>>so that tells me that jesus
>>WAS PREDESTINED TO DIE for
>>our sins, b/c God knew
>>AFORETIME that we WOULD SIN.
>
>Responce: Correct, he was predestined to
>die. Predestination only means pre(before)
>destined(it happens) so God knows
>what going to happend before
>if actually does. What you
>are arguing is was Christ
>fatalistically determined to die. Christ
>voluntarally laid down his life
>for our sake.

lets look at the definition of predestine:

Main Entry: pre·des·tine
Pronunciation: (")prE-'des-t&n
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French or Latin; Middle French predestiner, from Latin praedestinare, from prae- + destinare to determine -- more at DESTINE
Date: 14th century
: to destine, decree, determine, appoint, or settle beforehand; especially : PREDESTINATE 1

so in conclusion of the definition of predestine, it is determined by this reader (dont know about the rest of yall) that the meaning is not "before it happens".


>>and therefore, according to you, if
>>it WAS PREDESTINED, we really
>>dont have a choice. AND
>>as such, JESUS really DIDNT
>>HAVE A CHOICE, based on
>>the information THAT YOU SUPPLIED.
>
>Responce: Sure, the free will part
>come in whether or not
>we accept Christ offer of
>atonement of the cross. Christ
>was supposed to die before
>the creation of the world
>because he knew before hand
>what man would do once
>he had freedom.

if christ was SUPPOSED TO DIE b4 the creation of the world, why didnt he?
and i personally, would like, for my own satisfaction, to see the verses in the bible where you got that (statement above) and your answer from.


BTW, when i said "THE INFORMATION THAT YOU SUPPLIED", im not only referring to the info on this thread, but the info on the thread "al qadaa wal qadr" that YOU SUPPLIED about PREDESTINY AND FREE WILL.

in my thread, youre telling me that Allah is doing everything (b/c of predestination) and that we (muslims)dont really have free will.

on this thread, your telling me the God just knows (b/c of predestination) and that yall (christians) actually have free will.

beit in christianity or islam, the definition for PREDESTINATION and FREE WILL are THE SAME, they DONT CHANGE.
maybe the UNDERSTANDING, but NOT THE DEFINITION.


subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You). ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped except You). astaghfiruka (I seek Your forgiveness), wa attuubu ilaika (and I turn to You in Repentance).