http://deadspin.com/tony-dungy-says-he-wouldnt-want-to-deal-with-taking-m-1608350383

It's not a shock that former coach and continued insufferable shit Tony Dungy says he wouldn't want anything to do with an openly gay player on his team. It's just surprising it took someone this long to ask him.

From the Tampa Tribune's story on the NFL's efforts to deal with locker room behavior, including the reception awaiting Michael Sam:

http://tbo.com/sports/bucs/nfl-holding-players-to-higher-standard-20140720/

"I wouldn't have taken him," said former Bucs and Colts coach Tony Dungy, now an analyst for NBC. "Not because I don't believe Michael Sam should have a chance to play, but I wouldn't want to deal with all of it.

"It's not going to be totally smooth … things will happen."

Maybe Dungy could write this off as so many before him have, as just being concerned with "distractions," if Dungy hadn't previously and repeatedly put his religion-endorsed homophobia on display, and if Dungy hadn't been the loudest and most visible champion for Michael Vick, the ultimate distraction, getting a job upon his release from prison.

dungy is loved around these parts so the reaction in here should be interesting

I'm sure there were plenty coaches/teams who
didn't want to 'deal with' Jackie Robinson as well.
And alike Mr. Dungy, they were egregiously on the
wrong side of history.

-->

It's easy to overlook or be willing to put up with distractions when the player has pro bowl/all star ability.

If the player isn't considered much of a prospect, it's quite a bit different.

Robinson was a marvelous talent. Sam should be
a serviceable NFL linebacker. Even Dungy admitted
that he deserves to be in the NFL based on merit.
And in that instance, not having him in the NFL
because you 'don't want to deal' w/ an immutable
characteristic is telling as it pertains to one's
character.

-->

>I'm sure there were plenty coaches/teams who
>didn't want to 'deal with' Jackie Robinson as well.
>And alike Mr. Dungy, they were egregiously on the
>wrong side of history.
>
>-->

Can you expound upon your statement?

nothing to expound on. I wrote it clear as day.

Yes, Sam coming into the GOP'd out NFL as its first
openly gay player is a significant moment. Not as
significant as the transcendent Jackie Robinsom moment,
but transcendent in its own right.

Mad?



-->

>nothing to expound on. I wrote it clear as day.
>
>Yes, Sam coming into the GOP'd out NFL as its first
>openly gay player is a significant moment. Not as
>significant as the transcendent Jackie Robinsom moment,
>but transcendent in its own right.
>
>Mad?
>
>
>
>-->

I merely asked you if you could expound upon your statement. You did that. In other words, if you're looking for an argument talk to other posters.

You posting real yt right now.

You cant equate sexual politics with racism/ classism. Black players were discriminated against because of racis, capitalism and the USA legacy of free labor aka slavery.

Several players were better than Robinson, and seen as not the right guy because they wouldnt kiss white racist ass.

Those "struggles" are not the same

>You cant equate sexual politics with racism/ classism.

The civil rights movement is about civil rights...somehow it became only attached to one group but civil rights is an inclusive umbrella -
no one group has a monopoly on civil rights.

Are differing situations that trigger civil rights protections ever exactly the same? Of course not. Nobody is saying that the nation's deep history of racism against blacks is the same as homophobia or prejudices against gays, or misogyny and the repression of women's rights. But they all fall within the purview of civil rights.

Either you ride for civil rights for all or you nit-pick where you want it to apply (most likely because of a prejudice that one doesn't want to admit).


-->

allowed to stay in the same hotels and eat in the same restaurants as his teammates. He won't have to leave town in the middle of the night because a mob is coming to kill him. He won't have entire stadiums screaming offensive chants at him. He won't have opposing coaches verbally assault him during a game.

No message

No message

No message

furthermore, people can compare one aspect of a thing (in this case, how hesitant GMs/Coaches are) w/o doing an injustice tit-for-tat.

BLACK PEOPLE in America didn't celebrate Jackie Robinson when he broke the color line...which would be pretty untrue..

if you want to say that many whites....or some Whites..or the white establishment or pro-segregationists didn't celebrate Jackie Robinson that would be true....but Black people and some really liberal Whites did celebrate him..

and trust me.... Michael Sam is going to deal with plenty of stuff ..in particular if he makes the 52 man roster....not likely in his own locker room....not likely on the field by opponents...but by fans ...including those in St. Louis.. (go to the post dispatch rams message board right now and see how many so-called ram fans are talking shit about Sam right today)

trust me.... there are parts of this country where he's going to have to deal with sutff

>BLACK PEOPLE in America didn't celebrate Jackie Robinson when
>he broke the color line...which would be pretty untrue..
>
>if you want to say that many whites....or some Whites..or the
>white establishment or pro-segregationists didn't celebrate
>Jackie Robinson that would be true....but Black people and
>some really liberal Whites did celebrate him..

The majority of the country did not and there was no political correctness then so people didn't have to hide it


>and trust me.... Michael Sam is going to deal with plenty of
>stuff ..in particular if he makes the 52 man roster....not
>likely in his own locker room....not likely on the field by
>opponents...but by fans ...including those in St. Louis.. (go
>to the post dispatch rams message board right now and see how
>many so-called ram fans are talking shit about Sam right
>today)

People talk shit on every message board, the folks on the post dispatch message board are a special kind of morons and I rarely go there. But overall I doubt if same has any problems in St.Louis, unlike the surrounding area St Louis is extremely liberal, on pride weekend a few weeks ago our mayor married 4 same-sex couples in a direct challenge to the statewide ban.

>trust me.... there are parts of this country where he's going
>to have to deal with sutff

It will be nowhere close to what Jackie dealt with. Nowhere close.

they are different - but they both are
related to one equating principle: civil rights.

That's what you don't get (or don't want to get).

-->

People who had a problem with both are on the wrong
side of history.

there are many differences, of course. the fact that black athletes faced a very real, at times codified barrier and that there was really no way for them to "pass" either. the social climate of the country and of sports is also very different. there is little question both are more accepting now than they were 70 years ago.

that just means some people have learned from history's mistakes.

by comparing it with the mass enslavement, exploitation and colonization of another people.

There is no comparison.

Like Richard Pyror said where was the Gay community when niggas was getting their heads beat in? OH thats they were splitting negro wigs too.

It kind of irks me when a group (it's not just black folks, Jews and other groups do it, too) act like they only give a shit of the persecution and injustice measures up to their own. As a threshold matter, gays have been persecuted, closeted and even killed across many societies and many centuries. That doesn't suffice as a struggle? Time to look at why any connection seems to offend you instead of looking for small-picture rationales that let you shout "BUT IT'S NOT THE SAME!"

Of course it's not the same, but is it similar?

It'd be much more efficient to man up
and just speak honestly so that you can
abandon the wild semantics.

You don't believe gays should be afforded equitable
human & civil rights - including the right to work -
unhindered by unreasonable obstacles.

People kill me when they go on this roundabout diatribe
to try and passively-aggressive say what they aren't
bold enough to say outright.

-->

not civil rights.

One is a cultural phenomenon spearheaded by the same faction that fought against human rights misnomered civil rights aka Rich white people.

Jackie Robinson wasn't apart of some agenda to promote awareness he was there to raise revenue why because the Negro Leagues had better talent and was economically self sustaining.

They are not the same in any way shape or fashion.

News at 11.

but he's entitled to his opinion like everyone else.

it's like his gayness makes people feel like they can't just say he's mediocre at best and they end up saying some phobic shit.

.. as an authority figure for a young man learning to cope with life's obstacles

but when he tries to play morality/"distraction" police criticism about his ability to take care of his own family are fully justified.

and he gave HIS opinion. Tony Dungy knows more about professional football than anybody on this board.

.

Dungy is vocally opposed to gay marriage and discriminatory comments come as naturally to him as an awkward conversation with Rodney Harrison. he opens himself up to criticism of his own family when he wants to deny human rights based on the "sanctity" husband-and-wife.

that said, fighting back with "your son killed himself because you're a bigot" (no matter what level of truthfulness) has a cruelty to it that's hard to support either. it's not bigotry, but operates with the same lack of human decency.

see, that's how outrage flopping works. you can be a complete piece of shit when an outrage riot break out, because no one's really looking at you.

well, i see this. shitty thing to say.

shut the fuck up, pops

if you don't see what's wrong with reading the statements of someone you disagree with, and replying to those statements with "see, this is why your son committed suicide" then I don't really know what to tell you.

>if you don't see what's wrong with reading the statements of
>someone you disagree with, and replying to those statements
>with "see, this is why your son committed suicide" then I
>don't really know what to tell you.

And I think Dungy is either a hypocrite or a liar here.

..while there is certainly hypocrisy shown, to react in malice because you don't share that opinion is even worse.

i've shown nothing but respect for dungy over the years, but i vehemently disagree with his stance & approach here.

that said, has a right to his opinion.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

because reasonable people, even those of us who are very supportive of the gay community, can disagree with dungy's stance against gay marriage and not have to nuke rational dialogue with overcompensatory hyper-moralizing bullshit.

it's reminds of chait debating coates. suddenly, chait's a fucking racist for having DARED to disagree with black folks on some shit.

for some of us, it's very easy to understand that some christians are A-OK with gay people, but not with gay marriage. i don't have like that shit, man. i ain't religious, but i don't dismiss people's beliefs. people don't disagree for fun. you're too lazy to take the time to parse the details and sort through the emotional and polemic minutiae, instead resorting to catch-all labels and logic-leaping based on crass cultural and religious correlations.

y'all niggas take shortcuts on emotionally sensitive issues because it's easier than conceding you MIGHT be wrong in some aspect of your stance. i wouldn't be surprised if i joined truth and slice and whoever else on the OKP "homophobes" list because of my stance on this "controversy." because y'all dudes lazy thinkers, man.

tongy dungy is one man who answered one question based on his PROFESSIONAL experiences.

he wasn't coaching the eagles when they signed vick and he didn't force the eagles to take him. that ain't got shit to do with anything. y'all wanna shoehorn it in there, but it has nothing to do with the question he answered.

if we wanna question his character based on that vick shit, then let's bring in ALL OF IT. vick was just one of the many young black men mentored by dungy while they sat in prison, hopeless and lost. that's the man i respect.

and i still respect him after his answer to ONE question.

you derailing derailing derailing when we live in a universe where it is entirely possible to be a good man who has done great things for many young men and an exceptional coach but also be a bigot when it comes to gay people.

this ain't about one question.

>this ain't about one question.

but, i'm the one derailing.

we can leave it here. i see you.

lawrence taylor was a living distraction. 32/32 GMs would give three inches off their dick to have him, even the ones you don't have an inch to spare.

well of-fucking-course bigots. but michael sam is oooonnnnllly very good at football so fuck giving him a chance.

Gay? DISTRACTION.

That is fucking LT, you'd be a fool not to take him distractions and all.
Even coming outta college people figured he was a potential beast, and history books proved that right.
Meanwhile we're talking about a kid who needs to do all he can to maintain that roster spot as a last day draft pick.... as do many guys who is a last day pick & fighting for their football lives.

Unless he does anything that separates him from the pack & surprises people in training camp... he'll just be a feel good story that brings attention to himself & not just "being a part of the team". This kid the first distraction ever... we had those in all of sports history... just among the few of his type.

people looking for "football" reasons not to draft dude are making excuses.

lol @ "distraction". foh, in a sport where you got all these motherfuckers with rap sheets? (also, lol... notice how there's a lot more fucked up dudes in football than say... B-Ball? hmmm...)

>people looking for "football" reasons not to draft dude are
>making excuses.
>
>lol @ "distraction". foh, in a sport where you got all these
>motherfuckers with rap sheets? (also, lol... notice how
>there's a lot more fucked up dudes in football than say...
>B-Ball? hmmm...)


-->

Dingy surely advised against that pick right?

been said that. jason collins and michael sam ain't really gonna make bigots have to deal. i wanna see a gay player win MVPs and stuff. and watch people have to cope with gay excellence like they gotta see black excellence.

Apparently every other team in the league felt the same way...which is why Sam lasted until the 7th round. Every team in the league had multiple attempts at him and passed.


Download my new mixtape featuring Lecrae, Andy Mineo, Christon Gray and more. Positive Hip Hop: http://www.noistrade.com/wadeoradio

and fell to the seventh round because that's where his draft grade ended up

Dungy's post coaching career business ties to the Christian right wing put him in a position where he probably feels compelled to take a stand against Michael Sam...which is his right to do....but people should understand that his place in groups like the promise keepers and the like make it a given he would take that stance..

but the part that is disappointing is the fact the he is a father of a son who committed suicide...I would think he should have a certain level of sensitivity to this issue.

Teenagers who are dealing with sexuality issues are very high on the list of suicide demographics. Having experienced what he has I would think he would at least be conscious of this, and maybe utilize a level of compassion...

you know I've had my personal issues regarding gay marriage and the socio-political aspects of homosexual issues...but I tell you....You sit across from a young person who has been abandoned and rejected by their families....or who have tried to commit suicide..... who have no place to go because their family has rejected and/or abused them because of their sexuality... you look into the faces of those young people.....and see not only the pain they are dealing with...but then you see the appreciation they have for simply treating them with respect.... for me it makes it difficult...actually..impossible for me to support those who stand against them..or who promote them to be treated unfairly...just can't do it.

and it's disappointing that a man who has dealt with the pain of a child comittiing suicide doesn't understand the consequences of young gay people being rejected.. He can keep his personal opinions and beliefs..but just because the people who read your book may have been interested in your opinion....doesn't mean your opinion hold a weight that you need to make a public stance about...

what kind response they would get when they asked the question. They just needed a story during a slow sports news period.

>what kind response they would get when they asked the
>question. They just needed a story during a slow sports news
>period.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/03/vince-lombardi-accepted-gay-players-on-his-team/

Vince Lombardi accepted gay players on his team

Posted by Michael David Smith on May 3, 2013, 2:41 PM EDT

The ongoing debate about how a gay NFL player would be treated in the locker room has largely focused on the idea that times are changing, and that acceptance of a gay player would be a modern development. But it’s often overlooked that the ultimate example of the old-school football coach was also perfectly fine with having gay players on his team.

Multiple players who played for Vince Lombardi, the legendary former Packers and Redskins coach, say that he knew some of his players were gay, and that not only did he not have a problem with it, but he went out of his way to make sure no one else on his team would make it a problem.

In 1969, Lombardi’s Redskins included a running back named Ray McDonald, who in 1968 had been arrested for having sex with another man in public. In the Lombardi biography When Pride Still Mattered, author David Maraniss writes that Lombardi told his assistants he wanted them to work with McDonald to help him make the team, “And if I hear one of you people make reference to his manhood, you’ll be out of here before your ass hits the ground.”

Lombardi’s daughter Susan told Ian O’Connor of ESPNNewYork.com that her father would have been thrilled to have a player like Jason Collins, the NBA center who publicly revealed this week that he is gay.

“My father was way ahead of his time,” Susan Lombardi said. “He was discriminated against as a dark-skinned Italian American when he was younger, when he felt he was passed up for coaching jobs that he deserved. He felt the pain of discrimination, and so he raised his family to accept everybody, no matter what color they were or whatever their sexual orientation was. I think it’s great what Jason Collins did, because it’s going to open a lot of doors for people. Without a doubt my father would’ve embraced him, and would’ve been very proud of him for coming out.”

Dave Kopay, the first former NFL player to come out, also played on those 1969 Redskins, and he says that while he never told Lombardi, he believes Lombardi knew not only that Kopay was gay, but that Kopay and another Redskins player, Jerry Smith, were in a romantic relationship.

“Lombardi protected and loved Jerry,” Kopay told O’Connor.

Lombardi’s brother Harold was gay, and when Harold died in July of 2011 he was survived by his partner of 41 years — meaning their relationship began just before Vince died in September of 1970. As noted by Doug Farrar of Yahoo! Sports, Vince knew Harold was gay and didn’t just believe in “tolerance” but believed strongly that discrimination against gay people was wrong, just as he was angered when he saw mistreatment of his black players, or discrimination against his fellow Italian-Americans.

If a coach who was considered old-fashioned even by the standards of the 1960s accepted gay players in his locker room, the idea that gay players couldn’t be accepted in an NFL locker room in 2013 is both silly and sad.

A kid who is questionable at 3rd string at best bringing in lots of attention on such a hot topic issue.

I'm leaning towards "nah".

If this was Clowney or Andrew Luck coming out the closet, very few fucks could be given as long as they beast on that field even if they went full flamboyant.

This kid is a feel good story, so was Tebow and even his bandwagon could only run but so far on the fuel that is his limited talent at his respective position.

always surprises me.

I would never have guessed anyone could hate Tony Dungy of all people.

and since homophobic christians love to spout that "the sin not the sinner" rhetoric, i think tony dungy understands where we're coming from on this one.

he wouldn't have picked him for his football team. He didn't have a lot of guys on his football teams for a lot of reasons. Outside of Warren Sapp, Dungy rarely had any kind of controversial players on his roster.

i replied to someone talking about people hating tony dungy.

.

he is a training camp away from not playing in the NFL ever because he is MARGINALLY talented.

His sexual politics have nothing to do with that but that is all the media will harp on.

____________________

<================== MVP

Just like thousands of other white coaches.

He's the reason Peyton won anything.

AND he won Gruden a ring. Dungy almost took that
team to the Superbowl with Shawn King at QB.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I just don't really see a reason to ask questions to answers we already know,especially from old coaches.they're football coaches for a reason
____________________

<================== MVP

If Sam isn't a clearly better option than other prospects, why would a coach want to deal with whatever distractions that may come with it?

I think its understandable for him to feel that way and I wouldn't necessarily call it homophobia either.

But i certainly can understand why other people would have a problem with his comments as well.

>If Sam isn't a clearly better option than other prospects,
>why would a coach want to deal with whatever distractions that
>may come with it?

He never said that. He said "Sam should have a chance to play" but that for him, he wouldn't want to 'deal with it' -- so it's not based on merit, it's based on orientation/sexuality.



-->

to deal with the distractions.

the fact that sam was a top player, but whatever. I'm not defended Dungy. like i said, i can see both sides.

but the fact that he'd put his bigotry aside if he was talented enough only further proves how bigoted he is.

I'm not sure what other "side" there is to see.

level of bigotry and proof of bigotry are two different things

are we really getting hung up on semantics?

The biggest bigot would say he shouldn't be allowed in the NFL period, which isn't what Dungy said.

Assuming that were classifying Dungy as a bigot, a 'bigger' bigot wouldn't want Sam on his team period regardless of how talented of a player he was. I'm not sure how one putting their 'bigotry aside' bc the individual is extremely talented makes them a bigger bigot.

I agree. I misspoke, I meant it's even stronger proof, not that it makes him more of a bigot.

Honestly I don't really care about "levels" of being a bigot or a racist.

People go from zero to hate in a second, even if your belief may not have anything to do with a statement or decision.

And whoever compared Sam to Jackie Robinson is just wrong.

____________________

<================== MVP

Dungy publicly stated he would not have drafted Honeybadger too!

http://www.danpatrick.com/2013/04/30/tony-dungy-weighs-in-on-jason-collins-tim-tebow-and-honey-badger/

Is he anti-weed? anti-blond? cmon!

As for Vick, the angle was forgiveness (supremely talented, convicted, served time, deserved another chance)

As for Sam (undersized, 7th round pick, unsure of ability to start, gay movement pressure for playing time and media Q&A) ... thats a lot for any coach to have to consider for a person drafted so late.

Challenger-

and they probably do a lot more protesting, so if his angle is "distractions" his point makes no sense. and if he believes Sam should get a chance, which he does, then everything about his statement is garbage.

people should find another reason to justify Dungy's homophobia.

When you've lobbied on behalf of players, telling teams to set aside the distractions they bring to the table, then you forfeit the right to say "I wouldn't draft him based on the distraction."

If he'd said, "it's an issue of talent," folks would've been skeptical due to his views on homosexuality, but it would've been about ten times less controversial. Basing his opinion exclusively on the level of distraction is either hypocrisy or a lie.

Pick and "justified" distractions in support of that player?

The elephant in the room is that we are discussing a low draft pick (as in 5th from the bottom of the draft) that comes with a lot of media coverage. That's not a good recipe for team success, no?

We can't assume his Christianity as the reason for his thoughts any more than his being drafted so low is due to lack of talent by Michael.

Otherwise how would we be responding from an equal or superior position to Tony?

Challenger-

... then you draft him. Shy of being a murderer or a drug user, no distraction will be that terrible, especially when it's something as positive as being a gay role model.

If you think he doesn't, then cool. Don't draft him.

But don't blame the distraction. If he had the talent to make the team, you'd take the distraction gladly and not care.

If Dungy wasn't going to draft him because the talent doesn't justify the level of distraction or whatever (not what he said, mind you, but if he had said that), then it's obvious the problem isn't the distraction, it's the lack of talent. And then say it's the talent.

For a 7th round pick. Yes his being gay is a factor. It's why the reality show was even offered, it's why anyone cared so much for a low draft pick, it's why people overreact at the slightest perceived diss ... But that doesn't mean Tony is being homophobic.

"distractions" keep talented players off of rosters all the time, in all sports (see T.O. as exhibit A, A.I., etc.)

The problem w/all of this backlash to Dungy is that it was done without full context and people ran with their interpretation of what he meant by making assumptions based on his overt Christian beliefs. A prejudice position not unlike he was being accused.

It's all good, we can just agree on having a different take on the issue.

Challenger-

And it shouldn't be a factor in this discussion.

A week AFTER the draft (May 16th).

And yes it should be a factor. A 7th round pick, a contract that is not guaranteed and a media circus fed by a reality show is to be taken into consideration.

Sam isn't viewed as a 'difference maker' so the circus is not tolerable. Vick would be and proved to be so.

Challenger-

I was wrong on the date, though it appears the NFL knew the day of the draft. (The RAMS did not). It was then canceled after the Rams advised it was NOT a good idea.

http://www.tmz.com/2014/05/16/michael-sam-reality-show-on-hold-after-realizing-it-pissed-off-the-rams/

Challenger-

either way (or, more likely, a little of both), not a good look at all for him. so far there's been one distraction about Sam: Dungy talking out of pocket about him.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

That would definitely have been a distraction

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

right now, when teams are actually starting camps, the only distraction is Dungy's foot in his mouth.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

when his personal beliefs are already widely know.

while running a football team.

is why Michael Sam wasn't drafted until the 7th round.

he said HE wouldn't have taken him and gave his reasons, which are fair game to pick apart. he also said that sam deserves a shot and wished him the best, which somehow doesn't matter because HE wouldn't take him on HIS team.

ain't nobody gettin prize money for outrage, y'all.

and on the low...this is get back for him riding for vick. at this point, white folk should just have some thugs steal tony's belongings and arrest him when he tries to get it back.

okay, i'm cysin it, but there's still some really hurt butts about vick, which i wouldn't have known before yesterday.

and i object to the idea people are frying him for saying "distraction" because they were already mad at his quote in the original article that set this in motion. he ain't say shit about "distraction" there.

Was no comment. Just cuz they ask, doesnt mean you have to answer.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

He's an intelligent man, but he clearly don't know a political landmine when he see one.

/sarcasm

no one thought he would draft an openly gay player. this is stupid.

I seem to recall Kiper and McShay having him around there in their mocks before his announcement.

Everyone keeps bringing up the "marginal talent" argument as if he wasn't the co-DPOY in the best defensive conference in the country. Usually the foundation for the "marginal talent" argument is "well, he was drafted in the seventh round, so..." when I seem to recall his projection notably higher in the draft before he came out.

i remember him being projected as a mid round pick like 3rd to 5th round
that was before that shitty combine though

he announced, he dropped from 3rd round value to 4-5th round value. then his bad combine and he was being talked about as maybe not getting drafted (though some cowardly anonymous GMs talked ish about him not getting drafted as the story came out)

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

I don't really think just saying 3rd-to-5th before they get to workouts is specific enough.

That just means the draft nicks are leaving a huge window to hedge into once they have more information and actually talk to scouts individually or at the combine.

It was pretty clear he was going 4th at best after the combine but more likely 5-6th.

Mind you I'm not saying he didn't drop on some teams boards over the issue, just that he wasn't the type of blue-chip prospect/litmus test where teams would have had to wrestle with their decision early.

until the day after he came out.

i don't keep old mock draft on hand for tired debates about justifying the bigotry/cowardice of ex-coaches, sorry.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

>I seem to recall Kiper and McShay having him around there in
>their mocks before his announcement.
>
>Everyone keeps bringing up the "marginal talent" argument as
>if he wasn't the co-DPOY in the best defensive conference in
>the country. Usually the foundation for the "marginal talent"
>argument is "well, he was drafted in the seventh round, so..."
>when I seem to recall his projection notably higher in the
>draft before he came out.
>

His combine didn't help either. And the DPOY thing is a bit overrated because if you look at the previous winners, he's not on the level of most of those guys. It sucks that him being gay is an issue but it's also the reason he has one of the top selling jerseys so he has benefited from this too. If he proves himself on the field, this "distraction" talk will become mute.

as far as football is concerned? yall gotta be fucking kidding me now..

>as far as football is concerned? yall gotta be fucking
>kidding me now..

a mike vick level distraction is worth it..a mike sam level aint..

nor have we seen the "distractions" yet, which were nonexistent when Jason Collins was playing this past season. granted football is a different beast, but i think it's all being overblown to justify some sh*tty views.

>as far as football is concerned? yall gotta be fucking
>kidding me now..


I think u r totally missing the point....

The comparisons stick because Dungy never made an attempt to allude to playing a role in helping Vick (who I believe got a raw deal) return to the league...

In other words, Dungy would have came off a lot more sympathetic if he were to say that it was easy to deal with a distraction like Michael Vick because he was a former Pro Bowler who at that point was still easily one of the most gifted athletes in the NFL. Whereas Michael Sam is not worth the distraction because he doesn't have the talent of a Vick. Such honesty would have been a breath of fresh air...

But that's not what happened...Instead, Dungy made a general statement about Sam being a diversion, which due to his right-wing religious ties came off looking suspect...For that reason, Dungy came off looking like a hypocrite given his past with helping troubled NFL players come back to the league....

cmon dude..if he says ..look this dude is a 7th rd pick with a reality show..hes just not worth it..thats okay..

>cmon dude..if he says ..look this dude is a 7th rd pick with
>a reality show..hes just not worth it..thats okay..

Come on dog....We ain't trying to be mind readers....

This is what Dungy said: "Not because I don't believe Michael Sam should have a chance to play, but I wouldn't want to deal with all of it..."

Again, dude can easily be viewed as being hypocritical from that GENERAL statement...But Dungy would have come off much better if he was just honest and say Vick was worth the risk.

n/m

make this statement?? FUcK and NO

>make this statement?? FUcK and NO

Again...nobody is a mind reader, dog....

to that one dogg..

>to that one dogg..


Nah....What I'm saying is you have to be more direct when making such a statement...

When Tebow was igniting that crazy shit storm wise talking heads and journalists made it a point to dissect his throwing motion, his lack of vision, and the fact that he couldn't run a pro style offense as the underlining reason that he wasn't worth the distraction...

The fact that people were being very specific in their criticism of Tebow provided his critics with the cover they needed just in case someone screamed that they were simply mad because a devout Christian was getting by on his "good guy" image, strong Christian Fundamentalist support and college popularity....But at least Tebow got the chance to suit up and play in the NFL...Dungy is already burying Sam before he even gets the chance to make the team...

The kid (Sam) has yet to even play a down in the NFL. And he already has Dungy saying he's a distraction...lol

The fact that Dungy already made up his mind about the kid before he even tried to make an NFL team is telling. That's why people are getting on him (alongside his "mentoring" of other distractions...)

If you are going to criticize someone it's best not to speak in generalities...Because that whole "distraction" comment without specifics reads like bullshit given the NFL is filled with (and have been filled with) rapists, women beaters, drug abusers, and people who have actually murdered folks...

Dungy is smarter than this.

with a talented player like Clowney or a Manziel but for people like Tim Tebow or Michael Sam a lot of people pass.

Tebow had some issues but he had some success too and at the very least could be a backup somewhere even if they just use him to run the Wildcat but a lot of teams would rather not have to deal with a backup QB that may be more popular than your starter even though he's less talented because that type of thing can be a huge DISTRACTION for the team.

bcz of decisions hes made regarding players and actions on the field...so this is the angle people should be taking...but you know how it is..once he reppd vick..they couldnt wait to find somewhere to poke holes in this NIGGA...

>with a talented player like Clowney or a Manziel but for
>people like Tim Tebow or Michael Sam a lot of people pass.
>
>Tebow had some issues but he had some success too and at the
>very least could be a backup somewhere even if they just use
>him to run the Wildcat but a lot of teams would rather not
>have to deal with a backup QB that may be more popular than
>your starter even though he's less talented because that type
>of thing can be a huge DISTRACTION for the team.


Again...this ^^^^ is all true....Straight no chaser. And I doubt people would be getting at Dungy if he spelled out your very clear headed, honest point....

But that's not what happened...

Given Dungy's Christian Fundamentalist-Right Wing ties people simply connected the dots...

>Tebow had some issues but he had some success too and at the
>very least could be a backup somewhere even if they just use
>him to run the Wildcat but a lot of teams would rather not
>have to deal with a backup QB that may be more popular than
>your starter even though he's less talented because that type
>of thing can be a huge DISTRACTION for the team.

the problem with Tebow wasn't his popularity (otherwise, he'd have stuck with the Pats) but that you want your 2nd QB to run the same system as your 1st and Tebow couldn't do that. he couldn't run an offense. he couldn't throw accurately enough. he wasn't worth keeping on the roster as a QB.

didn't have shit to do with his popularity. you can't be more popular than Brady in new england but he got cut right quick.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

>the problem with Tebow wasn't his popularity (otherwise, he'd
>have stuck with the Pats) but that you want your 2nd QB to run
>the same system as your 1st and Tebow couldn't do that. he
>couldn't run an offense. he couldn't throw accurately enough.
>he wasn't worth keeping on the roster as a QB.
>
>didn't have shit to do with his popularity. you can't be more
>popular than Brady in new england but he got cut right quick.

Obviously he can't do what Brady does in New England but there are some shit QB's around the league that are a lot worse than Tebow. I mean if you just look at the 3 NFL teams in the state of Florida, you're telling be Tebow is not better than the majority of the QB's those teams had on their rosters last season>

when he wasn't even projected that high.

sam because people are immediately going go at his religious affiliation
if dungy would have came out and said sam is flat out garbage people would have attributed it to dungy being religious
other people can say sam might not make a roster but dungy needs to just fall back on commenting on dude until a consensus develops around his skill level

I'm honestly asking cause I didn't watch him at all. just looking at it on a surface level, almost all SEC DPOYs were drafted in the 1st. obviously that doesn't tell the whole story, and I know not everyone who's won an award in college gets drafted high or adjusts well to the Pros. but I have a REALLY tough time believing that he could have that much success in the SEC and only one GM was sold on him skill-wise, even taking into account a bad combine.

Be honest too

but it still seems like a long jump from "you're the best in the SEC this year" to "you're barely even drafted".

U know what's funny? How the kid is already a distraction even before making the team....lol

I say let the kid fall on his face (or prove his worth) and then the story will be told...

That will give the football heads (and bigots...the two are not the same) plenty of justification and specifics on why they long felt that Sam was not worth the distraction....

from the draft until dungy's comments. i get the feeling the only "distraction" is going to be other people's views on him popping up now and again. they'll be shot down and then the rams and sam move on.

also, if he's a late-rounder you can easily cut him if there really are distractions. you invested next to nothing and no one could really claim you were being unfair since you drafted him in the first place.

>from the draft until dungy's comments. i get the feeling the
>only "distraction" is going to be other people's views on him
>popping up now and again. they'll be shot down and then the
>rams and sam move on.

But its not like Dungy just randomly offered his opinion, he was asked as specific question for a news story by a reporter who already knew what the answer would be.


>also, if he's a late-rounder you can easily cut him if there
>really are distractions. you invested next to nothing and no
>one could really claim you were being unfair since you drafted
>him in the first place.

look, this simply WON'T be as big of a distraction as dog fighting. PETA still shits on Vick every chance they get and Vick's tried everything he can to work with them and be a model citizen. they'll talk about this story on the first week of the season and make passing references throughout the season (probably just about how well he's handled it). no one really cares once the football is being played. look at manti te'o, for instance. that was forgotten before the season even began.

>look, this simply WON'T be as big of a distraction as dog
>fighting. PETA still shits on Vick every chance they get and
>Vick's tried everything he can to work with them and be a
>model citizen. they'll talk about this story on the first week
>of the season and make passing references throughout the
>season (probably just about how well he's handled it). no one
>really cares once the football is being played. look at manti
>te'o, for instance. that was forgotten before the season even
>began.

Manti Te'o isn't gay though and it's more about the distraction in the
locker room. I don't think they care about the media circus as much as
the locker room. How many players are honestly ready for an openly gay
teammate? Sure they say the right things in front of the camera but a
lot of them dudes aren't ready for it.

for one thing, they're hired to do a job and have no say in the matter, so if the coach says "shut up and play" then that's the end of it. and if you listened to fisher talk after the draft then you'd be fairly certain he's not gonna let this become an issue. it's the media that's out of his control. but back to your point about the locker room:

the only thing i can think of that could possibly be a "distraction" in the locker room is what everyone brings up: how awkward it will be in the showers. i'm pretty sure sam is aware of that and isn't gonna try to overstep boundaries or anything (not that he would normally, plus he's in a committed relationship and all). and let's be honest, NFL players know they've played with gay players at some point in their career, just not openly gay ones. if they're hesitant of playing with any gay guy for fear of shower rape or whatever, it should probably be the closeted one rather than the open one.

>i'm pretty sure sam is
>aware of that and isn't gonna try to overstep boundaries or
>anything (not that he would normally, plus he's in a committed
>relationship and all)

athletic ability to switch to linebacker at the NFL level like some other undersized college defensive ends have. So at best he'll probably be like a 3rd string situational pass rusher/special teams player.

After not doing much his first 3 years at Mizzou Sam had a great senior year. Hee played on a pretty good defense that led the entire SEC with 41 sacks. Kony Ealy was the DE opposite Sam and he usually drew the most attention. If you look at the games a lot of Sam's sacks are hustle sacks where a teammate flushes the QB out and Sam's great motor helped him to be in the right place at the right time to clean up. He had 9 of his 11.5 sacks in 3 games against inferior opponents but didn't do much in others.

This article kind of breaks it down:
http://mmqb.si.com/2014/02/13/michael-sam-film-study-nfl-draft/

>. He had
>9 of his 11.5 sacks in 3 games against inferior opponents but
>didn't do much in others.
>
>This article kind of breaks it down:
>http://mmqb.si.com/2014/02/13/michael-sam-film-study-nfl-draft/
>

honestly, I think the combine killed dude

he's undersized for an NFL DE

and then he put up slow times and low reps

he might get some tick as an OLB in a 3-4 defense

but now you're talking about a rookie

with the above mentioned concerns

learning to play a new position in the NFL

I think that's why he fell

best case scenario for his rookie year

he makes the team as a special teams player

and can learn on the job how to adjust to another position

I don't think he can cut it at DE in the NFL

my $.02

It happens

but if you had to choose between 2 players with equal ability, that is:

1. Undersized
2. Not elite athletes
3. Practice/3rd String level

One is the first openly gay dude ever to declare prior to the draft and one is just a normal dude, who would you pick?

Chances are the player will be cut either way so do you want to deal with the over exposure and pressures that go along with it? or just deal with a late round pick, business as usual, he didn't work out so you cut him type situation.

Just asking...

In my opinion, chances are that picking the first openly gay guy creates some potential obstacles that wouldn't have to be dealt with otherwise. I wouldn't blame a guy for not picking him...but I would certainly celebrate the organization that went out of there way to deal with the extra shit for no clear cut gain other than breaking a barrier of some sort.

Only if the player is an elite talent? An average-to-benchwarmer talent that is openly gay... it's understandable if a team doesn't want to draft him based on distraction?

I'm asking a non-patronizing, non-leading, agenda-free question: for people who understand why the NFL GMs would pass on a gay player due to distraction, what should non-elite gay players who want to be in the NFL do? Surely the answer isn't "stay in the closet" and surely the answer isn't "find another dream," so what is the answer? Do we really need to wait for a Pro Bowler to come out for people to be okay with it... or would that still be more of a distraction than the Vicks/Tebows/Manziels of the world? What's the line?

Like the above poster said, the 1st organization that does it does deserve to be celebrated...but not every organization wants to deal with it.

It's understandable to me at least.

Until it's being gay, that is.

then all the sudden people act like the NFL employs nothing but choir boys and good samaritans and this Michael Sam fellow is just going upset the delicate balance of propriety and low profile gentlemen, my heavens! * * drops monocle * *

The regular acceptance of accused rapists, people who commit manslaughter, people with violence or weapons issues, people who torture animals to death, white people who use the n-word. Please.

Half the teams in the league fall over themselves offering excuses or just ignoring issues, as long as it means talent on the field.

But being gay? Nah, that's too much for a weak willed and powerless coach like poor little TONY FUCKING DUNGY to handle.

You know how much shit Aaron Hernandez had to pull for him to get bumped from the first to fourth round?

And the Pats STILL kept him around for years knowing full well what a sociopath he was.

This shit is a joke. Double-standards as far as the eye can see.

It's classic bigotry, coming from a guy who openly admits that gay people do not deserve equal civil rights.

And people in here talking about "football reasons" and "seeing both sides of the issue".

lol 4everrrrrrr

you're a borderline prospect competing for a NFL roster spot this slightest thing can either shift things in your favor or work against you.

Are coaches not going to want a player just because of his sexual preference? Probably not, but if that player is going to get a whole bunch of extra media requests and wants to do reality shows and appearances that's going to require extra work from the teams PR staff why not just go with another guy who is just as good that you don't have to deal with all of that with?

And yes, Fisher and the Rams have kind of squashed some of the stuff Sam and his handlers had in store and they have complied for now but there could have even been a lot backlash from that for Rams.

No message

A TV show isn't the best idea for a rookie, but in fairness I believe it was supposed to be more of a documentary series than what we currently define as "reality shows" (correct me if I'm wrong on that though). i can see where there would be a lot of interest in that, and most likely it wouldn't go wrong from a publicity standpoint, but i understand why they don't want cameras around all over the place. that's fair. everything else should be fine though. a few more interviews here and there aren't a problem, and those will likely peter out after the first week or so. the most likely scenario is that the hoopla dies down and then they still have new fans and merch sales by being the first team to do this.

the homophobe bin?

just asking, cuz they're out there.

remember when everyone wouldn't shut up about the catfishing thing? i mean, people brought it up EVERY game and that story will NEVER disappear.

and was part of one of the biggest media circuses in recent NFL history?

man, he and his team never recovered from that.

game and didn't play until week 4 or 5 in regular season and by then a lot of people had forgotten about him, lol

naw they were still talking about the catfish shit when the eagles played them (teo was out for that game)
teo ain't all that but he's starter quality for that team at least
he basically did what michael sam has to do to avoid any distraction
stfu and play/contribute on the field

>game and didn't play until week 4 or 5 in regular season and
>by then a lot of people had forgotten about him, lol

ppl already acknowledged that the m.sam distraction shit would be deaded if he produced on the field

THAT Tay-oh?
Mr. Heisman candidate Tay-oh?
Mr rumoured to be gay but oh no it is only gay-lite (bicuriousity) with a lil bit of catfished throwd in Tay-oh?

Te'o is like six levels above Sam in the skills dept
both were undersized for their positions
Both had horrible combines
Both had controversy surrounding them
Both draft stock dropped because of horrible combine and all that media frenzy around them

I'm not sure how Te'o still has a job as much as he blew coverages and just got flat out BURNT on the chargers (i watched like six games with Houston's biggest charger fan last season)

the faux outrage machine is ruining sports commentary now.


----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

Tony Dungy's religious views are often bigoted.

Michael Sam's actual NFL abilities have yet to be confirmed.

Tony Dungy's comments in this instance can be easily construed as bigoted, even if they are not.

The ONLY reason in today's NFL why media circus distractions are dealt with, tolerated, unpunished, is PERFORMANCE.

Tony may believe he's a marginal talent and isn't willing to deal with the historic nature of it for someone he doesn't think is going to last in this league.

Doesn't really matter ultimately. Thankfully with sports, players at least have the opportunity to prove themselves where it really counts.

Hopefully Sam gets that opportunity one way or the other, because on both sides of the fence, his sexuality will be made an issue. Would be nicer if he was a serious baller and it become moot in the discussion.

and no one needs to settle for that.

he's a legitimate nfl prospect. that's all he needs to be right now. we're like 2 generations past the point where someone should have to be EXCEPTIONALLY great for people to get off their backs about being different.

fuckin homosexuals and advocates and your false outrage.

Theres nothing to be fucking mad about here. People carefully choosing words and ya'll still mad. So what about the read between the lines, hes just using that as an excuse bullshit. It has fucking merit. The wack ass rookie was trying to sell himself and be a distraction. Jason Collins only came out for the attention. John Amechi (sp? because he sucks too) the same. 98% of the world gives two shits.

There's much more important things to advocate for. There's kids dying in my neighborhood and in black neighborhoods all over this country (US) at holocaust rates, folks are in jail at record numbers, education is being taken over by shitty corporations. People are fucking hurting for real.

You gay advocate crying pieces of shit kill me with the false outrage. You're like the new whiny white bitch of the first world.

Shut your comfortable bitch asses the fuck up and live.

Shit.

carry on with losing your shit.

I was going to tell them "Hey, I'm allergic to mushrooms and at any rate you screwed up my order." But then I thought of the children and I just shut up and ate my sandwich.

There is ALWAYS a bigger problem than the one at hand, numbnuts.

I don't think Sam was trying to "hype himself," looking at any mock he actually lost standing in the draft. Collins and Amaechi, sure, I guess (and it worked).

People are seeing the broader wackness of the NFL. It's also a racist institution.

YOU'RE ALL JUST LOOKING FOR ATTENTION! STAY IN THE CLOSET!

and people wonder why this is a big deal.

ConcreteCharlie you're a special kind of dummy. The hype I'm speaking of was the planned reality show that he signed off on for a large chunk of cash. That shit is as distracting as it gets.

And no one said stay in the closet, but the Gay East Coaster shit needs to stop "LOOK AT ME GUYS IM QUEER, I HOPE IT MAKES SOMEONE MAD SO I CAN BE OUTRAGED"

Watch and learn from your west coast and french predecessors.

This bullshit doesn't deserve any attention.

>
>And no one said stay in the closet, but the Gay East Coaster
>shit needs to stop "LOOK AT ME GUYS IM QUEER, I HOPE IT MAKES
>SOMEONE MAD SO I CAN BE OUTRAGED"
>
>Watch and learn from your west coast and french predecessors.

I don't even know what this means.

if it doesn't deserve any attention, then why do you seem to give so much of a fuck?

peace

LOL TEXAS AND MISSOURI ARE THE EAST COAST NOW!

>Watch and learn from your west coast and french predecessors.

Oh word, SF gay culture didn't flaunt itself? f'reals?

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/07/22/bernstein-confused-dungy-in-conflict-with-himself/

Confused Dungy In Conflict With Himself
July 22, 2014 9:40 AM

By Dan Bernstein-
CBSChicago.com senior columnist

(CBS) For whatever reason, Tony Dungy is a powerful man. No longer an NFL head coach, he now inhabits a lofty, unique spot as an amalgam of studio analyst, league consultant and televangelist, and he always seems to become involved in pro football’s big story of the day.

He is also a bigot, aligning vocally against marriage equality and homosexuality itself in a way consistent with his kind of retail-level religiosity that sells thousands of poorly written books to stupid people. Yesterday, he made it clear that Michael Sam, the Rams’ draft pick trying to become the NFL’s first openly gay player, would be unwelcome on his team.

“I wouldn’t have taken him,” Dungy told the Tampa Tribune. “Not because I don’t believe Michael Sam should have a chance to play, but I wouldn’t want to deal with all of it.

“It’s not going to be totally smooth … Things will happen.”

He didn’t say what “things,” nor did he explain why anything would occur on a properly coached team. When the Miami Dolphins were the subject of examination during the Richie Incognito workplace-harassment scandal, Dungy was quite clear on how things work. “You have to have respect for your fellow players,” he said. “It has to start in the management. It has to start with the coaches and general manager creating a safe environment, and the players have to carry it on from there.”

“I’m not sure what happens in the Dolphins’ locker room, but what you have to have is the head coach and general manager setting the tone, setting the agenda, and then the player leadership has to make sure that’s carried out.”

Except not when any of it applies to a gay man. Dungy either believes he’s incapable of controlling his team to the point of protecting a player, or he is saying he would not choose to do so because he would want “things” to happen. Either the coach is in control or he is not. If he is, as Dungy says, then there should be no issues. Here is Colonel Jessup under cross-examination, insisting on the strength of the chain of his command to the point that it indicts him.

And when it comes to having to “deal with all of it,” Dungy has gone out of his way to use his public position to embrace two of the league’s most polarizing players. Before Tim Tebow was drafted, Dungy said “I think he’s going to be a great player in the NFL,” saying he would select him in the top 10. Years later he still supported Tebow in his quest to find employment, writing that, “The Lord has a good spot for you. He’s going to give you the right situation. Wait for the Lord to show you that team and be ready to go.”

The Lord is a far better evaluator of quarterbacking than Dungy, as he apparently saw the same astonishingly bad passing as the rest of us and showed Tebow the door. No team wanted the circus in town for somebody who can’t throw.

Dungy could certainly deal with Michael Vick, too, becoming his full-time mentor and spiritual guru and spokesman for his return from prison, telling the world that Vick deserved a chance and that any distraction wasn’t too much for a locker room. This role as official re-sanitizer of wayward talent is something Dungy seems to relish, having also slapped his godly seal of approval on LeGarrette Blount so the former Oregon back could sign with the Titans in 2010.

Blount’s college coach has also been the lucky recipient of Dungy’s fatherly wisdom, after Eagles receiver Riley Cooper was caught on tape tossing around the n-word at a Kenny Chesney concert. Coach Chip Kelly cared enough about what Dungy thought to seek his counsel, and Dungy said, “I told him to trust his instincts. He can use this as a teaching moment, and his decision could pull this team together. Chip will make the right decision. He doesn’t care what the popular opinion is. He cares about what’s right.”

So we have this all correct: Blatant racism can be used to pull a team together, but a single gay man on a roster is just too much to bear, somehow threatening everything.

I wonder what Dungy thinks about having coached defensive tackle Esera Tuaolo on the Vikings from 1992 to 1995. More importantly, I wonder what the openly gay Tuaolo thinks.

We know what Vince Lombardi would think, having ensured the protection and professional treatment of gay players on his teams half a century ago. That was someone who did care genuinely about what was right and would have harsh words for Dungy’s shameful behavior.

Dungy was the first African-American head coach to win a Super Bowl, owing a debt not only to Fritz Pollard, Art Shell and others but those with the courage and forward thinking to give them chances despite the threat of public backlash or controversy. Dungy’s opportunity came after others pioneered to break hateful barriers, imposed and perpetuated due to fear.

Good for them that people far better than Dungy were making these kind of decisions, and good for him, too. Were he in charge then, he wouldn’t be where he is now, making a fine living delivering his unsettling combinations of chalk-talks and sermonettes, selling a brand of selective piety that covers for deeply ironic intolerance and squishy cowardice.

Tony Dungy is trying to be too many people at the same time, and he has ended up exposed as something less than a person at all.

might have been the realest ish he ever spit IMO.

He has a column coming out elucidating his points
on ESPN tomorrow. It pretty much ends this whole
discussion brilliantly.
-->

He killed this one though.

-->

tony dungy is now the face of hate?

i'm tapping out.

Let's get Rick Santorum to clean this one up.

-->

and no one thinks he's the face of hate.

and that's just in this thread. deadspin said all kinds of wild shit and twitter was crazy.

it's like people lie in wait for someone to fuck up, so they can go nuts with their general angriness that they carry around all day.

shit like this leaves no real room to get angry about truly horrible people.

tony dungy can just be ignorant and not have the mental and emotional constitution to coach the first openly gay NFL player. why it CAN'T be that, i will never know.

the man said he believes sam should be given the chance to earn a spot and wished him the best. they asked him if HE would have taken him and the man said no and gave his reasons. how that earns "bigot" and detestable and jokes about his dead son is lost on me, personally.

you're not being an ally of gay people with this over-the-top lacking-in-compassion bullshit ass reaction to a human being as good as tony dungy. you're just being a hurt, angry ass person.

their reactions are out of line, but the general reactions of people disagreeing with tony dungy is not.

I'm all for gay allies calling it like they see it, but the son jabs are petty and extra mean.

we got literally hundreds of posts about it.

...

and you replied to me.

It's like me saying "I don't want fish tacos today."

And you saying "I disagree with you."

it's like you saying "hiring him is a mistake because of distractions"

and rob saying "i disagree you"

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

So your disagreeing about what Tony would do? Lol....wtf. We're at that point right now?

We're mad at Tonys draft philosophy.

cuz it's not.

Yes, that's what he'd do. AND ROB AND I ARE SAYING WHAT HE'D DO IS WRONG.

yes, dungy would not have drafted him. and rob and I think, because the reasons were either about his own homophobia or an unwillingness to face down other peoples' homophobia, it's a wrong opinion. it's cowardly or bigoted, like i said above.

think of it like this:
media guy: "hey tjt, if you were president, what would you do about the crisis in Israel/Palestine?"
me: "i'd do nothing. I'd be worried about the distractions "

now, let's say you believe that's a mistake and the US needs to intervene (in whichever direction). Would you say I was wrong or misguided? YES. But, was I saying what I'd do, and thus, apparently, you can't disagree with me? according to you, yes.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

have drafted him.

Its a simple as that.

for a hypothetical draft scenario is beyond me.
Me: Truth, will draft Danny Woodhead in the first round this year of your Fantasy Football Draft?
Truth: No.
Me: I disagree.

A: because he's not a good enough football player to be worth it.

NO PROBLEM.

or

A: because of the distractions because of his sexuality.

PROBLEM.

see how easy it is?

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

It's his reasoning.
That man thought about it, and that's the conclusion he's arrived at.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

I'm clicking for the comedy at this point


>and that's just in this thread. deadspin said all kinds of
>wild shit and twitter was crazy.
>
>it's like people lie in wait for someone to fuck up, so they
>can go nuts with their general angriness that they carry
>around all day.
>
>shit like this leaves no real room to get angry about truly
>horrible people.
>
>tony dungy can just be ignorant and not have the mental and
>emotional constitution to coach the first openly gay NFL
>player. why it CAN'T be that, i will never know.
>
>the man said he believes sam should be given the chance to
>earn a spot and wished him the best. they asked him if HE
>would have taken him and the man said no and gave his reasons.
>how that earns "bigot" and detestable and jokes about his dead
>son is lost on me, personally.
>
>you're not being an ally of gay people with this over-the-top
>lacking-in-compassion bullshit ass reaction to a human being
>as good as tony dungy. you're just being a hurt, angry ass
>person.

I am not fuckin pleased.

Which he won't be. I give this hype until maybe Week 2 of the regular season, more like week 2 of the preseason.

.

....

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nbc-yahoo-sports/jeff-fisher-says-michael-sam-hasn-t-been-a-distraction-133707245-nfl.html

Jeff Fisher says Michael Sam hasn’t been a distraction
By NBC Sports
2 hours ago
NBC on Yahoo Sports

With Tony Dungy explaining that he wouldn’t have drafted Michael Sam because of the distractions that go along with having him on the team, the coach who drafted Sam has addressed whether and to what extent Sam has been a distraction.

“Absolutely not,” Jeff Fisher told ESPN Radio’s Mike & Mike in the Morning on Wednesday. “Let’s define distraction. There were a couple of extra cameras during early OTAs. There may have been an extra camera yesterday as rookies reported and went on the field the first time. Mike’s a very passionate athlete. He’s very focused on trying to make this football team. . . . He worked really hard during the summer, and he’s doing a good job.”

Fisher, who said that there will be no limits placed on Sam’s media availability during training camp, nevertheless has no issue with Dungy’s view on the matter.

“I’m gonna assume some that maybe things were taken out of context,” Fisher said. “But everybody’s entitled to their own opinion. Coaches are going to have differences of opinion during the draft. . . . I’m not concerned. Tony’s entitled to his opinion as everybody is and so are and right now we think we have a pretty good thing going.”

The Rams may have such a good thing going that Sam won’t be good enough to make the roster. Fisher has said in the past that cutting Sam would be as normal a part of the broader process as drafting him. Fisher hinted during Wednesday’s interview that, even as Sam improves as a player, he ultimately may not be regarded as being good enough.

“Unfortunately, one part of this business is releasing players and upgrading the roster and so on and so forth,” Fisher said. “We let three players go yesterday who really have only been here for probably a month. They’re better football players than when we signed them, and that’s where Mike is right now. He’s a better football player because he’s committed himself to making this football team.”

Even with no distractions to date, scrutiny will arise if Fisher ultimately cuts Sam — especially with all those Rams jerseys bearing his name already being purchased. And that’s surely one of the distractions Dungy would have been concerned about, even if his initial comments on the matter were omitted from Ira Kaufman’s article in the Tampa Tribune or if Kaufman opted not to ask the follow-up questions that would have drawn a more complete explanation from Dungy.

Dungy will be able to give a more complete explanation soon. He’s scheduled to join The Dan Patrick Show in the 9:00 a.m. ET hour.

The real difference between the Vick and Sam distractions is that a player or coach could say just about anything about Vick and not really worry about repercussions. But a player or coach would have to watch every word they said about Sam at every turn for fear of being reprimanded or fired. That is an interesting take.

And I think Vick has paid his dues and people should leave him alone, but I get why they aren't. Sam plays football and happens to be gay, so the only controversy/debate/distraction is the way people talk about him. it literally has nothing to do with sam himself. anyone saying "what? i can't say anything about him w/o people criticizing me?!" is missing the point, which is that there's nothing to really say about him.

>And I think Vick has paid his dues and people should leave
>him alone, but I get why they aren't. Sam plays football and
>happens to be gay, so the only controversy/debate/distraction
>is the way people talk about him. it literally has nothing to
>do with sam himself. anyone saying "what? i can't say anything
>about him w/o people criticizing me?!" is missing the point,
>which is that there's nothing to really say about him.

Then people need not ask questions about Sam being gay to his teammates, right? Since there's nothing to really say about him. People being the media.

and the correct response is "what does that have to do with football? next question"

and life would be SO MUCH BETTER. but they will ask (because, dumb) and people will answer (because, DUMB) until it gets to the point where no one gives a fuck and they stop asking and that would be progress.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

>Then people need not ask questions about Sam being gay to his
>teammates, right? Since there's nothing to really say about
>him. People being the media.

I mean, it's obvious they're going to ask his teammates questions like "how have you adjusted? how has he fit in?" There's nothing inherently wrong with those questions, and those reporters are just doing their jobs, but anyone looking for controversy or debate will probably get a little bored by all the "There's nothing to adjust to, Michael is a good teammate" answers.

what I mean by "there's nothing to say" is there is no debate to be had, yet people insist on having it anyway. will there be teammates who don't approve? i'm sure there will, but really it comes down to the coach having things under control. every indication is that jeff fisher does not care what his sexuality is and will make sure everyone's treated the same (that includes cutting him if necessary). that's really all that matters.

who can't control a locker room they way Jeff Fisher (lol) can.

That, or Dungy is a bigot.

http://i.imgur.com/fFI7GJb.jpg

Can't believe Jeff Fisher can handle the media better than Champion Tony Dungy.

But here we are.

http://i.imgur.com/g6MCE.gif

One thing I found out from this...Dungy co-signed Vick's reality show...Kinda ethers his excuse that his quote was about Sam being a distraction because he wanted to document his first year for TV...Usually fat boy coons something awful. But he's dead on this time......Shocker....

------


Commentary
Dungy wrong about Michael Sam
Ex-NFL coach should support Sam as he once supported Vick
Originally Published: July 23, 2014
By Jason Whitlock | ESPN.com




This column isn't written to disparage or denigrate Tony Dungy, a leader and role model I respect and admire.

But Dungy's perspective on gay NFL player Michael Sam is unhealthy for African-Americans and logically inconsistent with principles at the foundation of American culture.

"I wouldn't want to deal with all of it," Dungy told Ira Kaufman of the Tampa Tribune, explaining why he would not have drafted Sam. "It's not going to be totally smooth ... things will happen."

America is not a totally smooth place, idea or experiment. We're a melting pot of races, ethnicities, cultures, religions and everything else. We rose to global power and maintained it because we chose to deal with all sorts of diversity challenges other countries have shied away from. Things have happened here -- things far more problematic than media "distractions" -- that we have overcome through leadership and a willingness to push beyond our comfort zone.

Great leaders and thinkers embrace a consistency in logic. Dungy's inconsistency in logic as it relates to Michael Sam and Michael Vick is baffling.

Dungy championed Vick's re-entry into the NFL from prison. According to published reports at the time, Dungy even supported Vick's decision to do a reality TV show on BET: "The Michael Vick Project."

Dungy took a public, courageous and important stand backing Vick, a convicted felon. It was a calculated decision.

"I've visited a lot of prisons," Dungy told "60 Minutes" correspondent James Brown in 2009 during a segment on Vick. "That's something I do. And I know there are a lot of young men, especially African-American young men, who need a chance, who made a mistake, who did something wrong, who had a problem, but are looking to bounce back. That's what I've always been concerned about, not just for Michael Vick, but for hundreds of guys that I've talked to."

What Dungy understands is that within American culture there is a deep-seated, opportunity-depriving hostility toward ex-cons. Our society deems them as unworthy of equality. Many people do not "want to deal with all" that goes into providing opportunities for men and women who have made mistakes because there is a pervasive fear that things won't go "totally smooth ... things will happen."

Dungy stepped up as a leader, mentored Vick and advocated for NFL franchises to deal with whatever media-driven distractions -- and there were many -- Vick's presence on the roster would present. By his own admission, Dungy did it because he recognized the larger societal impact Vick's return to the NFL could make. Dungy has been educated on the damage inflicted upon black and brown men by America's immoral and unevenly executed war on drugs and love affair with mass incarceration.

Tony Dungy and Michael Vick
AP Photo/Matt RourkePerhaps some day, Tony Dungy's need to support Michael Sam as he once supported Michael Vick will come into focus.

Criminality is a choice. Sexuality is not.

Do you understand my point?

Many religious and other socially conservative people believe homosexuality is a choice, no different from dealing drugs, cheating on your taxes or adopting a pet. And more troubling, they believe gays are unworthy of equality based on their choice. Tony Dungy promotes his Christian faith and values. He has stated repeatedly that Michael Sam deserves the opportunity to play in the NFL. But Dungy has made it equally clear he would not have the resolve to be the head coach to give Sam that opportunity.

Some part of Dungy's reluctance to fully support Sam, I believe, is based on Dungy's religious intolerance of homosexuality. It's fruit of the same poisonous, superiority tree that justifies intolerance and degradation of ex-cons. Dungy's courage to lead, do the right thing and combat "controversies" ends at homosexuality. Is he OK if yours ends at dogfighting or marijuana possession?

Ex-cons are relegated to second- and third-class citizenry here in America. In some cases, they're denied jobs, credit, voting privileges, housing, association with lifelong friends and family members and anything else our politicians can think of to win voter approval. We treat ex-cons like we want them to go away (permanently).

Many Americans do the same thing to gays. They want them to go away. The suicide-attempt rate of gay teens suggests they hear them loud and clear.

I'm disappointed Tony Dungy can't tap into the same courage, logic and big-picture perspective that caused him to support Michael Vick and use them to fully support Michael Sam. Dungy does not have to disavow his religious beliefs to back Sam. The NFL, like the rest of the world, is filled with unrepentant sinners, men Dungy coached and mentored for years seemingly without regret.

Michael Sam, like Dungy, me, you and Peyton Manning, is just another sinner.

Is Sam, a marginal NFL talent, worth the trouble, the distractions? When you consider his NFL career might stop one child from contemplating suicide because his/her sexuality is outside the norm, then, hell yes, Sam is worth it. No different from Vick's successful re-entry into the NFL might have opened one close-minded person to the possibility that ex-cons have value.

Dungy has always tried to be bigger than football. That's why I respect and admire him. It's disappointing to see him wallow in smallness on a topic this important.

I think the most disappointing thing about this is that Dungy didn't really specify what the "distractions" were, if I'm not mistaken.

we all assume that he meant people being mad about dude behind closed doors (and not so closed doors) because dude is openly gay.

the lack of specificity bothers me, because you KNOW that's where people are gonna go if you don't.

I don't really think differently of Dungy because of this, but I would live with what he believed if he just came out and said it.

I do believe that if assumptions are correct, that assumed viewpoint to be some bullshit.

considering there's probably been a bunch of publicly undisclosed queer* men in the NFL up until this point w/no incident backstage (where team members would know), but all kinds of distractions otherwise. Sam only becomes a "distraction" because the antagonists of dude make it such


* - not intended to be derogatory; I mean all who don't identify as heterosexual

This is where I'm at^^^^


I don't "hate" Dungy. I find his story and come-up to be very inspiring. All those years as a black man being passed up for head coaching positions just because of the color of his skin. When he finally got that gig at Tampa Bay, even as a Bears fan, I openly cheered for Dungy...

I just find the whole thing hypocritical. But just because I call bullshit on Dungy saying Sam would be a distraction because of a reality show when dude had no problem co-signing Vick's reality show with BET does not mean I think Dungy is some despicable character...

I think that's going too far...However, I do think Dungy is full of shit. I would have rather just Dungy come out and say, "I wouldn't be able to deal with an openly gay player because that goes against my Christian beliefs" than for dude to hide behind an all-too general comment that turned into some silliness about reality TV...

But he's not the devil or anything...Just a dude with some antiquated beliefs...

link: http://deadspin.com/herm-edwards-suggests-mike-sam-is-bringing-baggage-in-1519691334

lol @ "baggage"

cmon dogg, CMON

about Sam, and chase them all around with your pitchfork at the same time. Might save you more time.

there is no controversy. there is no debate. there's just a football player who happens to be gay and a team that i'm sure will handle it just fine.

god, manly men are so sensitive sometimes.

heads on tv were saying similar things

http://i.imgur.com/W2liP2n.gif

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2740075/Michael-Sam-dropped-NFL-no-one-wants-distraction-claims-Buffalo-Bills-star-gay-football-player-tweets-upbeat-message.html

Everybody has distractions, some major, some minor... professionals learn to tune them out as much as possible and focus on the their jobs when they're on company time.

If players can perform facing criminal charges or with births and deaths in their family, others can certainly weather the "storm" of questions about another dude's sexuality in his personal life.

media.

Sam wasn't a distraction in the locker room or on the field where its all about football.

The problems come off the field with 24 hour twitter based news cycle you got reporters fishing for stories so your whole organization has to walk on eggshells just in case a reporter throws a loaded question at them just get a scoop. Fair or not a lot of teams aren't going to deal with that for a marginal player.

You can blame the media but at the same time Michael Sam and his handlers have courted the media attention. There are 2 ways he could've approached it. He could've came in as football player that happens to be gay or came in as "The First Openly Gay NFL Player". From the carefully orchestrated draft day scene to reality tv deals with Oprah it was obvious what they were going for.

They did the TD celebration before crossing the goal line then got tackled at the 1 and time ran out.

Nah.....

Sam got caught up in a numbers game...The squad that he got drafted ended up becoming heavy in his position...And the one kid he was fighting it out with to make that final spot just proved to be better...What the media does or doesn't do is moot for a league who is in the news everyday for drug stops, domestic violence, ect....I think ALL distraction memes needs to be deaded...The shit is kinda insulting when u think about the criminals that are allowed to stay in the league...

But back to your point, homie...

If u listen to analysts beyond the ESPN contingent they are saying the Sam kid showed he can more than play in the NFL...He will get picked up by another team...

>If u listen to analysts beyond the ESPN contingent they are
>saying the Sam kid showed he can more than play in the
>NFL...He will get picked up by another team...

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/pete-prisco/24688426/nfl-cuts-musings-tape-shows-michael-sam-wasnt-good-enough

this morning, the work he put on tape showed he is more than worthy to be on, at the very least, a practice squad. He says he's surprised he isn't now...and will be shocked if he isn't sometime this season.

> the work he put on tape showed he is more than
>worthy to be on, at the very least, a practice squad.

HACK. and, if you had read his shitty hit piece (omg! rookie had 2 bad plays!), he said Sam should be on the practice squad...so...?

anyway, i suspect a smart team that doesn't want the ESPN bullshit will pick him up after the first week. Once there's actual GAMES to talk about, Sam won't get nearly as much coverage from a practice squad. Distraction bullshit solved. and proof it's espn being espn bullshit that was behind him not being picked up immediately.


-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

I don't think he's personally a distraction. ESPN needs to let the dude play w/o all the fanfare. I'm thinking he'll get a call in the next few days..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

Ditch the paper, save the trees, and go mobile! Text bizcard to 32462!

he got beat out by a nigga who was....undrafted
people are just spitting out this number game shit like he lost out to jj watt, demarcus ware, and mike bennett
d line is a position of strength for them but it's a numbers game for EVERYONE that gets cut
he was basically a reach pick and he got beat out by a dude who walked in off the street
hopefully he gets a gig somewhere cause of the hype but no need to make it more complicated than it is imo

not on some smartest guy in the room shit...but that's just what I felt it was. I stand by it, too. Rams kept 9 D-linemen. It came down to spot 9 and Westbrooks had done too much to justify them not keeping him. It's not complicated, for real. I said in that post about Sam doing the Manziel money sack dance that Westbrooks was a MUCH better all-around player and Sam was a specialist. Where I took my L is the fact that I thought the Rams would keep 10 and Sam AND Westbrooks would make the cut. William Hayes has not played a snap in pre-season and Brockers is banged up, so I felt they'd go a little deeper on the D-line, but I was wrong.

Michael Sam

a dude that has been in your system, knows terminology, etc...can't be on your practice squad?

especially where they've sold the jerseys, handled the brunt of the PR and all that. you have an injury and plug him in and all that wasn't for nothing.

this was the Rams draft class...

2014 1 2 Greg Robinson OL Auburn
2014 1 13 Aaron Donald DT Pittsburgh
2014 2 41 Lamarcus Joyner CB Florida State
2014 3 75 Tre Mason RB Auburn
2014 4 110 Maurice Alexander SS Utah St.
2014 6 188 E.J. Gaines CB Missouri
2014 6 214 Garrett Gilbert QB SMU - CUT
2014 7 226 Mitchell Van Dyk OL Portland St. - CUT
2014 7 241 C.B. Bryant FS Ohio St. - CUT(practice squad)
2014 7 249 Michael Sam DE Missouri - CUT
2014 7 250 Demetrius Rhaney OL Tennessee St. - IR

The 3 guys they drafted BEFORE Sam got cut. Only one of them was signed to the practice squad.

>2014 6 214 Garrett Gilbert QB SMU - CUT
>2014 7 226 Mitchell Van Dyk OL Portland St. - CUT
>2014 7 241 C.B. Bryant FS Ohio St. - CUT(practice

http://www.stlouisrams.com/news-and-events/article-1/Rams-Announce-Practice-Squad/26a2c04d-3c76-4711-878a-9663c23808ea

the one who didn't was a tackle, and they already have a guy at his position there. there is no DE on the practice squad. not that they HAVE to keep one, but with how well he played and how good he is at pass rushing you'd think they might want to keep him around in case of an injury. plus all the other stuff i mentioned.

look at those guys, Bryant was coming off of a major injury so he wasn't 100%.

It's not rocket science.

I agree with your overall point about ESPN and such. there was NO reason to run the shower story. I still believe that after Week 1 the questions would/will die down considerably though because football would be happening, but that's another discussion.

Outside of the TV deal (which was nixed before camp even started, yet dudes still bring up as a "distraction") Sam hasn't done anything but kept his head down, played as hard as he could, and been respectful of everyone. Sure, he'll answer the media's questions, but he made it clear that his goal was just to make the team. He never treated it like a circus, and he thanked the Rams after getting cut. He's been completely professional from day 1.

and despite the fallout ESPN got from running that story that doesn't mean the all reporters are going stop asking those kinds of questions.

So if you bring in Michael Sam your entire organization from coaches to players and everybody else is probably going to have to be coached by the PR folks on what to say and what not to say regarding Sam. All it takes one reporter throwing out a loaded question and somebody making an off-hand comment or joke then the media will take that and run with it and that player or coach would be labeled as a bigot and there would be calls for them to be fined/cut/fired. A lot of teams are not going to want to deal with all that for a guy that's a 2nd or 3rd stringer at best.

that was probably just being hopeful. fisher made himself pretty clear on that one.

>and despite the fallout ESPN got from running that story that
>doesn't mean the all reporters are going stop asking those
>kinds of questions.

as i've said, there will be nothing to even ask pretty soon. te'o was supposed to a big distraction. then football happened. and the chargers weren't even that good.

>
>So if you bring in Michael Sam your entire organization from
>coaches to players and everybody else is probably going to
>have to be coached by the PR folks on what to say and what not
>to say regarding Sam.

uhhhh, the rams probably did NONE of that. i'm willing to bet fisher said something to the effect of "he's one of us, don't be a dummy" and that was the end of it. coaches can handle stuff like this easily.

"respecting their space" or there would have been some major follow up on that.

They feel the brunt of all the media attention, not the players and coaches... their media access is closely regulated and monitored.

But I can definitely see some front offices being genuinely concerned about what their people might say... but think about what they're worried about. It's not that players will be like "Shit, I don't really care"... or "Hey, he's been a great teammate".

They're worried about the player that's going to say something controverisal, like some players have done in previous seasons.

Some orgs know how to handle the media... many dont, so I can see why that would be a concern for many front offices, though not for the players and coaches themselves.

>You can blame the media but at the same time Michael Sam and
>his handlers have courted the media attention. There are 2
>ways he could've approached it. He could've came in as
>football player that happens to be gay or came in as "The
>First Openly Gay NFL Player". From the carefully orchestrated
>draft day scene to reality tv deals with Oprah it was obvious
>what they were going for.

You forgot the third and most common option for probably most gay players that face this dilemma... stay closeted and hope they're never discovered or they never run into a particularly bigoted group of players or coaches that could quietly and surreptitiously derial their career.

Going public was the right thing to do though.... both for him AND the NFL because it assured a fair and public appraisal of his ability. He can be secure that his abilities were fairly graded and the NFL can say "See, we're only concerned with results".

im tired of talkin bout his ass
tired of seeing his name
jesus fucking christ already
let us go back to talkin about
cheese eyes
socks
bag of dildos
Mr. T.G.I.F.

you clearly care a lot. i'm gonna keep this on page 1 just for you man.

doing business like this and telling teams who to draft...

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl-news/4699531-la-rams-hard-knocks-michael-sam-draft-arrangement-hbo-reality-series

Sam posts getting upped are by other posters.

lol

especially if i hated the gays.

"gay" posts is more fiction than fact. I've had a lot to say about the same shit because he played for the Rams AND Mizzou. I'm more honest than most about my opinions so my comments in posts started by others can lead some people to think I'm making the posts.

>I'm more honest than most about my opinions so my comments in
>posts started by others can lead some people to think I'm
>making the posts.

lol, it is fact that you have to weigh in on every post about someone gay. and you start A LOT of them. you're obsessed with gay athlete stories, just admit it. it's okay to admit you're weird, we all are.

edit: so he played for mizzou and the rams... okay. so why did you post the gay ncaa player story?