just trying to get an idea of how many people, what questions, and where we can go with this.

not even that you have to know anything about the subject, but to have some people scouring the web, or throwing in info that might lead us in the right direction towards some answers would be most helpful.

i was gonna start next monday so that we can look over some questions now, and go gather our books/resources over the weekend, and then come back monday and post our findings. i guess here we can survey the interests and pick and choose which ones we wanna dive into...

mine: what did the ancient egyptians call themselves and their land, and how do we know that? (don't answer now, this is just my interest).
___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

for now:

what was the relationship between ancient egypt and the rest of the continent?

what, if any, were the consistencies in the spiritual systems?

**********THE SIG**********

The point is for us to sit down and make some kind of agreement on some basic things and understand that what is going to be freedom to me, is not necessarily going to be freedom for you. Self-Determination must be a very important part of what We're talking about when We talk about political organization -- political activity -- that has to be underlined because everybody doesn't have the same dream. So, there has to be room for everybody to attempt to move toward that dream, as long as that dream does not include oppressing other people; exploiting other people.
-Assata Shakur

I long for the day when I can go out, eat a raw food breakfast, snack on natural fruit and vegetables, read a book, study and practice a martial art, eat dinner, cultivate my garden, play with my seeds, and rest......
-urbgriot

heck, im in. I've been wondering about the same.
how widespread were the ancient egyptian cultures?

For example, i've seen a documentary that included some ancient maps from the greeks (i think?). The documentary said that the maps were most likely based on the works of the mapmakers from an egyptian city, which was the city of the mapmakers (it was by the Nile, but cant remember what it was called). The map, even if it was "roughly scetched", covered most of the globe as we know it, including the south pole and the american continent. Even up to Queen Maud's land (far up north).

Very much was lost in the library of Alexandria. The map and the theories could be all bogus, nothing but b.s.. But id love to find out more about it

Peace



>what was the relationship between ancient
>egypt and the rest of
>the continent?

Specifically which areas of the continent and the people are you most interested in are you most curious about, in terms of their relationship with Kemet? As you know its a vary large continent, and therefore that is way too much to breakdown in such a broad manner. Give me a target to aim at and ill shoot...

>
>what, if any, were the consistencies
>in the spiritual systems?

The concept of Ma'at was the main consistency in their way of life. Ma'at was the goddess of truth and righteousness, she is pictured as a winged kneeling woman with a feather in her hair, as the feather, or as a standing wingless woman with a feather for a head. She represented the moral aspects of Kemetic life, and when one died, ones heart was weighed on the scales of justice against the feather of Ma'at. Ones heart had to be lighter than the feather in order to gain access to the after life. The concept of Ma'at involved 42 laws to live by, these are called the negative confessions, and these are which the ten commandments come from.

Beside this the other major consitency was the despite what orthodox historians teach, the concept of one great god. In kemet there were many gods, when first examined, hence why most orthodox egyptologists and historians refer to their religion as a polytheism. However when closely examined one finds that indeed it was monotheistic. See the different gods, such as Djehuti(tehuti, hermes, thoth hence the word thought)Heru(horus) Auset(Isis) Ausar(Osiris) Sekhemet, Bes, etc. were all god which represented certain aspects or characteristics of the one great god. The ancient Kemites understood that god was too infinite to be represented in a single physical form, and to make it easier for humans to comprehend the greatness of god, created individuals which represented these aspects and characteristics of the one great god, the characteristics of all that is. So when they praised a lower god, they were just paying tribute or homage to the aspects of the one great god which that lower good represented. The other consistency is the beilief in an after life which I touched apon earlier. Regardless of the period the Kemites believed that your sould survived a physical death and lived on. I stated part of this belief system in dealing with Ma'at.

These are just a few that came immediately to mind, im sure ill think of more later, and when I do ill notify you of them.

I hope this serves as something to start with.

Peace and Blessings

Knowledge is Infinite;Seek and You Shall Find
Every Sage Was Once a Wide Eyed Student

"Facts equal the hard concrete irrefutable truth, and there is only 1 truth but many perceptions of it. Perceptions cannot be taken as facts, only as evidence to possibly support facts at best. The problem lies in the fact that many people are not looking for truth, or facts, but rather what "truth" or "facts" fit best and most comfortably into their world, there is only 1 absolute truth and that cannot be compromised for anything" - LOGiC @ hiphop-elements.com

Akwaaba

I don't want to start a long discussion on it but I think we have to evaluate the connotations of words that we use. I would argue that they (KMT) as well as most traditional Afrikan spiritual systems were neither monotheistic nor polytheistic. I say this because the context of "god" as we know it within the English language, is limited by the culture from which it stems. If we use the term "god" then we can arguably compare the concepts of divinity between the people of KMT (and the rest of Afrika) and the Western World. I would argue that these concepts are significantly different thus we can't accurately label the people of KMT as "monotheistic."

For more discussion see here:
http://www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=3291&forum=DCForumID1&archive=yes

SE wo werE fi na wosankofa a yenkyi.


PEace
solarICE

Still representin' the RED, BLACK & GREEN since 1978!
EFF RED, WHITE, & BLUE*!

Ain't a damn thing changed...

*That includes the Panamanian "dummy government setup by you know who" flag.


***Something to think about***

"if the god of these religions (judaism/christianity/islam) is not above using terrorist tactics to make people believe in Him (and what's the big deal if people do Not believe in Him? God is a egomaniac) then why wouldnt the hardcore followers of these faiths have a tendency to terrorism as well?"- yuckwheat

And one more thing:
I AM NOT UTAMAROHO AND HIS VIEWS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT MINE!!!

I understand that, however since these are terms which people basically universally understand I chose to use them for claritys sake. If we dont use the term "GOD" then what term do you suggest we used. Im all for being as accurate as possible, however sometimes you have to sacrifice that, because the most accurate option isnt always available. I dont want to get into discussing linguistics, because thats a waste of time. I would think everyone understood what I was saying by the terms I used, and if they dont they can ask questions.

Peace and Blessings

is my focus, and why i want to be able to read and write responses from teh primary sources themselves...

to me, there is no reason to translate the information into "english" understanding. the abstract concepts are written in the primary language...so for me, the best way to understad and even to talk about it would be from THAT position. when translating/transliterating into another tongue, the possibilty of conceptual corruption is raised.

we gotta talk about the whole "land of the blacks" thing though.
___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

Yimhotep
I see no problem in using the words NTR and NTRU, i too really think we should avoid using the terms gods and goddesses, b/c most ppl r going to equate them w/ greek gods and goddesses and we sho ain't talkin about that. i think Ra Un Nefer Amen (altho, for some scholars some parts of his work is questionable, there is a lot that's beneficial) coined the term "syntheistic." NTR is a synthesis of an infinite amount of principles, ordering agents, etc. -> NTRU, NTR is a Divine Life Force that is omnipresent (i.e. resides in everything / is a part of everything).

i think we should use MDW NTR when ever possible and explain accordingly, but the "God-concept" does not apply to ancient Kemet (and that does not mean they were atheist either).

A discussion of the differences between the "God-concept" and Traditional Afrikan Spirituality (we can use kemetic spirituality as a case study) would be good. I saw a video tape once when a Sis. R.A. broke these down, if i can ever get a hold of it, i'll transfer the info.

Shemhotep

>I understand that, however since these
>are terms which people basically
>universally understand I chose to
>use them for claritys sake.
>If we dont use the
>term "GOD" then what term
>do you suggest we used.
>Im all for being as
>accurate as possible, however sometimes
>you have to sacrifice that,
>because the most accurate option
>isnt always available. I
>dont want to get into
>discussing linguistics, because thats a
>waste of time. I would
>think everyone understood what I
>was saying by the terms
>I used, and if they
>dont they can ask questions.
>
>
>Peace and Blessings


************
Our limitations are a temporary point
in our growth, as opposed to a finite
and essential quality of our spirit.
-Ra Un Nefer Amen (paraphrased)

i've been saying that for a while..i thing the "god is immanent" post has some stuff in it explaining differences.

when i explain the "god concept" to people using illustrations, they see...hard to do on paper/internet.

definitely a different concept between "god" and "ntr". keep telling people. i'm exhausted now talking to westerners and trying to bridge the conceptual gaps and dealing with all teh preconceived thoughts they have. i'm really gonna have to dive into the glyphs and speak from that orientation...

___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

HTP

>i'm exhausted now talking to
>westerners and trying to bridge
>the conceptual gaps and dealing
>with all teh preconceived thoughts
>they have. i'm really gonna
>have to dive into the
>glyphs and speak from that
>orientation...

Yes, this is very frustrating, like when someone asked you about Afrikan Spirituality but wanted u to box the answer into stuff that's simple, tangible. i equte that to asking me to define the patois (actually it's Twi) word "unnu" in 1 word. I can't. there's no english equivalent, i need 2 and that's what ppl weren't getting in that post. the prob is asking ppl to step outside of a box when they don't realize they are in 1. some ppl don't grasp the concept that the way they think, what they think is their nature is what they've been told and can be unlearnt. man i get tired just reading sometimes, but it's all good i guess.

Shemhotep
************
Our limitations are a temporary point
in our growth, as opposed to a finite
and essential quality of our spirit.
-Ra Un Nefer Amen (paraphrased)

i'm really tired of doing...and now thinking about why i even talk to those kind of people in the first place? even when they are sincerely trying to know...

if a person doesn't realize the reality conditioning, how can they even think they can learn something new? even if they really want to learn, you still gotta wade through all the hours and hours of conditioning they've been through.

sort of like when i was learning to backflip. until i actually "let go" and did it fluidly, i crashed everytime because i was scared of falling. i would analyze the movements so much and stick to calculating, that i never "DID" what my teacher said, and that was to "relax".

people are scared of going into unfamiliar territory and always want to have a lifeline to their way of thought to keep them feeling safe and "grounded". sometimes you have to "empty your cup" before getting new knowledge poured in...

___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

What is the role of the Neter Isis?

what are the similarities between Inanna, Ishtar and Isis? and
what were the cultures that each name belonged?

Peace

Woah, thats a lot of info to list, because they are many similarities. Like I said Auset was the model which many other cultures followed when developing their concept of a great mother. I dont have the time at this moment do type it all, so expect a post regarding it thursday evening. If anyone else has accurate information please feel free to post.

PEACE

Yimhotep
I 2 have been wondering about explanation of the Ausarian myth, i like the explanation in Metu Neter tho'. Also, Isis, Osiris and Horus are greek names or aren't they? b/c i've heard both.
this does not necessarily have to be answered by Infinite.
Shemhotep
************
Our limitations are a temporary point
in our growth, as opposed to a finite
and essential quality of our spirit.
-Ra Un Nefer Amen (paraphrased)

Ausarian...do you mean assurian, assyrian....or is there something else...

I don't know many things by their names, so what is the myth maybe I am familiar with that instead...

As well, it has been rumored that Isis is a greek name, irregardless, ancient egyptians have also used that name

Yimhotep
>Ausarian...do you mean assurian, assyrian....or is
>there something else...

By Ausarian i mean Ausarian, or ASRian. according to my understanding Osiris=ASR (or Ausar), Isis=AST(or Auset) and Horus=HRU(or Heru). This is, according to my understanding, The First Trinity, Father Mother Son. Auset is the Black Madonna worshipped in several places b4 she was ousted in favor of the "Holy Spirit." There are similarities between her story and that of the Virgin Mary. There is a myth that Heru avenged the death of his father Ausar by his uncle Set. It is said that Set representing disorder and chaos is where the words Satan/Shaitan come from.

Shemhotep
************
Our limitations are a temporary point
in our growth, as opposed to a finite
and essential quality of our spirit.
-Ra Un Nefer Amen (paraphrased)

hmmm interesting sounds very similar to stories of Innanna/Ishtar...

as well, it has been said that tammuz/horus are where JC's myth comes from

>it has been
>said that tammuz/horus are where
>JC's myth comes from



Peace

Yes indeed it has, and indeed he is. Just some of the similarities are the following: Jesus performed the miracle of turning five loaves of bread in one case and seven in another to feed the many multitudes of people. This ties in with Horus who makes seven loaves of bread for Osiris to live by. Yashua is in the desert and being tempted by the Devil, who said to him, “If he was the son of God, turn a stone into bread.” The stone of the desert is symbolic of Set. As the child Horus comes to the Earth, then enters matter or becomes flesh. He is born as the word of his father who becomes Seb, who consort is Nu whose other name is Meri. Which is the same as Jesus coming down to Earth as the word of God in the flesh having and adopted father of Joseph (Seb) and Mary his mother. Jesus said “I and the father are one. He that seeth me, seeth him that sent me.” Horus is the father seen in the son. Jesus claims to be the son in whom the father is revealed. Horus was the light of the world. The light that is represented by the symbolic eye. The son of salvation. Yashua is called the ‘Good Sheperd’ with the lamb or kid on his shoulder. Horus was the good shepherd who carries the crook upon his shoulder. Jesus is called the Lamb of God, the bread of life, the truth and the light. Horus is called the Lamb of God, the bread of life, the truth and the light. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist. Horus is was baptized by Anupp the Baptizer. Jesus was born in Bethlehem, the ‘House of Bread.’ Horus was born in Annu, the ‘Place of Bread.’ Jesus the Christ. Horus the Krist. The star in the east that indicated the birthplace of Jesus. The star, as announcer of the child Horus.
The blind man given sight by Jesus. The blind mummy made to see by Horus. Jesus walking on water. Horus walking on water .

In fact the entire christian trinity and their story comes from the Kemetic trinity of Ausar Auset and Heru, and their story.

PEACE

>By Ausarian i mean Ausarian, or
>ASRian. according to my understanding
>Osiris=ASR (or Ausar), Isis=AST(or Auset)
>and Horus=HRU(or Heru). This
>is, according to my understanding,
>The First Trinity, Father Mother
>Son. Auset is the
>Black Madonna worshipped in several
>places b4 she was ousted
>in favor of the "Holy
>Spirit." There are similarities
>between her story and that
>of the Virgin Mary.
>There is a myth that
>Heru avenged the death of
>his father Ausar by his
>uncle Set. It is
>said that Set representing disorder
>and chaos is where the
>words Satan/Shaitan come from.

Yes this is true, however the words Satan and Shaitan have deeper meanings and origins than that. Their origins are big secrets and I cannot get into that however, research the Nuwuabians teachings reagarding them, to find out more information. Besides the Obvious, Set also represents ones lower self, the Kemites believed that each person had set within them, and that our duty was to master and defeat set within ourselves, and live rightously. This is why your high priests(remember this thos of you who study the story of Hiram Abif) would pray at noon, because during that time of day, man casts his smallest shadow, and ones shadow is symbolic to set. However without darkness there can be no light. Rembmer this duality.

PEACE

Peace

Yes Isis, Horus and Osiris are all the names the greeks gave the Kemetic Neteru. Their real names are Auset, Heru, and Ausar. Did you say you wanted the Ausarian myth in Mdw Ntr? Is that what you were asking for? If so I can do that, but really, what would be the point. Confirm thats what you want and ill write it in Mdw Ntr, but you should just get get a copy of the Book of Comming forth by day from night Papyrus of Ani(Egyptian book of the dead).

PEACE

Yimhotep

when i say MDW NTR, i mean either the language or the book written by J. Carruthers, generally i'll say by, J.C. so u'll know that's what i mean, when i said Metu Neter i was referring to the book by Ra Un Nefer Amen (i guess i should have said that). so when i said "i like the explanation in Metu Neter" i meant just that, not i _would_ like the explanation in MDW NTR, feel me? what is the meaning of the scattering? was it 14 pieces? what's the significance of 14? Did AST's sister help her? Also are there any translations of the the Book of Coming Forth By Day From Night by African scholars?

I've heard that it is a misconception that Kemites practised incest, that is, they used the owrd "sister" and brother" much the way we do now, how if Uta and YAH were to get married, Uta might say "i married my sister YAH" even tho' they are not sis and bro literally. this was just an e.g. folks, i'm pretty sure YAH's married already and the likelihood of this happening even if she weren't is slim to none. that's another question i hope we can answer.


Shemhotep


>Peace
>
>Yes Isis, Horus and Osiris are
>all the names the greeks
>gave the Kemetic Neteru.
>Their real names are Auset,
>Heru, and Ausar. Did you
>say you wanted the Ausarian
>myth in Mdw Ntr? Is
>that what you were asking
>for? If so I can
>do that, but really, what
>would be the point. Confirm
>thats what you want and
>ill write it in Mdw
>Ntr, but you should just
>get get a copy of
>the Book of Comming forth
>by day from night Papyrus
>of Ani(Egyptian book of the
>dead).
>
>PEACE


************
Our limitations are a temporary point
in our growth, as opposed to a finite
and essential quality of our spirit.
-Ra Un Nefer Amen (paraphrased)

PEACE

Auset(Isis) was the wife of Ausar(Osiris)and mother of Heru(Horus). Whe Ausar was killed and his body parts scattered aross the four corners of the globe she gathered them up, except for his phallus and resurrected him. She was the original virgin who gave birth, and was the mold which every other culture coppied. She is viewed as the great mother, who gaves birth to all things. She is the model for the black maddona, and she is viewed very highly by your secret societies and mystery systems.

PEACE

Knowledge is Infinite;Seek and You Shall Find
Every Sage Was Once A Wide Eyed Student

I'm down

My question is similar to Uta's. What is the defenition of KMT. If it does mean Land of the Blacks, then what is the difference between that and 'The Black Land' (the so called after life). I have some other questions I just can't formulate them at this time.

PEACE

> What is the defenition
>of KMT.

Kmt or Kemet does translate roughly to "land of the blacks".


>If it
>does mean Land of the
>Blacks, then what is the
>difference between that and 'The
>Black Land' (the so called
>after life).

The term Kemet when translated to "land of the blacks" refers to the physical properties of the people of that land, hence the name. Although I have never heard of the afterlife refered to as "the black land" it undoubtably is a spiritual afterlife, one not dealing with a physical appearance. The Kemetic civilization was one heavily intertwined with nature. An example of this is that all temples were built on the eastern banks of the nile, while all tombs were built on the western shores. This is because the sun (which has many symbolic meanings both on a spiritual and mystery system level), rises in the east, and it sets in the west. The sun was the life giver, as well as the light bringer, light is symbolic to life and knowledge, as well as other things. The sun when put into a human perspective was born in the east each day, and died in the west each day, only to be resurrected, much like the resurrection of Osiris, the next day in the east again. Hence why temples where intiates where taught, gods were worshipped, and people lived, were on the eastern banks of the nile, while the tombs of the dead were on the west , in the "dark land" per-se. This is just a small fraction of the meaning, and philosophy, I would have to get heavily into the mystery system, more heavily than most here would want to bring more clarity. However if you wish, I will, but thats an entirely different topic as well.

Peace and Blessings

Knowledge is Infinite;Seek and You Shall Find
Every Sage Was Once a Wide Eyed Student

Yimhotep
>, I would have to get heavily into the mystery system, more >heavily than most here would want to bring more clarity. >However if you wish, I will, but thats an entirely different >topic as well.

r u allowed to do that as an initiate? i mean doesn't that spoil the whole idea of "Mystery"?

Shemhotep

************
Our limitations are a temporary point
in our growth, as opposed to a finite
and essential quality of our spirit.
-Ra Un Nefer Amen (paraphrased)

The duty of those who know is to teach. Its as simple as that. Email me and we will talk.

PEACE

i'm in...

i have tons of questions of/about ancient egypt/KMT..the first being, like uta and peace mentioned, how did the name kemet originate, and how do we know that?..

many more questions will follow..but im definitely down..
peace
sdhiphop

"imma dreadhead rappin//along with the song on dead prez track ten//perfecto!, the tightest herbivore you never heard before.."-perfecto 'dreaded funk'

========================================

“That don’t mean shit. That’s a system that those who own us use. They make us famous and give us names, ‘the king of this’, ‘the count of that’, ‘the duke of what?’ We die broke anyhow..”-Charles Mingus on music.

I'm definitely in... One.

Peace, Hotep, Raahuabaat

Im definitely down to contribute to this. Just to let everyone know a little about myself and my knowledge in regards to this topic, im currently in my 12th year of research regarding Kemet as well as other topics and civilizations. I began studying egyptology at age 8 under Dr. Jacob Caruthers at the Kemetic Institute in Chicago. Im now 20 and have continued those studies throughout my life. I read, speak and write Mdw Ntr, and am an initiate of the mystery system as well as other orders and nations. I offer myself, my resources, and what I know to any who are scencerely interested in seeking the truth.

Peace and Blessings to All

Shemhotep
Wadu

i'm trying to invite some of the faculty from Brown University to participaet as well as some brothers from Morehouse, and a teacher from Morris Brown.
___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

i'm in...studying it here at pc, i'll offer all the knowledge i have

Keyshawn:
1200+ yards
12 TD's
80+ catches

peace, inf....can u hit me up w/some info about the institute? i helped my girl last week with a paper about ancient egypt and i'm really fascinated. so count me in y'all.


love and light


jboogiebrown@blackvoices.com

The Kemetic Institute is chartered through Northeastern Illinois University, and is located in their Center for Inner City Studies on 700 E. Oakwood Blvd. Chicago,Illinois 60653. Dr. Caruthers no longer actively teaches classes, he retired from teaching this year. However classes are still taught by those who studied under him, and he still teaches a class here and there. He remains on staff, concentrating on his research, lecturing and his writings.

did you study the procedure of how the hieroglyphs were deciphered in the first place, or did you just learn them...i tried the second way, but something kept bothering me. now it's on to breaking down the processes used in going from the rosetta stone and slowly walking up till the present...

___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

Peace

I learnd first how they were deciphered, then i learned how to read and write them. Then I learned how to speak the language.

Power Equality

___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

that's how you were blowin cats outta the water on that other post :)

_________________________________________________________
*moment of silence for all those lost & those yet to be found*

Yeah, if thats what you wanna call it. I wasnt trying to, I was just sharing some information because people seemed like they wanted to know. Kemet is just one subject of many that I am well versed in.

PEACE

I was just being silly.

but I am glad you could shed some light on the situation

_________________________________________________________
*moment of silence for all those lost & those yet to be found*

Yimhotep
I'm so jealous. i had the wonderful opportunity of meeting "Jake from Chicago" during an ASCAC conference 2 summers ago, unfortunately i haven't made it to the Kemetic Institute, but work w/ some of his colleagues at my institution who are ASCAC members. Could you send us some of the information by Sis. RKHTY AMEN? would be greatly appreciated.

I'm in of course.
Shemhotep
>Peace, Hotep, Raahuabaat
>
>Im definitely down to contribute to
>this. Just to let everyone
>know a little about myself
>and my knowledge in regards
>to this topic, im currently
>in my 12th year of
>research regarding Kemet as well
>as other topics and civilizations.
> I began studying egyptology
>at age 8 under Dr.
>Jacob Caruthers at the Kemetic
>Institute in Chicago. Im
>now 20 and have continued
>those studies throughout my life.
> I read, speak and
>write Mdw Ntr, and am
>an initiate of the mystery
>system as well as other
>orders and nations. I
>offer myself, my resources, and
>what I know to any
>who are scencerely interested in
>seeking the truth.
>
>Peace and Blessings to All
>
>Shemhotep
>Wadu


************
Our limitations are a temporary point
in our growth, as opposed to a finite
and essential quality of our spirit.
-Ra Un Nefer Amen (paraphrased)

Interests (super-broad):

relationship between KMT and Kush/Nubia

changing status of whites in KMT throughout its history

relationship between KMT/Kush and Sub-Saharan Africa

pre-dynastic KMT (when agriculture first popped up)

And many many more

---------
PISS AND BLESSINGS
Alex
------

"I have never felt less American and
more New Yorker...than these past
days." Suheir Hammad

Galaxy raaaaaays...
POWERFUL!

I'm definitely interested. I have been studying the Metu Neter for a while and other sources as well. Any knowledge or insight I have I will readily contribute. I'm also interested in gaining from all the Okayminds.

Peace

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own"
--Paulo Coelho, "The Alchemist"

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix" (and a Buddhist philosophy)

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

Peace
whassup okayplayers.. I'm kinda new around here... I used to check ya'll out a while back then I ended up taking a break from the internet.. Anyway... I like the idea of doing something interesting like research & would be glad to help... My main interest is Egyptian art...
Another interest would be hieroglyphs... (the way I look at it is that hieroglyphs are a form of art...) Utamaroho or anyone else you can email me at blackfists@aol.com or just inbox me....

Peace & Blessings
B.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own"
--Paulo Coelho, "The Alchemist"

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix" (and a Buddhist philosophy)

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

I'm down.

Books:

anything by Cheikh Anta Diop, Charles Finch, Asa Hilliard,
John Henrik Clarke, etc


Questions:

1) Ancient KMT :-) had a system similar to feng-shui called ka-lei. Where can I find more information about it?

2) Did KMT have any fighting/self-defense systems? If so, what are they?

since these seem to be the only threads that i can't pass up.

interests?

* pre-dynastic (Ta-Seti) times and nubian civilization. what was able to be found out prior to the flooding caused by the Aswan dam? are there any aquatic archeologists currently excavating the sites?

* info on the so-called mystery schools, including practical and esoteric knowledge, and how both can be applied to modern times.

* compilation of a list of "trusted"/"verifiable" sources on kemetology. i think its important to delineate what is known and provable vs. supposition. it kinda hurts the cause when cats bandwagon with a lot of wild speculation, a la, they could levitate buildings by singing in harmony. i'm open minded, but that type of statement is much different than saying we know for certain that they had a complex grasp of mathematics and taught them, as evidenced by problems found on the rhind(?) papyrus. nahmean?

* can anyone find the actual presentation that Dr's Obenga and Diop did at UNESCO in '74? i wonder if there was video or audio tape?

* discuss practical applications (i'm repeating myself, i know, but this is important). how can we build on that knowledge and apply it in day to day. for instance, in any article that i write i make it plain that there's no such thing as a pythagorean theorem, and that hippocrates plagiarized the writings and scholarship of imhotep who predated him by centuries.

that's enough. good idea, U.

peace & blessings,

x.


January is Kool Keith quote month, for lack of anything else:

"I never hearda you stupid, what's your name man??"

"Rappers don't know, I'm out the hospital/
cold buggin' and illin' like Dr. Doolittle"

"I'll chew your ass like monkeys on Wild Kingdom"

"you call yourself GOD, can you make it rain?/
can you tell me now what I'm thinkin' in my brain?"

"under your arms, you're kickin power and musty"

"word to mom, I'm in my own world.../
galaxy raaaaaays... powerful"

damn yo! you took alot of the words right outta my brain...

especially the pics thing...i was gonna get a scanner by monday and link to the glyphs that make up what i'm interested in.

___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

HTP

What you have down there is of utmost importance to me: Application. It won't be good enough for me to just be able to look @ all the info we've compiled and say "gee, we sure were/are smart!" and then move on. Definitely it's about Sankofa 4 me, what lessons are we going to take from the past to get us out of our present predicament. My professor suggests that then (and we talked about this X (xenophilia)) we did not know the nature of the european, i believe now we have sufficent experience in dealings with white consciousess not to make the same mistakes our ancestors did. At the same time, i think we have to look at what we were doing right, and go back to that. I personally am looking for a "Weheme Mesu": a renaissance, a reclaiming of Our Way.

so for me i done know seh the egyptians were Black, Diop did melanin dosage tests, we have eyewitness a/cs so i'm not really looking to prove this anymore b/c u won't be able to convince ppl who r not open to it.

I'm really looking for how our ppl did everyday things too, not everyone was a Sage, there were regular ppl w/ marital probs and raising children etc., i mean some things are timeless, i'd like for us to reject western ways of dealing w/ these everyday things b/c they don't work for us (and prolly don't work for them either). i want us to remember that we did things from a different place (Maat, not capitalism) and that place works better for us.

So when i ask "do u think courtship and marriage is a viable alternative for us?" what i should really ask is how we as ppl living in a western society can adapt our ways of old to our current situation. So if we had family taking care of things before and now we have situations where some of us don't have family, what do we do? So if we could integrate these kinds of questions, questions of application to the here and now, that would be good.

Enough of me.

BTW: X i read one of your articles quite good!

>* info on the so-called mystery
>schools, including practical and esoteric
>knowledge, and how both can
>be applied to modern times.
>* discuss practical applications (i'm repeating
>myself, i know, but this
>is important). how can we
>build on that knowledge and
>apply it in day to
>day. for instance, in any
>article that i write i
>make it plain that there's
>no such thing as a
>pythagorean theorem, and that hippocrates
>plagiarized the writings and scholarship
>of imhotep who predated him
>by centuries.
>
>that's enough. good idea, U.
>
>peace & blessings,
>
>x.

Shemhotep
************
Our limitations are a temporary point
in our growth, as opposed to a finite
and essential quality of our spirit.
-Ra Un Nefer Amen (paraphrased)

peace & blessings,

x.

>* can anyone find the actual
>presentation that Dr's Obenga and
>Diop did at UNESCO in
>'74? i wonder if there
>was video or audio tape?

I just recently discovered Diop. So far I've read his "Origins of Matriarchy and Patriarchy" (I'm paraphrasing...i forget the exact title) & I think his works are an excellent source of information.

_________________________________________________________
*moment of silence for all those lost & those yet to be found*

studying the NTR, and art, etc., will require some pics. i think it would be too much to ask of OKP, so we could probably get a free site and link to it from our discussions, and use it also to archive information and provide a standing collection of resources (be they books, sites, whatever).

peace & blessings,

x.


January is Kool Keith quote month, for lack of anything else:

"I never hearda you stupid, what's your name man??"

"Rappers don't know, I'm out the hospital/
cold buggin' and illin' like Dr. Doolittle"

"I'll chew your ass like monkeys on Wild Kingdom"

"you call yourself GOD, can you make it rain?/
can you tell me now what I'm thinkin' in my brain?"

"under your arms, you're kickin power and musty"

"word to mom, I'm in my own world.../
galaxy raaaaaays... powerful"

Perhaps some of us could donate Web page/Web space to put up some images for a period of time. It would help the discussion. I have some Web space I am not using and I have lots of ancient Egytptian graphical references.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own"
--Paulo Coelho, "The Alchemist"

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix" (and a Buddhist philosophy)

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

http://users.ntr.net/~selliott/

until then, i'll donate this space...time to redesign. ( i'm gonna miss you little buddy :( )

___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

I can easily create 30mb accounts (one should be enough in the beginning) at a free norwegian webhost. No ad banners or attempts to stop linking to images, like tripod does. And you get FTP and a pop3 email account..

http://home.no.net/kmt (the "kmt" username is available)

The account is active within an hour or less, and no email is required to sign up

always interested in learning something new


_________________________________________________________
*moment of silence for all those lost & those yet to be found*

"We are what we behold and we behold what we are"

of the mountains of the moon, where god hapi dwells"

from the papyrus of Hunefer {1}, {2}

the egyptians consistently traced their origins to the south towards the twin sources of the nile (NTR Hapi), in central east africa (Uganda and Kenya, where the mountains of the moon are located). the egyptians were very clear in where they came from. AHA/menes/narmer unified the 'upper' and 'lower' egypt's two kingdoms, giving rise to the dynastic era btw 3,500 - 3,150bce, depending on the timeline used, but at the time they clearly had attained a high degree of civilization. artifacts relating to the ta-seti culture that both preceded egyptian culture and flourished beside it were being uncovered up until president Nasser of Egypt had the Aswan dam created (it provided power for the modernization of present day egypt, but flooded the ancestral homelands and archeological sites of the nubian people).
{1}, {3}


in ancient times, though the egyptians/kemetans migrated northward from nubia, they maintained cultural affinities with their neighbor and kin to the south (despite the fact that they went to war on occassion, with each other). in several instances, conquest (or re-conquest) of kmt from the south led to a rennaissance of egyptian high culture.



i'm not with my books, so the above is paraphrased, however, you can find the info easily from these sources (which in turn, list the primary sources)...


1. "From Abu Simbel to Giza" Dr. Yosef Ben-Jocannon
2. "Nile Valley Contributions...." Anthony Browder
3. "African Origins of Civilization: Myth or Reality" Dr. Cheikh Ante Diop


furthermore, Diop (having been a consummate linguist) provides compelling evidence for the linguistic relationship between the language of KMT and those of several contemporary eastern and western african tongues, including his native Wolof.

why is all of this important to know? because, at the height of european colonialism and slavery, european "scholars" systematically attempted to obliterate the historical record of egypt as an african civilization, using all manner of absurd contrivances like "hamitics", "brown caucasians", "red caucasians", etc., to mask the truth. this was necessary because

a. their inhuman treatment of africans could not coexist with their professed religion unless africans were considered sub-human, pagan, barbarian

b. while they claimed as the basis of their entire civilization the greco-roman classical era, the greeks readily admitted their cultural debt to the egyptians in the areas of civilization for which they were most renowned (math, science, medicine, philosophy, not to mention other influences in art).

c. previous european scholars, prior to identifying egypt as an african civilization (or sometimes in spite of) correctly pointed out the links

d. if africans, at one point (we'll forget european denial of the great west african empires) represented the pinnacle of human civilization, they must have been human, and their mistreatment would have been a sin in the eyes of their god



peace & blessings,

x.

just one question, in regards to the timeline...was it between 3500 bc and 3150 bc, or more precisely 3100bc and 2700 bc...

"We are what we behold and we behold what we are"

While western man believes that he got his culture from rome and greece, greek philosphers themselves have written repeatedly that they had drawn on earlier sources...

In 1799 Napolean arrived in egypt to study and explain teh pyramids...after his officers went trifling around egypt they found a rosetta slab which had on it carved a proclamtion in heiro's from 196bc as well as in two other scripts...(this also shows that egypt was a trading place of sorts a busy city, so busy with the influx of foreigners their slabs were also writtenin diffrent scripts)

this dating of this slab, proved to napoleanand the world at teh time that Egyot existed way before teh advent of teh greek civilization...

Egyptian records speak of dynasties that began circa 3100BC, two full millenia before the beginning of teh hellenic civilization...

It would seem to others that our civilization began in egypt...however going back to greek scholars and philosophers, while they describe visist to egypt...they however speak of another place where they got theuir ancient knowledge from...

The pre-hellenic cultures of teh aegean sea...the minoan on teh island of crete and Mycenaean on the greek mainland...reveal evidence that the near eastern, not the egyptians, culture had been adopted....Syria and Anatolia, not egypt werethe avenues through which and earlier civilization became available to the greeks...

There are numerous similarities that stand as proof of this...for example the alphabet of the greeks vs. the hebrew aleph bait...

greek hebrew
alpha aleph
beta bait
gamma gimmel
delta dalet
e(psilon) he
vau vau-waw
zeta zayin
(H)eta Heth
theta teth
iota yode- (these two are what scholars would claim to be comparable to the english i or y, but note are consonants not vowels so therefore are often mistranslated)

kappa khaph
lambda lamed
mu mem
nu nun
samekh xi
o(nicron) ayion
Pi pe
san sade
koppa koph
rho resh
sigma shin
tau tav-taw....

based on these similarities, scholars date semitic culture to before egyptian culture....not only does it put semetic language before egyptian culture, but it shows that the greeks also adopted their culture from a semetic pre-deccesor

but they are the names of the different letters and their greek similar beside them...

As well, how their names aren't the only thing taht is similar it is the writing as well...

Which if put side by side...it would be hard to tel any differences...

can we go back to answering specifically questions #102 or #106 please?


___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

Be sure that you slow down and read and understand what it is atht I have written, because when I start tying it al together, I don't want you to get lost...

"We are what we behold and we behold what we are"

I notice you mentioning it later in this post...

as far as I've seen, no one is claiming that Egypt/Kemet was the "first" civilization...it's study is important because of its centrality in the development of African and early world civilization.

i made this post some time ago...maybe the responses would be helpful:

http://www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=2237&forum=DCForumID1&archive=yes

_________________________________________________________
*moment of silence for all those lost & those yet to be found*

I never said anyone made that comment on the message board, teh comment has been made before and is held by many... who don't even have the internet, so I want to know, if that belief is held, then what proof is there..?

Akwaaba

And there is proof that it wasn't.

moving on...

SE wo werE fi na wosankofa a yenkyi.


PEace
solarICE

Still representin' the RED, BLACK & GREEN since 1978!
EFF RED, WHITE, & BLUE*!

Ain't a damn thing changed...

*That includes the Panamanian "dummy government setup by you know who" flag.


***Something to think about***

"if the god of these religions (judaism/christianity/islam) is not above using terrorist tactics to make people believe in Him (and what's the big deal if people do Not believe in Him? God is a egomaniac) then why wouldnt the hardcore followers of these faiths have a tendency to terrorism as well?"- yuckwheat

And one more thing:
I AM NOT UTAMAROHO AND HIS VIEWS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT MINE!!!

where did they get their knowledge from...where did tehy adopt their culture from...

it is not pictoral, so it could not have come from egypt like most people claim...

most people claim taht the greeks got their civilization from the egyptians...but their writings are different...
on is pictoral and another more similar to a latin mesopotamian writing....

There is a reason why everyone else took the time to think of their question(s) and place them in one respnse...it's called FOCUS. The reason i bring this to your attention is because within these study groups, FOCUS, and PATIENCE are tools that will have to be used in order to facilitate effective communication.

seriously. why are you the only one that did that? "focus" and "patience"...remember those words.
___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

There are specific even...why do you want me to stop asking questions, can you even answer them?
Or is it that you can't answer them....I would love to be apart of this study group because I possess inforamtion that I know we would all like to study...
Why are you so afraid of someone else, spreading knowledge...if you truly believe what you say and know it to be truth then you should have no fear of what knowledge I possess or fear of answering my questions...

Now should you????

your ?s into one response.
there's really no reason to have a separate post for each question.

**********THE SIG**********

The point is for us to sit down and make some kind of agreement on some basic things and understand that what is going to be freedom to me, is not necessarily going to be freedom for you. Self-Determination must be a very important part of what We're talking about when We talk about political organization -- political activity -- that has to be underlined because everybody doesn't have the same dream. So, there has to be room for everybody to attempt to move toward that dream, as long as that dream does not include oppressing other people; exploiting other people.
-Assata Shakur

I long for the day when I can go out, eat a raw food breakfast, snack on natural fruit and vegetables, read a book, study and practice a martial art, eat dinner, cultivate my garden, play with my seeds, and rest......
-urbgriot

Well specifically, they are all different questions which may have different answers from different readers, to avoid people from simply skimming over and therefore giving me a blind side to possible new information from other heads...therefore I post separate questions so that I can get separate responses...

I just wanna learn, if that's how I learn, why is it such a problem...especially since I may have separate specific questions which depending on how people answer may not have anything to do with the other...

precisely why I posted that way, because Uta is not serious about this quest, he has proven consistently that while he may type like he cares about searching for truth, but at the very most he proves taht his search is only to exalt his own knowledge in areas...

He does not welcome an opposing opinion and despite his idiosyncracies, he is very much the leader of a majority opinion...I am not the majority and my quest is for truth in ALL things...therefore I cannot merely sit idly by and watch people such as those of you on this board constantly get caught up in one thing...when it is more than obvious that thing is not the Alpha nor was it the omega...

Therefore I post and I post regardless of what Uta can say or anyone else...unless you all have truly done the research that you claim to have done, and it is evident that you have not since you still hold the opinions of some of the books that you have read, I will continue to post and ask for the proof which you all have askled me for and I have given...

It is time to break out of the ocnditioning that you have learned in this country's schools and search for a right overstanding of all things...

Simply put, one who has the very society to thank for his/her life and the truths that he/she knows, yet still holds hate and prejudice towards people and that same society without seeing truth is inherently blind and will remain so...

uta is not the only one on this post!

why not address INFINITE, maybe he and his studies are on a level that you respect...i don't know
personally, i have read a little about ancient egypt, but i want to learn more and i see this post as a good opportunity
if i share something and it can be refuted - fine, i care about truth or at least having different people's insight around me so i can think and decide for my self what to go with

do we all need an "I AM NOT UTA" disclaimer before we can post?


**********THE SIG**********

The point is for us to sit down and make some kind of agreement on some basic things and understand that what is going to be freedom to me, is not necessarily going to be freedom for you. Self-Determination must be a very important part of what We're talking about when We talk about political organization -- political activity -- that has to be underlined because everybody doesn't have the same dream. So, there has to be room for everybody to attempt to move toward that dream, as long as that dream does not include oppressing other people; exploiting other people.
-Assata Shakur

I long for the day when I can go out, eat a raw food breakfast, snack on natural fruit and vegetables, read a book, study and practice a martial art, eat dinner, cultivate my garden, play with my seeds, and rest......
-urbgriot

I addressed everyone with my questions, uta addressed me and then I proceeded as a counter action to address him...

(sorry yall, but i'm tired of this shit!)

Do yall remember the post when heru came on and said he was simply "going on a pilgrimage to Kemet?" I think those were his exact words in the subject line...And do you also remember Halleluyah's response: "why go to Kemet? why not to the original land?" ??? Yall remember that one? All he said was "I'm going to Kemet" which warranted no attack what-so-ever! Yet and still, she was the only one coming off like that...(contention 1)

i say this to you Halleluyah, because i've noticed and i KNOW i'm not the only one) that the questions you post are antagonistic in their spirit, here are some examples from this thread:

>>If egypt is not the first civilization, why do you stop there to get all yoru knowledge

sounds antagonistic. has nothing to do with anything productive.(contention 2)

>>As a "scholar" have you researched the similarities between "
Shumerian texts and egyptian texts?
are you aware of which civilization came first?
Do you know along teh timeline of civilization and culture, where the egyptians lay?

this seems to be directed at the original poster, (since no one mentioned it ini the thread)., and also soounds antagonistic.

>>what proof is there taht egypt or kmt was thefirst civilization?"

sounds (or is just worded) antogonistically.

>>Who is cro-magnon man?"
How long did it take for man to evolve from ape to hominid
to homo erectus
to homo sapien?

WTF? this is pretty obvious...TOTALLY irrelevant to anything.(contention 3)

in conclusion...

EVEYBODY else asked questions geared towards learning. Why are you the only one that didn't? Kinda shows your true colors if you ask me. Just do me a favor and stop wasting our collective time and board space.

I'm through with you...



___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

Now we are getting into reading into words....man sounds like you have a hard case of assumption...

you need to stop that, I really can't see how someone who claims to be so learned can make so many assumptions...what is wrong with you....

Get past your self...my questions are to everyone, not to be antagonistic but to get at the truth...
who I am I antagonizing, it can't be the people who want to know the truth it must be the people then who want to hide the truth,
they are the only people that can get as mad as you get about this,

You're so mad you don't even know what to do, you'r eprayingh your cursing, you are slewing names...and that's what you always do,

truth is you can't even debate without cursing or slewing a name at me or with anyone...instead you rip through and overview and post only to exalt your own self...come off taht high horse...I've asked you Solarus, udjat blue tiger and everyone else who wants to challenge me....to share your precious information and debate with me on these topics, but you have not done so, using excuses like I don't have the time or try harder...sounding much like the very european people taht you all claim to despise....

So, let this be an example of how immature, childish and how escapist you are....

please, try harder...

Peace

Look I dont know either of you, nor am I familiar with your beef. However I dont need to be to say what im about to say. Both of you are wasting valuable time and energy bickering back and forth with each other like children over something which really has nothing to do with this topic. You're arguing will solve nothing, simply squash the non essential issues and discuss something with relevance like this topic. There's no need nor room for stuff like that, leave the negativity behind, its counterproductive. Both of you seem to be intelligent individuals, stop wasting that intelligence on finding bigger words you can use to insult one another and use it to build.

Peace and Blessings to ALL!

___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

Akwaaba

I would like to know. And while you are at it could you please respond to this post:

Solarus
Oct-01-01, 11:16 PM (EST)
108. "To HalleluYAH"
Akwaaba
I'm finally getting a chance to respond. Halleluyah, your argument is extremely weak and nonsensical. You say that there is a difference between "KMT" and "Egypt" but as Infinite pointed out, this is only a game of semantics as essentially they both refer to the same thing. Now if you are making the argument that the people of old KMT were not the enslavers but rather the "greek migrators," this also makes little sense.

"eypgtians- burnt face people, because of their white skin being burned by the sun, "

When does this come from? You make it seem like the people of KMT simply vanished from the face of the Earth and the Greeks moved en masse to the land of KMT. Where does this information come from? Seriously this makes no sense.

Now for the next part: You said
"the timelines of the enslavement and the timeline of kmtian culture, when they began compare that to the days of Avraham, for you see that is when teh kmtians existed,
teh isarelites were enslaved some 4 to fuive hundred years later..."

When exactly is the time of Avraham? Because when looking a the Egyptian timeline Greek (Macedonian) rule of Egypt through the army of the Alexander the Macedonian, began in 332 BCE with the Ptolemaic dynasty officially beginning around 305 BCE. So if the "Egyptians" were "Greek migrators" as you say, then the "Israelites" must have been in Egypt during this time. Now Going by the 430 year period of the Israelite enslavement in Egypt(Exodus 12:40 KJV: Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years),
the Exodus would have occurred sometime after the European Common Era which marks the birth of Jesus/Yahshua/Issa around 10 BCE- 0 CE (usually being 0 CE). Besides historical records tell us that the Exodus DEFINITELY did not occur during the common era. And to be precise the 430 year period plus the 332 BCE of Greek rule of Egypt would place the Exodus around 162 CE or the second century when Christianity had already begun to be established.

SE wo werE fi na wosankofa a yenkyi.


PEace
solarICE

Thank You

Still representin' the RED, BLACK & GREEN since 1978!
EFF RED, WHITE, & BLUE*!

Ain't a damn thing changed...

*That includes the Panamanian "dummy government setup by you know who" flag.


***Something to think about***

"if the god of these religions (judaism/christianity/islam) is not above using terrorist tactics to make people believe in Him (and what's the big deal if people do Not believe in Him? God is a egomaniac) then why wouldnt the hardcore followers of these faiths have a tendency to terrorism as well?"- yuckwheat

And one more thing:
I AM NOT UTAMAROHO AND HIS VIEWS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT MINE!!!

>>Now Going by the 430 year period of the Israelite enslavement in Egypt(Exodus 12:40 KJV: Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years),
the Exodus would have occurred sometime after the European Common Era which marks the birth of Jesus/Yahshua/Issa around 10 BCE- 0 CE (usually being 0 CE).

read this again and explain WHY it would've occured after the common era? my understanding is that you are saying 430 is the time dwelt there...how does the time that that they dwelt there establish what part in the timeline they were there?





___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

Akwaaba

"read this again and explain WHY it would've occured after the common era? my understanding is that you are saying 430 is the time dwelt there...how does the time that that they dwelt there establish what part in the timeline they were there?"

According to HalleluYAH's post they were there during "greek-rule." Well according to current knowledge, Greek rule began after the invasion of Alexander the Macedonian, which occurred in 305 BCE. THe point is that apparently HalleluYAH has another timeline in mind when she says "greek rule" and I'm trying to discern what that is.

SE wo werE fi na wosankofa a yenkyi.


PEace
solarICE

Still representin' the RED, BLACK & GREEN since 1978!
EFF RED, WHITE, & BLUE*!

Ain't a damn thing changed...

*That includes the Panamanian "dummy government setup by you know who" flag.


***Something to think about***

"if the god of these religions (judaism/christianity/islam) is not above using terrorist tactics to make people believe in Him (and what's the big deal if people do Not believe in Him? God is a egomaniac) then why wouldnt the hardcore followers of these faiths have a tendency to terrorism as well?"- yuckwheat

And one more thing:
I AM NOT UTAMAROHO AND HIS VIEWS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT MINE!!!

if greek rule started around 305 BCE and the hebrews wandered around for a 430 year period in Egypt, as said in:

(Exodus 12:40 KJV: Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years),

that would mean the "exodus" would've occured around 162 CE. right?

But that would place it "AFTER" christianity itself was supposedly started?!?

how can that be Solarus?


___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

Akwaaba

SHe should have the answer. I'm trying to figure out what she is talking about.

SE wo werE fi na wosankofa a yenkyi.


PEace
solarICE

Still representin' the RED, BLACK & GREEN since 1978!
EFF RED, WHITE, & BLUE*!

Ain't a damn thing changed...

*That includes the Panamanian "dummy government setup by you know who" flag.


***Something to think about***

"if the god of these religions (judaism/christianity/islam) is not above using terrorist tactics to make people believe in Him (and what's the big deal if people do Not believe in Him? God is a egomaniac) then why wouldnt the hardcore followers of these faiths have a tendency to terrorism as well?"- yuckwheat

And one more thing:
I AM NOT UTAMAROHO AND HIS VIEWS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT MINE!!!

...wouldn't want to deprive her of the opportunity to answer, now would we?

you think a sig reminder is needed? i mean, it WAS overlooked before...wouldn't want that _oversight_ to happen again...

___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

"the timelines of the enslavement and the timeline of kmtian culture, when they began compare that to the days of Avraham, for you see that is when teh kmtians existed,
teh isarelites were enslaved some 4 to fuive hundred years later..."

When exactly is the time of Avraham?
Avraham as substantiated by various sumerian texts and the bible, between 4000bc and 3000 bc...more specifically between 3800bc and 3500 bc...

Because when looking a the Egyptian timeline Greek (Macedonian) rule of Egypt through the army of the Alexander the Macedonian, began in 332 BCE with the Ptolemaic dynasty officially beginning around 305 BCE.

actually Dorian a greek invader invaded greece between 1000 bc and 500 bc

before 1000 BC David was made king in Israel, shortly after that DOrian invaded Egypt, and 430 years following teh Israelites made their exodus

So if the "Egyptians" were "Greek migrators" as you say, then the "Israelites" must have been in Egypt during this time. Now Going by the 430 year period of the Israelite enslavement in Egypt(Exodus 12:40 KJV: Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years),
the Exodus would have occurred sometime after the European Common Era which marks the birth of Jesus/Yahshua/Issa around 10 BCE- 0 CE (usually being 0 CE).

^See above, below is null and void based on what history has stated above...

Besides historical records tell us that the Exodus DEFINITELY did not occur during the common era.
And to be precise the 430 year period plus the 332 BCE of Greek rule of Egypt would place the Exodus around 162 CE or the second century when Christianity had already begun to be established.

>>actually Dorian a greek invader invaded greece between 1000 bc and 500 bc

dorian a "greek", invaded "greece".

from what i'm gathering, you are trying to show an earlier time frame for the invasion if kmt by an outsiode group (the greeks), is this right?

if so, then why post the statement above? what does this have to do with the invasion of egypt? you said "dorian a "greek", invaded "greece"."

clarify.



___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

what now you wanna dissect mistakes...it should read

Dorian a greek invader invaded egypt circa 1000bc-650bc

...now where is evidence that he invaded egypt and ushered in the dynasty of greek rule? what evidence is there to say greek rule was established at that time after he came and conquered? can you give some sources to show that the greeks did indeed have power and influence during that time frame that you stated?

just trying to get to the bottom of this.
___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

Actually I was a little off, those events happened at about circa 1500bc to 800bc...according to early greek and mesopotamian texts...

Cyrus Gordon was a leading archaeologist and linguist, he studied msotly ancient languages, scrolls, tablets and artifacts that are found in early mesopotamia which is a culture that is considerably older than ancient egypt...

He writes about the Greek-Mesopotamian tie, how Greek got most of its culture from mesopotamia and not egyot like previously thought by most scholars...he and other diggers have found substantial evidence that the greeks traded with a minoan island(which is mesopotamian) and that from this island the greeks learned their alphabets...surprisingly enough...we still have those alphabets which are more similar to the near eastern languages specifically teh near eastern semitic languages...than it is to the egyptian pictographs...so it is clear that not only did teh greeks get their language and script from somewhere else, but this somewhere else existed at the same time, (proven to be before) ancient egypt...

There are various scholars and artifacts currently in the egyptian, and british museums where if someone wanted to, tehy could go and see for themselves...that is besides the point...the point is this mesopotamian civilization was also who teh egyptians traded with, as well, there have been many sites dug in egypt where diggers(name for archaeo's) have found mesopotamian pottery, scrolls and etc..

can you answer the questions.

here they are again:

...now where is evidence that he invaded egypt and ushered in the dynasty of greek rule? what evidence is there to say greek rule was established at that time after he came and conquered? can you give some sources to show that the greeks did indeed have power and influence during that time frame that you stated?

___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

I already gave you a reference, if you are not finding any info anywhere perhaps you should start with this gordon guy...

I doubt that you will find info on this from the internet...but you may want to try an egypt history book, or maybe a greek history book...those are your best bets...the info is not exclusive...at best you can also find the info in a school text book...

i've cross referenced "Dorian" and "Egypt" in 8 different search engines and haven't come up with anything at all. I just emailed2 different professors at Brown university with the same questions i'm asking you, and i will post what THEY say.

personally: i think you just went and searched "greek invasions" on the internet, found the reference to the Dorian invasion, saw that it predated the dates Solarus posted, and then used that to justify youwhole original argument. But hey! i could be wrong...

The fact that you can't recite or offer the contents of the reference that you ask me lookk up (and i will), is "strange" to ssay the least. This is something people do when they exhaust their ability to explain something that they claim they "KNOW", but can't support through fact. but hey! i could be wrong.

let's see what some experts from Brown University's Egyptology department say...



___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

of professors...as well Specifically tell them that the invasion occured...during the israelits invasion of cana'an...this should jog their memories...as well, you should ask them if they would not mind me asking them some questions as well, when they reply...

perhaps they wouldn't mind taking part in this discussion, perhaps they wouldn't mind their email posted so that we could email them ourselves...

Oh yeah and I'll ask two professors from Ithaca college, one from Cornell and Howard University...I'll see what they say too...

where did you hear/read that at...and what was the proof gien that he did? I'm sure you didn't just read the statement "Dorian the Greek invaded Egypt in "such and such" a year, and there was nothing else after that...Usually they tell the year, what ensued, and some of the effects of the invasion.

But back to my main thing: "the internet has NO INFORMATION IN THIS WHATSOEVER!" how is it i can find resources for every other inivasion for Egypt and other places throughout history, but not this one? This puzzles me that i cannot find one cross reference for Dorian going into egypt...
___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

Like I have said before, try greek texts..


as well, I know you don't think that the internet has all teh information in the whole world...


The context in which I read that Dorian invaded egypt, was refferring to mesopotamia not egypt or greece for that matter, so it really doesn't go into much more detail, except that it tell that the israelites invaded can'an at the same time...about 13th century BC....

I've told you history books date this, greek philosphers and their texts date this,

presentday scholars date this and it is a known fact amongst diggers and historians...so if you are not finding the information based on your tactics, why then not use my tactics which led me to the info in the first place...it would seem logical if I found teh info that way that one who wishes to find the info themselves should use that way also...

I did not use the internet to find teh info, so I am not surprised that is you use the internet, you don't find it...

___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

no i was refferring to dorian invading egypt...there are no records that dorian ivaded mesopotamia

your words:

>>The context in which I read that Dorian invaded egypt, was refferring to mesopotamia not egypt or greece for that matter


___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

it means that the context was reffering to mesopotamia...let me break it down....


the context in which I read that dorian invaded egypt...

note: the context is the subject...

was referring to mesopotamia and not egypt or greece for that matter...

from the sentence one would have to assume, that I am speaking of the context ....to figure that out we just have to eliminate what is not neccesary...that would be "in which I read that dorian invaded egypt"

then the sentence would read "the context was referring to mesopotamia and not egypt or greece for that matter"


simple

are there any facts to support that he was there? i.e. residue that we can see that this is actually the case?

the best way to answer this is to think as if you said this, and then someone said they didn't believe you. how would you go about proving to them that this is so?

what information would you offer to "show" that there was an invasion in egypt specifically by Dorian?

not so much texts from the greek perspective (which i cannot find either), but evidence that can be seen in egypt (during the timeline you gave) that suggests that there was an outside greek inivasion.

i can't even find anything in the Egyptology resources all over the net about anyone named Dorian or a greek invasion of egypt during that time! And i'm looking at information showing lists, and lists of invasions of egypt AND the surrounding areas...but no listing of Dorian....why is that?
___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

>are there any facts to support
>that he was there? i.e.
>residue that we can see
>that this is actually the
>case?


What kind of residue...I know you are not talking about dirt???

>the best way to answer this
>is to think as if
>you said this, and then
>someone said they didn't believe
>you. how would you go
>about proving to them that
>this is so?

I've already given you areas and books where you can find the information, but you must be looking for oral recounts of the battle..

>what information would you offer to
>"show" that there was an
>invasion in egypt specifically by
>Dorian?

THe information that I have offered previously, or do you pre-suppose that I should have the tablets in my hands..
>i can't even find anything in
>the Egyptology resources all over
>the net about anyone named
>Dorian or a greek invasion
>of egypt during that time!
>And i'm looking at information
>showing lists, and lists of
>invasions of egypt AND the
>surrounding areas...but no listing of
>Dorian....why is that?


maybe because you aren't searching hard enough, or perhaps at all...

>>do you pre-suppose that I should have the tablets in my hands..

being that neither myself or the other five people helping me can even find a shred of even a blanket statement stating that Dorian invaded egypt, i'm just gonna ask for the specifics behind you believing such a statement...like: after you read that statement, "that Dorian the greek invaded egypt." What ELSE was said???
___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

the book that you can find the information in...and teh author...

here again since you are really slow...

Cyrus Gordon- Evidence of the Minoan Language...

School- world history text books
Greek History books...

and in using my online researchers, and some students at Brown University... and we can't find any info what-so-ever on a major invasion of egypt from greece by Dorian...not "ONE" bit of evidence?!?!


come on now...is this book the ONLY resource out there in the world that has this written about it?




___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

funny, withteh professor who I took teh class with in Cornell, and teh two professor at ithaca college as well as the professor at Howard University...the book that I first read it in,

teh greek history books at the MLK library, as countless other scholars that have referenced that you cannot find one bit of reference to Dorian and his invasion of Greece...


have you found the book that I told you about, perhaps the author has other references...have you checked out a greek history books...or do you only search for information on the internet...???

As well, don't misinterpret my words and claim that to be what I have said...you are lying and twisting my words...so unless you want that to also speak to your subjectiveness toward this subfect, I would quit...but if you insist on going back and forth like this...continue...afterawhile it just makes everything you say in response look like an effort to avoid admitting that you don't know...don't worry it's okay...

but to not find the information about a MAJOR invasion of egypt, (one which ushered in Greek rule) on the internet, from Brown University Egyptology professors, AND other people trying to find this info as well...makes no sense.

seriously...

you can find information on the type/size/color bolt that connects to a '56 Mustang's camshft online, but not a major invasion in Egypt?



___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

my 2 cents.

C'mon how you gonna diss the ?uestion like that, of course he wasn't a Fat Boy. Now previous to Roots life, Quest did appear on television. He played Shirley on "What's Happenin?" - fxsnyc 6/19/01

Akwaaba

"He writes about the Greek-Mesopotamian tie, how Greek got most of its culture from mesopotamia and not egyot like previously thought by most scholars"

Anyone can look at KMT and Greece to see that Greeks did not "get" their culture from KMT. They "borrowed" certain concepts and ideas(but not all) from KMT but noone said they "got" their culture from KMT.

SE wo werE fi na wosankofa a yenkyi.


PEace
solarICE

Still representin' the RED, BLACK & GREEN since 1978!
EFF RED, WHITE, & BLUE*!

Ain't a damn thing changed...

*That includes the Panamanian "dummy government setup by you know who" flag.


***Something to think about***

"if the god of these religions (judaism/christianity/islam) is not above using terrorist tactics to make people believe in Him (and what's the big deal if people do Not believe in Him? God is a egomaniac) then why wouldnt the hardcore followers of these faiths have a tendency to terrorism as well?"- yuckwheat

And one more thing:
I AM NOT UTAMAROHO AND HIS VIEWS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT MINE!!!

i'm finding no information on her claims whatsoever...

we need to slow down and get her to give references, cuz i'm not finding shit!

___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

are the ?s you asked, because you don't know or are they just for _us_ to consider

if you have insight or resources on any of those ?s or anyone else's, i think we are all open to it - that's why we are on this post.

**********THE SIG**********

The point is for us to sit down and make some kind of agreement on some basic things and understand that what is going to be freedom to me, is not necessarily going to be freedom for you. Self-Determination must be a very important part of what We're talking about when We talk about political organization -- political activity -- that has to be underlined because everybody doesn't have the same dream. So, there has to be room for everybody to attempt to move toward that dream, as long as that dream does not include oppressing other people; exploiting other people.
-Assata Shakur

I long for the day when I can go out, eat a raw food breakfast, snack on natural fruit and vegetables, read a book, study and practice a martial art, eat dinner, cultivate my garden, play with my seeds, and rest......
-urbgriot

While I do have the answers to the questions that I posed, I am confused as to why people think egypt is the first civilization and would like to see the answers that people turn up wit to show and prove that indeed egypt is...

the questions taht I posed, if one who is truly on teh search for truth, will cause the answerer to find the answers that I have, which are teh only answers that exist, not because of monopoly, but because of unbiased research...

let unbiased please be teh key word...

(and never will you all ever hear this again from my mouth)

...but i think we need to pray for her. let us join hands.

Dear heavenly father, we come to you today asking for you to bestow upon us wisdom and guidance for our sister in need. She has been on a long hard road Lord, and although we do not want to question your path, we pray that you bring her into the light of your love and compassion. Dear God, we know that it is you that rains down blessings upon us, and guides our way, and so now we come before you, knees bent and heads bowed asking that you show our precious sister Halleluyah "the way". Let her see how she can move with YOUR will, and with YOUR direction so that she can have the peace within that you've shown all the rest of us. Help her to recognize that her behavior is "abnormal" to say the least and help her recognize that while everyone else seems to have "gotten it" that she still needs to come into your true understanding. Please help her to refine her speech and use of board space so that those of us with slow connections aren't subject to slow loading times due to post, after, post, after post that could've been condensed. This is all we ask Lord.

From your children, in Jesus' name...AMEN

___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

Yimhotep
things must really be bad if u throw in "in Jesus' name"
LMBO
Shemhotep
************
Our limitations are a temporary point
in our growth, as opposed to a finite
and essential quality of our spirit.
-Ra Un Nefer Amen (paraphrased)

>it is not pictoral, so it
>could not have come from
>egypt like most people claim...
>
>
>most people claim taht the greeks
>got their civilization from the
>egyptians...but their writings are different...
>

Helleluyah you are very intelligent and have a good point of view, but you only seem to take things at face value. Please do not come in here to be the antagonist. If you're trying to learn something then joint the effort. If you're only attempting to give sarcastic critiques then persue your other endeavors.

peaces

"Nothin but wisdoms word to stir the soul/to clear the masses misconceptions stearing for/head to head collisions with hatreds pimpin/we alienated but still hold dominion ova majority thoughts and opinions/don't mean shit to me/raisin this to the illest degree/God Body!/Poppin pills ain't gonna set you free/And that was never me"-PS3

I am not trying to antagnoize, simply trying to get at the truth, if I am antagonizing anyone it would be the liars

Why not move all the way up the ladder to the first civilization

haven't posted. i think that the purpose of this thread was to establish that there are heads who are interested, and identify some general topics of interest (of which, yours are certainly valid).

i don't think the aim was for all the answers/discussion to be posted here, because this would end up being a big 300 response joint like the fast post, and since a lot of heads post on the d.l. from work, you reach a point of diminishing returns in downloading big a** files to see the last 3 replies.

as far as the questions you posed, of course there were antecedents to kemetan culture. see my post, suggesting that we look into the Ta-Seti and other proto-dynastic cultures that flowed up from the south before finding a 'home' in what is currently egypt.

regarding the most ancient origins of people, Diop devotes several chapters in the books that i've referenced above that discuss cro-magnon, homo sapiens, grimaldi man, australopithecus, zinjanthropus in exhaustive detail.

i appreciate your questions as well as whatever knowledge you bring to the endeavor.

peace & blessings,

x.

"We are what we behold and we behold what we are"

How long did it take for man to evolve from ape to hominid
to homo erectus
to homo sapien?

"We are what we behold and we behold what we are"

Shumerian texts and egyptian texts?
are you aware of which civilization came first?
Do you know along teh timeline of civilization and culture, where the egyptians lay?

I'm down as well.

to respond to any posts by Uta but this sounds interesting.
I'm down.

I'm a bit new, but I've been on, but I'd be glad to do research, or whatever needs to be done...I could use the information for the Black Student Union @ my school:7

Salaam

Yimhotep
i'm lovin your name :)
Shemhotep

************
Our limitations are a temporary point
in our growth, as opposed to a finite
and essential quality of our spirit.
-Ra Un Nefer Amen (paraphrased)

Dont know where to start tho


The key to patience is trusting the inner presence that knows exactly what you need
That inner presence allows everything to unfold divinely at just the right time

I always thought ancient sumer was known to be the first proven civilization?


this post is adressing uta's and halley's

i think though, that the focs is on ancient egypt...in the study of that the answers should come out as to their predecesors/ancestors...

___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

if i knew a little bit more abt my situation

so i'm just gonna say, if i cn help i will help as it comes

if i can't, i'm cheerin from the sidelines

it's a cool idea. good luck.


==**peace**==

"baby,
I'd draw yuh bath
like Picasso..

pick you,
like fruit
off yuh family tree. &
eatcha' honeydew ass,
wet"

-Giovanni


"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"The logic of divide and rule is still valid today." Capleton

"if i'm smart enough to sneak around and learn to fly a plane to get me and all my friends enough false i.d. to board us airplanes to get me and all my friends through metal detectors and past security guards while hiding weapons to make an entire plane load of people afraid of my boxcutter i doubt i would be stupid enough to leave all the evidence behind in a rental car
unless i wanted you to think i was something that i'm not" (c) 2ndsurvivor

DomePoem Poets; Vibe Nation; One ppl under the spoken word

useful links:
news: http://www.blackelectorate.com/links.asp
veg: http://www.vrg.org

Hmmmmm, I'll think of a question in a bit. I gotta get some reading done.

Member of the Cipher Divine Coalition of Anatomical Overstanding Through the Development of Cerebral Cortex Thoughts Elevating Gods and Earths Through Mindful Whispers

Plant the seed of knowledge into the fertile soil of the mind
Thoughts blossom when the sun begins to shine
Divine, wise words branchin' from the wisdom
Kultivate the spirit to balance the biorhythms-Kao

----------------------------------------
kaorazen@hotmail.com
AIM, Yahoo IM, & MSN IM:Kaorazen
----------------------------------------
http://members.blackplanet.com/Kaorazen/
----------------------------------------
KRUCIBLE KULTURE MP3s http://www.rapstation.com/artists/artist.php3?artist_id=9397
----------------------------------------
HEY!!! Go to http://www.galapagos4.com and buy the Pugslee Atomz "Thanx 4 Not Rhyming" and Centric I.E. "In Other Werds" projects, both featuring Kaorazen Obsidian Mojo

cuz i can't wait to discuss veg'ism and kids

are yr kids in school this year yet? i remember u wondering how things will be different......


==**peace**==

"baby,
I'd draw yuh bath
like Picasso..

pick you,
like fruit
off yuh family tree. &
eatcha' honeydew ass,
wet"

-Giovanni


"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"The logic of divide and rule is still valid today." Capleton

"if i'm smart enough to sneak around and learn to fly a plane to get me and all my friends enough false i.d. to board us airplanes to get me and all my friends through metal detectors and past security guards while hiding weapons to make an entire plane load of people afraid of my boxcutter i doubt i would be stupid enough to leave all the evidence behind in a rental car
unless i wanted you to think i was something that i'm not" (c) 2ndsurvivor

DomePoem Poets; Vibe Nation; One ppl under the spoken word

useful links:
news: http://www.blackelectorate.com/links.asp
veg: http://www.vrg.org

We're gonna put our daughter ia a preschool soon. The neighborhood that the school is in has a lot of vegetarians, so I'm thinkin' that maybe she won't be the only one.

is to immerse yrself in a hippie community?

==**peace**==

"baby,
I'd draw yuh bath
like Picasso..

pick you,
like fruit
off yuh family tree. &
eatcha' honeydew ass,
wet"

-Giovanni


"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"The logic of divide and rule is still valid today." Capleton

"if i'm smart enough to sneak around and learn to fly a plane to get me and all my friends enough false i.d. to board us airplanes to get me and all my friends through metal detectors and past security guards while hiding weapons to make an entire plane load of people afraid of my boxcutter i doubt i would be stupid enough to leave all the evidence behind in a rental car
unless i wanted you to think i was something that i'm not" (c) 2ndsurvivor

DomePoem Poets; Vibe Nation; One ppl under the spoken word

useful links:
news: http://www.blackelectorate.com/links.asp
veg: http://www.vrg.org

Akwaaba

is to put your children in an environment where they will not feel "abnormal." Teach them one way as the norm and they will naturally do be the norm. It's called conditioning. Every culture does it, and children need it. In fact that was what was done TO YOU!
SE wo werE fi na wosankofa a yenkyi.


PEace
solarICE

Still representin' the RED, BLACK & GREEN since 1978!
EFF RED, WHITE, & BLUE*!

Ain't a damn thing changed...

*That includes the Panamanian "dummy government setup by you know who" flag.


***Something to think about***

"if the god of these religions (judaism/christianity/islam) is not above using terrorist tactics to make people believe in Him (and what's the big deal if people do Not believe in Him? God is a egomaniac) then why wouldnt the hardcore followers of these faiths have a tendency to terrorism as well?"- yuckwheat

And one more thing:
I AM NOT UTAMAROHO AND HIS VIEWS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT MINE!!!

that there were vegetarian communities or even communities where vegetarianism is normal for kids. i haven't really encountered any.

but we are being very strategic with the multicultural/ multilingual environment

and it's true that given the choice ppl will gravitate toward like ppl and form communities

hell, that's how we all found eachother in the 1st place, huh? actually, aren't many of us here discussin this sht because we didn't fit into our communities so well? aren't we more the outliers than the conditioned?

if i did like i was raised, i'd have a fridgeful of beef and dairy products-

i'm glad to see yr disclaimer made yr sig

i saw young coconuts and sugar cane on 14th st today

my friend now lives near delights and may stop in one day on one of her "runs"


==**peace**==

"baby,
I'd draw yuh bath
like Picasso..

pick you,
like fruit
off yuh family tree. &
eatcha' honeydew ass,
wet"

-Giovanni


"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"The logic of divide and rule is still valid today." Capleton

"if i'm smart enough to sneak around and learn to fly a plane to get me and all my friends enough false i.d. to board us airplanes to get me and all my friends through metal detectors and past security guards while hiding weapons to make an entire plane load of people afraid of my boxcutter i doubt i would be stupid enough to leave all the evidence behind in a rental car
unless i wanted you to think i was something that i'm not" (c) 2ndsurvivor

DomePoem Poets; Vibe Nation; One ppl under the spoken word

useful links:
news: http://www.blackelectorate.com/links.asp
veg: http://www.vrg.org

i'm just scarin' the hell out of 'em.

like, "if u go to little lakeisha's house & eat those ribs, you're gonna be in REAL trouble"

lol

:D

j/k


_________________________________________________________
*moment of silence for all those lost & those yet to be found*

and every now and then setting her up at social gatherings to eat meat that i've added some sort of laxative/poison to. thus she gets really ill and starts to develop a psychological/physiological aversion to meat. not to mention all the brain washing and propoganda i plan to use...

___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

i wasn't tryin to go THERE

Akwaaba

I think it would benefit all if backed all of their information up with REFERENCES. Give the specific source of each piece of info that you contribute.

This would all benefit us greatly.

SE wo werE fi na wosankofa a yenkyi.


PEace
solarICE

Still representin' the RED, BLACK & GREEN since 1978!
EFF RED, WHITE, & BLUE*!

Ain't a damn thing changed...

*That includes the Panamanian "dummy government setup by you know who" flag.


***Something to think about***

"if the god of these religions (judaism/christianity/islam) is not above using terrorist tactics to make people believe in Him (and what's the big deal if people do Not believe in Him? God is a egomaniac) then why wouldnt the hardcore followers of these faiths have a tendency to terrorism as well?"- yuckwheat

And one more thing:
I AM NOT UTAMAROHO AND HIS VIEWS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT MINE!!!

___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

i wonder when we'll get up off egypt
and maybe learn about the places we are most likely from...


*high five*

Nuevo! The Delaney Files...ctd.
......................
You see Delaney is a pimp...I mean, was a pimp, and when folks want some, he's there to supply the demand. However, he's changed since his early multi-colored gator shoe and diamond encrusted pinky ring days.

A few years ago, while Delaney was doing his regular "bitch, where's my money" act on the corner to some unfortunate lady of the night, a frustrated college student threw out a copy of Marx's The Communist Manifesto screaming "What the hell is this man saying?" Never one to turn down gifts, Delaney picked up the book and was irrevocably changed. He felt amazingly guilty for being such an ubercapitalist, but he realized noone would hire an ex-pimp with a track record the legnth of Diana Ross's weave. So he started Hoes Up! a prostitution commune which evenly splits the profits of the day between all its workers, including Delaney as the manager of operations.

It just BES that way sometimes.
****************************************
http://www.funkknots.com
http://www.cartoonista.com
http://www.pocho.com
****************************************
"You might as well pay attention/ you can't afford free speech" -George Clinton

"People need to stop saying that there is one way to be--and then the issue will disappear." Ntozake Shange-interview in _Mother_ _Jones_

matter of fact, let's not learn of ANYTHING unless it directly relates to us...what point is there in learning about ANYONE else, or ANYTHING DIFFERENT for that matter???

i say we should all start being more self absorbed and stick in our own little worlds...

*this is sarcasm btw*


___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

aw, kiss my tuckus

I'm just reacting against some things that get lost in the shuffle at times...we study egyptian history, ancient egyptian history rather, but it would be nice to study something different, like the Yoruba or the Fon.

not that you shouldn't teach about egypt, it just seems that in teaching about egypt, we often forget about other places.

*high five*

Nuevo! The Delaney Files...ctd.
......................
You see Delaney is a pimp...I mean, was a pimp, and when folks want some, he's there to supply the demand. However, he's changed since his early multi-colored gator shoe and diamond encrusted pinky ring days.

A few years ago, while Delaney was doing his regular "bitch, where's my money" act on the corner to some unfortunate lady of the night, a frustrated college student threw out a copy of Marx's The Communist Manifesto screaming "What the hell is this man saying?" Never one to turn down gifts, Delaney picked up the book and was irrevocably changed. He felt amazingly guilty for being such an ubercapitalist, but he realized noone would hire an ex-pimp with a track record the legnth of Diana Ross's weave. So he started Hoes Up! a prostitution commune which evenly splits the profits of the day between all its workers, including Delaney as the manager of operations.

It just BES that way sometimes.
****************************************
http://www.funkknots.com
http://www.cartoonista.com
http://www.pocho.com
****************************************
"You might as well pay attention/ you can't afford free speech" -George Clinton

"People need to stop saying that there is one way to be--and then the issue will disappear." Ntozake Shange-interview in _Mother_ _Jones_

"irving, tx" will not warrant a group discussion
but anybody's who's down, inbox me!

egypt is a part of history that everyone learns about but is often misrepresented


**********THE SIG**********

The point is for us to sit down and make some kind of agreement on some basic things and understand that what is going to be freedom to me, is not necessarily going to be freedom for you. Self-Determination must be a very important part of what We're talking about when We talk about political organization -- political activity -- that has to be underlined because everybody doesn't have the same dream. So, there has to be room for everybody to attempt to move toward that dream, as long as that dream does not include oppressing other people; exploiting other people.
-Assata Shakur

I long for the day when I can go out, eat a raw food breakfast, snack on natural fruit and vegetables, read a book, study and practice a martial art, eat dinner, cultivate my garden, play with my seeds, and rest......
-urbgriot

Can we actually get people (everyone whos answering questions) to cite their information for just about everything!!! There is the potential for this post to turn into erronious nonsense that comes off the top of someones head...just like most things on these boards.


SheRise
AIM carmel3494 say your okp

when we get into the meaning and decipherment of kmt, nothign short of the papyrus and two translations will be accepted...

this is AFTER verifying the information and logic of the rosetta stone translations...

___________________________________
FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a Common Stomach. A symbol of UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html

If it works do it, if it doesn't, DO BETTER!

(((((PEACE)))))

"We are what we behold and we behold what we are"

Mainly interested in mystery schools.......

↑ yours

"you and whose army?" - thom yorke

¥ not ¿?

™ & © & Æ

*Alter Your Ego*

¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤

the cro-mangon is the eruoanthrpoic white from of the grimaldi black man. so far the evidence that has been dug up bt vandersmeerch ect is that the neatherdals and the cro-mangons were both contemparies in eroupe. the ape to humaniod theory is on stand still since the oldest bones found in the omo valley are that of homo sapiens . this finding by dr. louis leakey debunks the myth that the homo erectus migrated out of eruope and became sapienized in other parts of the world. ....the details are too long and triedsome to explain online.....by the way sign me up....i've been on the ark of sothsis and dr.valinetine and bobby ect i'm down....

well there has been this ideology thrown around the scientific community about the orginal "frist civilzation" infact was not at the nile but came from ethiopia. the reserch was done by joseph greenburg and he used the language of the afrikan people to draw connections. as far as how the kemitians precived themsleves i know your not to heavy on qouted references but this german archeologist by the name of karl lepsius found that in the tomb of ramese the 3 they had a pictograph of four different people. each representing there contemporaies. the funny thing was two of them were black one was a semite and the other a dorian. to qoute karl lespius mind you this was a german archeologist druring the suposed "white washing of history: " wwere were expecting to see an eyptian were presented with a anuthentic negro" now while it is correct that kemit does infact not mean land of the brunt ethiopia does and the focal point of the kemitan goverment was in somialia/ethiopia. if you want to know where you can find this glyph . check the cheikh anta diop book civilzation or babarism the fiure is number 17 and you can also check the book by joesph greenburg languages of africa (the athur selsgchinger rebuttal of not out of africa)... mind you they did reconginzed there phenotypical traits in the paradime of the race relations of the acient times... your correction on the kmt/eygpt meaning black is noted but they did recongnized them sleves as african blacks

lurking and learning and i`ll try and join in

Oeace, U am interested in adding on to the discussion
on black classical civilizations such as the Tmr
culture in the Hpy river valley. Peace.


>just trying to get an idea
>of how many people, what
>questions, and where we can
>go with this.
>
>not even that you have to
>know anything about the subject,
>but to have some people
>scouring the web, or throwing
>in info that might lead
>us in the right direction
>towards some answers would be
>most helpful.
>
>i was gonna start next monday
>so that we can look
>over some questions now, and
>go gather our books/resources over
>the weekend, and then come
>back monday and post our
>findings. i guess here we
>can survey the interests and
>pick and choose which ones
>we wanna dive into...
>
>mine: what did the ancient egyptians
>call themselves and their land,
>and how do we know
>that? (don't answer now, this
>is just my interest).
>___________________________________
>FUNTUMMIREKU-DENKYEMMIREKU
>A Mythical Two-Headed Crocodile Sharing a
>Common Stomach. A symbol of
>UNITY IN DIVERSITY & WARNING
>AGAINST INTERNAL SQUABBLES WHERE THERE
>IS A COMMON DESTINY. Here's
>a pic: http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Funtummireku.html
>
>If it works do it, if
>it doesn't, DO BETTER!
>
>(((((PEACE)))))


DRE Allah allah@metalab.unc.edu
http://metalab.unc.edu/nge/physical
Physical Science Productions