(goodasspost!)

thanks, first of all for bringing this up. i haven't read the book (and don't foresee a stretch in the near future to do so...), but i am somewhat familiar w/ the aims and devices of cointelpro.

>Okay peeps, let's do this.
>-Do you think that the authors
>method was used to organize
>and limit the FBI documents
>was effective? or should they
>have focused on other movements?

>-Did the authors do a good
>job of providing background information?
> Were the groups and
>each movement placed in historical,
>political, and social context?

excellent questions -- great jumping off point for discussion, hopefully someone who's read the books can add on (in the meantime, we'll keep pushing this up until it catches on like a 'natural hair' post)

>Puerto Rican Independence Movement, the Cointelpro
>became formal when the MPIPR
>and PSP unified. Also,
>to prevent the unification of
>Black folks and Ricans a
>phony document was generated that
>claimed that most Ricans were
>not of African descent.

that's critical. a lot of times (it seems) we view c/pro as a just-us proposition, when it was actually designed to prevent any and everybody from linking their struggles.

>When the Organization of Afro-American Unity
>and SWP attempted to form
>an alliance it was foiled
>by concentraiting on the atheism
>of SWP.

religion is a powerful force in both directions. it has the potential to provide motivation and energy, or retard progress. notice how 'things fall apart' on the boards when the topic of religion comes up. as i've mentioned elsewhere, heads who come from the same general bag all of a sudden notice vast differences. how many posts get hijacked or sidetracked from the original topics because we enter into arguments based on faith (or respect for another persons having or not having it).

>-What role do you think the
>federal government currently plays in
>the demise of various Movements?
>
>
>-What organizations do you think are
>currently on the FBI list
>and what actions have they
>taken to neutralize them?
>
>
>Some general thoughts that I have
>after reading this book for
>the second time is that:
>
>a. I think that Dyson's book
>on Martin Luther King is
>in a way in direct
>response to this book.

interesting.

>I think this b/c in
>Cointelpro papers the authors tried
>to keep the 'legacy and
>image' of MLK alive by
>saying that the tapes and
>documents about his sexual acts
>were lies and all a
>scan. Dyson's used numerous
>FBI documents/tapes/video in his book.
> So do you think
>it was all FBI foul
>play and MLK wasn't a
>'sex machine/ho'? or does who
>is was fucking take away
>from the struggle and his
>legacy?

don't know if he was. i'm prolly not qualified to quantify 'hoe-ness'. if he was on some extracurricular? it seems like that was the case since we hear it from so many sources, but i can't call it.


I don't think
>say, like I've said before
>King was hu(man) just like
>the rest of us and
>if he was a 'ho'
>so what. I am
>able to seperate the man
>from his mission.

no doubt.

>b. Cointelpro was structured around the
>same premise as Willie Lynch's
>'divide and conquer'.

say word.

>
>c. We seriously need to
>address this 'leaders' issue.
>Organizations can not exist if
>there is only one (wo)man
>defining and running the movement.
> When Garvey died the
>UNIA was shot to hell.
> It should have been
>a priority of Garvey to
>have leadership in the making.
> With all orgs. we
>must stop putting 'all our
>all' in one person.

i've been saying this for a long time to no one in particular. this charismatic leadership bag will take us nowhere. you take out the main man or woman, and you get left w/ a bunch of aimless ex-disciples who'll vent some energy, and perhaps succeed in finishing the last tasks the leader had outlined before evaporating.

>There has to be more
>than one person in the
>know.
>d.

rallying 'round the king is played out like the feudal system. that's com sense. if you're enemy is charging toward you led by a cat in a crown, who you aimin the crossbow at?

When I attended the
>Black Radical Congress my greatest
>frustration was the debate over
>ideologies. I think that
>it is imp. to find
>the common ground and tackle
>problems from the common ground.
> This is reflected in
>the FBI tactics of weakening
>Movements by focusing on the
>differnces. They know as
>long as they can keep
>up the debate over varying
>ideologies then there will be
>dissention among oppressed folks.
>e.

this board is a fertile ground for finding those type of techniques to build consensus among differing factions. even my man Expertise be on some ish i can get with some days (:-)). unless folks are just outright evil, there should be common ground to be found.

they do it in business, its called coopetition (combination of cooperation and competition -- i love corporate double-speak). you can form alliances with companies that you compete with in different markets. i wouldn't advocate black folk, progressives, or whoever to be as 'snaky' as these biz deals can get, but we can learn from the ground rules. the keys are to ensure that the alliance gets you closer to a strategic goal than you'd be able to get on your own (or quicker, or for less $$$), and that the partnership doesn't jeopardize your overall plan.

from an activist perspective, you can take the first condition as it is and alter the second to be "as long as the partnership does not undercut your core values/beliefs, or serve to strengthen a group which is fundamentally opposed to your existence".

as such, you could probably get down with libertarians on a search and seizure issue, but you wouldn't get down with, say, the NRA, under any condition or pretense. realpolitik.



Also, it is important
>to work with grassroots and
>local organizations in an attempt
>to prevent the success of
> neutralizing local leaders before
>they are able to consolidate
>with others.
>f. The book also reinforced
>the point, that you should
>not believe everything you hear,
>see, or read.

we should start a thread with a primer on critical analysis. how to break down and disect the news, etc.

i gotta bounce. dope post. it will get some responses. trust.

peace & blessings,

x.