more so utamaroho, than solarus. though i attempted to answer your (solarus) questions from the "haram music" thread, since ppl be insisting and stuff.

bismillah


>after listening/observing to the board for
>a few weeks now, just
>to see how things are
>without my "antagonistic" perspective, I
>must say that some of
>the statements you make everyday
>are very much like those
>of the christians i meet
>everyday here in the bible-belt.
>and i'm sure you met
>them too, thus you should
>understand where i'm coming from
>with this:
>
>1)you made this statement here-
>
>i don't care if you from
>africa or shmafrica, arabia or
>asia......no HUMAN BEINGS CANNOT COME
>UP W/ ANYTHING PERFECT, B/C
>THEY AINT PERFECT.
>
>NOT YOUR ANCESTORS, NOT MY ANCESTORS,
>NOT HIS, NOT HERS, NOBODY!!!!
>
>name one thing that HUMANS-AFRICAN OR
>OTHERWISE- HAVE CREATED THAT IS
>PERFECT.
>
>which sounds very much like "no
>matter whether you're black or
>white, rich or poor, JESUS
>is the way to salvation".
>how much different is your
>universalized statement above?

bismillah

ok. lets see how "universalized" my statement was and how "exactly" i sound like a christian......

>i don't care if you from
>africa or shmafrica, arabia or
>asia......no HUMAN BEINGS CANNOT COME
>UP W/ ANYTHING PERFECT, B/C
>THEY AINT PERFECT.
>
>NOT YOUR ANCESTORS, NOT MY ANCESTORS,
>NOT HIS, NOT HERS, NOBODY!!!!
>
>name one thing that HUMANS-AFRICAN OR
>OTHERWISE- HAVE CREATED THAT IS
>PERFECT.

the statement i made IS UNIVERSAL as you have claimed. how and why would it NOT BE, if i said "NO HUMAN BEINGS" and "NOBODY"? it was meant to be universal. and? i have said, am saying, and will say "universal" statements, just like utamaroho has: with those "if negroes dont get back to practicing the ways of our ancestors, they will never find themselves and will always be lost. they will always be westernized, the "system" will always oppress the african who has no knowledge of himself, etc, etc...."-type statements.
universal or generalized: however you want to call it, its all the same, and you are guilty of it too. if you wanna put it this way, you sound like a christian too. we aal doit.
so whats the "moot" point that you are trying to make?

next....


>2)
>you will submit too. think not.
>
>how about this......when the angel of
>death comes to take your
>soul, be rebellious and dont
>give it to him, if
>you can. but you cant
>b/c NOBODY can avoid or
>avert DEATH. and ppl will
>submit, willingly or unwillingly-its all
>up to them.
>
>this sounds suspiciously to the "fear
>the great god in the
>sky" argument by christians who
>have been defeated in their
>arguments and have to rely
>on scare tactics or should
>i say "unproveable without direct
>experience/assimilation" into the belief system.

no it doesnt, but if you really want it to, then...ok. it sounds "suspiciously" the same. but it really doesnt. why? b/c im not trying to instill fear into anyone by making that statement. AH HA!!!! i just realized where you might have came up with that "conclusion" from.
when i made the statement about "the angel of death". man, you are reading wayyyy toooo much into my words, for real. lets look at my statement again and see how you confused yourself:

>how about this......when the angel of
>death comes to take your
>soul, be rebellious and dont
>give it to him, if
>you can. but you cant
>b/c NOBODY can avoid or
>avert DEATH.

once again, this is all i said. i didnt say "when the angel of death comes, and you havent accepted islam you will goto hell" or "the angel of death is gonna....GETCHA!!!"
what i did say, or rather the meaning implied in "simplistic" terms and words is: everybody will "submit" to one thing or another. you, me, the best doctor in the world, cannot avert death.
solarus has already stated in his "african conciousness" thread that: "Within the spiritual system of Ifa there is the firmly held belief that there is one Supreme Essence, generally referred to as God, that controls THE VERY DESTINY of the unniverse and the things therein. There is no reality higher than Olodumare and it is to this Essence that WE MUST SUBMIT OUR BEINGS; for it is Olodumare that LAYS OUT THE DESTINY(ayanmo) OF ALL HUMAN BEINGS."
eventhough by all means "not conclusive", what he posted that he obviously has no problem w/ (and you dont either), IS IN COMPLETE AND TOTAL COHESION AND AGREEMENT with what i said. SUMBISSION!!!
so whats the problem? if any.

NEXT.....



>3)please don't dodge solarus's questions, here
>they are to remind you:

of course you know, i wasnt "dodging" them. i just answer q's as a see fit to, and in no particular order.

>For instance, you say Islam is
>"submission" and that the first
>creature has been practicing Islam
>since the beginning.

stop. hate to get technical and stuff (so why doit huh?) but, i didnt say "creature" i said "the first human". yeah, i know what you mean, but i dont like playing wordgames up in here. ppl have a tendency to play off ALMOST ANYTHING that i say.
and i saw something you posted b4 about adam and eve-them possibly not being the first human beings TO YOU and YOUR UNDERSTANDING-so i decided not to say "which" human being. im learning. slowly, but surely.

If this
>is the case then the
>people of KMT were practicing
>Islam and also Afrakans prior
>to the 7the century CE
>before Arabs spread "Islam?"

depends on EXACTLY WHO "YOU" are referring to. but, yes. there were ppl throughout time, b4 muhammad, that were muslims and practised islam. just not in its COMPLETE, PERFECTED, AND most importantly, FINALIZED WAY.

If
>not when, why and how
>did the deviation from "submission"
>or Islam manifest?

here is the "why and how" of the deviation from "submission" that manifested:

Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The idols of the people of Nooh (Noah) were known among the Arabs later on. Wadd belonged to (the tribe of) Kalb in Dawmat al-Jandal. Suwaa’ belonged to Hudhayl. Yaghooth belonged to Muraad, then to Bani Ghutayf in al-Jawf, near Sabaa’. Ya’ooq belonged to Hamadaan. Nasar belonged to Humayr of Aal Dhi’l-Kalaa’. These were names of righteous men from the people of Nooh. When they died, the Shaytaan inspired their people to set up idols in the places where they had used to sit, and to call those idols by their names. They did that but they did not worship them, but after those people died and knowledge had been forgotten, then they started to worship them. (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4636).

and ppl are STILL DOING IT TO THIS DAY. think about all those 1000s of saints that the catholics have. i used to have a silver "st. christopher protect us" pendant. i never rocked it. why? who da hell is st. christoper? i knew who christ was, but this guy was a unknown to me. and when i found out who he was, i STILL didnt rock it. i still got it. cant wait to melt it down and use it for something beneficial. (im not catholic or christian, so why would i wear it, right? in other words, no disrespect to those who revere him, but i got so what im gon do with it? give it away?)

>
>Were other peoples practicing Islam and
>then Allah decided to "further"
>Islam by bring the final
>prophet, Muhammad to reveal the
>final word?

yes, this is correct.

>
>Or did other peoples deviate from
>Islam, and then Allah decided
>to send Muhammad to correct
>the deviators from "submission?"

this is correct too. in the quran, Allah says: Of some apostles We have already told thee the story; of others We have not......4.164
10.47 "And for every nation there is a messenger."
35.24 "And there is not a people but a warner has gone among them."
17.15 Who receiveth guidance, receiveth it for his own benefit: who goeth astray doth so to his own loss: No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another: nor would We visit with Our Wrath until We had sent an apostle (to give warning).
17.16 When We decide to destroy a population, We (first) send a definite order to those among them who are given the good things of this life and yet transgress; so that the word is proved true against them: then (it is) We destroy them utterly.

and muhammad was the last of those to be sent, and he was sent for the entire world. its the muslims duty to reach those who he didnt reach, and "thats what im here for".


the original teachings of hamurabi, buddha, hindu, yoruba, etc....could have been islamic teachings, who knows?


>it's cool you consistently provide the
>islamic perspective, and i respect
>your efforts. your use of
>islamic scripture though to validate/prove
>islamic points is circular logic
>and in the case of
>showing your point, null and
>void. notice this: when talking
>about african ideals solarus and
>i point out the aspects
>of western culture that make
>aspiring towards afrikan thinking a
>better solution. giving only afrikan
>examples of "righteousness" won't work
>unless you show that the
>status quo is not "delivering".
>when you only push Islamic
>examples/proof, you fall into the
>realm of using dogma.

i have done this too. "questions for women" thread, for starters.

>*we won't even get into the
>straight up falsehoods right now...

good, b/c i got some unanswered questions myself (could care less if they have been purposely "avoided", i just still want an attempted answer for them.). either one of yall, it dont matter who.

1. what did kmt say about merneptah?
2. what is the ipuwer text?
3. those questions from post #16 on "ancient light from africa" thread.
4. can you name one thing that HUMANS-AFRICAN OR OTHERWISE- HAVE CREATED THAT IS PERFECT?

thats all i can think of now, but im sure there were many more. oh well, i shoulda wrote em down.

subhakallahumma wabihamdika ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta astaghfiruka wa attuubu ilaika