Ok Ive been asked to summize my racial philosophies so that maybe a few people can learn or even consider ideology contrary to the current social policy of racial classification.

If anyone reads, understands, and shares this information- there's a good chance I will be placed under surveillance as a possible threat to "national" security- if i am not under those auspices already. So be it- being considered a threat has been a perpetual lifestyle for my people.

In any case- i shall proceed and continue to tell the truth in that it has relieved me of confused thinking thus far and offers the same relief to several of you (even those of you who are under the false impression that you are white- especially you).

As ive said many times - You are not White - please allow me to explain.


K


Im working on ways to tell this message more fludily and subversively so for this arena I will gather thoughts parlayed in other sections and edit them so that the information is concise. If any of you have views that coincide with these please help me out- as Im not trying to relay the world according to KoalaLove- Im only trying to show the true ways in which the world and its people work. If you disagree meet at the Lesson and we'll take it up (or GD if thats more appropriate).

Bottom line...

Race is a vicious lie that in its sheer existence undermines the dignity of humankind and thusly the will of God. It must be stopped.

K

This is what i sent to a "White" girl who apparently had the audacity to say the WORD in my girlfriend's presence... something to the effect of mentioning "nigger piling."

lets get to the basics and then ill explain how it brought her to making such inconsiderate statements.

--------

As youve gathered- this topic is old for me. I know there a few "white" people waiting to
pounce on my post and call me a biggot and all types of stuff- I assure you, thats nothing new to me either.

I dont feel like fighting about it anymore- thats new. The thing is- research the history of
your so-called race and you'll find nothing but a long list of inhumanities and indignities.
You'll find a large number of people basing their racial identity on things founded in some
of the most racially prejudiced doctrines available yet not even being aware of it. Youll find
people adhering to a racial classification when they dont even consider all those things done
for "White" people and against others, they claim to be remorseful for such acts but
nonetheless promote the same system (the White american system) that committed such
attrocities then and still persists to oppress people of color today nonetheless hoping that
they can still be redeemed from the racist injustices perpetrated by this society all the while
being major proponents for it.

What you wont find is one shred of correlation between your race and qualifiers like
nationality, religion, cultural traditions (at least not traditions that werent either stolen from
other cultures or involving mass slaughter and brutality). You wont find common features
among them- unless you broaden the sense of the word so much that anyone can apply;
Whites have big noses, little noses, hooked noses, pug noses, thick hair, thin hair, curly
hair etc etc- where's the commonality in that? You wont find culture in race- yet the White
American system has been trying since colonialist America to convince you that White is your culture.

The problem is- the homogeny that America persists to encourage you to volunteer to
comes at the cost of people's lives, dignity, freedom, ethinicty, culture and traditions, heritage, even their safety- it endangers all that for you as well.

Many take all this and say- Whatever Im White cuz i "look white" apparently thinking that
this classification is just a benign observation of your physical features. Well- quite
obviously you're not White you're more peach (and several other pigments as well) the term
White and earlier terms like Caucasian stem from prejudiced doctrine that designated
people of paler skin as more evolved than others- thats pretty much all there is too it- the
fact that you comply with such designations has several damaging implications.

If its a means of describing you physically its just plain worng.

If its a means of gathering and providing census and statistical information its pervasively
inaccruate and vague on behalf of calculating the hwite population- a population that is
actually French american, Russian American, Irish American, etc.

If its used in a system of Democracy it quite clearly undermines democracy itself as it poses a false majority for the sake of majority rule.

If its just how society classifies people and you feel compelled to comply then you are also
compelled to accept the racist demarcations that society has established for you. You cant
claim to be White yet cast off all of the origins of White people; those include the
barabarism and brutality and several attempts to lay dark skinned human kind to waste
(Hitler's regime is included as he practised the same beliefs).

I know most "whites" dont want to be represented by such a culture- but if you choose to be White then that IS your culture- You must realize that you
DO have a choice.

Without that doctrine that establishes the meaning and origin of the term white you have
literally nothing else to hold onto to designate yourself as a person of race. If you comply
with the stereotype as if there are no other legitimate means of classifying yourself (like
nationality, religion, or ethnicity) then that makes you a racist.

Let me digress; most people dont consider themselves racists cuz they presume that that
term designates people of extreme racial beliefs- FALSE - despite what media presents to
you (propoganda) the fact that you honor and believe race alone makes you a racist; it
doesnt necessarily mean you're a bad person or even that you're prejudiced but if you're
not happy with the implications of that label then you might want to check your assumed
classification as well.

Anyway the point is- As "white" people European americans previously found something in which to lock in their sense of social security. It was at one
point a very effective means of providing a social defense against the onslaught of foreign powers and influence- but
gradually it also became a means of justifying several attrocities; the slave trade was
endorsed by the church and the world at large due to the writings of Charles Darwin and
Charles Lyle who postulated that "scientifically" racial stratification was substantiated by
evidence of evolution throughout humankind- people of pale skin being the most evolved
of the species as such darker skin people can be summarily enslaved or shall we say
domesticated. Do you remember Natural selection- now check the full title...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679600701/qid=957368729/sr=1-20/104-5417643-8506840

- thats right- it says the preservation of "favored" races- they didnt teach you that part in school; they left that out to perpetuate a severely racist social
order.

Today "White" people generally find themselves confused about their lives- and their roles
in the global community. They typically consider themselves "liberal"- accepting race
doctrine but willing to subvert it for the sake of human good but not realizing that the
doctrine itself is false therefore persistently trying to include "Whiteness" into the fold of
social culture. The problem is "Whiteness" doesnt fit into the social culture it only exists to
consume and homogenize it- it must do so for its own subsistence or for the preservation of "favored" races- for the very sake of race classification
itself.

Worse than that several White people get shocked by the reality surrounding the White
race. After visiting the perpetual injustices committed by White people they either run like
the dickens to claim the nearest ethnic identity (even when they just dont fit), shudder to
themselves behind closed doors- fearing all people of color (I refer to this generally as the
White awareness of a reasonable and justified hostility to White people), or embrace it
wholly- and then again several more people are just oblivious. White people are in
desperate need of a solution to the problem of their racial identity- its tricky cuz most of
them think its Blacks that have the problem.

The solution is this- Find your history. As KRS said- YOU MUST LEARN. Talk to your
grandparents and families and realize the truth of your ethnicity. The good thing about
so-called White people is that in general their ethnic history is very much documented and
available; yet they settle for a racial classification that means and stands for absolutely
nothing (unless you're willing to count lynching). Be you French American, Brittish american, or anything else- find out and claim that (an option that
the US census doesnt offer you- dont leave your future blank right? make your future White!) if anything you should be proud and more than willing to
know your origins.

But how many of you will still prefer to consider your selves White? Is it easier that way? Easier for whom?



K

In my estimation this "White" girl was a willing but unaware subject to the homogeny of White America as are many White people. As such her own culture was that of a novelty- something only to be observed on holidays or among more traditional family members.

Following the trends of White America its easy to hold such thoughts and terms as "nigger" in the back of her mind cuz in her estimation it only comments on an objective characterization of who Black people are prescribed to be racially. This White girl has been aware ever sine she learned racial classification that the premise behind racial stratification is that Blacks are somehow inferior to Whites- they may be capable of achieving the same things if thy try hard, and its not nice to speak badly to or about them but nonetheless they are a people who are innately less capable than others.

now

we could be mad at her for making such presumptions but I think we know that this type of though is pervasive in our culture. I ask- why?

Its pervasiv because the ideology and social structure that encourages those thoughts stares us dead in the face and we refuse to look at it and call it by its name. The premise behindracial classification is implicitly demeaning of Blacks and other cultures. it is the same race philosphy that previously made such determinations as Caucasian, Mogoloid, Orintal, and Negroid classifications- but somehow the classifications of Whites still persists.

This classification shares the same racist etymology as Nigger- no wonder it falls off a white girl's lips so easily. And when she sys it- she cant understand what exactly she did wrong. the thing is she doesnt see it as a signifier of another person's culture- cuz her own signifier (White) does not bear that meaning for her.

As i told her - the solution is not to change your thoughts- it is to change your thinking.


K

>
>
>Let me digress; most people dont
>consider themselves racists cuz they
>presume that that
>term designates people of extreme racial
>beliefs- FALSE - despite what
>media presents to
>you (propoganda) the fact that you
>honor and believe race alone
>makes you a racist; it


I COMPLETELY agree with that comment. You see it on T.V., they equate racism with white supremacy groups like the KKK and Aryan Nation. To them, racism can only be overt. You have to be burning crosses or commiting hate crimes. They also portray racists as working or lower class ignorant people-what is considered "white trash." Racism knows no class, sex, or level of intelligence, but to think that it does makes many feel that they are not held accountable and they are redeemed from that.

>
>>
>Anyway the point is- As "white"
>people European americans previously found
>something in which to lock
>in their sense of social
>security. It was at one
>
>point a very effective means of
>providing a social defense against
>the onslaught of foreign powers
>and influence- but
>gradually it also became a means
>of justifying several attrocities; the
>slave trade was
>endorsed by the church and the
>world at large due to
>the writings of Charles Darwin
>and
>Charles Lyle who postulated that "scientifically"
>racial stratification was substantiated by
>
>evidence of evolution throughout humankind- people
>of pale skin being the
>most evolved
>of the species as such darker
>skin people can be summarily
>enslaved or shall we say
>
>domesticated. Do you remember Natural selection-
>now check the full title...



Yep, Koala, and they literally used anything they could to support their actions, including religious doctrine (the Bible).
>
>
>>
>
>
>
The solution is this- Find your
>history. As KRS said- YOU
>MUST LEARN. Talk to your
>
>grandparents and families and realize the
>truth of your ethnicity. The
>good thing about
>so-called White people is that in
>general their ethnic history is
>very much documented and
>available; yet they settle for a
>racial classification that means and
>stands for absolutely
>nothing (unless you're willing to count
>lynching). Be you French American,
>Brittish american, or anything else-
>find out and claim that
>(an option that
>the US census doesnt offer you-
>dont leave your future blank
>right? make your future White!)
>if anything you should be
>proud and more than willing
>to
>know your origins.
>

You know what, I never understood why they like to skip over the injustices that "so-called Whites" have committed against other races in history. How can a race go on for so long literally "romanticizing" their history? It's not as if it's a secret. Are they scared to face that fact??? And these injustices were not and are not committed just in this country, but all over the world. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but it's real.


Koala, this is an excellent post. You need to write a book about this.

i am a white man, and I do not appreciate the blancket statements that so-called oppressed people make. That all white people, or most white people do anything. That is to say that all black people or native american, or chinneese, whatever ethnic group does something. By making a blancket statement u r showing your ignorance.
people r people, love us or leave us. fix the problem, do not just recognize it, and complain.

one-love

This is reprinted from Dove's "Im not a Racist but..." Thread from GD- its actually a very good (but damn is it long) discussion... peep it here if youd like

http://www.okayplayer.com/dcforum/general2/6515.html

For the record Dove and I are good friends.

--------------------->


I know that got your attention but it wasnt just meant to shock its actually true.

White culture is founded in race and not much else and as such to comply to such a classification you either have to accept the premises of racial theory (as set forth initially by Darwin and other racists), be oblivious to those racial implications, or perpetually be confused as to how Whiteness can extend beyond racial culture without having any roots in actual ethnicity. Whites are either racists or they dont know they are racists.

The point is- "White" people say things like this- cuz they quite simply dont know any better. They are tricked by media and propoganda that would lead them to believe that racism is a societal extreme instead of the societal norm that it is. The system provides the propoganda as an escape route to keep people locked in fabricated racial roles- cuz it emboldens the "White" hold on majority in the democratic system. Its all bullshit though.

Your mother in law's statements were not racist- although extremely prejudiced. Jew is not a race it is an ethinicty and a religious belief. See thats how we get confused. We label any extremist attitude as racist and that clouds the actuality of what is racist philosophy and how it underlies most major policy in the American system. White people
are not ready for that- but it wont be too long before they have to get free themselves.

Whites are either racists or they dont know they are racists. Now before any of you "White" people hit that reply/quote button how bout you take a minute and consider the fact you're not "White" at all.


K

I asked bro. Koalalove (yeah he's a guy, don't ask me why he chose that name :-) ) to post this to see if it wouyld generate any dialog around these parts.

Consider this part 2 or "Stuff they don't teach in school"

Good looking Koala..

------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
Help BooDaah STAY the Moderator for the OkayActivism Board....

Fill Angiee's Mailbox full of requests for me (HAHA she'll LOOOOVE THAT!!!)

How's THAT for pandering HMMMM???

I used that name so peopel could get bugged out when a guy with a cute and cuddly name ripped the shit out of their post and signed it with Love- KoalaLove that is.

gotta keep em guessing

K

In sharing my views i have been blessed with additional information from several other people- here is a list of books they suggested

they called it

a reading list for Well intentioned "Whites"

I havent read any of them though and cant vouch for their quality. Read them if you want- but my only encouragement is that you be more aware of your
own cultural history and not that which has been imposed on you- most importantly understand that they are two very different things. If you need
confirmation of anti-racist views then these will probably suffice but id much rather we all affirm the positivity of culture and ethnicity rather than
focussing on invalidating racial classification. Realizing your cultural heritage will break down racial classifications well enough on its own.

k

ps- this post in its entirety is what i delivered upon the afforementioned "White Girl"- I havent heard from her since- i wonder if she's working on it or has resigned herself to remain white.

---------------------------------------->

The Wages of Whiteness : Race and the Making of the Working Class by David R. Roediger (Paperback - January 1999)

Making Whiteness : The Culture of Segregation in the South, 1890-1940 by Grace Elizabeth Hale (Paperback - June 1999)

Displacing Whiteness: Essays in Social and Cultural Criticism by Ruth Franken berg (Paperback - October 1997)

Playing in the Dark: Whiteness and the Literary Imagination by Toni Morrison (Paperback - August 1993)

The Possesive Investment in Whiteness: How White People profit From Identity Politics by George Lipsitz (paperback - June 1998)

White Lies: Race and the Myths of Whiteness by Maurice Berger (hardcover - 1999)

White Reign: Deploying Whiteness in America by Joe Kincheloe (paperback - March 2000)

White Women, Race Matters: The Social Construction of Whiteness by Ruth Frankenberg (paperback - November 1993)

Whiteness: A Critcal Reader by Mike Hill (paperback - August 1997)

Whiteness of a Different Color: European Immigrants and the Alchemy of Race by Matthew Frye Jacobson (paperback - September 1999)

Towards the Abolition of Whiteness: Essays on Race, Politics and Working Class History by David Roediger (paperback - 1994)

if you ever got that list. This is a good place for it. Funny, but I first thought that this board would be a good place for this discussion, but now I see that this board -- as much as we'd like it to be a place for political discussion -- is turning into a place to post about demonstrations and other pro-active "what-you-can-do-about-it" activities. I actually think that the other boards are more of a fertile ground for your thoughts, ironically, mainly because the people you end up engaging are not necessarily the types that would run to this board to be educated. This kind of education usually happens "by accident" -- that is, people don't expect to be schooled in how they're perpetrating a lie and then you come and hit em upside the head with this knowledge and its like "damn, where did that come from?!"

I didn't read through all you've said here, mainly because I've heard you argue this a dozen times of so, and also because I've been taking a break from the boards lately. I'm sure it breaks it down tho.

p.s. I'm still looking for where I put that article by James Baldwin: "On Being White and Other Lies." Have you had any luck finding it?

love and respect,
El Rey


"We live the now for the promise of the infinite." - Mos Def

http://www.mumia2000.org
http://www.mumia.org
http://www.mumia911.org

EFF AN OFFENSIVE QUOTE! MAY IS NEBBIE APPRECIATION MONTH:

"I done already took you off the topic and now you just fallin prey to what evea i say.....I be you govment now!!"

"I m raising a fuckin angelic being who is going to replenish this fuckin earths cuz in 2G all we fuckin do is talk.....im teachin my seed to turn his spirit inside out and spread beams of green light"

"fuck turning the other cheek menatlity.....i got an 75% accuracy shooting"

"save ya souls fuck all this elian goverment guilliani crap......they aint no control over the universe.....that shit has greater power.....time to align ourselves with the universe..."

"i am really cool as shit...and yes i would beat a person with a bag of rusty screw drivers."

I will remain in the trenches so to speak- and this area can serve as a retreat for those who want to understand.

I havent found the Baldwin article nor have I really looked- if i do i will post it here.

K

I told y'all Im gonna just keep archiving this stuff- Boodah says OkayActivist needs some meat so here's the beef.

The following are other conversations Ive had to discuss these issues. I will be leaving names out whenever possible- just understand that these are responses to the issues raised (in quotes).


---------->


"I think at this point it would be hard for most white people to embrace their ethnic heritage, so basically i see the solution as perhaps embracing
Americanism,"


Its crucial that you understand that Black and oppressed people throughout the world have tired of allowing "White" people comfort in the vein of embracing culture and heritage- at this point several cultures and heritages have been ruined in the name of "White" establishment and the idea that all of us should now abondon our heritage as "Whites" have and embrace "Americanism" is insulting, The problem with America is that it is a democracy built on the premise that "White" people are a majority- but when you acknowledge the truth
of ethnicity that majority is largely diminshed; why then should we trust in a system that will continue to promote a lie and hope that that same system will hold our cultural differences and integrity in esteem- especially when it never
has before.

I understand that you may want to be pragmatic about it but you must understand this from other points of view- how much longer do you expect oppressed people to allow for "White" comfort? Im only telling you the time is coming where we
will be beyond discussion on the matter and if you want to do anything now- youd best ease up the assumed identity that relates you to a pervasively greedy and inhumane community- cuz those people have got a lot of dues to pay. Our concern is no longer what would be hard for "white" people- cuz we've had it hard for a long period of time- we've had enough of it, whether "Whites" like it or not, whether they're ready to accept it or not.

I just hope you realize that you are NOT white- those who dont understand that will have a long way to fall.

Its funny you say Americanism- little do you know that that was the KKK's first slogan. 100% Americanism.

realize the truth and hang on to that. You are NOT White- dont bother explaining or embracing that you are. Dont hide behind a large majority of people who think they are- We will all be obligated to face the truth very soon.

K

I wasnt saying you said that the difficulty mirrors tht of Black experience but as a rebuttal to your statement that it would be hard for "white" people to change Im reminding you that Blacks have had it hard for far too long to be sympathetic over the matter of the incovenience of realizing and admitting the true ethnicity of "White" people. The fact is you're not White- the idea that it would be hard to think of yourself otherwise is irrelevant especially in the face of the fact that you ARE otherwise. You're welcome to think what you want,
but the truth is you're not White and the only history and culture you can base that label on is one of pervasive inhumanity and injustice- there's no redeeming that and the time will come when humankind holds so-called "Whites" responsible for their deeds. If you would like to volunteer for that responsibility so be it- but in doing so you're not just claiming a classification you're compounding the injustices the entire class system brings to the world.

The point that we're about to reach is not that point where race doesnt matter- its a point where the truth that YOU ARE NOT WHITE will no longer be an issue- cuz most White and Black will just accept that as fact- it may be an actualabel but there are dire consequences that come along with accepting much less believing it. Already people are convinced that there is some veracity to the
term- when the smallest amount of research will tell you otherwise. Im telling you that it is now crucial to discover your heritage cuz the homogenous American system is founded on the premise that you cast off that ethnicity and
that manifest ethnic destiny still proceeds- its not fair, its not right, it has always caused strife and conflict- and it will cause much much more.

If you're going to recognize the past then you MUST recognize that that label with which you and a supposed majority identifies is a blatant and prejudiced lie. Whiteness must be discussed and exposed in order to move anywhere- but the truth must also be told so that we may be free. Too many Whites face this truth but rather admit it or denounce it they shuffle along supposing what there is something to redeem of themselves through Whiteness. Its like they want to keep the privilege without the responsibility- well you cant separate them; and the responsibility of the privilege is realizing not just that others dont have that same privilege its understanding that the level of privilege the american system affords White people is still far more than what a citizen is deserving
cuz its built from the oppression of colored and immigrant peoples- its even built off of the sacrficial lamb of your own European heritage. You cant keep diminishing your own ethnicity and expect us to believe that you respect ours. You cant cast off being French, German, Irish, or Eupoean american and expect us to accept you as a 'White" person- thats not fair.

Look at the census- they're telling all peoples of color to identify themselves by ethnicity and nationality but when it comes to European ethnicity and nationality they resort to the race card and disregard the actuality of "white" heritage. Does that seem fair? They tell us to stand up and be counted and then trump up the count of so - called "White" people; thats attrocious.

K

Why does everybody think im frustrated- IM NOT- im very much at peace with the world. I just dont lik it when people conduct their lives under this fog
of how they think life should be as that warps the way hey think life is.

I thought the name koalalove would evoke a warm and fuzzy characterization. Its all good- the truth doesnt hurt or furstrate that is your determination to believe lies. Im sharing my understanding with you , friend, whether you believe or accept, or understand me or my views is beyond me. But Im more than willing to share with you the opportunity!

K

The Census emerged as i was formulating all of my thoughts and while it supported alot of things i was saying about White America's policy of homogeny it sincerely hurt my feelings as it demonstrates that this willful abandoment of culture and ethnicity is an official and propogated policy of our Nation's government.

Take a look at your census particularly the matters of race classification.

Why is it that several categories of Asian Americans are classified yet European variety is abandonned?

People tried to tell me that it was because the Asians were more immediately immigrated than Europeans- but the idea that no European Americans have immigrated to this country in the last 10 years s preposterours.

Others told me that this was used to distribute aid to impoverished and less fortunate communities but again the idea that White and subsequently immigrant Europeans are not impoversihed is also preposterous.

For whatever reason the US Census bureau is calculating a misguided tally of White people in America. If you are originally Irish, Scottish, Russian, Polish, Jewish, Australian, French, and maybe even Spanish- you will either refer to yourself now as White or as "some other race."

It is obvious that racial classification is being imposed on you- why would you allow that and what will this lead to- make no mistake of where it has lead us thus far.


for more views on the racist US census try this-

www.sodabob.com/Constitution/Census.html

K

I just carried a whole thread by myself.

Have fun reading okplayer.

If you have questions post them up and Ill come back to answer them.

K

Yeah it's a lot to read (sheesh K, you ever heard of PCING YOURSELF ??!), but it's good stuff and worth the time.

Don't make me look bad y'all (I did beg him to relate all this). Somebody say SOMETHING!

------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
Help BooDaah STAY the Moderator for the OkayActivism Board....

Fill Angiee's Mailbox full of requests for me (HAHA she'll LOOOOVE THAT!!!)

How's THAT for pandering HMMMM???

I just spent the majority of my afternoon reading through your entire thread while working. Whew! That's a lot to digest. I appreciate being able to read all of this in one place. I've read in previous posts of yours what you've said about there being no such thing as "white" and I agree. I read an article about that in Time magazine several years back.

My question is this...what can we do? How can we easily explain this to white people who are open to receive this information that "white" is not a race? I can't print out these posts and distribute them to everyone. I'm trying to think of a quicker, more effective way to bring this up in conversation that will be understandable to them. Most of my friends are open to these kinds of discussions and would be willing to listen to this.

-TC

"One good thing about music, when it hits you feel no pain,
So hit me with music, hit me with music." - Bob Marley

The key to this conversation is the ethnicity that they are already completely aware of (in most cases). It stares them in their face when they see their FAMILY and then fades as they step out into the world. The race for white homogeny- the race against culture is confusing- the truth of their heritage is what comforts them.

Ask them where they come from- when they say some shit like Florida- chuckle softly to them and say "no, you silly cracker- where is your family from?"

but seriously folks- the key to my you are not white theory is that Whites have a pretty good idea of those things that they are otherwise they just dont know why they should abandon whiteness. theyve been lied to, the history of whiteness assimilated into a variety of cultures the homogeny of which leaves you wondering if being White is really all that bad. Well it has been- no one can deny that yet the whole american social system is built on the premise of covering it up... much less the fact that the true heritage behind whietness was covered up even before that.

Remind White people where they come from and remind them that that IS important. Racial classification can only be substantiated in events and social policy that reasonable humans no longer approve of or even consider- all the supposed legitimacy of "convenient descriptors" is purposely vague on behalf of Whites and innacurate in that it presupposes majority in a Democratic government.

Its bullshit through and through. The moment you break through the pervasive lies- teh rest falls apart very much on its own.

White people have been lied to all along- they know that, they always did- they just had nothing else to believe. Remind them of what that something else is.

K

I incorporate a similar theory in my studies of feminism and the racism that basically veiled the existance of a black feminist movement. But you brought it to me in a much larger scope. I'm interested in knowing what you are reading. I saw that you listed some books that someone else suggested, but where can I tap into some of your resources? By the way, I am seen as "white" (actually German-, Italian-, Russian-, Scottish- and ?-American -- phew!)and you are completely right when you say that the knowledge is right there but "white" people feel that they are benefitting by embracing "americanism." And for the same reason that they embrace "white culture," the majority of them are not going to accept a theory such as this, as well-argued as it is, coming from a "black" person. It will be quickly dismissed -- I have seen this happen time and time again. That's why this message needs to infiltrate their security by way of someone they see as one of their own. Thanks for taking the time to post all of this, and please suggest some reading. Peace.

I didnt read anything to come to these conclusions- nothing concise that persuaded me to these thoughts. ive read amiri Baraka, Eldridge Cleaver, Ivan Van Sertima, Malcolm X but Ive never found these postulates offered there.

I think my views are more a culmination of being perpetually respectful and vigilent in terms of alternative information and history. My father is a lawyer and I served my high school time in a jesuit acadamy and as such i have a predisposition to questioning the information i am given.

In questioning the system of social politics in this country I have found alot of evidence that demonstrates that anything this government propogates is probably a lie and as such I am apt to question everything that we think we know- certainly everything that has been told.

I ran across the White lie just being argumentative and lo and behold it actually made sense when I questioned it. Ive challenged White people (which should be the true test) and my thoughts havent been diminished one bit from the very start.

Its funny how the truth hits you.

I have lived intimately among white people for several years and understand them despite their own cultural confusion. The most powerful thing about my views is that when I challenge so-called White people its not so much that Im right but more often the White person has to admit that they know little or nothing about their "White" origins- and what is easily referenced about that history are the things that whites dont want to accept as part of their culture. THATS the problem- its one thing to know the horrible implications of racial classification but to be oblivious to them yet still empower them to indentify human kind is very dangerous. It is a pervasive and ominous threat to us all.

I never read anything that told me this- Im just glad that those books out there demonstrate that im not the only one who feels this way.

K

the brainwashing of so-called White America is pervasive and obvious.

A brief american history will quite clearly demonstrate that as the America's were colonized there was a heavy pressure of manifest destiny throughout the land and an even more dangerous threat of nationalism that loomed over the people but nonetheless protected them from foreign influence and invasion.

How many Jewish, Polish, Russian, Czech peoples- changed their names, how many had their names changed for them?

This was only the beginning of the homogenous nature of American social policy. Were not men tarred, feather, or beaten for foreign loyalty- how then were they allowed to express cultural dignities?

More to come...

K

Subsequent to the colonial era- white americans were swept up in the success of their new great nation. as such a true sense of Americanism was the answer to the White population- oddly enough this was also the answer and slogan for the initial stages of the Klu Klux kaln (their original slogan 100% Americanism).

Under the auspices of the American system it was easy to see that there was very little underlying culture with the exception of a perpetual struggle at maintaining the new world and the defensive stance it had to assume against would be invaders. The only culture available was too closely tied to foreign influences and was summarily misrepresented or secretted away.

A population that previously had very real ties to actual cultures and ethnicities abandonned those determinations- they settled together and allowed bits and pieces to be consumed into the mass community.

To embloden that which the American system thought would be positive examples of White culture they made shit up. Propanganda depicting people of culture as savages- from Birth of a Nation to Bugs Bunny cartoons- this was only the start. Then developping media that portrayed a completely fabricated fascimile of human and family life- White life.

Westerns- lies; most "cowboys" where Black and Mexican- this was pruported to show that White culture had its roots in the heroic taming of the west - bullshit.

Gladiator films- depicting that the history of Whites (Romans- but not necessarily Italians na'mean?) was in the heroic conquest of civil policy and sport- bullshit that is the stolen legacy of Italian peoples- not White people. These films even propogated that Egyptians were white- do I even need to get into this?

family values- media depicting the "nuclear" White American family- sickeningly perfect in their portrayal. This lie went on for many years- it wasnt that people believed it so much as they accepted that this is how life should be. Bullshit- the reasonable people lived their lives outside of such depictions and managed to keep their cultural reality very much intact- at least tehir cultural history (Of them were Blacks and colored people who were summarily cast out of this dangerous game- perhaps thanks are in order). Those among the whites that bought into this imagery set themselves up to perpetuate a lifestyle that was never meant to be- and was never substantiated by real life experience.

White America continues to have an inferiority complex in regards to ethnicity and culture because that is a major premise that propogates the existence of race classification. Ethnic peoples are still afterthoughts in civil and social policy not because Whites are necessarily evil but because we still observe the policies that determined very early on that this was the propper way of managing human development. Those policies have not changed- its hard enough to get people to admit what they actually mean.

The Preservation of Favored races in the Struggle for Life.

K

To cap this snowballing sense of White power those who had succeeded in casting off their cultural devotions and accountability proceeded to engage in that which really signified power in America- money.

Commerce became the primary focus of White American culture and hit big with Reagannomics, not to mention they had employed slave labor and other incorrigable business endeavors up until then. They not only had made fortunes- but they had gained interest on those fortunes.

Why were millions of colored and ethnic and even White people left out of the loop on what should have been a very prosperous time for the america's?

Because Race classification, White American social policy, and engrained racist propoganda- never promised anything for those who did not or could not comply to their sense of majority. Alot of White people didnt notice that they were fucking the world up cuz they were either too busy trying to get to the top or had lost so much human and cultural dignity to get there that they couldnt relate once they looked back. They were either a major proponent of the SYSTEM or they were too focussed on how to join that SYSTEM.

They figured- if you cast off all your cultural baggage, all this talk of your "people" your history of being enslaved, your whining as to how you were oppressed then you would succeed.

As they had done.

But at such a heavy price.

They failed to realize that the struggle we only mentioned a part of was actually a prevailing human struggle- one which they now promoted. Obligin man to sacrifice human dignity for the sake of social progress.

Society cant progress without human dignity even its demands and redefines the meaning of that dignity or even the meaning of being human (Black people have barely reached that entitlement even today). The White American system is implictly wrong- these are just the examples- Such things- fall apart. Look where we are now.

K

Damn KoLo, Its somewhat painful to have ones horizons broadened so quickly, and my eyes hurt too :-)

Thanks for the class, i always knew you was a funny mofukker, but now i'm impressed.
...enough nut swingin'...

Do you have a suggested reading list, or any resources for us. i don't want to do the reserch, just borrow yours :-)

Peace

You died
I cried
And kept on getting up
A little bit slower
And alot more deadly - Assata


If swept down to lift you up
would you cling to earthly things
your weak heart needs
and leave me facing God with dirty wings? - my sister :-)

post #5

KoLo- I think I like that

THE MOST OFFENSIVE QUOTE EVER:

"I'm an intellectual..." - Nas

I agree completely with your view on whiteness. I've been trying to get people to understand the problems with accepting race and not looking at ethnicity. I do understand your point about individuals who choose to call themselves white are accepting the racist attitude that goes along with the label. The problem is that many people do not want to give up the category of race for a number of reasons. People are quick to say that race is a social construct but are scared to move beyond that. These issues go beyond realizing that whites that accept this label accept the stigma of being a part of the racist history whites have created.

I keep thinking that maybe in the 21st century, as we get more people of color into the nation we will have to get rid of this label. But as new immigrants come in, they quickly fall into the trap of being labelled latino, asian, or black. People feel it is the only way to mobilize politcally and get their issues on the agenda. If ethnic minorities are able to do this, then maybe we can get somewhere.

As far as whites are concerned, they will be scared by the idea of ethnicity simply because they are comfortable with their white label. They don't really want to understand what its like to be french, german, italian american. So maybe the issue is never resolved.


*************
This life is temporary but the soul is eternal, separate the real from the lie, let me learn you. --Mos Def

Check the post about the census- its not just that Whites will continue to presume this classification its the US government is determined to impose this classification onto all European Americans- as such they arent even registered as European Americans anymore- they're just White or "Some other race."

I was willing to let all this go and just be an example of how twisted people's sense of self identity is but then here comes the census just to remind me that it is that way- cuz somebody wants it that way.

Thats scary stuff when you consider the consequences.

K

But if you look at the census now, you see how they're trying to get people to look at their ethnicity. That's why they ask after race for your other origin. But that's not worth much considering they are only paying attention to race. Yes it is white people that are in control of the census and how agendas get pushed, but there needs to be some way to counteract that. This I feel can be done through new movements that aren't centered around race.

***********
This life is temporary but the soul is eternal, separate the real from the lie, let me learn you. --Mos Def

I dont see how you can work around race without striking it at its lying ass root. It seems to me if you dont challenge the lie- people will believe it whether they admit or not, even if they have other things to think about.

I really dont think much will change until people are awakened to the truth. It seems to me by not centering any social impetus on race or it least the truth behind race and how it affects our society- we will only perpetuate this blissfully ignorant politically correct ideology that hasnt amounted to much change since its inception.

Its like claiming that race doesnt matter - when we all know it does - but not bothering to challenge it even though you know its wrong. It seems like you're starting off in a crippled position.

K

I stepped out of the Lesson and OkayActivist for a moment to reach out to bruthas at the Dead Prez board to see if they found these views helpful.

here are some of the converstaions I encountered there.

To all you ignorant fuccers that think there is no racism to whites, look what's going down in Zimbabwe. You got all the "war veterans" running around killing and brutalising white people, destroying their properties because whites own too much of their land, ignoring the fact that the whites are willing to hand back land if it's done democratically. And now the racist fuccers are threatening to kill any whites over there, whether they are landowners or not.

THIS is the reality of racism so don't give me that shit about blacks africans being totally innocent.

Dear "White" people,

You need help- dont take that the wrong way. Its just that all the frustration that you spit back at the Black people here is not in defense of what Blacks are delivering upon you it is what the White American system is propogating you hold onto yourself.

The truth is you are resigned to a racial classification that doesnt determine your culture. Neither of you have ties to African Whites in Zimbabwe- those guys are from Britain where are your families from? Germany, Austria, France? Think about it.

Your race classification here has led you to honor the totality of a supposed culture that breeds hatred and destruction throughout the world- for the sake of what little can be redeemed in contrast when the tables are actually turned. The problem is you cant redeem much from a beast that has grown to such magnitude nor do you need to.

You must understand that what is in need of redemption is your true ethnicity- your heritage. Ill give you a clue- its not White.

Ask yourself - where do White people come from? Ask yourself - where do my people, where does my family come from? there's your answer.

The origins of so-called White people is purposefully vague to obfuscate the true nature of racial classification and to suppress your cultural origins.

If you resign yourself to being of that heritage you can still be against that which carries on in Rawanda or anywhere else for that matter. But your current position pits you in the midst of a great beast whos crimes are magnanimous compared to any number of contrary examples you hold against it. As Dead Prez says- Look it up.

Where do White people come from- Britain, France, Hungary, Russia, Ireland, Greenland, etc; you mean to tell me the contrary injustices of one country can stand in redeemtption of deeds done in several? Dont get me wrong- Im not saying here that Europeans are inherently evil- Im saying that when you lump them all together under one racial classification (White) its bound to demonstrate a preponderence of wrongdoing compared to the rest of the global communities actions. Furthermore the actions of the White American sytem has tipped the scale irrevocably. If you continue to determine yourself as one among them- you also accept the accountability for them- thats fair. If you claim to be white then you are accountable to all that Whites have bred unto the world- just as any many of culture would be. This is not about blame- its about accountability.

The trick is you've been cast into that racial classification so that your misguidance and abandonment of culture leads you to defend that which you think identifies you- so you cant hold those responsible accountable. Of course you realize that the same qualifier represents a class for which several crimes have been comitted and even several people who still commit those crimes today nonetheless you cant find a way to be rid o them. You seemingly have no choice but to defen them in that you would be defending yourself.

The truth is- you are not responsible for all the horror done in the name of White people unless you are determined to consider yourself White. Otherwise you can align yourself naturally and ethnically and hold those accountable for the actions of their community- isnt that fair?

If you want to square off against injustice- I admire that, but if you do it claiming that you're White- you're obviously on the wrong team.


The truth is- you are not White


K

According to 95% of you all/most whites are:

IGNORANT
OPPRESSORS
SLAVEDRIVERS
BRUTALISERS
HYPOCRITS
RACISTS

Most of you call white people "crackers" the white equivalent to "niggers".

Most of you aren't willing to talk to a white person without putting them down and telling them they are not as righteous as you or telling them that they being selfish by talking about white people.

Most of you think it's fine for black people to live in white countries but want white people out of black countries at the same time.

Most of you probably would never see a white person again if you didn't have to.

YOU ARE THE RACISTS.
YOU ARE THE PEOPLE FUELING RACISM.
YOU ARE THE PEOPLE HOLDING BACK YOUR RACE.

Take a step back and think about it before replying with another attack at the white person.

user248,

its obvious that u dont know the definition of racism. simply saying i hate black people or i hate white people is not what racism is. the definition of racism is SYSTEMATIC negative predjudice and negative descrimination against individuals and groups based on values(assumptions) of one group's superiority and another groups inferiority. it is this systematic racism in this country that is holding back black people so dont blame it on other black people because that is blaming the victim. you also said it is these people who are fueling racism but this is not possible either. the way most of these biased feelings are spread are through the media. in this country, the "system" doesnt give a forum for black people so how can they be the ones fueling racism? the only black people the public ever hears from are the "smiling" athletes and the rappers who like to talk about how much money they have, neither of whom are fueling racism. sometime you should take a close look at what u read in newspapers and see on T.V. if you really want to know who is fueling racism.

I disagree with this definition of racism

I think its a common misconception among militant Blacks that this is a fair definition of racism. I urge you all to understand that the definition of racism is much much simpler than that.

Racism- is simply the belief and propogation of race classification as a valid means of categorizing human development. The key to race is not power- its ideology.

White American propoganda has pervasively held people under the presumption that racism is demonstrated by extreme views and actions but no- those are simply the end of a spectrum that runs throughout American society- and yes that means you too.

Do you need to burn a cross to be a racist- no you only need to believe in race- that is the root. Do you need to impose your supposed privilege upon others to be racist- no. Being a racist doesnt even mitigate that one is prejudice hence the term racial prejudice. The trick being played on you is not that you're in a racist system but that you are subsequently racist and that system is trying to keep you from considering that- so that you may carry on that ideology- dont fall for it- NONE OF YOU.

As I understand race and racism- we are all guilty if we support the ideology of race classification. What Im here to tell you is that we shouldnt support such classification. we'll get into that later.


with all that said (and wait til the "white" guy hears this)

All Whites are racist- and of course all Blacks are racist; the difference is Blacks have good reason to be. we'll get into that later too.

K

I want you to be clear on a few things- of course with the response you got you might have already retreated. No matter- someone will be saved today.

What you all need to understand is that the hate that user248 refers to here is as others say "the hate that hate produced." WHile some of you may be offended by being labelled and presumptiously classified you have to understand that the classification that has been determined for you is proven and documented to be all the countless horrible things that we (Blacks) hold you accountable for.

What you need to realize is that you DO have a choice in assuming that classification.

As I have said many times- YOU ARE NOT WHITE.

If I had time to explain I would- but suffice it to say that your assuming that classification and representing yourself as such among Blacks is just as much hateful as all the derision you've received in return.

White people did beat us and enslave and murder us- a variety of attrocities were committed against my people not just by White people but for the sake of White people; as such White people must own those misdeeds and the reciprocity squarely.

If you do not wish to be held accountable for those deeds- then YOU must take it upon yourself to relenquish yourself of the false classification of whiteness, the supposed majority it makes up and the subsequent democracy it encroaches on.

Be you french american, irish american, german american, russian american- embrace that heritage and abandon the vicious lie of White racial classification that has prevailed and suppressed human dignity for far too long.

The choice IS yours.


You ask us not to hold such thoughts about you- yet you volunteer to be among the ranks of those guilty, guilty people.


K

no doubt. There's no science in it, only sociology............once again, you are so right!!! Go'on then.........


"Y'all don't believe fat meat greasy!!"-my mama

I have to fight people tooth and nail to get them to believe just those facts alone.

i will perservere

What's interesting is that all kinds of people willingly WILL NOT stop to even think that this is the truth and the only folks I've seriously gotten to listen to what I have to say are of African descent (although I'm just gettin' started, the believers are few and, not-so amazingly, young--high school age, in fact). All I, and everyone else who believes, can do is keep tryin'. Both those who think they're "black" and "white" can't even fathom how their lives would change if they REALLY took the time to consider the racist ideology they live everyday.

Its the same with a lot of stuff I've been trying to point out to these folks though. A fellow OKPlayer pointed me to an article about how some breast cancer is caused and the industries that are creating it are the same ones who are in business to create medications to alleviate the symptoms of it. The people that I come in contact with everyday (my co-workers at my 2nd job, all women) couldn't even get past the first page (it was 4 pages printed) without asking what the point of the article was. I was stunned, to say the least. Just goes to show..."Ya blind baby....ya blind to the fact of who ya are 'cause you're watchin' all that garbage."


"It ain't where you from, its where you at"--RAKIM
"I am everyday people"--SLY AND THE FAMILY STONE

A fellow
>OKPlayer pointed me to an
>article about how some breast
>cancer is caused and the
>industries that are creating it
>are the same ones who
>are in business to create
>medications to alleviate the symptoms
>of it.

that was me! thanks for spreading that word. Man, with the internet we can spread knowledge faster, farther and more efficiently than ever... the seeds of revolution are being planted in cyberspace!

The people
>that I come in contact
>with everyday (my co-workers at
>my 2nd job, all women)
>couldn't even get past the
>first page (it was 4
>pages printed) without asking what
>the point of the article
>was. I was stunned,
>to say the least.
>Just goes to show..."Ya blind
>baby....ya blind to the fact
>of who ya are 'cause
>you're watchin' >readin' and internalizin'] all that
>garbage."

you work w/ some dumbass hoes then. (sexism intended) (what? this isn't a anti-sexism post)

THE MOST OFFENSIVE QUOTE EVER:

"I'm an intellectual..." - Nas

thnaks k for finally puttin all this in one place.

my question is this:
hypothetically speaking, what if people (black/white...)were to really understand what you are saying? and then white people proceed to re-learn and embrace their family heritages and call themselves some form of european-amerikkan. does changing the way they classify themselves absolve white(?) people of 500 years of systematic oppression? you stated in a previous thread in the lesson, that amerikkka has a karmic debt to pay. so once white people realize and accept that they are not white, who then does this debt fall upon?
what you are saying is true- no argument.
what i see is a bunch of white people reclaiming their heritage, and then saying to us, see, you have no one to blame anymore. personally, i don't care what they think, i think they (as a collective) need serious counseling, but many of us do care so i care how their understanding of what you are saying would affect us.

the fact remains, they banded together to control the minds, the mines, the land, the schools, the churches...so shouldn't we see them as the collective they chose to be to fight back?

i recognize the problem in this (preceeding paragraph) being those whites who genuinely seek to acknowledge the past, relearn and deprogram their minds, and be part of the process that changes actions and thus change results. i have no clue as to how we deal w/ them. and this is where claiming your true heritage would work.

please, school me K.

(but can you keep it under 2 pages?)j/k.

much love baby.


**********THE SIG**********

i'm a tru pisces tryna flow in the direction of both of these okplayer quotes:

"I m raising a fuckin angelic being who is going to replenish this fuckin earths cuz in 2G all we fuckin do is talk.....im teachin my seed to turn his spirit inside out and spread beams of green light"
-nebbie

"GOd give me the strength to change the things i can, understanding for those i cannot and the muthafuckin heart to stand up for my beliefs and principles, so that when the government that is suppossed to protect me turns against me and my people we will have the means, the might and the muthafuckin gun power to blow away our oppressors
umm amen"
-earthqueen

and last but not least:

"all things considered, i'd rather be me"
-bfnh

If "white" were to no longer be, would that absolve those former "white" folks of what they had done just because they re-claimed their heritage? Absolutely not. The actions were still taken by INDIVIDUALS, and thus, the individuals must see to it that they are part of the solution. If they just wipe their slate clean, they are essentially no better off than when they were a part of the "white" regime. I would hope, in coming to the conclusion of repudiating "white"-ness, that a larger picture would loom before them and they would realize that although they have started to get "right" with themselves (and therefore, with others), that the well-being of the "others" (people who don't claim that particular heritage, culture or ethnicity) is an important factor in truely being who THEY are. If your stomach aches, you don't cut it out, you try to heal it. Such is what I should think would happen when "whites" embrace who they are and where they come from. They will realize that you truely cannot embrace yourself fully without the symbiotic relationships of their brothers and sisters, and they will not be whole (definitely meant in a spiritual sense) without understanding and aiding their fellow humans. Its cliche, but, in helping others, you help yourself to a greater comprehension of WHAT IS.

"It ain't where you from, its where you at"--RAKIM
"I am everyday people"--SLY AND THE FAMILY STONE

To relinquish your White racial classification does not relinquish you from accountability - in fact implicit in the sincere revelation of this truth and acceptance and subsequent action is that any former "white" person should realize at the very least they are accountable for considering themselves White for all this time and letting the consequences pass by unchecked.

as Aaron said- they would "realize" their imposition on the world- again this is not a matter of blame its a matter of accountability.

This isnt necessarily about middleclass whites either- the power struggle is held in the hands of very rich white men. By breaking down the system of majority that empowers the rich white people who will cling determinantly to that class (y'all are realizing that a subversive class system is what we're talking about by this point right?) They will be forced to either comply to demands for social repair or will become even more repressive and dangerous.

In either case the results will fall more evenly on the heads of the people and not just the Black and colored and foreign people- as it has done for quite some time now.


We're not asking whites to stop being white just so they dont have to feel guilty. We're asking that they join US in the fight against the oppressive intentions of those who wont. At the very least we ask that they stop supporting them in such a pervasive fashion.


K

i printed this post out at work, 25pgs, and read during my commute, gave the printed version to mom, and just finished, all i can say right now is thankyou, i'll be back though, peace.

AIM: Reusche11e
Email: reuschelle@hotmail.com

RIP Alexus (aka erin)
http://www.okayplayer.com/dcforum/general2/403.html

member of SPAS, soon to be Vp, lol

member of A.A. - officially formed in the early hours of April 9, 2000

proud member of BBBS since 2G

"exiting to hover over your opinion, never let another rule inside of my dominion..."

"thought I was humble then I let out the arrogant, anti american government crisis, stare into my eyes don't you see that you could never win..."

"common sense should have told you the man is me..... you didn't know that though." - all by Gift of Gab

roblem with the gene pool is "Rest in peace, move in passion." -Khalil Gibran
APPLY LIBERALLY!!!!! :-)

My homepage:
http://members.blackplanet.com/ugetme/

but at the same time I am so NOT trying to be a prophet- im telling you guys what i think is the truth.

If my views are wrong Id love to hear how so- cuz this shit truly scares me.

I hope to God every night- everytime I write shit like this- that its not real. But everybody I talk to tells me it is- even the White people tell me that they live this lie, and those that deny it can barely come up with good reason.


Let these words be taken by the community- not as my thoughts but as thoughts Ive gathered from Black voices throughout history. They are no more or less my thoughts now than they are yours- or at least that's how Id like them to be.

Please if you have anything to share that clears this up or makes this more true to you- please let us know.

All this shit would be useless if it was just about me.


K

I want to thank you for opening my eyes to a lot of things. You've really motivated me to find out more about my Irish heratige.

But my only question...If I was German, does that mean that I would be responsable for Hitler's atrocities?

BeeFred

Hitler is responsible for hitler's attrocities.

Hitler had a great number of men who are responsible for those deeds. From what Ive read the German population was largely opposed to what Hitler beca,e- and were kept in the dark about a lot of the stuff he did. Furthermore the people of Germany at a grass roots level were about as capable of actually opposing the Third Reich as I am of eliminating the police; Im certainly not accountable for the American government- but I do admit that I play a part in it.

Realize your history- the accountability you accept from that is sheerly your consciental perogative.

The truth is- all the horror that Hitler brought is built on the same premises that the White American Government still acts upon today- its not "should you be accountable" its more like how do you avoid it?


lets clear this up- accountability doesnt mean you're guilty of something. Accountability means you respect the fact that an impropriety is evident and need be adjusted, accountability comes when you realize and assess how closely you are related to those deeds- but in any case you realize that something must be done.

What Hitler did- what America is doing- needs to be ammended IMMEDIATELY.

K

okay, it's going to take me awhile to sift through all of this but when i do i am gonna respond.
Nappiness is next to Godliness!!!
"To thy ownself be true"
Ms. Nappiness

I honestly requested that K, put this all together in one place here because (to me) this is part of what this board is supposed to do...educate.

I'm sure there are those who think this is all a load of crap, but DIALOG is what I'm looking for. So to any who might be reading who feels spooked, don't. Discussion is the key to furthering whatever knowledge we have to share.

I'm gonna make sure this joint gets archived.

Besides, with K posting a response to every query (and the slow rate at which this board moves) I'm sure it'll be on the first page for about a week anyway.

Keep posting y'all.

------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
Help BooDaah STAY the Moderator for the OkayActivism Board....

Fill Angiee's Mailbox full of requests for me (HAHA she'll LOOOOVE THAT!!!)

How's THAT for pandering HMMMM???

Ill keep it up


and y'all can hate me for dominating the thread if ya want- but as boo said im looking for dialogue as ie said many times

....don't call me "boo". Hahahahaha. :-)

------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
Help BooDaah STAY the Moderator for the OkayActivism Board....

Fill Angiee's Mailbox full of requests for me (HAHA she'll LOOOOVE THAT!!!)

How's THAT for pandering HMMMM???

If youd catch that

if european americans calling themselves white is wrong, then so is african americans calling themselves black. i know you have explained the difference before, but can you do it again?


ok, moving on...
if we decide to call ourselves african americans to reclaim our heritage (no matter how broad 'african' is) then isn't that a HUGE contradiciton? aren't african values/society directly opposing to american values/society, which have been directly descended from eorpean culture?

my understanding of the historic relationship between the african and the european is that they have irreconcilable differences. both realities can exist in the same world, but not in the same space. like islam and christianity exist in the same world, but mosques and churches will never be combined to form one place of worship.



**********THE SIG**********

i'm a tru pisces tryna flow in the direction of both of these okplayer quotes:

"I m raising a fuckin angelic being who is going to replenish this fuckin earths cuz in 2G all we fuckin do is talk.....im teachin my seed to turn his spirit inside out and spread beams of green light"
-nebbie

"GOd give me the strength to change the things i can, understanding for those i cannot and the muthafuckin heart to stand up for my beliefs and principles, so that when the government that is suppossed to protect me turns against me and my people we will have the means, the might and the muthafuckin gun power to blow away our oppressors
umm amen"
-earthqueen

and last but not least:

"all things considered, i'd rather be me"
-bfnh

>if european americans calling themselves white
>is wrong, then so is
>african americans calling themselves black.
> i know you have
>explained the difference before, but
>can you do it again?

The difference is that it is neither wrong to call yourself Black or White- but in calling yourself White you must accept all the things you are saying about yourself. I have researched Blackness and I accept and am willing to be accountable for everything Blacks have done and been obliged to do. Would a so-called White person be willing to do the same- certainly not.

The only reason White people continue to call themselves is that they are under the impression that man can lively exculsively beyond traditions and deeds set forth by his culture- but thats just not how the world works. People who call themselves White may feel guilty but they refuse to be accountable for being White- thats what is wrong.

>ok, moving on...
>if we decide to call ourselves
>african americans to reclaim our
>heritage (no matter how broad
>'african' is) then isn't that
>a HUGE contradiciton? aren't
>african values/society directly opposing to
>american values/society, which have been
>directly descended from eorpean culture?

I didnt suggest that- and yes you are right; that doenst mean that those cultures cant coexist and reach mutual conclusions- as they do quite clearly in the minds of African Americans; they lead to much conclusion indeed but thats another issue.

I personally call myself Black for the sake of solidarity against a system that tried to impose that classification on my people- In response I accept that classification and spit it back at the system and ask WHAT DOES THAT MAKE YOU? Furthermore- my belief is that African was something that was stolen from me and American is something I still havent been given- so i call myself Black to represent all that. What does calling oneself White represent?


>my understanding of the historic relationship
>between the african and the
>european is that they have
>irreconcilable differences. both realities
>can exist in the same
>world, but not in the
>same space. like islam
>and christianity exist in the
>same world, but mosques and
>churches will never be combined
>to form one place of
>worship.

Your analogy doesnt speak well enough to the nature of man- while a mosque and a church will never be the same place- it does not preclude that Christian men could not be welcome in a mosque and vice versa. Certainly their are particular examples that deny this- but religion is a totally different issue. As far as the analogy- their may be cultural disputes but reasonable men can live civilly under even the most oppresive circumstances. If we couldnt- there would be no use- what we have currently is a great number of people who are not willing to try.

K

>Your analogy doesnt speak well enough to the nature of man- while a mosque and a church will never be the same place- it does not preclude that Christian men could not be welcome in a mosque and vice versa.

it was the first analogy i could come up w/.
and i agree that a christian man/woman could very well be welcomed in a mosue, just like a person from one land might visit another land. however, when the two attempt to COMBINE to form one, herein lies the problem. not in all things, but in terms of the afrikan reality vs. the european reality and their historic relationship to one another, has that relationship ever been in balance when the two were combined in one land, in one space?

>As far as the analogy- their may be cultural disputes but reasonable men can live civilly under even the most oppresive circumstances.

i don't quite understand this because i thought we wre trying NOT to live in oprressive circumstances rather than just exist civily in oppressive circumstances. i know we can do this (the latter), but when existing in circumstance means repressing full expression of your culture to the only place where it can exist w/ out being attacked (the soul, the spirit), then i don't think that is healthy. whatever your culture is. maybe i am not getting what you are tryna say.

>If we couldnt- there would be no use- what we have currently is a great number of people who are not willing to try.

at the same time there are a great number of people who ARE willing to try and live civily as long as full expression of culture, true teaching of history/religion...remains in the past. it's like let's start from where we are now, remember history only in terms of the past. never link it to today in a way that would make people see and deal w/ each other a different level w/ a different understanding. i don't think people (and i mean black and white) really want to go through this process. and yes, i am jumpin out there to make that generalization.



**********THE SIG**********

i'm a tru pisces tryna flow in the direction of both of these okplayer quotes:

"I m raising a fuckin angelic being who is going to replenish this fuckin earths cuz in 2G all we fuckin do is talk.....im teachin my seed to turn his spirit inside out and spread beams of green light"
-nebbie

"GOd give me the strength to change the things i can, understanding for those i cannot and the muthafuckin heart to stand up for my beliefs and principles, so that when the government that is suppossed to protect me turns against me and my people we will have the means, the might and the muthafuckin gun power to blow away our oppressors
umm amen"
-earthqueen

and last but not least:

"all things considered, i'd rather be me"
-bfnh

has that
>relationship ever been in balance
>when the two were combined
>in one land, in one
>space?

Once upon a time- a long long long time ago. Peace between Europeans and africans on a large or national scale hasnt been visited since the times o Egypt- where Africa was respected as the fertile crescent. Greeks and other scholars migrated there for the purpose of study.

I think it was imperialism, colonialism and religious crusade that marred what could have ben a great relationship.

>i don't quite understand this because
>i thought we wre trying
>NOT to live in oprressive
>circumstances rather than just exist
>civily in oppressive circumstances.
>i know we can do
>this (the latter), but when
>existing in circumstance means repressing
>full expression of your culture
>to the only place where
>it can exist w/ out
>being attacked (the soul, the
>spirit), then i don't think
>that is healthy. whatever
>your culture is. maybe
>i am not getting what
>you are tryna say.

What Im saying opporessive circumstances are a natural state of human life. if it is not the system governement there are still issues of health and welfare that will prevail human life. Civility and cultural respect are the key o overcoming adversity not simply because they represent anything inherently good about people but because culture and tradition evoke a natural history of human development. In realizing that which your people have struggled through you are more capable of overcoming new struggles. By acting civilly the people can come together and share the wisdom brought forth by their various heritages.

>>If we couldnt- there would be no use- what we have currently is a great number of people who are not willing to try.
>
>at the same time there are
>a great number of people
>who ARE willing to try
>and live civily as long
>as full expression of culture,
>true teaching of history/religion...remains in
>the past. it's like
>let's start from where we
>are now, remember history only
>in terms of the past.
> never link it to
>today in a way that
>would make people see and
>deal w/ each other a
>different level w/ a different
>understanding. i don't think
>people (and i mean black
>and white) really want to
>go through this process.
>and yes, i am jumpin
>out there to make that
>generalization.

The problem with proceeding in that fashion is that starting from now would leave all people but whites at a disadvantage. We're not happy with the current state of affairs and we demand that the world understand that our current situation is primarily borne up from the crimes of history. If we started from this point on- Blacks will still be slighted as we have been from the very beginnings of this country.

if we start from here that means we must be happy to be falsely imprisoned, set up, or maybe even killed- none of us are willing to accept those circumstances.

K

This is a lot to swallow. You're absolutely right though - when you choose to classify yourself by a certain term, then you must be able to accept all the good and the bad that goes along with that term. But damn- is it really possible for blacks and whites to redefine themselves? Is it possible for people in general to even give a damn about their motives and why they say the things that they do, instead of just falling in line with everyone else because its easier? The reason I ask is because I'm 22 and I'm just starting my journey to desire truth and knowledge in a society where ignorance is cool and anything other than that is eccentric or "out there". It just bothers me so much that its so few of us who desire more and it makes me feel like I'm all by myself leading me to think that things will never change. :'(

BUT

it is the truth.

The truth prevails no matter who knows it- no matter who admits it. If YOU know the truth then thats a glorious thing even if the world is determined to live otherwise.

K

it's not enough for me. It's not enough for just me and a select few to begin to rebuild the way that we look at ourselves while 98% of the world is settling for bling bling because thats the only thing that we think is worth reaching for. It just pisses me off that's all.

because, as you can see, many of us feel the same way. Using an simile from a previous post, you hurt because they are not experiencing the same epiphany of truth you are, just as you feel the pain when your stomach is going through some tumult because of something you ate. They are a part of you, and you of them. Race theory is as indigestible by the human psyche as plastic is to your stomach. Everyone is held back by its unnaturalness, and we've got to set the record straight.

As I've said in the past, if you think it is your job to bring the truth to people, do so. You will have failures, setbacks, and triumphs, just like with anything else, but you MUST realize that this endeavor has a cumulative effect. Even if, throughout the span of your lifetime, you manage to connect with one person, that is a great thing (although I've made in-roads with a couple folks during the limited time that I've had this knowledge, and there's no reason why you wouldn't be able to do the same). That person who makes the decision to change their life in this manner could end up being someone who will touch many people's lives. Thus, what was only one, could turn out to be many, but the truth probably won't be known and practiced by most people in our lifetime.

Look how long it took for blacks to be recognized as just humans worthy of fair treatment (not that this is played out in everyday life much). Like many things (if not all) there will be an ebb and flow to the desemination and acceptance of this particular truth. Fifty years from now, there might be a great leader like Malcolm or Martin who causes many things to happen at once, and then the afterglow will occur and all of the accomplishments of this period will seem as if they had been forgotten (but they haven't). Its just the natural way of the universe ("Cy-cles, cy-cles, life goes in cycles"--Chuck D).

At all costs, you must let the person you're speaking to decide the path, or you will have accomplished nothing. Browbeating will not suffice. State the facts. State them with passion but not rancor, let peace and love not anger be your motivating factor (for that is the ultimate goal of this, no?). Anyway, sorry if I was talking about ish you already realized. I tend to get carried away at times.


"It ain't where you from, its where you at"--RAKIM
"I am everyday people"--SLY AND THE FAMILY STONE

I must admit when I first saw the title I came with a negative attitude. Not because I think of myself as white but because I thought you were going to come with a piece against whites. Which you did but it was truly something from a different place and when I finished I didn’t feel diminished just educated.

I’ll try and make myself clear hear. I have no clue how you define my heritage, not because I’m not interested but because it’s too dammn complicated to hang a simple label on me. I live in England; I am a mixture of English, Irish, Welsh and Scottish blood but it gets more complicated. I bring this up at a time in the UK when the question of what it is to be English is being brought up due to the devolution of our political processes. There have been Welsh and Scottish assemblies set up and people have noticed the strong national identities present in these counties and are asking what about us? The problem is that when people start talking about the English our colonial past, rule Britannia and the great Anglo-Saxon Englishman are the things that are the most commonly talked about. I heard a musician called Billy Bragg talk about this at one of his concerts; one of his songs was about the most important part of Anglo-Saxon being the hyphen. There is no such thing as a pure bred Englishman; they are a mix of Celtic, Scandinavian, Saxon and various Europeans. Why does this upset them? Because the kind of person who believes in this lie is the kind of xenophobic person who hates all Europeans, Asians and blacks but yet they have no idea of where they truly come from. I have witnessed this in the flesh, at the moment I live in a halls of residence in Cambridge and we have a broad range of nationalities and colours represented in the building. There is a guy who perpetuates this xenophobic attitude, he will start talking all sort of rubbish at the foreigners and talk shit about race but he is a product of his upbringing and environment. There is no way to communicate with him on this because he is set in his way and there is no point in brow beating him. Now where am I going with this?

Well, labels are dangerous because they are simply words used to define people and a person is a very complicated thing to describe with a single word. There is too much room for interpretation and misinterpretation, unless we educate people about open-mindedness early how are we going to persuade people that colour or geography or whatever else sets you apart as different doesn’t matter. That celebrating our differences and knowing our history as it applies to the world today is important.

At the time of the Stephen Lawrence enquiry Spike Lee was over here and was interviewed about the report. He was asked whether he was surprised about what was currently going on in Britian and he replied why shouldn’t it happen to us in Britain? I can’t remember exactly what he said so don’t quote me on this but I’d like to ask a question. Have you got any idea how we move forward? If a guy who is black looks at me and discounts me because of my colour that is unfair on me as a person but I can’t blame him considering his probable experiences. Just how am I personally meant to deal with this? Sorry for the length but I am as confused on this issue as anyone is and while you have been concentrating on the American issues I thought that as it is a universal problem I’d drop my two pennies worth.

PEACE

gee

~sig starts here~

Mouse: "Do not bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead, try to realize the truth."
Neo: "What truth?"
Mouse: "There is no spoon. Then you'll know that its not the spoon that bends...but you." ~the matrix

Sometimes, when I'm alone, I think about ketchup, because I know that the true is that it's just sitting there in a bottle, by itself. I'm pretty sure it's red. Sometimes when I'm with ketchup, I think about being alone, in a bottle. Standing next to the mustard all day. ~ chester from sifl and olly

...i guess Black people aren't Black?

you may have talked about this already
in this thread but i only read approx.
10 of them...but what is your view on that?

would a better classification be African,
instead of Black?

just curious to see what u think...cause
i like the way u think.

peace and positivity

**********THE SIG**********

i'm a tru pisces tryna flow in the direction of both of these okplayer quotes:

"I m raising a fuckin angelic being who is going to replenish this fuckin earths cuz in 2G all we fuckin do is talk.....im teachin my seed to turn his spirit inside out and spread beams of green light"
-nebbie

"GOd give me the strength to change the things i can, understanding for those i cannot and the muthafuckin heart to stand up for my beliefs and principles, so that when the government that is suppossed to protect me turns against me and my people we will have the means, the might and the muthafuckin gun power to blow away our oppressors
umm amen"
-earthqueen

and last but not least:

"all things considered, i'd rather be me"
-bfnh

I was sure I covered it but couldnt find it. Sorry y'all all this militance and comic book work has left me exhausted- ill be back in order after a good nap.

When you see blaring typos- you know koala aint been sleepin.

K

Being a "White" (I use this cuz I know once one of you saw me it'd be like that) man in todays america, I am willing to accept that people of my persuasion rape the earth, destroy culture, and promote genocide, this is a very hard thing to deal with sometimes. Hell all the time! Being involved in Black culture, is also hard, I feel some days that no matter how hard I work for a true contribution that some ass will be there telling me I want to be black.. Which is not true. I want to be in a culture of diversity. This can not happen until we UNITE toghether and find true liberty. The "MAN" we hate is not the same as the "white" man busting his ass to survive. Our common enemy is he who holds the people in bondage, divides us by means of race, and profits from our hard work or incarceration.


JUSTICE

MAY IS OFFENSIVE QUOTE MONTH:
"Muthafukkas dont wanna tell you your shit is wack, cause they all YES men, sittin around carrying your roadie cases, bein' your fukkin' cheerleaders. Imma tell you straight, look in the mirror you wack, mix down aint right, cadence is off, vocals are too low, stage show is weak, FUCK YOU!" - Dr. Doom

NEW INDUCTEE!!!! SPAS!!! RECOGNIZE!!
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I'm not here right now please leave a message...

and it fits perfectly into koala's theory. The divide and conquer method did not only divide blacks from each other (men vs. women, light vs dark, free vs. slave, militant vs peaceful), but divided the oppressed blacks from the poor whites who were to a far lesser extent oppressed also.

It's essential to study how the black/white thing played out in other countries of the diaspora, too. don't think that the US is the only country that's still "recovering" from the repercussions of centuries of slavery. Read about Brazil, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Guyana, etc.

the Dominican Republic in particular shows you that "white" is something that doesn't exist. Many light-skinned mulatos there deny their African heritage are considered white and enjoy the privileges that go along with it. You can tell after learning more about this that interracial mixing will not end racism, it just expands the definition of white to include more people to maintain a white majority, just like Koala points out that the definition of white in the US has grown to include Southern Europeans, Eastern Europeans, and even Jews, whereas those were all 2nd class citizens 100 years ago.

But still, someone who's 3/4 "white" and 1/4 "black" is black. In Haiti, if you're 1/4 white, you're a mulatto and enjoy the privileges that go along with that, which can include speaking "real French" and getting an education in France or the US. But any NOTICEABLE amount of African heritage makes you black in the US... I think this is changing though.

Now, there's even a "race" called Latino, which isn't a race by any definition of the word. But "white" latinos can assimilate into "white" American society, and so can Asian-Americans if they try. It's really weird when you think about it, but it makes perfect sense. Soon, Mexican-Americans will be a "majority", and I guarantee that the definition of "white" will expand again to include Latinos and Asians with money and maybe even mulattoes from the 'burbs. I know "white" has already started to include more than just people with purely European descent, because white folks assume I'm one of them.

This gets way more complicated, just wanted to get $0.02 off my chest (love mixing my metaphors).

THE MOST OFFENSIVE QUOTE EVER:

"I'm an intellectual..." - Nas

...cause these people (OkayPlayers) have really pissed me off today.


------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
Help BooDaah STAY the Moderator for the OkayActivism Board....

Fill Angiee's Mailbox full of requests for me (HAHA she'll LOOOOVE THAT!!!)

How's THAT for pandering HMMMM???

"there's still some people that haven't heard the koalalove "YOU ARE NOT WHITE" speech..." - res1

"there's still some people that haven't heard the koalalove "YOU ARE NOT WHITE" speech..." - res1