...the whole point of this discussion (I thought) was supposed to be a discussion about the mistreatment of women, period. It is unfortunate that some men use religious beliefs and society's standards to justify the subjugation and abuse of women. This is a big part of the problem.

It doesn't matter the method men use or to what extent the women are abused. What matters is that many men justify the mistreatment of women using religion or history or conditioning. Actually, it is all about conditioning. Men can be violent, disrespectful, oppressive towards women? That's ok? No, never, not in any circumstance or geographic location!

I once had a friend who was trying to stay in school and raise a baby she had by an older man. She was from South America and had no family in the US. She thought the older man would support her and eventually the baby she had. When she decided to keep going to college her boyfriend started beating her. One day he beat her and hit the baby. She ran for her life and the only person she could turn to was me. She came to me battered and without her baby. All she wanted was to get her baby back.

We went to the nearest police precint. For an nearly hour, I witnessed the most degrading line of questioning from the police women and men on duty: "What did you do to provoke your boyfiend?", "Why did he hit you?", "Why didn't you take the baby with you?", "If he didn't let you take the baby why didn't you stay and call the police?", and on and on.

The point of this story is my friend had no rights. She was in the country legally and she was an American citizen. Her boyfriend had the right to abuse her and take her baby. Not!

Come on people!


"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix"

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"