>Blacks can escape poverty. How much
>does poverty effect middle class
>and upper class Blacks?
>Racism is there everyday all
>day no matter how much
>money you have.

True, but I feel that poor Black people FEEL racism more then wealthier ones.


>Who can't feed their family when
>you have WIC and all
>the other programs not to
>mention jobs?

There is a significant difference between just "surviving" E.g. a Constant Struggle and "Flourishing" survival isn't a concern, the magnitude by you succeed or "Flourish" is.


>How long do we stay in
>a inning. During a baseball
>game eventually you get to
>the last inning and the
>game is over.

The fat lady has yet to sing on this game.



>>If 60-80% of Blacks were economically
>>successful and there was still
>>no change in the racial
>>dynamics of this country....THEN I'd
>>call Booker T. a failure.
>
>
>Given the increased attacks on Blacks
>anytime we make gains I
>doubt we will see numbers
>that high. Is that the
>percentage for Asians, Jews and
>other groups smaller than whites?

I don't know......I do know that with Asians, they're not as successful as their average incomes may seem. What happens is that a lot of them are doing exceedingly well and padding the numbers and "hiding" those who aren't.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if 60-80% of Jews were in the top 30-40% of this country in terms of economic success.

Regardless, I don't BELIEVE or rather I REFUSE to believe that the empowerment of Blacks can be stopped. We were never supposed to escape slavery, fly planes, escape Jim Crow, see the Civil Rights Act passed, succeed in science and Business or do any number of things that Whites said we couldn't/would never/weren't capable of doing...despite their efforts to stop us.

Blacks accomplish things on a daily basis now that even 30 years ago, Whites would scoff that we would be able to do. Just 15 years ago, it was said that "No one with a tan could get hired at American Express" E.g. No one who wasn't a wasp could get a job there, let alone work as an executive. Jan 1 a Black man took over as CEO.....another Brotha is in line to do the same at Merrill Lynch.

Small things, just TWO men after all. BUT, even 10 years ago.....a lot of people would've thought it would be impossible.

My point is that I don't believe Whites CAN stop us at this point.

>Locally it has value, I can't
>see any value on a
>national level.

Perhaps.

I suspect that we'll make the biggest impact in our local governments, move to state and then to national. BUT, right now...we just don't know.

>a teen in a car,
>Blacks at a costume
>party. Maybe they are
>not shooting the people who
>are pulled over for driving
>while Black but any number
>of those stops could turn
>into a death regardless of
>where it occurs. They prey
>on Blacks period. Agreed
>good laywer is always better
>than nothing BUT even a
>good lawyer is powerless against
>a corrupt racist system.

I really don't believe Blacks are that powerless and everyone in the system isn't corrupt, racist or even White. Furthermore, they aren't shooting enough of us or incarcerating enough of us to stop us from Advancing.

Every year on a % basis:

-More Blacks Attend College
-More Blacks graduate from college
-Blacks increase their incomes (faster then anyone else)
-The crime rate amongst Blacks goes down. (faster then anyone else - just proving the links between economics and crime)

Racist White America doesn't want this isht to happen, but we do it anyway.

They can shoot us, put us in jail, beat us, oppress us, deny us access......but it just delays the inevitable.

>I agree money helps when it
>comes to education but it's
>the connections with money that
>get kids from affluent families
>jobs more then the school
>they went to our the
>education they have. I've seen
>people who can't read get
>hired and promoted while people
>with degrees and diplomas were
>blocked from receiving what they
>earned.

Be careful with the definition of Affluent. Affluent (to me) means family income greater then 80K, which puts you in the top 20% of families in the country.

A lot of these families don't have connections, will need financial aid to pay for school (and/or loans) and get into colleges on their own merits. BUT, they push their kids harder, their kids have the example of their parents to follow, they take SAT study courses starting as High School Freshman. I took the PSAT as a sophmore, at my high school.....they didn't really give you a choice.

In any event, I grew up around these kids.....they don't have it that easy. It's the rare few that get everything handed to them. I've seen that too......like this guy at my job who makes 300k+ and is an idiot and everyone knows it. We have to compensate for him sometimes and it's ridiculous, it basically takes 2 people to do his job...Him and someone else to cover for him.

I suspect his Dad invested in the company to get it going.

But, the rest of the employees are working their asses off......people like him are in the minority.


>I would expect kids from wealthy
>families to do good on
>the SAT but I don't
>think they need that to
>get into the top 25
>schools just look at Bush.
> True yor income is
>the difference between the best
>schools and the average schools
>but I don't think the
>top 25 are out looking
>for wealthy Black kids to
>enroll.
>

Significant difference between the top 20% of wage earners and someone like Bush (less then 1% of the population) a lot of those people work for what they get....they have a "boost" because of their families, but they still have to work for it. I've seen what it takes for a kid of family making 80k or even as high as 400k to get into a top school. The well heeled AND well connected are very few.


>You can have all the knowledge
>in the world and it
>won't be enough because it's
>a racist corrupt system.

Not everyone in it is corrupt and they can only delay us, not stop us.




>Do you think any of that
>comes into play when banks
>are redlining? What about when
>your Business model will comptete
>with a white business, or
>it might hurt a white
>business?

Redling isn't the Racist tactic people make it out to be, (particularly since it happens to poor whites just as often) basically a Bank decides that it's no longer profitable to operate a Branch in a community where:

#1. People don't invest

#2. People don't maintain high Balances in their accounts

#3. People have no use for asset management services

#4. Most people are renting, and aren't going to be taking out a Mortgage.

The above 4 things I mentioned are a Banks Bread-N-Butter.....and are not prevalant in poor communities. I live in an area that is fairly well off and there are about 20 Banks in a 3-5 minute radius from here and it seems like they open new ones all the time.

About 8 - 10 miles west of here, begins the Wayne - Wynnewood wealth strip of the philly metro area. There are even more banks there, it seems like there are 4 on every square Block.

Anyway, the point is that Banks go to where they can make money.

I've seen Bank lending from the inside and the Business Model thing isn't likely to happen for the following reasons:

-Banks are looking at YOU when you're trying to get a loan. They don't compare Business Models (nor do they have time to) the environment is too fast paced to start comparing a new applicant to other Businesses, particularly on a race basis.

-What usually happens is that a bank has to make a judgement call on a loan. So of course, their natural prejudices come into play. They may not be specifically out to get you, but their prejudices tells them that you're not capable enough to succeed and make enough money to pay them back.

-Banks give loans to competing businesses all the time.

-Lending Works Like This: They WANT to lend people money, after all it's how they make money, it's how the bank's employees get bonuses. TO not lend Money to qualified people would take money out of their pockets. BUT, racist/prejudiced people don't believe you CAN pay the money back, others may just want to screw you. BUT, the former is what happens in most cases.

With VCs or private investors, they aren't going to invest in a Business that competes against a Business they've already funded/invested in. It wouldn't make sense Business Wise. You're basically going to lose money on one and make it on the other, better to just make money on the one...UNLESS the compete on a level that is actually better for both Businesses.


>You can know the system left
>and right from beginning to
>end it still will not
>make a difference if you
>have a loan officer who
>is racist, he is not
>going to play by the
>rules even if he is
>aware that you know the
>rules.

If he knows you know the rules, he may know it will be harder for him to get away with it. If you complain and say:

I had a 780 credit score
I make 150k/year
I have two years worth of tax returns, both with enough income for this loan. Or even with enough income to just buy a house....
I have a steady job & stable residence for the last year.
I was rejected

You'd have a legitamate beef and you could collect some damages and at least get the loan at a lower rate, or at the very least the loan you originally applied for. You could have less then the scenario I gave you and it's still an automatic approval.

You could also go to another Bank....after all, there is one on every corner. (depending on where you live)

You get delayed, not stopped.

>You need more then financial strength
>to stop people from effing
>with you, but it does
>help.

True, you need to do other things to. BUT, it's the foundation of those efforts (IMHO)
>Wealth is not power? Their money
>did not fit the outline
>of what wealth is ?

Wealth in of itself is not power, if I have 600 million in the Bank and don't do anything with it, I don't really have much more power then my neighboor with 6,000. BUT, if I use the fact that I have wealth to work my way into circles where I can make connections. I buy 5% of a public company and use that to get myself on the board of directors, and then use that to make more connections.

I use my position on the board to meet politicians, etc, etc.

Money in the Bank doesn't mean isht unless you use it to your advantage. Otherwise, it's latent power......not power that can wielded.


>I agree with economic empowerment, I
>just believe we can't pin
>all our hopes and aspirations
>on one thing.

Not one thing, we can do hundreds of things when we reach the level where we're economically empowered. It's just fuel, ammo, a tool. It's not the end, it's the foundation for a start.


>http://www.tbwt.com/content/article.asp?articleid=597 A good link related
>to what we are dicussing.


Thanks




Peace,




M2