness.

JMello

"Those of us who spent time in the agricultural sector and in the heartland, we understand how unfair the death penalty is - the death tax is."

"Si, I'm very concerned about the amount of acreage in cultivation for the growth of cocoa leaves."

"...it's about past 7 here, so we're actually in different timelines."

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but my predecessors, as well. And that's why I made the decision."

"I'm about to name my brother the ambassador to Chad."

"They don't seem to be flocking in right now, but it is dove season in Texas. I'm a hunter and if I decide to shoot some dove, I'll shoot 'em and eat 'em."

--President-Select George W. Bush--

>I never said anything about oppression
>(check other posts). All
>I sought to do was
>clarify the first post.

Here's two of your quotes from earlier in the discussion.

"The whole goal is to keep it in the closet, hence the charges of anti-semitism and name-changes."

"Along with their domination in media comes the gagging of any public discussion on their influence, Palestinian rights and other controversial topics associated with Jews."

So if you never said anything about oppression, control, greed, paranoia, what is "the whole goal" referencing? How about your statement that Jews "gag public discussion of controversial topics..." It's just not clear to me what the jewish AGENDA you're trying to outline here is. Please clear it up.


>Of
>course, given the sensitivity of
>the topic, I expected virulent
>charges of anti-Semitism and closed-mindedness.

Give people a little more credit. I can't speak for other people, but I certainly didn't accuse you of that. I think it might be worth considering what your "expectations" might say about your own feelings towards Jews, but I'm not in any kind of position to judge someone over the internet.

- If all you meant to do was point out a detail overlooked by the original poster, fine. It sounds to me like you had more in mind, and that your responses since then have harbored some pretty serious resentment. What I asked you (and am asking you again), is WHAT you resent about Jewish control over the entertainment industry (other than the fact that over-representation usually implies inequality).

Alek
________________________________
"Say some shit that suprise me...
My face don't change."

I have it made then . . .

waitaminute . . . Half-Italian . . . DAMNIT!!!



Just thought I'd throw that in there . . .

Giving you true calcio since 1986

Marinera . . . It's a damn tasty sauce y'all . . .

AIM: Marinera81
MAIL: jonah_b27@hotmail.com

Check out http://www.greatergood.com Help end world hunger, save the rainforest, help stop AIDS in Africa, help children survive in 3rd world countries, stop breast cancer, and give treatment to landmine victims in less than a minute a day! FOR FREE! NO FORMS TO FILL OUT AND NO STRINGS! REALLY!!!

I think my main problem with this clarification is not that you're wrong, because obviously you aren't, but that you *do* seem to be implying some racially motivated agenda among the Jewish people.

First off, I don't perceive that.
Second, I think it's consumers who destroy equality/representation in the arts, not movie executives.

Alek
________________________________
"Say some shit that suprise me...
My face don't change."

My home girl just called Amy Pascal's office. Her assistant said they no nothing about the hiring process for this movie. Will's company Overbrook Entertainment is in charge of hiring. The assistant also said they (Sony Pictures) hope the rumor is not true.

Will Smith and Muhammed Ali themselves aren't putting it down, why will our phone calls make a difference. I'm sorry, but I was REAL disappointed when I saw Ali at the Republican Inauguration...Honestly, the company has its high-profile tokens and its going to be hard to shake them up because all they have to say is "Look at Willy Fetchit, he ain't sayin' nothin" and that's that.


************************************************************
"A man is free, or he is not. There can be no apprenticeship for freedom."
--Amiri Baraka

Jesus was Black ya'll...no joke.

"Oh no, here comes that sun again. That means another day, without you my friend. And it hurts to look into the mirror at myself, and it hurts even more to have to be with somebody else.
And it's so hard to do, and so easy to say,
But sometimes, sometimes, you just have to walk away."
--Ben Harper

The worst Okayplayer mistake my friend ever made? I went with three of my friends to the Saturday Oakland Okayplayer show back in November. Anyway, we got separated into groups of two during the show, and after the show, we couldn't find each other, and after spending a weekend together, me and my sistas were a little testy anyway. Not finding each other directly after the show further aggravated the situation. So anyway, one of my friends was hella pissed, and decided to walk in front of all of us. On the way back to the car, she pushed through a group of brothas who were chillin' by the side of the theater, hella mad-doggin' folks, and one of the dudes (shorter, light-skinded) in an effort to cheer her up said, "Hey, smile!" She turned around and gave this dude the ugliest, most sarcastic smile in the world, and then kept walking. After walking in utter silence for a block, one of my other friends who watched the exchange said, "Why did you dis Scratch like that?"

>Jesus was Black ya'll...no joke.

Of course he was. That's why he is properly known as Yah Shua the messiah

ma
meudontno@hotmail.com
formerly known as DONTE (2001-2001)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"my mama said/a lady ain't what she wears/but what she knows"~~India Arie

KizzMyBlakAzz: you've made yourself a shell
KizzMyBlakAzz: i know you're soft and gooey on the inside
LHoney17: I know I am....never said I wasn't
LHoney17: but that doesn't mean I get stepped on or that I'm not strong
KizzMyBlakAzz: Gooey
LHoney17: lol
KizzMyBlakAzz: Caramel
KizzMyBlakAzz: Center
LHoney17: lol....well that's a nice way to think of it
KizzMyBlakAzz: with like a hard choclate shell
LHoney17: think I'll put that in a personal ad
KizzMyBlakAzz: You're a Rollo
LHoney17: lmao
KizzMyBlakAzz: lmao

"Quentin's on his way/Quinton's on his way/Quentin's on his way/with another J/and it's ok!!/(we're gonna get high!!)" ~~Pharcyde

After looking at this thread, along with others, for you guys to claim to be striving for equality you have got to be some of the most racist fuggas I've ever seen in my life.

White bashing, Jew bashing.....really it makes no difference to you guys. As long as you have some group to bash, right?

who ever said we wanted equality? we're not all a bunch of whiny little bleeding hearts like you ignorant, generalizing conservatives would like to think.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E
TinkyWinky - marley marl
Vivrant - Pete Rock
bfnh - Premier
guinness - Jay Dee
Mosaic - Hi Tek
Illwill - Hank Shocklee
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Buckwild
Raina - Jazzy Joyce
phil - The Rza
nickelz45 - Diamond D
Donwill - Automator
honorable mention:
fire - fire

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

>who ever said we wanted equality?

I did.

> we're not all a
>bunch of whiny little bleeding
>hearts

I am. :-)

Alek

________________________________
"Say some shit that suprise me...
My face don't change."

are a little BITCH!!!!! lol, go read some toni morrison, you wart on a male whore's genitals.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E
TinkyWinky - marley marl
Vivrant - Pete Rock
bfnh - Premier
guinness - Jay Dee
Mosaic - Hi Tek
Illwill - Hank Shocklee
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Buckwild
Raina - Jazzy Joyce
phil - The Rza
nickelz45 - Diamond D
Donwill - Automator
honorable mention:
fire - fire

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

...if you want to bring it, let's just cut the shit and bring it now. *kissing own muscles* Hoo-ahhh!

>go read some toni morrison,

Oh we're back on that. Tell Toni I'd rather read a fat guy's tattoo.

Alek
________________________________
"Say some shit that suprise me...
My face don't change."

>Oh we're back on that.
>Tell Toni I'd rather read
>a fat guy's tattoo.

Damn, something we agree on. It's a friggin miracle

you think that because you're ignorant. he thinks that because he's educated. that's where the difference lies.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E
TinkyWinky - marley marl
Vivrant - Pete Rock
bfnh - Premier
guinness - Jay Dee
Mosaic - Hi Tek
Illwill - Hank Shocklee
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Buckwild
Raina - Jazzy Joyce
phil - The Rza
nickelz45 - Diamond D
Donwill - Automator
honorable mention:
fire - fire

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

>you think that because you're ignorant.
> he thinks that because
>he's educated. that's where
>the difference lies.

I was laughing my ass off.

Alek
________________________________
"Say some shit that suprise me...
My face don't change."

that you? :)

"Where is the NHK TV Camera? Hello Tokyo!" -- Piston Honda

"Its like a modern day slave trade but only it's mase from de la... and not kunta kinte.. and he's getting paid for it... and it's not picking cotton.. hell.. it's not like a modern day slave trade at all." -- Okayplayer Brainchild in regards to Maseo's EBay DJ lessons.

>Black filmmakers that are on the
>project, have little to no
>input on the production.

this statement seems kind of hokey...they're makin the film but someone's tellin them to "HUSH" & they are???...it seems as tho the burden of activism is somewhat bein lifted off their shoulders & bein placed upon ours as the viewin audience


Once
>again we have a case
>of white people telling our
>stories, defining our people, with
>little or no input from
>us.

i take issue w/this...only because ali has been boxin for 50 years & aside frum the films he starred in himself...i don't recall any blk ppl hankerin for the opportunity to make his film...male or female...indie or big studio...ali is an icon...he's like "public property" almost


The writer, producers, director,
>hairstylist, make-up artist, and wardrobe
>people are all WHITE!!!

excuse me again...the white person was never supposed to have written the story because he was white???...let's say i wrote it as a blk woman...but i know nothin of boxin/the war/the nation of islam/bein a man...do i become more "qualified"???

producers: THE MAJORITY of films are produced by white ppl...jewish ppl at that...spike lee barely found blk ppl to help him produce his movie about malcolm x...producer = $$$ = green

make-up/wardrobe: i just hope they have decent lookin afro wigs & NO DAMNED ORANGE LIPSTICK ON BLK WOMEN
Many

>of the white people that
>hold these key positions,are insensitive,
>apathetic, white folks that know
>little and care less about
>the Black experience, let alone
>Mohammad Ali.

that explains most employers in re: to their employees...meanin ur boss in re: to U...are u quittin ur job or buildin skills to move on???


In my opinion,
>this is an outrage! Competent,
>highly qualified Black people have
>been denied employment, in favor
>of hiring non-Blacks who's skills
>are inadequate as they apply
>to this production.

if this is the case this should also be taken up w/the EEOC/ACLU & the unions that are to represent these ppl

Devious, underhanded,
>blatantly exclusionary tactics are being
>used to keep Black people
>off this production!

more details please

>Several people from the production where
>recently in Chicago on a
>location scout at Elijah Mohammad's
>old house. Before the scout,
>they realized that there were
>no Black people in their
>group. They contacted a local
>janitor, and a PA (gopher)
>and asked them to ride
>with them and sit in
>on meetings with them for
>the day in an effort
>to give the impression to
>the Nation of Islam officialsthat
>they were dealing with a
>diverse group. The two hired
>guns, were promised jobs when
>they begin shooting in Chicago.
>Please, unite with Black filmmaker's
>in their effort to combat
>this unjust situation!! Call The
>Production office, and let them
>know that this type of
>blatant discrimination will NOT be
>tolerated. Voice your concerns to:
>
>
>Michael Mann (Producer, Director, Writer); 310-207-7378,
>F:310-207-3426

okay...michael man is producin/directin AND writin this film???...this is the michael mann show yo



>John Cally: (CEO, Sony Pictures); 310-244-7777,
>F: 310-244-4070
>
>Amy Pascal(Chairman Columbia Pictures); 310-244-6300, F:
>310-244-6161

i can call & inquire as to the alleged practices...otherwise...what shall i say???


u read what i said & u STILL want more??!!??