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Forum nameOkay Activist Archives
Topic subjectAre you sure???
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=22&topic_id=12617&mesg_id=12943
12943, Are you sure???
Posted by osoclasi, Fri Jun-15-01 05:08 AM

>
>here is the verse from surah
>25- The Criterion:
>59. He Who created the heavens
>and the earth and all
>that is between, in six
>days, and is firmly established
>on the Throne (of Authority):
>Allah Most Gracious: ask thou,
>then, about Him of any
>acquainted (with such things).
>
>and here are the verses from
>surah 41- Ha-Mim:
>9. Say: Is it that ye
>deny Him Who created the
>earth in two Days? And
>do ye join equals with
>Him? He is the Lord
>of (all) the Worlds.
>10. He set on the (earth),
>mountains standing firm, high above
>it, and bestowed blessings on
>the earth, and measure therein
>all things to give them
>nourishment in due proportion, in
>four Days, in accordance with
>(the needs of) those who
>seek (Sustenance).
>11. Moreover He comprehended in His
>design the sky, and it
>had been (as) smoke: He
>said to it and to
>the earth: "Come ye together,
>willingly or unwillingly." They said:
>"We do come (together), in
>willing obedience."
>12. So He completed them as
>seven firmaments in two Days,
>and He assigned to each
>heaven its duty and command.
>And We adorned the lower
>heaven with lights, and (provided
>it) with guard. Such is
>the Decree of (Him) the
>Exalted in Might, Full of
>Knowledge.
>
>
>ok. from reading the above verses,
>you will see that there
>is no contradiction.
>why?
>verse 9. says that the creation
>of earth WAS CREATED in
>two days. meaning COMPLETED.

Responce: So here are the first two days.

>verse 10. says that the earth
>WAS BEING CREATED. Allah says
>"He set on the (earth),
>mountains standing firm", and as
>such, HOW can the WHOLE
>EARTH be CREATED in ENTIRETY
>if He is "setting firm
>standing mountains" on it? that
>would mean it was INCOMPLETE
>at that time.

Responce: No, I disagree. Had the first period been four and the second two, the second could be included in the first since filling the earth is part of creating the earth. But it's not it says the earth was created in two the mountains and blessings in four.


>verse 10. also says that He
>CREATED and BLESSED the earth,
>and MEASURED its sustenence in
>FOUR DAYS. it doesnot say
>WHAT and WHICH He did
>in HOW MUCH time. so
>within those FOUR DAYS, the
>earth was completed in TWO.
>
Responce: No, but it does say the mountains and bestowed blessings and nourishment took four days. Seperated from the two days that he created the earth.

>
>4 DAYS (including the TWO of
>which the earth was CREATED
>IN )to "set on the
>(earth), mountains standing firm, high
>above it, and bestowed blessings
>on the earth, and measure
>therein all things to give
>them nourishment in due proportion.
>(41:10)"

Responce: THis would work if the first period were four days but the first period is two days seperated from the four.
>
>+
>
>
>
>
>>One more is Sura 21:76
>>Noah and his family are
>>save in the flood Sura
>>11: 42-43 reports that Noahs
>>sons drowned. Heres something for
>>you to wrestle with good
>>luck.
>
>The son of Nuh (Alaihis Salaam)
>
>
>There is a very significant issue
>to take note of at
>this point. At the time
>of the flood, Nuh (Alaihis
>Salaam) interceded on his son's
>behalf for his rescue but
>Allah prohibited him from doing
>so. The importance of this
>incident arises from the following
>verses of the Holy Quran:
>
>
>"Nuh (Aaihis Salaam) addressed his Lord
>and said: "O my Lord,
>indeed my son is of
>my family and your promise
>is true. You are the
>most just of all sovereigns."
>Allah replied: "O Nuh, he
>is not of your family.
>His deed is incorrect. Therefore
>do not ask me that
>of which you have no
>knowledge. I advise you, lest
>you become of the ignorant."
>
>
>He (Nuh Alaihis Salaam) said: "O
>my Lord, I seek refuge
>in you from that of
>which I have no knowledge.
>I will become of the
>losers if you do not
>forgive me and have mercy
>on me." It was said:
>"O Nuh, alight with peace
>from us and blessings upon
>you and those who are
>with you." (11:45-48)
>
>It can be deduced from these
>verses that Allah Ta'ala had
>promised Nuh (Alaihis Salaam) that
>he would save his family.
>It is for this reason
>that Nuh (Alaihis Salaam) made
>dua for his son. Allah
>Ta'ala reprimanded him from making
>such a dua. Nuh (Alaihis
>Salaam) admitted his fault and
>requested for forgiveness and mercy.
>He received an answer according
>to his wish.
>
>Now we have to establish on
>which promise did Nuh (Alaihis
>Salaam) make the request and
>was this promise fulfilled or
>not. What kind of error
>did Nuh (Alaihis Salaam) commit
>in understanding the promise and
>upon the reprimand of Allah,
>how did he comprehend the
>actual matter? One has to
>ponder over the following verse
>in order to answer these
>questions:
>
>"When our command came, and the
>oven gushed forth, We said:
>"Carry a pair of every
>living animal and your family
>onto the ark except those
>against whom the command has
>been issued. (And carry) those
>who have believed." Very few
>believed (in Allah) with him.
>(11:40)
>
>This verse indicates that Allah Ta'ala
>had informed Nuh (Alaihis salaam)
>that he should make his
>family embark the ark and
>that all of them were
>not going to be saved
>because Allah's punishment had already
>been decreed for some. Nuh
>(Alaihis salaam) had earlier lost
>hope in his wife embracing
>the faith because of her
>kufr beliefs and regarded her
>to be the touchstone of
>the above-mentioned verse. Due to
>the paternal love which he
>harboured for his son, he
>expected him to board the
>ship and embrace the faith
>after benefiting from the company
>of the believers. Therefore Nuh
>(Alaihis Salaam) made dua to
>Allah on behalf of his
>son, taking advantage of the
>words "your family" mentioned in
>the verse. Allah Ta'ala did
>not like the deduction of
>Nuh (Alaihis Salaam) by analogy
>without waiting for divine revelation.
>His son was a disbeliever
>and would remain in this
>condition. The promise of rescue
>was only for the believers.
>This request was thus not
>in keeping with the lofty
>rank of prophethood. Allah's address
>to Nuh (Alaihis Salaam) was
>in reality not a reproach
>but a call to witness
>the reality to which he
>responded, acknowledged his being human
>and sought forgiveness. Hence this
>request was neither a sin
>nor does it contradict the
>sinlessness (ismat) of the messengers.
>Therefore divine revelation has termed
>it ignorance rather than sin
>or disobedience.
>
>Nonetheless it became apparent to Nuh
>(Alaihis Salaam) that the promise
>of rescue was based on
>Iman and not family relations.
>Therefore he turned to his
>son in order to fulfil
>his task of dawah so
>that he could also be
>saved. Alas, the wretched son
>answered:
>
>"I will seek refuge on a
>mountain which will protect me
>from the water." (11:43)
>
>Upon hearing this, Nuh (Alaihis Salaam)
>said:
>
>"Today there is no protector from
>the command of Allah except
>the one whom He has
>mercy on." A wave intervened
>and he was drowned. (11:43)
>
>
>and this is what is meant
>in the surah 21:76 as
>well, as far as the
>"family" that was saved.
>
>so there are no contradictions in
>the qur'an.

Responce: But, explain this to me.The Qur'an solves the problem by saying that Allah used divine exclusion.But how does this happen in light of sura 37:77. Does'nt this show that it is impossible even for God that a biological son looses the property of being the seed of his father. " And made his "seed the survivors"(of the Flood) is still difficult to reconcile with Allah's answer in Sura 11:46.Also in sura 11:46 it is clear that Noah found some who believe his message and followed him. This can be found in in Sura 7:64. Those in the Ark are contrasted with those outside thie ark(those who rejected).So why are these people not saved as well. Also Noah calls out his son to embark the Ark. So he was not one "against whom the word has already gone forth". since then Noah would not have called him in disobidience to Allah's command. Noah had no knowlegde(until Allah's responce in 11:46), that he was not part of his family. . This inclusion-exclusion thing in complicated.Also this contridicts the Torah account completly where all of his family is saved. (eight people total).

But the way I've got a lot of contridictions in the Qur'an if your interested in trying to answer some of them just give me the word. I really don't worry to much about these things anymore because there always going to be more and more added the more and more you look. There are other more serious problems I have with the Qur'an, and Islam, and Mohammed. But if you want to talk about contriditions like I said I've got a lot of them.
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