One week until the draft. You know the drill.

I'll list the prospects, you list your thoughts, as detailed or as basic ("he'll be good"/"he'll be sorry") as you want. As meticulously bias-free as possible or as blindly agenda-driven as you want.

Get on record before these guys play a single NBA game as to how you think they'll pan out. Stake claims, "buy stock," etc.

He's gonna be real good out the gate offensively.

I also think it's a little bit overblown about him running the floor. It might not look pretty, but when I've seen him he's moved up and down pretty well.

At worst an 17 and 8 guy on a bad team.

At absolute worst, he'll be one of those multiple All-Star types that can't get it done in the playoffs but is regarded as one of the best centers of his era. His offensive skill set is simply that good from Day 1, and his defensive concerns are waaaaay overblown for a myriad of reasons I don't even feel like getting into. On the wrong team, he could get that "empty stats" reputation that Al Jefferson seems to have fallen into, except better and almost certainly on a bigger market squad, meaning endorsements, ASGs, and the like.

At absolute best, he's the centerpiece of a perennial title contender and a HOFer. Especially if he lands in LA, where they can devote themselves to bringing in the FA shooters to surround him with. It's not an exaggeration to say his offense was the best I've seen from a freshman traditional big easily since Brand, and maybe since Duncan.

no question Oakaor is talented and I'd have no problem.....

but you putting Oakafor and Winslow in multiple all star games before they've played 1 game...

that's lot of extras on a 19 year old.... Who was the last 19 year old to come in the league like y'all are claing he's gonna come in the league?? lolol..

come on man.....

I like the kid..I'll take him..

but you claiming really he's gonna be better than Moses Malone or some shit is a joke Frank..

you ain't got nothing to base that on.

he's Slow man... he's got moves but he's slow...

he'll be a top center...but tall this multiple year all star..

you have nothing to honestly hang your hat on to say that KAT isn't the obvious better player...

He's got more diversity in his offensive potential..he's a better athlete...he's a better shot blocker... and a solid kid...

get real man..

This is the post in which you take a stab at what you predict a player's career will be. That's the entire point of the post.

I'm not saying it *will* happen. I'm saying I *expect* it to happen. Again, point of the post.

And as someone who watched plenty of both KAT and Jah this year, I can easily make arguments in favor of or against both. The benefit of watching as many games as I do.

I noticed you didn't have any problem with me claiming other people are All-Stars. Just the Duke players. Which is 0% shocking to me.

some sense..he doesn't..

So you think I'm off base that you're putting extras on Winslow and Okafor??

I know that y'all are happy to finally...maybe have some Duke players that don't fizzle and flop in the NBA.... or maybe that can stay healthy for a season...... but I see extras...

Oak has a couple things on the negative side of the ledger that are legit, and I would think a person who is at least trying to give an objective analysis would weigh that into this multiple all star scenario....

cats still can't finish an NBA season.

smh...

a recent history of nothing but guys who did something in college but turned out to be overhyped and injury prone..

can't help the club from the tub player..

meanwhile Love bout to get cheesed out....Russy fixin to get cheesed out....

Norman Powell and Kevon Looney will both be productive NBA players...

you want so bad to hang your hat on just one Dukie in the pros but cats keep getting hurt..... you jixed...

you old. you live old. you think old.

13-17 year-old don't wanna hear about that old duke myth shit, old nigga.

make a living getting them into college...

between you and me, I'm the one who has actually gotten young people into the colleges that you watch play sports on television... So the next time you want to know where 13 to 17 year old are at, holler at me...I'll help you out...

probably took about 200 students to UCLA this year...lots of pretty good highly recruited ballers... all really hyped to go to UCLA.... wasn't nobody speaking on 1 sport schools like Duke...and none of em were Lacrosse players...lol.


and as far as old...basa I told you long time ago, I have no problem showing who Warren Coolidge is..so you can see my old azz in karl kani's an shit...lol.... No problem..like I say..you seem kind of off to me, so I'm pretty sure you'd hack a couple fingers off to trade lives with Warren Coolidge

I know you're frustrated champ....

you had so much hope...

you tried to piggyback on LeBron to hopefully claim a victory for Kyrie...and again....he can't finish a season...

if one of these Duke guys who came out could just finish a season out and live up to their potential...

you hoped that finally you could have something to say to Warren Coolidge who has been truthfully telling you how lousy Duke players were coming into the NBA in recent years...While UCLA cats were ballin out and signing Big Contracts......

but no..

still...

injury after injury...

But no worries...the Lakers will give Oak a chance ... we'd rather have Big Cuz, but we'll work with Oak and his Elden Campbel-esque trot.....lol...

... and a large number of All-Stars annually range from okay to terrible on defense, that doesn't really stunt my projection too much even if he ends ups closer to bad than okay. I think he'll be fine-- he certainly showed me in several games this year the capacity to hold his own defensively at bare minimum against size.

But I'm glad to hear I have some sense.

that of any 19 year old big that has ever come out to the nba..

yet at the same time you're saying he got holes and deficiencies but he'll be fine..


can't have it both ways player....

I literally thought that was the standard hype for every player considered for the #1 pick ever, excepting only the weakest of draft pools.

Besides, you said he could be a top big man. A ton of top big men have multiple ASGs. Shit, the aforementioned Kevin Duckworth has multiple ASGs.

And as I said multiple times above, the "holes and knocks" are inconsequential (and overblown imo) compared to his next-level offensive talent. Next-level offensive talents make ASGs, including ones that play worse defense than Jah.

That's a compliment

I don't think you ever watched him.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I've watched both guys, which puts me ahead of you, who has apparently watched neither.

If I say Okafor is thinner and more nimble, more wiggle,
that's actually a pretty big compliment.

Any which way, Okafor clearly has more going on than Duck did and is also a smarter player. I think he will have a substantially better career, barring injury (which does worry me).

He's an 18 and 9 center for 5-6 years in his prime, that's
a very good pro and worth a top 3 pick


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

on all levels.

Duck was nowhere near as talented. I get the wide hip no vert comparison and its kind of funny but that is a shallow way of looking at the two of them. Their personalities are completely different and Okafor has a bevy of moves. Duck always through up some sloppy shit and went to the line. On his best day Duck has never been as confident as Okafor on his worst day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSKsrQqq-io

He seems like he may have that lazy bug a bit. Where he is super talented but doesn't quit work as hard as he should.

I think he has too much talent to be a bust. But not sure he will be a franchise guy either. I think his ceiling is a #2 or #3 guy on a championship team, which is still a really good player.

Download my new mixtape featuring Lecrae, Andy Mineo, Christon Gray and more. Positive Hip Hop: http://www.noisetrade.com/wadeoradio

dominating the fuck out of smaller players but not really going head to head with other legit bigs. i think that was mostly a function of circumstance, and of course he was going to go off when he had a mismatch.

He plays an old school style but thankfully the team drafting him will be malleable enough to accommodate that. He may not be for every team out there, but these teams need everything so they can roll with it.

Bottom-heavy guys always give me pause, injury concern to me. I took one look at Yao Ming and knew he would not have a long career, for example.

If I am forced to make a projection, I will say he will be a top-tier center briefly and a second-tier guy for a while. All-star but not a HOF'er.

and had more drive.

He 'might' struggle with weight (when coach K kinda questions your motor, that's a decent enough red flag).

Should be an offensive threat and good rebounder (obvious advantage he has on Curry) from the outset. Defense will be the question mark and will probably depend on his conditioning/drive.

Funny thing is, he reminds me A LOT of a middle class man's Tim Duncan. Which is probably most accurately where I see him landing.

He'll be an all-star.

Needs to be on a team with someone to stay on him about his conditioning.


----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

I'll still take Okafor but only by a slim margin.

A franchise cornerstone on a title contender.

A mix of the Gasol brothers.

He can be a yearly 20/10/4/2 guy.

We only got tastes this year due to just north of 20 mpg (only got the 7th most minutes per game on his team! the possible #1 pick!), so I don't want to get into statistics projections. TRBO is probably right that his upside is likely the highest, but he doesn't yet have the polish of an Okafor or a Russell, so his downside is potentially higher than those two (though since they're both All-Star caliber players, that isn't really saying much).

It's hard to tell just how high his upside goes due to the platoon though. He was never doubled nearly as much as previous UK bigs (Randle wishes he'd had that much space to operate), and he's also not the freak athlete that guys like Davis and Noel were. He does, however, have really nice shooting form, a strong feel for the game, a good motor, and exceptional rebounding ability. I want to see what his body looks like in a couple of years before I really can tell just how good he'll be-- but I'll bet heavy on him.

If he can get stronger in his legs/hips, he could be tough to deal with inside and out for NBA defenders. Some people are saying to use him as a 4, but he's such a good rebounder and he's got such a big frame, it'd be a shame not to see what he can do as a 5, adding some improved foot work and improved post moves to his already nice jumper/mid-range game.

If Minnie takes Okafor based on some short-sighted, style-of-play argument I will laugh. They will take KAT though.

he could have been a bigger beast, honestly from a talent standpoint I think Sheed had as much as *any* of his peers at the position (Garnett, Dirk, Webber, et al).

I don't think he deserves the overwhelming consensus number 1. I think any of the top 4 guys are more or less interchangeable and baed on fit. But he'll be good, top 10 pf at least. He goes to the west, though, he's going to have a hard time cracking many all star teams, because the position is loaded.

>I don't think he deserves the overwhelming consensus number
>1. I think any of the top 4 guys are more or less
>interchangeable and baed on fit. But he'll be good, top 10 pf
>at least. He goes to the west, though, he's going to have a
>hard time cracking many all star teams, because the position
>is loaded.

His floor is what Sheed was. His ceiling is what Sheed COULD have been given his talent.

Will be fun to watch.

Which would push him past Sheed IMO. Sheed had the talent to be much more devastating but didn't realize his potential. KAT doesn't have AS much talent as Sheed but he could get closer to his ceiling than Sheed did.

I think that would push him past Sheed as a player. And KAT might develop well past our expectations like Anthony Davis did (we all didn't think he'd be this good on O this fast).

In the end it extended his career and made him a great fit for Detroit but you can see where he starts jacking threes, his career and impact both changed (for better or worse, you could make different arguments).

I don't think KAT has the raw ability Sheed did either, I mean there were games early in his career where he was unfuckingstoppable in the post and had that turnaround working. But I think Towns can maybe be a more consistent player with a similar level of ability. Kind of like a B-grade AD offensively, not sure about his D (likely not near AD's level though).

Post-timberwolves of course. LOL


----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

I told people on this board at season's start I didn't trust OSU's prospects this year because they would have to rely so incredibly heavily on a freshman guard. While it turns out that I was right not to trust OSU this year, I was wrong that Russell couldn't deliver. He exceeded expectations-- it's just that the rest of OSU's roster underperformed from even my low expectations.

Russell's feel for the game is the best in the draft. You can just see him controlling the game. Haven't seen that in a freshman PG since Kyrie... or in any PG of any age with the pure skill that Russell brings to the table. His passing is next-level, his handles are disgusting, his wingspan is awesome for the position, and he can score in a variety of ways. He's not the greatest defender in the world-- but neither are Jah or Towns. You don't draft these guys as the top three players for their defense, because plenty of MVP candidates aren't defensive studs anyhow. He just needs to be competent, which he can be with a good coach-- he's got the IQ and the body to defend the position well.

If he ends up in the East, he could potentially be an All-Star as a rookie. Which feels weird to say... but the guard situation is so dire in the East, and he could put up those flashy ESPN Top 10 plays that get the national attention that get young guards into the ASG.

..he has the size, skill, talent, intelligence, & plenty of potential for improvement.

i hope the lakers draft him.




*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

Good size and potential to be a complete player. I don't see dominance but I see a potential key cog on a very good team. Not to compare them as a players but in terms of impact I could see him reaching the Conley Jr level, but not say the Russell Westbrook level.

best handles, and the best shooting point guard in this draft.


perennial all star.



#BEIGEMESSIAH

When he was a shoe-in for the Sixers he was a
Hall of Famer

Y'all fucking breath STINKS

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I already go to way too many games...this happens? and Dolan about to take even more of my money.

you got three guys tossing his salad and two others saying he'll be good but not great (which they both said during the NCAA season). somehow these responses indicate his stock has fallen?

i still think he goes third, personally, if not to philly then to the team they trade down with.

I don't see him better than Mudiay though.

I'm also not sold on him spending his whole career at pg.

not to mention better vision, more room to develop, etc.

super athletic, amazing in the open court, great defensive potential, broke ass jumper, high turnovers. i know he's younger and can develop, and i know he's on a different level athletically. but i don't think that's hinkie's guy, and i wouldn't take him about dangelo or dat zingus.

of course, everything i know about him comes from the draft express youtubes. on no planet should my opinion be taken as informed.

but yeah i think russell managed the ball and possessions decently this year. he will have a learning curve but i am not worried about him being dependable, i am just wondering how much more he will be than that

and i want

I think the questions about his D is warranted.

But all the other stuff...top 5 pg potential.
----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

Anything beyond that will depend on what situation he ends up in.

Hopefully he goes to the right spot and gets the push and support to develop past star into superstar.

He's not as fast as I would like an NBA pg to be in today's game which makes me thing 'tweener' guard but he has the skillset to not let that hinder him.

He's like a hybrid of Trey Burke and Brandon Roy.

That should be good enough for at least one ASG. We'll see where he ends up-- I'm not necessarily sold that he'll be a studly scorer who can carry a team singlehandedly (the Harden comparisons were... ill-advised), but he's virtually unstoppable in transition, a tough rebounder, can defend multiple positions, and a strong catch-and-shoot jump shooter. He has the raw talent to be a multiple ASG guy, but I want to see him continue to improve his shooting off the dribble, which probably requires a little work on the mechanics of his release. Still, he's such a goddamn hard worker and a studly athlete, and he can contribute so much right away to a team even if his jumper isn't falling. It'd be foolish not to bet on him.

Because I did


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

If we could trade down to get him and acquire another good pick, I would honestly be pleased with that, that is how highly I think of his potential to contribute to a winner. Love his competitiveness and well-roundedness.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

NASCAR
I ain't sold

The team fit will matter more with him.


----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

somewhere between that and Kawhi Leonard.

His body is too weak. But he'll have a solid career.

I'll never be able to see that guy without thinking of that name

Yes he is very skinny but so was Dirk and so are most 19 year olds. This guy is smooth as fuck from what little I have seen. Potential game-changer. Another guy I wouldn't mind Philly winding up with, especially in a trade-down for another asset. Imagine the length and potential of that frontcourt.

if he was going anywhere from 15 and after...i wouldnt say it.

but until a euro proves themselves worthy of that top 5 pick im gonna play it safe and just call bust every time.

i hope he balls out. id gladly take an L to see him do all the things ppl say he can do..at the NBA level.

Plenty of Euros have been worth top 5 picks, they just havent been taken in the top 5.

I think he is gonna be good, man. He and the young Sabas are both gonna be good Euros. Sabonis could have come out this year and been a first rounder but I think he made the right decision to go back. Obviously his family isn't pressed for money. So now he'll have time to develop and improve his draft standing from teens/20s to top 10.

>Plenty of Euros have been worth top 5 picks, they just havent
>been taken in the top 5.

bigs (nuggets, magic, jazz all got legit starting centers from overseas), giannis i dont think is a reach nor is goran dragic as good top 10 value. marc gasol if you wanna go back a few years. alex len is going to be a solid player although he did play college ball in the u.s.

NONE of them were all stars

maybe that trend changes with #DATZINGIS though

stars.

it's still a period of transition. look at the NHL, they started bringing guys in the 70s from Sweden and then in the 80s/90s from behind the Iron Curtain. You still have a lot of high-profile busts and totally under-the-radar stars that are playing now. Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Lundqvist, look how low these guys went, and there are plenty of Russian Roulettes and Swiss Misses up at the top. Not an exact parallel but just to say that international scouting is a work in progress in all sports. The players are there, they just aren't always in the correct order.

That's not saying a great deal, but I'm not too confident on saying much more than that by just watching some footage and highlight reels. The bust fears/comparisons seem unfounded though. His jumper is much better than Vesely's, and he's much more athletic/versatile than Bargnani.

The ceiling potential is obvious, but it's hard to say whether he'll just be a starter or be much better without seeing him more. His potential *is* pretty sexy though-- I understand the hype past the usual Euro cysage, and his floor seems relatively high.

I'm going with the "he's a bust due to not being from an actively war torn country" agenda logic.

Of course, he could turn out to be a solid contributor if he goes to the right team and receives proper coaching.

As I posted somewhere else I'm leery about guys who rise and fall based off of private workouts. Everything I've read I keep thinking a more athletic Bargnani. I swear to God I hope the sixers pass tho. He's not shawn bradley, but that name will get thrown around a lot.


----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

They got him as KD, Dirk, and Kirilenko.
----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

>They got him as KD, Dirk, and Kirilenko.

Not as athletic as KD and doesn't have the playmaking skills

Won't defend like AK47

He will have a long career and if somebody wants to go to the mat for him I am all ears. Havent seen enough personally apart from seeing that he has all the tools to mold himself into a career pro.

player in the league.

I have heard stuff like that and Westbrook comparisons. I hope they are true.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2174006&mesg_id=2174006&listing_type=search

just saying gatdamn, that's a helluva talent if he projects that way. you arent the first person i have heard say something similar. it's too bad we didn't get to see him at SMU

that miss sucks more than any of the recent ones.

Better fix that shot though. He's tailor made to play in Sacto. Doubt he falls that far.


----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

From what I've seen he has one of those 'could be good, could be a headcase' vibes. Those dudes usually have a gang of skill but could ultimately waste it.

Players on this list w/their range:
Floor: Rashad McCants - Nut jobbed his way outta the league. Coulda been a 16-20ppg guy for 5-7 seasons but NOPE

Standard-level: Shabazz Mohammed - Didn't look promising at first but worked hard and has some potential to be good at the pro level.

Top tier: Stephon Marbury - Good career, great talent, not maximized though because of headcasedness.

Ceiling: Russell Westbrook - When talent is maxed and matched with controlled headcasedness. The rarest of rare feats.

I get a Standard-level/Top tier vibe from Mudiay.

Take this eval with a grain of salt though. *shrug*

Looks like a hybrid of Russy and Wall to me. Nearly as athletic/explosive as Russy, but oriented more like Wall. Seems like a good pick n roll player, which is great, and I am impressed with what he can do inside. He's got post moves. He's more of an explosive finisher than Russell IMO. It's hard to compare levels but rebounding-wise he really impressed me, too. I like Russell's handle but this dude seems to have a little better one, just as functional but with more moves and flashier ones. They are the same height/length but I like his defensive potential a bit more, too.

Russell its embarrassing.

Now I'm going to be pissed if the 6ers get Russell over Mudiay. I hope Hinkie throws his balls on stage and picks Mudiay.

I'm looking for one person to actually look at them go head to head and tell me otherwise. Basically I'm looking for someone to lie.


ESPN is airing all types of the top picks HS games. Watch and tell me otherwise.

yeah man after doing my homework i too will be very upset if we take russell over him. i want mudiay, winslow or dat zingis, i'd be excited about any of those three.

Sorry but I dont respect the Big 10 for basketball. I do like Russell but Mudiay has that Alpha Dog mentality. He made Okafor take a back seat in the half court offense when they played together.

Embiid and Mudiay together?!?!?! I'm rocking the African medallion heavy to the game like its the late 80s with a Marcus Garvey shirt.


It wont happen tho. FUCK.

>Sorry but I dont respect the Big 10 for basketball.

dumbest shit ever. d-russ had offers from several notable bball powerhouses (bigger than TOSU even)

edit http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/124603/dangelo-russell



mudiaye was headed to SMU. who gives a flying fuck about anything SMU has done in hoops...EVER...(or the AAC or whatever tiny conference they're in now)

faulty logic.

oladipo is a better athlete than of the guards in this years lottery..and hes a big 10 product...soo miss me with that bs.






mudiaye cant shoot. have fun with that.

and lol @ basing this opinion on a high school all star game where no one is even trying to play D (and 12 games of tape vs a bunch of chinese bums and ex american players)


glad all of this is on record though.

but D'angelo would have shit on whoever they put in front of him...in any conference.

i doubt any of you (other than Longo) watched a single TOSU game all year lol

for what? 12 games?

LOL

They acted like going to China he got banished to some other universe. Nope. Its the same kid.

There's one tier. KAT, Mudiay, Okafor.

Then I had Russell on another with Myles. But have since dropped Myles down a notch cuz it seems like he took a step back.

But tier 3 I have Winslow, Johnson, Lyles, WCS, Myles, Oubre

people really forget what they seen in a year?

He can be a superstar based off his physical talents alone on the defensive end. But can also do some things offensively that he's rarely shown.

Or he could be a just a rotational defensive stopper.

Or he can flame out.

I'm guessing somewhere in between the first and second scenario.

A great kid. Phenomenal. But aloof. And does some dummy things. Like changing his middle name to "Trill" and openly admitting to not knowing what Trill means.

http://ukrecruiting.bloginky.com/files/2012/08/UKposts.jpg

great asset...

He can just do freaky things defensively. Next-level studly body. If Anthony Davis didn't exist, I'd call him the most physically impressive big of the aughts. Stupid fast. Terrific hands would make him an elite shot blocker in the NBA from Day 1, and when locked in, he's a terror on the offensive glass. He's also, quiet as kept, probably the best passing big man in the draft.

He had issues with consistency at UK. "I don't care." (c) Tommy Lee Jones. Skills like that, a body like that, you take him. Absolute worst, you throw him in as your 5 and work around his offensive limitations because of what he can give you defensively and in transition. Maybe he flames out and gets somebody fired... but I think it's more likely he gets somebody fired for passing on him.

Floor: JaVale McGee

He seems to be a smart guy and sometimes that hurts you in the single-focus world of pro sports. He certainly hasn't always been engaged.

Hopefully the stakes of the pros change that. Obviously has a good mind for defense plus all the physical tools and then some. Interesting to see mocks with him going to the Pacers. Unlike Hibbert, he was not a guy who necessarily showed linear improvement, but he would offer them a more mobile big who is potentially just as good protecting the rim.

If he cares

Looks like he's likely to impregnate strippers

Has that Paul George "I REFUSE to wear rubbers" pretty
nigga look



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>Looks like he's likely to impregnate strippers
>
>Has that Paul George "I REFUSE to wear rubbers" pretty
>nigga look

>Has that Paul George "I REFUSE to wear rubbers" pretty
>nigga look

Let me get this straight: Are you saying he's going to smash his way through Starlets equivalent of whatever city he goes to?

>
>Looks like he's likely to impregnate strippers
>
>Has that Paul George "I REFUSE to wear rubbers" pretty
>nigga look
>

----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

I'm not a sold on him being able to guard 1-5 in the league. I think good Pgs and good bigs will eat him up. Running end to end with Jerian Grant is cool, but Jerian maxes out as a good starter in the league.


----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

>
Folks say Tyson...

----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

If he can cover ground in the way that Hakeem or even Ben Wallace did that's a huge W. You want a rim protector who can challenge high and play switches effectively? This is probably your guy. You want a guy who can guard all five positions and cover 25 feet in any direction? Go sign the Flash.

always a winner, improves aspects of his game every season.

He is powerful and tenacious, I like his game a lot. With him, Winslow and DAT ZINGIS!, this draft is loaded at the increasingly important three spot. I think this kid has all-star and all-D potential.

sure everyone should get stronger but In terms of 3 prospects in the last 10 years he may be the strongest.

beside the fact he's already pretty strong for his age.

he has the size and above average strength but he needs to maximize what he has plus be stronger at the rim.

i guess i should have been a lot more specific, i mean he needs to get stronger/more explosive in certain areas. i firmly believe he will, it's a matter of fleshing out rather than developing, which gives him an advantage over most.

It's funny if I have to rank all three guys right today I would rank them Winslow-Johnson-Porzingis but if I were ranking their ceilings the order would be reversed.

I think Winslow will have the best career though. Most of the tools and skills, all of the intangibles.

now again i would take winslow here but i dont think johnson is some lost cause because he, like all prospects, has some stuff to work on.

is how his game just keeps developing. Seeing him as a freshman in his as good as he was you wouldn't have expected this. From basically being a power 4 to now a wing. From that freshman year to now he's been the best player in his team but carries himself in a way that's confident but not cocky.

I expect his jumpshot to look a lot better by the start of the season. Even though his jumper was average in college this year, people didn't even expect it to be that good- and it progressed throughout the season.

He doesn't have a lot of holes in his game and has a good basketball iq people don't talk about because of that cism.


Big black dude with big hair- nope automatically can't be smart.

maybe the latter more often but i dont find this to be lacking in any semi-professional analysis of his game.

anyway i like him and think he is shaping up to be a great value in the mold of like paul pierce, caron butler, paul george and other guys who slid a bit for no good reason.

>maybe the latter more often but i dont find this to be
>lacking in any semi-professional analysis of his game.
>
>anyway i like him and think he is shaping up to be a great
>value in the mold of like paul pierce, caron butler, paul
>george and other guys who slid a bit for no good reason.

And what he needs to do to get better is elite. He's got a bit of kobeness to him in terms of being a gym rat.

I think with taking Stanley you know that barring injury nothing will be left on the table at the end of his career. He's going to maximize every bit of potential he has- which is often cool for a garbage guy but his ceiling is actually pretty high.

I've followed him personally since after his freshman year at mater dei and love where he is headed. I wish the lakers hadn't gotten the 2 cause I think he would've been a great fit on the Lakers.

Seems like right now he's headed to detroitn or Miami since he turned down the Charlotte workout. Okc fans want to trade up to grab him. All 3 of those teams Would be a nice fit. Miami would actually make a really nice fit.

you can choose to emphasize whatever--work ethic, persistence, commitment, study, understanding, etc-- so i am not gonna go blasting the analysis of him in general as slanted or racist.

he also has to continue to transition to a straight-up wing player but i have no doubt he will work to mold himself into the player he needs to be.

His floor is pretty solid.

And all of those other things will come.

I'm not as high as others. I'm concerned what he'll do when he can't simply bully his way around offensively. Too often in college, he'd bully his way to the rim one-handed, but even then in college at the rim he really struggled. I'm not convinced he will be able to create separation in isolation at the next level either, nor am I convinced his passing is good enough to make him a versatile weapon on the wing. Defensively he was on and off as well-- he's got the tools on both sides, and it's easy to fall in love with his potential on both sides, because it's evident in flashes. He's got a really high floor too, just because of his positional size, his speed for his size, and his ability to draw fouls largely due to his size. He could get double digit points per game and have half of them come from FTs, and I wouldn't be surprised. Totally open to the suggestion that he maxes out his potential and becomes an All-Star (I wouldn't fight anyone like Shawn who is insistent that he'll continue to grow), and he's super young so the concerns don't *really* concern me-- I just didn't see enough in those flashes to lead me to believe he'll develop the handles and the passing and the shooting and the consistency necessary for him to max out who he can become.

If you draft him looking for a 20 mpg guy who can score efficiently, play smart, and create positional mismatches when on the court, he's your guy. Absolutely.

If you draft him looking for an All-Star, or even a guy who is top two on your team in scoring... you probably made a mistake. He's already hit his upside, he's not terribly fast or strong (not sure if he could defend 4s *or* 5s consistently), and he's pretty slow offensively. For him to consistently do what he did in Wisconsin's system against NBA defenders? I just don't see it. He'd have to get a lot faster with his release, he'd have to pack on a good 20 pounds of muscle, and he'd have to develop a grip of really savvy go-to moves that he doesn't really have right now (that spin move that was so deadly against college defenders won't work regularly against NBA competition).

Not strong enough to be peak Brad Miller, but maybe he could be what older Brad Miller was: a smart role player, a pick-and-pop mismatch, and someone who knows his role and plays it very well. In the right system, with the right coach, he should work out.

Guys who can pass, shoot and have good feet but still look awkward, basically. I like Kaminsky, I think anything past like 8 would be a pretty solid value for him.

...

Oddly I can't think of a black player with whom to compare him but he's also a domestic product that plays like a Euro. I'm not sitting here thinking about that, really, to me he plays a whole lot like Krstic but I think he will be better than Nenad was, so I threw in Vlade because he was more the level of player I think Kaminsky can be.

he will also distribute from the high post, be a screener and get some work in the low block as well. He will have to pick his spots because he will likely have some strength disadvantages inside, but the league is getting smaller and there will be plenty of matchups where he can play inside, too.

I don't think his game will be terribly different from the one he played in college, just with fewer minutes and less usage. I doubt he will put the ball on the floor quite as much, but beyond that, pretty similar.

Meaning he'll have more of a chip on his shoulder than Z did.

but that Frank will resemble Z in some ways. Having 3 point range is actually an advantage.

I guess a smaller version of Z with 3pt range would be more detailed.

Anything inside the 3pt line will look similar to Z. Pick and pops, mid range jumpers, baby hooks with the addition of 3 pt range.

and very bottom-heavy.

and Frank is bottom heavy. He's not as strong up top which I think he'll gain in the pros after 3-4 seasons.

He's not AS big as Z but their games inside the 3 are similar.

and a better bet to stay that way. z could move better before the foot injuries though, i guess it's a little closer than i thought but i still think kaminsky will play a different game on the pro level than z did.

doesnt love bball and not that good.

best case scenario is he slips to Atlanta. I really think they could max out his skill set.

Probably one of the top 3 or 4 skilled players in this draft. Already has a mid-range game. A great passer. Needs to work defensively.

He as the ability to make a few All-Star teams.

It also helps that the league is getting smaller, because that would highlight his versatility that much more.

Needs to refine and specialize his game for sure but could be an all-star-ish guy. I don't think a huge star but he does a lot of things well and he is well-coordinated, an aspect I find WAY overlooked in terms of "athleticism." He isn't super springy or explosive but he doesn't play a game where he needs to be; he can shoot the ball.

I don't think he is a big star but I think he is a very solid starter and potentially a bit more.

He's not really a "sexy" pick-- I don't think we'll see him in ESPN's Top 10 any time soon-- he just happens to do everything well.

I'm not convinced he's a better prospect than Towns or even Booker, because he's not a great athlete, not a consistent shooter (yet), and not really a strong defender for either the perimeter or the post, so he doesn't really scream "star." However, he has crafty old-school skills and just an awesome feel for the game.

I like him as a valuable asset, almost certainly a starter, and I'd be absolutely stunned if he busted. Some mock drafts have him slipping out of the lotto, which... I just can't believe would actually happen. You don't pass on safe valuable minutes like this on the back half of the lotto.

Has to show that he's more than a spot up guy though.

Ceiling: Can be a starter on a playoff team.

Floor: 3 point specialist for 10 years.

i like his quiet but palpable fire. he wants the ball. not sure what he can do with it at the NBA level besides shoot, but he can sure as hell shoot. either a good complement to a ball-dominating PG or a good heat-up guy off the bench, i like his makeup as a pro despite not being a standout athletically. he also gets underrated in that regard, he can get off the floor quickly and get the ball away quickly; he's athletic enough to play his game.

That lack of an elite first step and lack of sexy wingspan will probably keep him from being a truly great scorer or truly great defender, but he's really smart and smooth, with terrific instincts on both ends, and I think if he somehow doesn't go top ten, then a couple of teams fucked up.

I wish there was a way for him to get even stronger, which could help him at the rim a little more, which would unquestionably raise his ceiling, because he's crafty enough with the ball in his hands... but he doesn't even really need to do that to get 13-15 PPG relatively early in his career.

I am rooting for him to become the Ivan Drago of the NBA.

as he did in college.

Parsons lite. I see him as a Wilson Chandler level player, and that might be at best.

Stealing money

When his shots are falling? He's good enough to be an NBA starter. Great positional size, good athleticism, good lateral quickness, good defensive IQ, good team player. Problem is his shot comes and goes, and he can't really create shots for himself in the halfcourt at this point. I'm not sure what his role becomes in the NBA if he can't shoot or create, as he was most dominant simply driving straight line in college, but he won't be able to do that consistently against NBA size and talent.

Because he's got a high IQ and he's one of those "good at everything, not special at anything" players, it's hard to say whether he'll stick as a valued piece worthy of starting or as a 15 mpg bench player... but I struggle to believe anyone with that IQ and that size/athleticism will be worse than that. If I had to bet, he'll be something similar to what he was in college-- a guy who simply fills a role as a team player much of the time, but who has the capacity to go off and keep opponents on their toes during any given game.

Floor: Eric Maynor

Role player for a good team suits him best IMO.

A starter in the Trey Burke sense (for a year or so until somebody else gets drafted).

A J.J. Barea role on a playoff team is his ceiling.

.

The type of player who could either give you empty stats on a bad team (think a better Trey Burke) or could be a really integral piece on a good team with stars that he can assist and take the pressure off of. He'll never be the top option, but he is the guy that top options need to maximize their potential. He's been a winner his whole life-- in the right situation, he can shine. In the wrong situation... well, he'll do enough to hopefully get a good team to trade for him one day.

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

and it'll take 2 seasons to full realize his ability but 16/17ppg and 7-9apg on 43-44% shooting, 36-37% from 3. is about what I expect him to be.

Which is about where Nick landed. But I think what'll be the difference is, he'll be smarter bball IQ wise than Nick.

>and it'll take 2 seasons to full realize his ability but
>16/17ppg and 7-9apg on 43-44% shooting, 36-37% from 3. is
>about what I expect him to be.

Those are better than Mike Conley numbers. Huge praise.

>Which is about where Nick landed. But I think what'll be the
>difference is, he'll be smarter bball IQ wise than Nick.

Nick was one of the savvier, smarter guards I've seen.

This is why Dallas used to give him the ball over Dirk and
young Nash during crunch time.

So not sure what you mean by "IQ."

Nick had tons of it.

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

his Denver and Laker days...he could play defense, PnR, could shoot the lights out and he was clutch as hell.

He and Vlade on the same team was comedy because they were both very well-rounded, skilled and imaginative players that would take out-of-nowhere risks. They were not woefully inconsistent like Elden Campbell, rather they just had these impulses they couldn't seem to deny. Van Exel's were kind of cool and smooth (but turnovers just the same), Vlade's were more ridiculous and funny (30 foot behind the back pass, long trey for no apparent reason, etc).

Van Exel had a nice handle, changed speeds well, had a nasty stepback, played well in pick n rolls and had that Gary Payton style postgame where he would drive and then suddenly he had your ass on the box with good position. Very attentive to detail.

Tyus be lucky if he starting in Year 3.

ever being what Nick was at his best. Not that he's a bad player, but I think the overall competition at the pg spot and his physical limitations would not have him as a starter in the league.

Ricky Rubio, Brandon Jennings and up until this year Jameer Nelson...starters. Who was the Knicks starting PG all season? Right.

This kid can start and likely will eventually if not immediately.

He has really good pace, knows how and more importantly WHEN to take over a game with his offense, is clutch and is a very good shooter.

He'll be a lot like Van Exel but he'll be less erratic and more poised imo. No knock on Nick but as alluded to, he could do some crazy stuff on occasion.

Looking back I wanted to say something about the Bradon post but skipped it. Fuck he was better than Van Exel. They were both very good.

I dunno shit about Jones this year, he is doing anything? Doesn't seem like it if he isn't getting tick on a team that has definitely had minutes available at his position.

make moves to get him.

Solid PG who seems cold blooded when others wilt. Only his handles seem to be above average but everything else is at least average.

I see his potential to play fast and run an offense in all situations as being pretty high. Level of competition was obviously not great overall and doesn't really jump off the screen with size, strength or leaping though.

I think his floor is a very good backup point guard, kind of like Darren Collison at his best but more traditional and a little better. His ceiling is an above average starting point guard who could really contribute to a team that had a couple stars.

Not in love with his jumper (though his floater and his array of moves off the dribble are things of beauty), definitely not in love with his defense. I guess people are calling him a better defensive prospect than Jones because of the number of steals and his wingspan, but he did a lot of standing around and watching in the games I watched-- more interested in passing lanes than staying in front of his man.

Only okay in terms of quickness, and definitely not strong-- but he's a winner and a leader and all-around a savvy floor general. I wonder if he'd be shooting up lottery boards like I've seen (I saw someone had him as high as 8 and 9, which feels obscene to me) if he'd played against better competition, because his efficiency offensively against one of the worst SOSes in the league feels inflated, and his team's overall pretty poor defensive efficiency is... alarming, to put it mildly.

If he can actually get it going defensively, he can maybe start-- but I can't bet on a PG to start if he's not a consistent 3 point threat, not especially quick or strong, and not a great defender. I feel like you have to have at least *one* of these things to stay starting.

But can still be a good rotational player. I have him a notch below Stanley and Justise. But right with Rondae.

At the college level he could shoot and run the break. I think it will take some adjustments to get that to transfer to the pros but in a couple years there is no reason it can't. Good length and potential to be a very good defender. I think he can drive well enough to be more than a 3-and-D guy, but he does need to finish stronger to do it in the L. I like him as a respectable, two-way starter.

,

Like Johnson, needs to work on his handles and his passing and his touch at the rim, but while Johnson is stronger from Day 1, Oubre is a better shooter from Day 1, and I'll always bet on the shooter.

I also just really like how he responded to his terrible start to the season and the absolute chewing out he received from Self on the regular. Many players who knew they'd be one and done would use this as an opportunity to check out mentally, but he worked really hard to improve, and he had some truly impressive games.

It'll be a couple of years until we see what he will be, and I'm sure Johnson's stats will probably be better as a rookie. But he should be an effective shooter/scorer for years once he "gets it," a good piece on a good team. He's slipped out of the lotto in some mocks, which I think is pretty nuts.

I like his length and I like his mental makeup, could be a good defender and solid 1A/1B type point guard.

Good athlete who also figured to be a 1A/1B type. He is an older kid but he keeps getting better. I think he would do well running a good team's second unit. Think like Reggie Jackson when he was on OKC.

pro career

He's a hell of a college player-- really good passer and shooter-- and really he could do damage in the PnR off the bench for a team, but he's just not strong enough or athletic enough to be a consistent starter, and while he should be ready to come off the bench right away, he doesn't really have any upside-- we know exactly what he is.

I've been way up and way down on him but he's pretty much a Tristan Thompson clone to me if it all works out. I have zero doubt given the minutes that he could grab 10 boards a game in the NBA but it's everything else in his game that gives me some pause. He does have a bit more range than TT which helps in the NBA but he's a bit less explosive, he'll also have similar problems bodying up anyone in the post but I think he's more of a shotblocker too. Where he's projected now I think he has a better chance of going to a good team and being like their 5th option which is what he'd be best suited for.

I can't bank on him to do anything else, but anyone who can crash the offensive glass like that should at least stick. Plenty of teams have someone who can't really score at all but can clean glass and provide defensive effort. Looney should be able to do that, bare minimum.

He shows flashes to do more, maybe even a lot more, but the offense is soooooo unrefined. He also needs to put on some muscle if he wants to be Tristan-esque at the next level. If he can't get stronger, then he'll likely just be a tweener unable to get much tick. A little more muscle, and at worst he's a glass cleaner.

Looney is super skilled....a wing that can rebound...defend and score in the paint...

He ain't got asthma...

hopefully people above the Lakers think he does though because I'd take him..

fool do you even watch basketball... any dummy can say Duke players are going to all star games and the hall of fame and say Bruins will flop...

You'll be disappearing AGAIN in a shower of L's real soon player...

And that might not be such a good thing. He's a pretty poor shooter inside and even though he can shoot 3s he's not that great at it. Good handles though. Good rebounder. Depends on his work ethic honestly. I don't want the Wiz taking a flier on him though. Already had 4 PF not work out in 5 years. Wiz won't give him much pt.

Like one thing that concerns me is that he doesn't have the size and strength to bang in the pros yet, but in college that was a lot of his game. Garbage man shit, put backs. I don't see him playing that game in the pros. He can shoot it from mid range and play the wing a little but I think he is a 4 in the pros like he was in college. He is really raw and a tweener, so I wouldn't put any money on him panning out.

these "stretch 4" and "lamar odom" projections are weird to me. his handles aren't great and his shot isn't much better. his knack for getting to the ball will not be denied, though. if he gets a little more try-hard in him and fills out his frame, i can see him being a double digit rebounder, with a soft touch around the rim and a decent mid range jumper on offense.

question is, are the Cavs looking to add on through the draft now?

if he's available at #24 I wouldn't be mad it they took him

but I have a feeling that they're gonna try to package up what they can at this point

i think a team may fuck around and take him in the teens. shot is lust-worthy and he can pass, too. his offense would be very tempting to me even though he is still skinny and not particularly fleet of foot. in 2-3 years i think he can be a solid contributor, some star potential but more likely a good third guard/shooting specialist like redick.

reaction is mixed, most of the concerns are about his defense and his actual FG% and possibly NyQuility (but Klay is heavy on that 'Quil). but this isn't 2013, Cavs are in "win now" mode, and they need cheap, effective bodies. He'd be a bench guy if he was on these Cavs, I want those skills on the bench, for #2KnicksUnited insurance.

Martin was a puzzling player, he peaked early and then got worse for no apparent reason. Similar trajectory to Eric Gordon but Gordon had injuries.

He needs to go to a team where for the first couple of years he won't be the focus of defenses. He struggled last year compared to the year before because he was drawing double teams and really physical play, and his team required him to shoot a lot and get fouled a lot. I don't think he'll slip to Cleveland, but if he did, that's *exactly* where he needs to land: he needs to, at least at first, be a guy who runs off screens for catch-and-shoot scenarios while defenses worry about the team's stars. He's a strong enough scorer to potentially reach star value later, but he's at absolute worst a catch-and-shoot 3-point specialist, and more realistically someone who should shine as an offensive weapon, perhaps in a Jamal Crawford-esque role.

On paper he seems like a star but does he have what it takes athletically and in terms of strength to make this happen at the next level? That is the question with so many of these guys because they are younger and younger with each class.

He might be the last player to go with star potential. Even if he can't be a huge star, I think he will be a stretch big who can also take inside and contribute on D. Ceiling would be like a poor man's AD, middle would be like Raef LaFrentz, floor maybe Jason Thompson.

I was high on him early when he was beating up on bad teams... but then that's all he was really able to do, because he struggled in games against guys with anything resembling height and strength in the post.

He's got good size and length... but if people think Jah is laterally slow, they will be aghast at this guy. He is the embodiment of the Basa "Stiff Hips" joke.

He's got a nice little jumper and he finishes nicely at the rim... but he lacks post moves and isn't fast or strong enough to survive in the NBA without some.

As of now, he looks like he *could* stick on the right low-tempo team who can play him alongside a stronger, savvier post defender so he could focus on the weak side. If he finds the right situation like that, he could actually do rather well (maybe Indiana, for instance).

Not convinced he's ever a starter, but he could be a valuable bench guy to come in, rebound, block, and act as a real PnR threat on offense. He's just *so* slow and *so* stiff and not nearly strong enough at this point. Any GM taking him top ten needs to have his LinkedIn account updated.

he can be one of those dudes who get a check and chills.

and those dudes burn me every year.

Great length though and great motor, easily my favorite bamma in this draft. I think he could be a Kenneth Faried type, high-energy, high-intensity, shit-stirring bamma who can contribute off the bench or in more minutes when he chills a bit.

Will compete though. Will be interesting to see how his career goes

I have no idea

Hell, his offensive game is better than Faried's at the
same stage

But so was Robinson

I'm confused

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I love how quickly guys get written off now. Robinson is now in a very good situation where he can go out there with regular minutes and not have to worry every second about losing his tick or his roster spot. If you look at him after Philly signed him, he started playing much better. I worked the game where they played the Lakers late in the year and I thought he played the best game of any player on the floor for Philly (Noel also played well). He can just come in and mix it up for 6-8 minutes two or three different times in a game. Good energy, banger, high efficiency (all inside shit, putbacks), etc. I don't think his career or potential are past-tense yet.

The huge difference between Faried and Harrell: basketball IQ. Faried was smart as shit, while Harrell even last year would get lost on both ends and make poor decisions. His defense is getting cysed as well-- he could swat a ball into the upper deck now and then, but he'd also get absolutely lost on screens and switches, bite on fakes, and generally aim for the big play over the fundamental one every time.

If he can get into games, his dunks will make Top 10s and make him some fans... but I question whether he can be anything more than an 8th man, because he has no real consistent offense outside of transition, no real consistent defense, and no real feel for the game. He's a guy you really root for to succeed, because he's fun to watch when he's locked in... but he screams tweener knucklehead who may find himself D-League or Europe-bound before long unless he can develop a consistent jumper in the next couple years.

Has no lift at all like Nazr. But does have great hands and good feet. And a nice touch around the rim. Has to use his strength better. Needs to develop a jumper.

I don't think he has a high ceiling but if the right coach gets ahold of him he could be a solid role player and a good value. He plays a big boy's game but he doesn't have a man's skill set, not much in the way of feet, not a spectacular defensive rebounder, etc. He is one of these guys that's big first, somewhat coordinated second and everything else is a question mark. Ceiling, very good #2 center, floor, second-contract bust.

Unless you just mean that he has size.

he is never going to contribute offensively or broaden his game at that end, but i think he can basically do what he did in college in the pros.

He's not athletic. And his best attribute other than being big is scoring down low.

seemed like a putback type guy to me but obv you have seen him more.

counters. But during his Freshman year he was our spark. Especially when he started over WCS. He has hooks and turnaround.

Soph year he got in better shape, and wasnt as effective because he was lighter. But he has a great touch. Just no lift or explosion.

Every time we fed the ball to him close to the basket I would shout thats 2.

I dont know how he will finish against length in the nba though.

interesting, most things i have read have him as a banger that needs up his boxout game and be a hustle guy. i barely saw him his freshman year and it sounds like that was a better look at him. as deep as they were last year, it was tough just to get a solid feel for their main players, let alone a guy who played 15 min a game.

For the second round, that'd be a good get.

I like what he brings to the table in terms of size and relative skill, I just don't think he's athletic enough or has enough upside to ever be starter material. But again, he's a second-rounder, maybe even mid-second. If he sticks at all, that's a success. I think he should be good enough to be 9th man off the bench for teams for a while, give them 10-15 decent mpg.

Great size. Can shoot, pass, handle, finish, and defend at the pro level.

Will be a solid backup on a playoff squad. Can play 1-3.

with all this incredible pro talent, you'd think they would have been able to beat a team led by a guy who will apparently land somewhere between Channing Frye and the St Bonaventure legend Andrew Nicholson.

NBA game & College aren't the same.

he may not even get drafted.

and there seems to be a consensus on that.

You don't really have anything to add to my analysis regarding Andrew Harrison.

It's this part that requires defending: Can shoot, pass, handle, finish, and defend at the pro level.

http://imgick.nj.com/home/njo-media/width620/img/rutgersbasketball_main/photo/17286606-mmmain.jpg

He should go in the 30-40 range. Any lower than that, and people are overthinking it if they pass.

Lord knows I've poked enough fun at the Harrisons over the last two years for their documented weaknesses, but they *did* improve this year, and Andrew does have good enough size and show enough flashes of real improvement to suggest that he has enough of a chance at being a role player to be worth picking in the second. (Aaron, not so much.)

There are certainly other second round guards I think are better shooters, smarter decision makers, etc... but none of them really have Andrew's physical gifts, his strength, or his defensive ability. Should still be able to draw fouls at the next level too. Easily worth the flier in the second. Not convinced we'll see him in an NBA uniform 6-7 years from now, but he's definitely more likely to be in one than the high majority of second round players.

He is 20 or 21 but he won't come over immediately.

I did not see him play with Porzingus for Sevilla but I have seen him play a bit with the lower-level Spanish teams. This guy is in the mold of other great Spanish big like Marc Gasol and Felipe Reyes. Cerebral player, great feet, great passing skills and an all-around old-school big who could still be in today's NBA. A player like Porzingus (big three who can shoot) or a stretch four with good size and mobility will be essential to let this guy flourish, but in the right situation I bet he can be an impact player. Size is fine and IMO you can make up for being less athletic traditionally with a high motor and smarts at any position, and especially at center.

Any of the teams picking 24-30 seem like good fits for him and he will be a good value in those slots. Of course there is a chance he lags coming over and/or never fully establishes himself in the NBA, but we are talking about a late first, not a lotto, and a potential lotto level talent.

I don't think he has star potential but he's powerful and somewhat skilled. Good height, decent strength, decent length and more developed than some other prospects available. Not really a banger or shot-blocker but can get rebounds and score a few different ways. I don't see him having top-level athletic ability or talent, but I bet he's ready to contribute sooner than some others and I think he is bankable. There isn't a big distance between his floor and ceiling. For sure he will be a good third big, could be a pretty solid starter.

Not much more to say. Could give you some nice energy off the glass and some PnR action off the bench. Should at least stick, hence the lotto buzz. Didn't see anything that made me think he could hang with NBA bigs for starter minutes on a nightly basis.

To me he needs to be a straight three in the pros and that will take some refinement and added consistency.

I am pulling for him, Chester, PA, stand up!

He needs a team that can play him the way Memphis plays Tony Allen: let him defend, don't let him shoot. Problem is... he's way worse on offense even than Tony Allen. If he had even the *slightest* hint of a jumpshot, he'd be a lock for the lottery-- but it's never arrived. Hard to imagine a strong defender of his physical gifts would *totally* bust, because he could instantly come in as one of the better wing defenders in the league... but unless he gets drafted by the right team, it's hard to imagine him getting consistent minutes.

McCullough is obviously the more upside-friendly pick because of his age and range of abilities, but he will also be taken a lot higher. I could see him going in the high 20s. To me he plays the four like a three which sounds appealing except he is a very average sized three and super small for a four. I just think he will get lost in the shuffle unless someone identifies a clear, structured development path for him. That seems kind of unlikely to happen but we'll see.

Christmas is worth a flyer in the late second round. He is also playing a position too big in college, but we've seen shorter centers like Malik Rose and DaJuan Blair have some pro success. I think he is in that mold, he's plenty strong and athletic to be a big in the NBA, he's just short. Ceiling would be like Brian Grant (seems lofty), floor would be a bust but I think he can settle into a nice bench role somewhere.

and maybe a starter for a few years. A poor mans Antonio Davis type career.

McCullough....D-League for the immediate future. If he is able to put on strength he has the skill level and length to be a versatile PF that can knock down outside shots and block shots. He's too light and weak right now though.

I hope he does well. I thought Dionte might finally get some traction with the Suns but he is playing in France now.

To me if I am a good team looking for a wing player to fill a role, I don't swing for Dekker or Oubre with a high pick, instead I take a kid like this. Good competitor, good shooter and a decent athlete. I loved his fire during Notre Dame's run. Again odds are he is a common player who can't stick and winds up overseas, but I do think he could be a great value as part of a good team's rotation if he gets into the right situation.

He really can only do two things-- catch-and-shoot 3s and high jumps-- but he does both really well. When betting on second rounders to stick around, you want to bet on guys who can do something exceptionally well, not guys who are well-rounded. He's a really good athlete, not afraid of physical play against bigger players, and he can catch and shoot with the best of the available players in the second. I hope he ends up on a good team. He can easily become a Scalabrine-esque fan favorite white guy off the bench, and Lord only knows how NBA coliseums will explode every time he dunks.

He's a ballsy player, the kind of guy who will do his thing but if he is in the floor at the game, he will do something more daring. He can drive a little and definitely leap, plus he goes hard for loose balls.

I like him as an 8th man and no more but as a good one who will distinguish himself a little from other guys in that rotation spot.

He's got a well-rounded game on offense but not much at the other end, and size is obviously a huge concern.

.

Seems physically mature and technically sound for his age but also raw in some aspects (shot selection and other decision-making stuff). But I'd like to hear from some people who watched him regularly. To me he seems like a potentially good value, any deal-breakers or majer limitations?

Anyone have any intel beyond the easy-to-find stuff?

But it was his opponents game film and they didnt choose to have the Westchester team tagged so its harder for me to filter out the clips.

If I have some time Ill put a small reel together.

would love your feedback. The hockey coaches we've let see it love it cause nothing like it exists for hockey at the high school college level.

Is their a pro version of hockey breakdown like synergy?

teams at every level have a lot of stuff and share it but i havent seen anything quite like that. like hockey's future and elite prospects, pretty basic (though respectable) scouting sites are still pretty much at the fore. send me whatever stuff you'd like, you know where to find me. thanks

He's such a good athlete that a good organization will find a way to specialize him and utilize him effectively. A bad organization will get enamored with his potential to do more and leave him in limbo.

I think he will be a good sub, energy guy off the bench that the fans love because he an occasionally do something spectacular. But he needs to find some things that he can do very consistently at the pro level first.

If any team asks him to make his own shot they will be highly disappointed. Not his game and probably won't be.

The 45% from 3 is a huge cyse-- he started the season anomalously hot, and then regressed back to the mean. He shot 34% from 3 in the months of 2015. His 3PT shooting was what got him lottery hype for a hot second... then it, too, plummeted.

He looks the part, but he can't really dribble, he can't really shoot, and he can't really pass. So you'd be drafting him for defensive potential, but he didn't really have to defend anyone with remotely his size or strength last season, except for Winslow, who absolutely ate his lunch on both ends. So you're drafting a guy exclusively for his body and if you believe he can replicate the results of the first months of the year consistently over his career. I'm not betting on it. Smells like an 8th/9th guy off the bench. Still, good for him for coming out when he did and capitalizing on the height of his stock. Next year, if his perimeter shot went back under 40% (seems insanely likely), he may not have even been a first round pick.

but might be good at that

He isn't going to make his living on defense or getting to the hole IMO, and he doesn't have the stroke to be a shooter. To me he's got some attractive things like experience and athletic ability, but on the whole I would not be excited to take him.

.

you putting 19 year olds in the hall of fame because they went to Duke, and all Duke guys have been doing lately is getting hurt...

Norman Powell will be bashing on Singler and crew real soon...

he's just such a competitor that i have this, maybe foolish, feeling that he'll find some kinda way to stick around for a while. he'll be a very solid defender and good in transition, and imo it's not out of the question that he can knock down the open spot-up 3 at an acceptable clip now that he won't be a feature guy

Did nothing in the tournament and is kind of a streaky shooter. He is the right kind of point guard for the NBA and showed good leadership skills. Seems kinda like a b-grade Trey Burke to me. He gets steals and probably can be a decent defender at the pro level.

I'll say ceiling above average starter, but more likely to be a very dependable sub who can jack shots if you need or run his unit in a more reserved way.

I want no part of the stock of a 6'2 shooting guard who can't shoot.

Low-percentage volume shooting at that. Distribution never felt in his nature.

at the pro level and if he can't make that adjustment then he is boned.

SUPERSTARS (7 or more AS games, HOF career): OAK...that's it.

STARS (2-5 AS games): Hunter, Russell, Justise, KAT, Mudiay

STARTERS (up to 2 AS games): Zingis, Cauley-Stein, Kaminsky, Lyles, Tyus, Oubre, Turner, Anderson

ROLE PLAYERS: Stanley Johnson, Grant, Booker, Montrezl, Vaughn, Porter, Hollis-Jefferson, Rakeem

JOURNEYMEN: Herzonja, Dakari, Rozier

SORRY: Looney, both Harrisons

>
>
>SUPERSTARS (7 or more AS games, HOF career): OAK...that's it.

I don't see HOF. Or the Top 5 Center year 1 thing you said earlier.

>
>STARS (2-5 AS games): Hunter, Russell, Justise, KAT, Mudiay
>

I don't see Hunter & Winslow being stars. Winslow a starter. Maybe a defensive specialist.

>STARTERS (up to 2 AS games): Zingis, Cauley-Stein, Kaminsky,
>Lyles, Tyus, Oubre, Turner, Anderson

I don't see Kaminsky, Tyus, or Anderson as starters. Solid bench players.

>
>ROLE PLAYERS: Stanley Johnson, Grant, Booker, Montrezl,
>Vaughn, Porter, Hollis-Jefferson, Rakeem
>
>JOURNEYMEN: Herzonja, Dakari, Rozier
>
>SORRY: Looney, both Harrisons

Andrew gonna have a long career.

I mean the Harrisons aren't really expected to be shit and Looney is a project. Your evals had me hopeful you might drop one on Johnson haha.

We are agreeing on a lot of these and that is making me slightly nervous, although I guess usually that sort of random consensus has boded well for players in the past.

Take even crappy to average drafts, 2000 was a notoriously shitty draft and it still had a couple guys who made AS teams (Martin, Magloire, Redd), a ROY that had a good career (Miller), an MIP who was the second banana on a conference champ (Hedo), a Sixth Man of the Year (Crawford) and that's without really digging.

2001 was no prize, but it was better and it produced at least eight all-stars. Pau, Joe Johnson, ZBo, Top 5 Tony, Tyson Chandler, Hibachi, Gerald Wallace and Okur. It also had Olympian Richard Jefferson.

2002 had a bunch of busts (Tskitishvili, Jay Williams, Juanny Wags, Wilcox, et al) and it still managed to produce at least four all-stars (Yao, Caron, Boozer, Amare).

2003 was a banner year, it might have hit double digits now that Korver made one. At least nine guys.

From 04 to 09 you had an average of 5 and it was pretty consistent (five in each year but two, there was a 4 and a 6).

So to have six in one draft is hardly uncommon.

is a lot higher, from 2010 on you're not going to see anymore 6 all-star drafts.

we cant say yet on those drafts although the first three have already produced three each with a lot of players still developing.

90's you still had a lot of 3 and 4 year college players being drafted high as well

At this point, I would be shocked if it isn't Dangelo or Dat Zingus. I don't think Mudiay is in the conversation. If Hinkie wants an upside guy, he'll go with the 7 foot shot blocking 3 point shooter, not MCW 3000.

Me, I want Dangelo. After watching everybody's highlights this weekend, I just can't get over his feel for the game. It's one of those unmeasurable things that nonetheless leaps out when you watch him play. Plus he can shoot, and him and Nerlens in a pick and roll is not fair.

If I had to guess, right now I think the pick would be Zingus. and I'm scared.

>At this point, I would be shocked if it isn't Dangelo or Dat
>Zingus. I don't think Mudiay is in the conversation. If Hinkie
>wants an upside guy, he'll go with the 7 foot shot blocking 3
>point shooter, not MCW 3000.
>
>Me, I want Dangelo. After watching everybody's highlights this
>weekend, I just can't get over his feel for the game. It's one
>of those unmeasurable things that nonetheless leaps out when
>you watch him play. Plus he can shoot, and him and Nerlens in
>a pick and roll is not fair.
>
>If I had to guess, right now I think the pick would be Zingus.
>and I'm scared.

I want D'Angelo too. It's pretty simple. Same as it was last year. The beauty of being this bad is we get to pick from the top 5. But we're being run by some patient mofos with nothing to lose. And if they think year 5 porzingis is better than year 5 russell, than yeah...
----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

http://cdn.barstoolsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/e9ae54088cdbbd6.jpg?33d3b0


Here is my thing, if the interest in heavy in any particular guy at 3 and the opportunity arises to move down and get an asset of note, that is what I want him to do and what I know he will do.

If teams behind us are content to pick between what's left, then forget that, obviously.

Picking third is a good dilemma to have. I like Russell but I feel like he is almost the safe pick here, and that there will be very adequate point guards available to Philly elsewhere. Mudiay I don't know enough about but if he is as good as his main proponents claim, I'll take him if we are going one. 'Zingis seems to have the highest ceiling and not an exceptionally low floor. I love Winslow and as I am sure is clear by now a deal where we trade down for him would thrill me.

We are going to have the opportunity to pick a multi year all star. I'm not trading that for picks that historically are hit or miss as to whether they even stay in the league

Where is your threshold? IMO any pick in the top 10 that comes with what's virtually guaranteed to be another top 10 (with the potential to be top 5) would do it for me. We are still in stockpile mode.

Move down to six, one of Russell, Mudiay, Zingis or Winslow will be available for sure. I do not see how you could pass on that+a 2016 first.

KAT and Russell. Jah would make it three except for the fit. You could sell me on Kristaps or Mudiay. So, no, I probably wouldn't move down to 6.

We may have the opportunity to draft russell, who is about as surefire a stud as PGs get. If not, we'll have the opportunity to draft either the 2nd most athletic PG in the league (Westbrook 1 forever) or a guy with potential to turn into an unholy dirk/kg hybrid. Any one of those guys is a far better bet to yield a game changer than having two picks in the back of the top 10.

The end goal isn't to get assets. The end goal is to get studs. You don't get studs in picks 6-10. Historically, you get them in the Top 5. At this point, the assets should exist to get us Top 5 picks. We should be looking to maximize the opportunities to pick that high, not trading those opportunities away.

Note: At some point we may want to use them in trades for established dudes, but, like, what would be the point of putting Boogie on this team now, with nothing around him? You need a foundation first, THEN you make your big trade.

First, I don't consider Russell as surefire as you do, at least not in terms of being a "stud." Second and much less importantly since it's unlikely to be a possibility, I would make a move for a young star in his prime *right today*. The Sixers have a foundation in terms of youth what they they don't have are any veterans. If they had the opportunity to get for example Cousins or Love, OK, then you accelerate the process. You start selling futures instead of using them, spending cap space instead of hoarding it. That's assuming this is the right guy, and again I doubt that's even a possibility for Philly right now.

>http://cdn.barstoolsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/e9ae54088cdbbd6.jpg?33d3b0
>
>
>Here is my thing, if the interest in heavy in any particular
>guy at 3 and the opportunity arises to move down and get an
>asset of note, that is what I want him to do and what I know
>he will do.
>
>If teams behind us are content to pick between what's left,
>then forget that, obviously.
>
>Picking third is a good dilemma to have. I like Russell but I
>feel like he is almost the safe pick here, and that there will
>be very adequate point guards available to Philly elsewhere.
>Mudiay I don't know enough about but if he is as good as his
>main proponents claim, I'll take him if we are going one.
>'Zingis seems to have the highest ceiling and not an
>exceptionally low floor. I love Winslow and as I am sure is
>clear by now a deal where we trade down for him would thrill
>me.

Just take the best guy. That is the whole point of being this bad. Not to be able to come away with the stanley johnsons and kelly oubres of the draft. Even if you get two of them and a role player. This needs to be gambling on top tier guys. Not bushels of 2nd and 3rd tier guys.
----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

So why not move down to a spot where it's more clear and add an asset in the process?

If they have someone they are enamored with, great. I don't really. There are four different options, all with compelling arguments.

>So why not move down to a spot where it's more clear and add
>an asset in the process?
>
>If they have someone they are enamored with, great. I don't
>really. There are four different options, all with compelling
>arguments.

Okafor and Towns are the best bigs. Mudiay and Russell are the best guards and it seems the zingis train is picking up steam as the best euro prospect since the last best euro prospect. I still think winslow is better, but athletic 7 foot shooters seem to make GMs drool like babies.

Everybody else is talented, but there is a gap between those 5-6 dudes and everybody. Ba maybe right and there could be 14 starters in this draft. I doubt it though. I'd rather use those 2nds to take some fliers and gamble. Not at 3 though. Pick the BPA and move on.

----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

>Okafor and Towns are the best bigs.

Not relevant as they will be gone.

Mudiay and Russell are
>the best guards and it seems the zingis train is picking up
>steam as the best euro prospect since the last best euro
>prospect. I still think winslow is better, but athletic 7
>foot shooters seem to make GMs drool like babies.

OK, so how is it "clear" if FOUR GUYS could potentially could potentially be the No. 3 pick? To me having your pick of them is not as valuable as getting what's left of them *and* another very good selection.

You and I both think Winslow might be be the best of the bunch, so why not move down, get him and add another piece? I am definitely not as enamored with Russell as some. Porzingis has plenty of question marks.
Mudiay is kind of a hybrid, maybe more talented than Russell but didn't come through traditional channels, similar to Porzingis. So I don't think who goes three is "clear" at all.

>Everybody else is talented, but there is a gap between those
>5-6 dudes and everybody. Ba maybe right and there could be 14
>starters in this draft. I doubt it though. I'd rather use
>those 2nds to take some fliers and gamble. Not at 3 though.

Yeah I think there are some good audition guys in the second but I am not advocating gambling in fact I am saying go for the surest bet (Winslow) but if you can get him and another guy, which the Sixers potentially could in this situation, that would be ideal

I thought we had two games with him in it, but the second game I found he didnt play in the game.


http://www.krossover.com/intelligence/shared/558820b41f5e1

Really not much context you can get from 1 game against one opponent but you can see from the reel that he's long and athletic. Seems Nyquilish. He floats on the perimeter on offense and defense.

Doesnt always box out.


But in terms of raw physical tools and athleticisme he seems to be pretty high. Towards the ed he heated up a bit from 3. His jumpshot looks pretty smooth, he's got a atural stroke, pause.


He's #2 i the highlights. I tried to capture a bit of his offense and defense with the reel

if they aint on my list, it don't mean they suck. just means i'm indifferent or i don't wanna share credit wit a rack of other dudes tryna claim an easy call.


RJ HUNTER: best SG in draft...by far.

JUSTISE WINSLOW: been talking about it since as early last november on both my podcasts. way better than i thought he'd be as a frosh. i won't be surprised when he's in the ROY race.

JAHLIL OKAFOR: just by virtue of everybody being dumb and scared by the horrible evals of horrible scouts, i'm taking all the OKS stock here. he's the best player. he's a franchise center. great feet. great hands. plays as big as he looks. got countermoves for countermoves. easy call.

KELLY OUBRE: Self is terrible at developing elite frosh. I felt sorry for him all year. If wiggins wasn't cysed so hard, his ass prolly would fell too, messing wit self.

TREY LYLES: Best UK guy. dunno why they sleeping.

TYUS JONES: He goes to the Rocket's...um, he gon be ROY. 13 and 7...booked. might be more if Mchale have the guts to take the ball out Af-Am hands, but he won't. Hell, Af-Am's game is kinda dependent on it. But Tyus would clean up so much MESS.

RASHAD VAUGHN: gonna be a very good NBA scorer. might win multiple 6th man awards.

FRANK KAMINSKY: as stated, very solid starting center. good passer. solid rebounder. winner.

klay is just a black ass win, no matter how hard y'all try to undo it.

all-nba
sure olympian
champion

all before 26? and NO ONE predicted ANYTHING good for him except me?

yeah...i won. y'all scraping the bottom of the barrel bitching about him averaging 16ppg in the finals when he ain't need to press the issue at all.

been on a lotta sports board in my day. never have i seen niggas hate me winning as much as this board. it gets pathetic sometimes.

you didnt predict all that this soon for him and some people did think he was going to be a solid player.

At least not that early.

Don't remember anybody saying anything about Harden either.

what's become clear is i can shout it from the moutaintop, but as soon as i dude i cyse gets good, they become community property.

There were definitely Harden proponents (though many, myself included, were slightly skeptical). Paul Pierce comparisons for sure, even I said he looks the part but that's a tough game to play in the pros. He has done it and kudos to him. The main thing that dampened enthusiasm about him were some lame performances in big spots, mostly the tourney.

It appears we lost the 2011 T+J thread. I think that one and 2012 I was barely in if at all, so barring its location I can't comment one way or the other on Klay "at that point." I liked him but then again Mychal is always pumping propaganda in my ear.

I don't do Arizona State hoops. Sorry "Fire Rises".

I do remember people talking about him playing like poop in the tournament.

And I don't remember any signifant Harden championing. I don't count somebody saying off the cuff, "Solid player." or "I like him." And I definitely don't remember anybody else still holding that torch after he got to the league.

Same with Klay. There were probably comments like, "He can shoot." "I like his size". But real generic. Nobody else said he'd be a star.

>Nobody else said he'd be a star.

Didn't once pick "Star" or "ASG."

Loved picking him in the short-lived college Survivor league though.

i just thought he played a tough style to play at the next level and hence why i thought he'd be a starter/sixth man but was thinking like 18/4/4 type guy, not an MVP candidate.

whichever one that is. I haven't really watched college ball, but fuckit. *pushes chips to the middle of the table*

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/250x250/63039470.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox6jSkk0W1A

>

Injuries, team dismissals, and multiple failed drug tests.

Not even sure he can be professional.
----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

He's probably lottery talent underneath all of the baggage. I'm not sure, outside of WCS, there was a game changer defensively on the level of Upshaw last year. Has terrific defensive presence at the rim, great hands, cleans up the boards, and has good touch and awareness at the rim offensively. There's a reason why Washington really collapsed the second they booted him-- he was a *huge* difference maker.

He's obviously not remotely refined offensively, and he's not terribly quick, but that size and strength and skill just isn't going to be found once he's off the board in the draft. Even if you D-League him for a year or two, he's worth the risk. If he can shake his addictions, he can definitely be an 8th man center.

Can't see a team guaranteeing him money as a first.


----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

He is fucking HUGE, man, not just tall but long and big ass mitts. Could be a shot-blocking machine. But he is maybe a plodder by NBA standards and obviously has had some personal issues. I am rooting for him but his bust potential is extreme.

Defensive specialist all the way, he can't shoot and I doubt he will ever be able to. Super long and athletic, already has been in the stopper's role. I don't think he'll be a Tony Allen level guy but he will stick around the NBA as a dude who dogs opponents' best wings, as a change-up guy (not a primary).

He has the physical tools and athleticism, but he's constantly biting on ball fakes and letting guys beat him off the dribble. He's just good at jumping into passing lanes, because, again, athleticism. He just has the *potential* to be a good defender... but he has Knucklehead Syndrome, so I doubt it. I think people just see a long athlete and the occasional flashy steal or block and think, "Now HERE'S an NBA defender!"

And yes, as alluded to above, except for maybe RHJ, he's got the ugliest jumper in the draft by a country mile.

But he did seem to get the tough assignments. How he performed in them on a night-in, night-out basis, I don't know.

I think he has the tools to be a defensive specialist off the bench, how much work he needs I dunno.

no, he can't shoot, but he can handle and is a very talented playmaker.

he just went to the wrong school.

Twice against UF and once against Kentucky, prolly the closest anyone came to beating them during the year.

He has pretty good size is the numbers are accurate and he can finish at the basket plus he is comfortable handling the ball. Can he shoot? I am not sure, he was working inside mostly from what I saw. Can he defend NBA size? We'll see.

Seems like you could do worse at the ass end of the first round. I have heard Memphis has shown a lot of interest in this kid.

Can fill it up, but can he set folks up and defend.

One of these guys who worked tirelessly on his play WITH the ball. He can dribble, he can change speeds, he can drive and he can shoot. Can he do anything else? Someone who watched him more can chime in, but it didn't look like it to me.

This wasn't even a Bron-esque "no help" situation. This was a literal no help situation-- he had one guy he could pass to in Ryan Anderson who mostly underperformed from expectations, and literally no one else.

So as a result, he looked for self first, because if they were gonna win, it'd be thanks to some miracle performance. And frankly, the fact that he got his at such a high percentage when ACC defenses were looking for *only* him every down time the floor? Pretty goddamn impressive.

I like this kid to stick, which is all you're looking for in the second-- I'd even consider him tail end of the first.

OWWWWWWWWWWWWWW...yeah he gettin a spot

.