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Forum nameOkay Activist Archives
Topic subjectfor what it's worth...
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=22&topic_id=11689&mesg_id=11734
11734, for what it's worth...
Posted by alek, Sun Sep-23-01 10:14 AM
>Before I respond to your post
>I just want to say
>that I let my emotions
>get the better of me
>when responding to Hotthyng.
>Thus the post was more
>of rant of frustration than
>any certifiable lesson building.
>I fucked up.

...you didn't do a much better job of controling yourself in your response to me.

I'm not trying to piss you off, believe me. I'm trying to learn, and to teach, like everybody else.

However, my response to you was definitely hasty, in that you admitted below that you'd let your emotions get the better of you.

>He asked about questions about "pleasure"
>based on his own understanding
>of what pleasure means in
>the context of another.
>Instead of asking HOW the
>"other" defined pleasure, he sarcastically
>questioned where could pleasure possibly
>come from in an "afrikan"

Agreed. I'm not saying it wasn't a somewhat cheap post.

>>Applying your worldview to everyone/everything else
>>is a WESTERN practice, and
>>guess what? You're doing

>Actually EVERYONE apply their ideology on
>everyone and everything when trying
>to understand them which in
>an of itself is not
>right/wrong (initially that is).
>I take this into account
>when talking to anyone.

Okay. Agreed.
Actually, I think the trend toward universal human constants is definitely a western one, though. Western anthropology invented the "universal scales" and "universal methodology" of cultural inquiry. We obviously think we can be objective.

Whereas, in my experience, non-Western cultures have a more relatavist understanding of things, an understanding and acceptance of difference. But, obviously, that's not always true.

>This is nothing but ignorance,
>i.e. not knowing, which is
>not "wrong." HOwever with
>knowledge one learns that another's
>way is DIFFERENT. The problem
>is when one continually applies
>same thinking to how others
>act i.e. universalism despite KNOWLEDGE.

Completely agree.

>Hotthyng has continually done this
>PROBLEM! this isn't the
>first time this discussion has
>been brought up.

Well, in that case, neither you or Hotthyng is contributing much to the debate by pissing at each-other for your own personal reasons. At least according to your very first response.

>>Sorry, but this is a pathetic
>>response to a serious question
>>and a good point.
>>I've been studying African music
>>intensively for three straight years

>this question
>was NOT serious.

It wasn't phrased seriously, but I believe it *was* a serious question. On reading Hotthyng's original post (despite it's kind of objectionable tone), I was eager to see how you and others would respond, because I considered it (in substance) to be a valuable question that doesn't get addressed very often.

I was disappointed. Some people definitely spoke about pleasure and its cultural/cross-cultural definitions, but you mainly ranted, and I thought you (as someone with a wealth of knowledge and understanding) should be called on that.

>was a pitiful and disrespectful
>attempt at humor and your
>attempt to justify it is
>also pitiful and disrespectful.

All I did was justify the content of the question. I'm not defending anyone.

>Seriously dude TRY HARDER. You
>example of African music has
>NOTHING to do with the

Actually, it has a whole fucking lot to do with it, so don't dismiss me. I was volunteering an avenue through which other conceptions of pleasure could be explained. I know a lot about it, and (had someone else not done it for me), I would have given my personal take on pleasure in African culture -- which would have included town ritual, the aestheticization (or, depending on how you look at it, the un-aestheticization) of daily life, the integration of work and art, the integration of duty and recreation...a whole lot of relevant things.

>This had NOTHING to do with
>the topic. TRY HARDER

I don't think "TRY HARDER," even though it has a nice ring to it, has any meaning whatsoever.

Try harder to think like you?
Try harder to act like you?
Try harder to write like you?

Try harder to agree with you?

If all you're saying is, "put more care into your thoughts and actions," then that's fine but stop screaming it, and stop using it as a debating tool to grind people down. That's crap, and it's a silly shortcut ("you just don't try hard enough, that's why your argument isn't legitimate").

>>Another reactionary response to an even
>>BETTER question. Why don't
>>you give us your opinion
>>an "what the rewards of
>>discipline" are? I think
>>that'd be valuable...or at least
>>a lot more valuable that

>I've discussed this SEVERAL TIMES before.

I know, I've been here for a while.

>And don't think
>I am not willing to
>re-dscuss a previously discussed topic,
>because i am. However
>I did not see the
>need in this case

So why respond?
Why let someone bait you, and why be baited?

> Thus I did not
>feel obligated to give him
>any true eye-opening answers.

see above.

>>This is hilarious. hothyng asks
>>"what does Laila offer other
>>than shouting 'you're gross!' at
>>everyone," and after you give
>>a terrific answer to that
>>question, you turn around and
>>shout "YOU'RE GROSS!!!" at him.

>Are you a dumbass or are you trying to piss me off? (I think its both)

oooooohhhh....scalding. First of all, you know me and I'm neither. I think this board has just gotten too lovey-dovey for your (and my) taste. Did you forget our disagreements?
They're fun ( :-) ), remember them.

ANYWAYS-> utamaroho made a post detailing some of what Laila "offers."

I know. It was really good.

>When does Laila say anyone is "gross?" Again Hotthyng made a >stupid ass post based on his own personal feelings about >UTAMAROHO and NOT the author of the book that UTAMAROHO QUOTED, >AND displace his opinions of UTAMAROHO on the AUTHOR OF THE >BOOK.

Agreed. He was targeting uta and you, in a very real sense. But he DID ask the question, and you DO have an answer (which, like I said, you gave and I thought was terrific).

But...then you turned around and did exactly what he was accusing you of -- even though it was an inappropriate and irrelevant accusation.

He asked if your entire purpose was to call people gross, and you said: "No, there's this and this and this, and even asking this question makes YOU GROSS!!"

See the inconsistency?


I didn't.
>The difference: Most people (of
>whatever belief, culture, etc.) believe
>that their way is RIGHT
>and in some (most?)cases SUPERIOR
>to another.


However when this
>particular group of people IMPOSE

yes. good point.

>If I tell you another way
>to live, then that is

thanks for...

***NOT FORCING ME!!!!!!***

>Come on man
>aw forget it.

Oh, very good. The reliable standby, complete with inherent hypocrisy (if we all "DO" than why are we on this message board) and lack of meaning.

S:"Come on man...DO!"

A: "Oh, I see."

LEFT side of the bedroom, fool!
What?! What?!