...at what point is it okay to admit this and stop hoping he rebounds back to his roots. His last 3 or 4 albums have been forgettable at best. His last album was straight garbage. He got a pass for turning to acting because everyone is doing it. But this Gatorade commercial just pushed me over the edge, the one with Ussain Bolt drinking a juice box. Isn't Gatorade a Coke product? He almost made the Gap cool, but that was when his music was still aiight. Leave that shit to Will.I.Am, I just think the brother has lost touch...

wtf is a sellout...

a man paying his bills? the love for hip-hop never fed any mc. go ask some of the legends from the 80's. u get nothing but tall props n short changed.

his last album was corny as fuck but besides that he hasn't strayed far. Kanye was a good spark of energy for his career.

>wtf is a sellout...
>
>a man paying his bills? the love for hip-hop never fed any
>mc. go ask some of the legends from the 80's. u get nothing
>but tall props n short changed.
>
>his last album was corny as fuck but besides that he hasn't
>strayed far. Kanye was a good spark of energy for his
>career.

yeah i agree about how you define a sellout. i hate it when people call will.i.am a sellout, and claim he used to make good music.

im always like, "oh yeah? to what albums are you referring? can't recall? was it bridging the gap and behind the front? it was? i wonder why you couldn't remember the names, or maybe it's because you didnt buy those fucking albums, and maybe if you had, will could have gotten paid and not gone a more pop route. and have you eheard the sergio mendes albums or songs about girls or the must b 21 soundtrack, or the actual bep albums? no, you haven't bothered to listen? cuz he drops some heat on those albums, regardless if you love underground or commercial shit."

ionno about this "paying his bills" comment though. im sure his acting/music career is keeping the lights on, i have no assumption that he needs to make commercails to live, but if the good people of coke offered you $1M to chug a can and smile while being taped, i would sure as fuck do that shit, then i would snort lines of actual coke off some big tittied girls left buttchoke, laughing maniacally down venice boulevard.

...at least that's what he claims in his rhymes, so how could money even be a motivator. He should still be getting residule checks from Smokin Aces and American Gangster.

The point of the post is when is it okay to label him a sell-out, which I guess I would define as having money as your only motivator. That commercial touched a nerve with me as Common was one of a few artists I checked for on the regular, but I don't have the same feeling for any project he's associated with anymore.

As for defending Will.I.Am, GTFOOHWTBS. I bought Bridging The Gap, only because Primo did some production and De La, and Mos were on the album, other than that, the BEPs are garbage and I never bought another album, they had no choice but to go pop or have no career. Adding to the definition of sell-out, compromising your art for financial success. The Sergio joints were dope though, but that's because those albums have all-star casts, don't give Will the credit on those, he's on like 3 or 4 songs.

>...at least that's what he claims in his rhymes, so how could
>money even be a motivator. He should still be getting residule
>checks from Smokin Aces and American Gangster.

this is true, though i dont think those residuals are going to be paying his mortgage. for b-list actors, i bet most of the money he made from those movies were the lump sum payment.

>The point of the post is when is it okay to label him a
>sell-out, which I guess I would define as having money as your
>only motivator. That commercial touched a nerve with me as
>Common was one of a few artists I checked for on the regular,
>but I don't have the same feeling for any project he's
>associated with anymore.

common was and still is an artist i check for. I agree that his last album was a hot mess. i just think it's bullshit to call someone a sellout for making a coke ad. honestly, im happy coke is diverting some of their marketing budget to an artist i like.

also, don't forget that the roots remade one of their songs into a sprite (which is a coke product) commercial? or are currently the house abnd on a major network owned by ge, one of the biggest and most eggregious corporate polluters in the world? i dont see the difference.

>As for defending Will.I.Am, GTFOOHWTBS. I bought Bridging The
>Gap, only because Primo did some production and De La, and Mos
>were on the album, other than that, the BEPs are garbage and I
>never bought another album, they had no choice but to go pop
>or have no career. Adding to the definition of sell-out,
>compromising your art for financial success. The Sergio joints
>were dope though, but that's because those albums have
>all-star casts, don't give Will the credit on those, he's on
>like 3 or 4 songs.

i dont think either of those albums are classics, but i love them both. and i dont think they were doing that much worse than de la, the roots, etc. financially.

and didnt will do most of the production on the sergio joints? how can you enjoy them and discount him? even if he didn't handle production on every track (and i assumed he did, but havent checked), those albums exist because of him. thats like loving chicken and hating eggs, or loving big but hating puff.

I don't believe you're raggin' on the nigga for making a commercial. One in which he's not cooning and dancing around making himself look silly btw.

Who is he Morgan Freeman now. The commercial was the tipping point, i've been progressively disappointed in his music following the electric circus album with UMC leaving me disgusted, but since this post was started, i've begun to notice other hip-hop artists and how they are used in commercials...

B.O.B., in an adidas commercial, which is hip-hop as they sponsored run dmc, had a run dmc shoe, and his music is in the commercial

Dre, in an ad for a laptop designed for making music, also hip-hop related

RZA, i can't recall what the ad was for, playstation or some other game system, but he's in the studio and its relevant to his music

Now this stupid ass Gatorade commercial has been used for football with peyton manning and basketball with dewight howard. I see it all day long as i watch alot of sports. It has nothing to do with hip-hop or music. I have a friend who does some acting and the way you get paid off of commercials should have him set for a long time to come. so we'll see what his next career move will be...

>Now this stupid ass Gatorade commercial has been used for
>football with peyton manning and basketball with dewight
>howard. I see it all day long as i watch alot of sports. It
>has nothing to do with hip-hop or music. I have a friend who
>does some acting and the way you get paid off of commercials
>should have him set for a long time to come. so we'll see what
>his next career move will be...

So you want him to stay one dimensional and only do things that are related to hiphop?

More than once in this thread you've mentioned that he's getting money from some endeavor so that should be enough and it should allow him to do the type of you music you believe he should be doing.

He's not being used or pimped out. He's making these decisions to act and put out the music as he sees fit.

...like getting some pussy.

very insightful, thanks for the enlightenment

...how much money is enough. He's about 10 albums deep, done endorsements and movies. How much money do need before you start to put the art first again?

>...how much money is enough. He's about 10 albums deep, done
>endorsements and movies. How much money do need before you
>start to put the art first again?


this shit is ridiculous. it's difficult to make money in the music industry-especially in this day and age. if com gets some mafucking endorsement deals, i say jump on that shit. make your money homie. and to say the cat hasn't been putting out quality albums is stupid as shit. what the hell do people want? 20 years of ressurection albums? ALL of coms albums are quality. that's right...ALL. including electric circus and universal mind control.

it's easy to sit the side line and critisize folks and ask silly ass questions like, "how much money is enough?" how the fuck you gonna chime in on somebody else's financial situation? shit, if you don't dig his music because you feel he's too obsessed with money to the point where he puts out shit music, then keep it moving and play the sage francis discography on repeat.

and not to knit-pick, but he's only 8 albums deep. just my $.02.

anyways, let me take this oppertunity to plug some shit i did over common's "universal mind control" beat the other night. peace.

spearman vs. common
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnVrziakLLs

I bet if Com had dropped that album now (in 2010 the era of Drake, B.o.B., Wackas and Juicemans) niggas would prolly flip. no doubt. It's like cats heard that album once, didn't feel it and never gave it another chance.

Why are YOU putting a cap on how much money Common makes? GTFOH

From your id i'm assuming you're a female. So what's stopping you from becoming a prostitute. No cap on how much money you can get on your back...

His art is in decline with his recent album being terrible and movie roles in slapstick comedies with Latifah. Really??? I've put it to previous posters like this. It would be different if you could defend UMC as quality or if his role in American Gangster touched you personally, otherwise, how is it different from being pimped for his art???

...you'll see a link for the trailer for his new movie with Latifah. So how could he be doing anything for money? What's the point of doing a Gatroade commercial, voice-over at that

> Isn't Gatorade a Coke product?

Nope, but Coke's a Coke product.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9Adpt2NZy0

Sprite too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a9BX8YFv2Q

Actually, it was more of a shock that Com covered an anti-war song for Coke, stripping it of its meaning and using it to sell soda pop at a time when "conscious" Com was silent on the war.

Three hundred fifteen dollars ain't worth your soul, but Com got way more paid than that.....peace, love, The Gap!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD2VX2foCVo
i thought that made him a sell out
n/m

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD2VX2foCVo
>i thought that made him a sell out
lol....i think he's just doing some wack shit of late

or maybe he's just grown in a direction some just don't want him to go in

thats fine but i don't have to follow him over the cliff......

haha, ouch

says fuck hip-hop, im never doing that shit again...i'm acting exclusively now......

or disparages what hip-hop has done for him

or something like that, you arent a sell-out for being successful, or making product that isn't "up to snuff".

his last album was effective, it was short and fun, light summer fare. i dug it for what it was.

newsflash....nesflash..SPOILER ALERT

HE WILL NEVER MAKE RESSURECTION AGAIN. he isn't that dude anymore, he is a father, actor and grown-up. he isn't that guy. so stop looking for it.

enjoy what you can and if you don't like it, don't by it...

isn't what he's doing worse, putting out sub-par material, and people like myself who grew up as his career progressed keep supporting his projects because of the strength of earlier work.

Look at the progress of his music

can i borrow a dollar: a couple of strong songs, foot in the door, career took off after the soul by the pound remix

resurrection: classic

one day it'll all make sense: classic

like water for chocolate: classic, and i contend the greatest production ever (soulquarians)

electric circus: appreciate the artistic integrity, but the skills could have been sharper, and we have pharell entering the picture

be: stronger mc skills, okay album, kanye enters the picture, simplified lyrics, formula type album, radio friendly

finding forever: okay album, mostly kanye, be part 2, its the same album

UMC: garbage: all pharell, no skills

The downward trend is obvious, what happened

proves that you got not a clue what you're talking about...

>electric circus: appreciate the artistic integrity, but the
>skills could have been sharper, and we have pharell entering
>the picture
>
>be: stronger mc skills, okay album, kanye enters the picture,
>simplified lyrics, formula type album, radio friendly

Be was stronger lyrically than Electric Circus? Please. I like Be better as an album, but lyrically Common has never come harder than he did on EC (though I still contend that his lyrical peak was One Day It'll All Make Sense).

Be was a really solid contemporary hip hop album, and Common was good to great on the mic, but it ain't TOUCHING the hunger and lyrical prowess he displayed on EC, whether you like the album as a whole or not. Common ain't been the same lyrically SINCE Electric Circus, tho he's had his moments.


In related news, "sell-out" lost meaning sometime around 2002. Common is makin money to feed his family and take care of business. I agree that UMC was an awful album, Finding Forever was also subpar. But leave the man alone. He's doin what he's gotta do, and considering his run from Can I Borrow A Dollar through Be, I'm willing to forgive him for putting out a couple subpar albums since, considering the amount of amazing material he put out during that time period.

its more of an example of Common working with producers that aren't on his page artistically, pharell and kanye, after you put out an album entirely produced by Dilla and Questlove. I never understood that. He wasn't working with Kanye before he was on Roc-a-fella, so what's the motivation for it other than money

but I just think you're taking this shit way too personally. I assume that based on how intelligent he is and how complicated a mind he seems to have, that he makes his career decisions based on a NUMBER of factors, not just "oh this'll make me mad more money". I'm sure a lot of thoughts and concerns come into play before he makes a decision to do a commercial, a movie, work with another hip hop name, whatever.

I don't get how working with Pharell or Kanye makes him a sellout anyway. They are both highly respected hip hop producers, both in the streets and in the mainstream. He and Kanye have made some great music together, he and Pharell have certainly fallen short but that doesn't mean he "sold out" (again I hate that fucking old ass term) by working with them. It was a career decision that was probly based on a number of factors. If dood was selling out by working with Pharell, why was he selling UMC for $1 when he first released it? He thought it was good music, and he wanted to give the fans something new. It wasn't good music, now we gotta move forward. Hopefully his next album will be better.

Am I disappointed in the direction his hip hop career has taken? Definitely. The man was near flawless through 2006 musically, his last 2 albums didn't live up to his skill as an artist. He was my favorite MC and artist through 2006. Now, I ain't really interested in his movies, and am not bothered by his commercials. But his first 14 years in the game is enough for me to say "fuck it, make your money son" and keep it moving. You need to relax about it is all.

you might be right, i have no idea why that commercial bothered me so much. maybe because i bought UMC, or because i was holding on to the possibility of Common re-activating beast mode. he was such a talent and force on the mic i never second guessed the Gap endorsement or the acting. but after re-analyzing his last 3 albums and considering his turn to acting, it kind of pisses me off that he puts out weak ass music when he has an opportunity to work with whoever he wants. why go to pharell, when you have a history with Quest and Primo, I know Dilla passed, give MadLib a shout. shit, NO ID is doing tracks for Jay, WTF

For a record sale a nigga'll sell his soul to go gold
and reach a large scale, sellin for the pale male
and I can't tell, why for a hoe you grow a tail
and stop drinkin ale, the booty probably smell
Ain't no pussy worth a sale at least not for the kid to do a bid
Shit you musta flipped you lid, you was wit you slipped you slid
Got doodoo skids on my paper cause I got rhymes up the ass
If I pass gas, ducks fast or gets trimmed like a mustache
I must ask what's goin on with rap, white kids actin black
It's like McDonald's sellin fatback
Get back to your Mac, that stuff is wack with all these dancetracks
I'm hearin rap from Antrhax, my time the Caravan cracks
You're wack, that's the only thing that's black Scooter
When we was on the streets, you was at home on your computer
I'ma shoot a diss well like a fist to all these wack groups
Rhymes are wack as hell! And they sample wack loops
I'm wonderin how the hell they get a deal I still can't see that far
I feel like Cypress Hill, I could just kill an A&R
or whoever's in Charge, it surely ain't Charles
but you ain't G-in hip-hop, cause it's ours

i wish him all the sucess he wants , but the jonas bro thing really did it for me

what common does in HIS FUCKING LIFE does not affect YOUR FUCKING LIFE. get off his dick and go get a life of your own. anyone who makes a post like this is a fucking pathetic bitch. yes, i said it. and i don't care if you get mad. "oh, common's making money to support himself, his daughter, and help his dad. he's a sell out." fine. pay his fucking bills then.


fucking fair weather fans make me sick. i didn't like his last album either. so what. as long as common is happy i'm happy for him. and he's doing fairly well right now whether you like it or not. people hope for these artists to see some success, and when they do, people hate. "oh, it's not the way I wanted him to get success." fuck that. get paid common.

hip-hop is my life and when someone disrespects it i feel obligated to call bullshit. like i said, he's getting money through various avenues. how much is enough. at what point do you start to compromise your integrity and art for financial success. is that not a sell-out

who are more deserving of your ire.

I'm a fan of the artists associated with this site. Of course there are worse examples, but I'm a fan of OK artists...

probably a good few years before you realized who he was.

who cares if he sold out and got paid.

if he didnt you would be on here asking "how come common doesnt get more love?"

I have Can I Borrow A Dollar so you gotta take it easy

Only bad album he's done is Universal Mind Control. And even that isn't as bad as most people make it out to be. I can't call him a sellout though. As long as he's paying his bills and still doing music, how is he selling out? He's making music for his fans and that's really all that should matter at the end of the day.

>Only bad album he's done is Universal Mind Control. And even
>that isn't as bad as most people make it out to be.

It's awful.


>I can't
>call him a sellout though. As long as he's paying his bills
>and still doing music, how is he selling out?

I agree. Can't hate the man. Just can't listen to the last album.

>He's making
>music for his fans and that's really all that should matter at
>the end of the day.

That's arguable. His fans hate that album.

to quoute charles barkley, that album is "turrrabull". thank you for at least agreeing with me on that.

How was it terrible though? I mean, I think it was more experimental than terrible. People obviously aren't used to hearing him over Neptunes production. The feedback would probably be the same if people heard Mos Def over Nottz production. I mean, at least Changes was decent. Lol.

and it was literally a scrapped together mixtape. Common's way too talented to just throw together albums in between movies. It's a throwaway.

That's not to say there isn't a couple good jams on there, but mostly it's a throwaway.

do black people even use that term anymore?

its funny how since hip-hop has become the popular culture, white people seem a lot cooler to me

get out more.

really.

try it sometime.

so you just confirmed your an idiot...

carry on.

great filtering system

and damn i thought you were gonna break it down and school this young fellow...lol

d

"True genius is the person who is most like himself" - Thelonius Monk

>do black people even use that term anymore?

only in GD
lol

Ever since white folks called Matallica sell outs for Enter Sandman, black folks stopped using the term. Like when white middle age entertainment reporters started calling Curtis Jones "Fiddy", we stopped calling him "Fiddy".

but if you haven't noticed only making music doesn't pay bills. and i don't think it'd really be selling out unless you.. and you can quote me "accept a gain knowing it comes at the price of another's misfortune" or "make your people look stupid for money" in simpler terms.

and the gatorade commercials give the common positivity thing far more exposure than the crap you'd probably sign up for.

kind of funny how most the statements defending Common's recent projects start off something like..."well he's got to pay his bills". GTFOOH. i would reconsider my opinion if this post was filled with reactions like..."no way, UMC is dope", or "what, his role in smokin aces touched me", or "gatorade is paying Common, i'm going to Wawa right now for some". but all i hear is money, money, money...sounds like a sell-out to me

most of your responses to people's posts in here haven't even made sense, i.e. you literally have completely dodged what the other person said and just said something entirely random.

Great example was ?uest's post about how black people don't even use the term "sell-out" anymore...your response was something ridiculous like

"it's funny, since hip hop culture became popular, white people seem much cooler to me"...

Like, what the fuck???? What does that even mean? And even if it means something, how in the hell does it relate to what ?uest said?

Bottom line is you're taking this shit too seriously. Sell outs don't exist anymore. He just ain't making good music the last 2 albums. Hopefully his next album will be better. That's it. That's all. You don't like his shit, move on to the next MC. That's what I did. And I'm much happier because of it.

Now please, sign off and go do something productive. Or stay signed in if you want, but at least make sense if you do.

But I see where the original poster is coming from (a little). I just wouldn’t use the term “sell out”. Com has been my favorite MC …ok well used to be my favorite MC ever since his Can I Borrow A Dollar days and for that reason I LOVE seeing Com in movies, commercials etc. I never thought dude would blow up the way he has and I’m happy for him.

I’m not hating on Com looking out for his bank account. By all means make your $ but give your diehard fans some quality music at the same time. That's all I'm saying.


_____________________________________

<--------------my bday cake (dopest cake ever)!!!

www.ihearthiphop.com
http://twitter.com/ihearthiphop

>By all means make your $ but give your diehard fans some quality music at the same time. That's all I'm saying.

>I’m not hating on Com looking out for his bank account. By all
>means make your $ but give your diehard fans some quality
>music at the same time. That's all I'm saying.

Common himself might think that his music is and has always been quality. So might some of his other fans (like me). So who's definition is the most important here?

d


<------- TheLoneliest Monk

I don’t disagree with you there. How one defines quality is subjective as is any other term I could have used instead “good” "dope” “classic” etc.

If you’re one of those who would argue that UMC was actually a “good” or “quality” album...I’ll pass. lol


_____________________________________

<--------------my bday cake (dopest cake ever)!!!

www.ihearthiphop.com
http://twitter.com/ihearthiphop

...that comment was in response to "do black people even use the term sell-out anymore". what i was trying to express was the culture of "black people" isn't even cool anymore, it's pop. where's the orginality. maybe Common's next album he can sing with autotune, get T-Pain on the hook, and Lil' Wayne on the remix. "white people", or white culutre is now being copied by hip-hop, with the skinny jeans and hipster look, which is why i said they are cooler to me, at least there's some originality. so i'm not really concerned with what term is okay to use...if it looks like a sell-out, i'm going to call it a sell-out, you can call it whatever you like

...so I guess black people still do use that term

I heard an interview excerpt from her this morning, and she was talking about how her second album sold over 2 million units but was viewed as a failure by the industry so she started listening to what other people thought she should do/direction her art should take, etc...

Common dropped one subpar album "UMC"! "Finding Forever and "Be" are great albums!!!! I can't be mad for Common gettin his money!!!! Common gotta eat just like eveyone else ..... damn! Common dropped so many dope albums like "Can I borrow a dollor", "Like water for Chocolate" 2 name a few!!! I can't be mad at Common!!!!

Damn, some folx ain't got shit to do huh?

Com's last 3 albums have been dope.

Dude is just stating they were wack, like it's common knowledge.

GTFOH. His shit has been dope. for real. Com is really being a grown ass man artist. The acting move is cool as hell. As I was watching Just Wright, it was so good to see Com and Latifah just doing the damn thing in carrying a good movie. Hip Hop was on screen in a great way.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2410138&mesg_id=2410138&page=

No one's disagreeing with you that Common's latest output has been awful, or at least most people are not disagreeing.

Everyone just thinks you're an idiot because you're still using the term "sellout" in 2010. You've missed the point.

Now can we let this thread die a quick death?

...when Coke waves some Gz in your face. And if you DON't jump, then you, sir, are a grade 1 idiot. Definition of idiot. Com didn't kill children to get paid. He did a commercial. Unless you don't drive, travel by bus or wear clothes, your money contributes to big business oil companies and child labor. Am I going to call you a sellout? Are you?

compromising your integrity for some Gz as the primary motivation is how i would define a sell-out, but i think i already said that...
so UMC and Terminator Salvation changed your life?...
do i drink soda, no. do i drive and own clothes, yes. i also own a bicycle which i use in the city, and i bought cloth to make my own curtains, so i'm trying. am i, or would i do advertisements for big oil, no. that wasn't the issue. you're going too far. the issue was with common taking money for sub-par artistic endeavors. his music, remember when com was on kweli's and black thought's level lyrically. that's the issue. shit, he could do a commercial for electric cars, and i would still think his last 3 albums were sub-par and UMC sucked, and that his movie career to date is forgettable at best, that's the issue!!!

are you SERIOUS?????? terminator change my life what? huh? who said it did? did i ever mention terminator or anything changing my life? So you dont work for a living and ride a bycicle. Good for you. You dont want Gz? you are an idiot. nothing else to say really. I wonder how you afford this computer you typing on and the internet. Unless you figured how to build it out of some floss and toothpicks. Wonder where you purchased the music you talking about or watched Terminator at. You don't contribute to our social finances? are you really a troll living in a cave? because I would love to find you and film a Discovery Channel special. OR if you do contribute, you are as much a sellout as Common, myself or any other sensible human being making a living in a capitalist world. So please stop crying about Common doing a commercial, because you would be all over that shit, dont bullshit us ok?

>are you SERIOUS?????? terminator change my life what? huh?
>who said it did? did i ever mention terminator or anything
>changing my life? So you dont work for a living and ride a
>bycicle. Good for you. You dont want Gz? you are an idiot.
>nothing else to say really. I wonder how you afford this
>computer you typing on and the internet. Unless you figured
>how to build it out of some floss and toothpicks. Wonder
>where you purchased the music you talking about or watched
>Terminator at. You don't contribute to our social finances?
>are you really a troll living in a cave? because I would love
>to find you and film a Discovery Channel special. OR if you do
>contribute, you are as much a sellout as Common, myself or any
>other sensible human being making a living in a capitalist
>world. So please stop crying about Common doing a commercial,
>because you would be all over that shit, dont bullshit us ok?

Honestly. This dood is acting all holier than thou for riding a bike in the city. Here's your trophy homeboy. Similar to what you said, unless this guy is doing straight grass roots organization work for a living, doesn't pay taxes, and doesn't own anything that was sold in an American store, then he is contributing to the same shit we all are, INCLUDING Common. So this dood's a sellout, too.

I own a car and wear clothes, got it, thanks for playing.

I have a question for you 2 knuckleheads (Lexx and Brew). What would you call art? What would you call good art?

there was nothing to counter. You made not one reasonable point to be "countered", therefore we were just telling you like it is.


>I have a question for you 2 knuckleheads (Lexx and Brew). What
>would you call art? What would you call good art?

Art is whatever the artIST intends for his work to be. That's the beauty of art, it is undefined. It can be whatever the person making it decides it should be. If art was defined and confined to certain specifications, it would be pretty fucking boring wouldn't it? Everything in music would sound exactly the same, all pictures would be painted exactly the same, all buildings would be constructed exactly the same, shit hiphop probably wouldn't exist because, well, it was someone's idea to take the ART of music and change it up to appeal to the ghettos of America. So art is literally whatever the artist wants it to be, and whatever the audience interprets it to be.

If said audience doesn't like said art, they should go ahead and move on to the next piece of art and see if they like that. It doesn't just automatically become un-art because bentagain decided that the artist's (in this case, Common) work doesn't fit into the little box you created for him/her in your mother's basement. To question whether or not someone's work should be considered "art" just because YOU don't like it is sad and pathetic. If you don't like what he's doing, move on to the next one.

I would call "good art" stuff that I like. I would call "bad art" stuff that I don't like. But someone else may consider the stuff that I consider "bad art" to be "good art". Therefore, it's still art. And it's good to someone. Art wasn't supposed to be liked by everyone.

I don't like Common's last two albums either, that doesn't mean they're not "art".

with the audience interpretation bit.

I was so moved by a song a few years ago, it made me consider my own definition of art and what makes an artist. The answer I derived was true art evokes an emotion or an idea in the observer, subsequently good art evokes a desired emotion or a desired idea with the subjective word good determined by said observer. When I listened to Common's earlier artistic expressions I considered it good art as it made me feel and think about things I wanted to think and feel. His work lately doesn't do it for me anymore, and that was what I was expressing in the OP, exactly the feeling he inspired in me when I saw the Gatorade commercial.

of course, you have to get a couple of backhanded comments in. internet thugs...

another question for you and lexx. responding to this post and complaining about me complaining, what's the difference? aren't you doing exactly what you're accusing me of? It would be easy for me to say , I'm tired of cats telling me I can't say this or that about so and so, instead I've responded to your responses with tact in an effort to further explain my point of view at the risk of being further subjected to your 3rd grade remarks.

>with the audience interpretation bit.
>
>I was so moved by a song a few years ago, it made me consider
>my own definition of art and what makes an artist. The answer
>I derived was true art evokes an emotion or an idea in the
>observer, subsequently good art evokes a desired emotion or a
>desired idea with the subjective word good determined by said
>observer. When I listened to Common's earlier artistic
>expressions I considered it good art as it made me feel and
>think about things I wanted to think and feel. His work lately
>doesn't do it for me anymore, and that was what I was
>expressing in the OP, exactly the feeling he inspired in me
>when I saw the Gatorade commercial.

Which is why I covered it. You don't like Common's most recent work. Some people do. It's still art whether you like it or not. So again, your "point" is obsolete. And you don't even really have a point. You just said that the Gatorade commercial upset you. That's fine. You don't have to like it. That doesn't make his last two albums "not art" just because he decided to do a Gatorade commercial.


>of course, you have to get a couple of backhanded comments in.
>internet thugs...

Nothing backhanded about it. Was just giving it to you straight. I never threatened you so that takes the "internet thugs" comment out of the equation.


>another question for you and lexx. responding to this post and
>complaining about me complaining, what's the difference?
>aren't you doing exactly what you're accusing me of? It would
>be easy for me to say , I'm tired of cats telling me I can't
>say this or that about so and so, instead I've responded to
>your responses with tact in an effort to further explain my
>point of view at the risk of being further subjected to your
>3rd grade remarks.

Well that was your choice, continuing to respond even though we're calling you a moron for your 3rd grade opinion. Just like it's Common's choice as an artist to put out the last two albums he dropped. Were they subpar by his standards? In my opinion, yes. Clearly you agree with that. That doesn't mean that they aren't "art", as you seem to now be implying.

And neither one of us is on here complaining and calling an "artist" out on "selling out" and no longer making art. We're trying to tell you that sellout cries are for juveniles, and are stupid because, well, if you contribute even one bit to capitalism (which, living in America and not being homeless, you kind of have to), then you should be considered a "sellout" too, by your standards. In an earlier post, you laughed at the fact that you're a sellout for wearing clothes you bought in America and driving a car you also bought in America. Well, it's laughable to consider anyone who makes money doing something they believe in a "sellout" as well, that includes Common.

So again, this post should have ended a while ago. But what can I say, I have a desire to try and help people smarten up.

I know technically it can be called art, that's why I attempted to explain to you what I call good art, GOOD art.

Take your own advice and keep it moving...

I have an itch to help people, what can I say.

I didn't miss the point. What I'm saying is that just because you don't consider his art "good" art, doesn't make him a sell out. Good art is in the eye of the beholder. He thought the Gatorade commercial was a good opportunity to provide for his family doing something he believes in...it just so happens to be a popular drink. That doesn't make him a sell-out just because you don't like the direction his career has taken.

If anything, you're missed the point.

you're right I missed it. I already said "Good" is subjective and that my OP was the reaction from the commercial. so your point is, i can't say sellout? that's the way i felt. after reflecting on recent albums and movies it reinforced that feeling. not really sure how you can say i'm wrong if i'm just stating an opinion. its an opinion. feelings are never wrong, that's how you feel that's how you feel...

isn't a term anyone should use anymore. Anyone who contributes in any way to capitalism can be considered a sellout by the types of standards you started this post with.

But other than that, we agree. You don't like the direction Common's career has taken. I don't particularly love it either. But I'll support to the death his right to take his career in whatever direction he so desires within the law. But calling him a sellout is worthless, it means nothing. He sold his talents to make some money to support his family. That's what America is built on.

so his opinion is law. And if someone does something he doesnt like/get it isnt good. LOL. dude needs attention. At first I wanted to help too but the blatant stubbornes is just overwhelming.

get your head out of your ass. You can make good art and sell it for millions. How much it cost has nothing to do with quality genious. But a SMART person can do both and come away with money. THIS IS THEIR JOBS. you know that concept? where you get paid for making a product?

I already said Good is subjective...so of course its up to me what good art is, thats what subjective means. Thank you captain obvious.

What would Red Sox fans call Roger Clemens, Wade Boggs, and Johnny Damon? Probably sellouts

And there were no sellout cries when Kanye traded in his backpack for a Roc-a-Fella chain, skinny jeans, and did his best T-Pain impression for an entire album?

More specifically...

I recall a whole lot of Beatles fans being outraged by Nike's use of Revolution in a TV advertisement. According to you guys, their fans should have been like good for them, make your money Beatles. But as I remember it they were upset due to their feeling the message and/or intent for writing a song like Revolution was lost in an attempt to sell sneakers. Aren't they trying to preserve the integrity of the artist by voicing their disdain?

It seems like this whole discussion has turned into the acceptability of the term sellout, so I'll just call him a Tom if that helps you sleep better at night. Shit, he already has the bowtie...

>I already said Good is subjective...so of course its up to me
>what good art is, thats what subjective means. Thank you
>captain obvious.

But you still seem to be having a hard time grasping it.


>What would Red Sox fans call Roger Clemens, Wade Boggs, and
>Johnny Damon? Probably sellouts

I'm a lifelong Red Sox fan, born and raised in Boston. Not once did the term "sellout" ever come out of my mouth in any of those cases. I certainly called Johnny Damon a "cunt" amongst several other things, but the fact that he took the most money offered to him had nothing to do with why I hate him.


>And there were no sellout cries when Kanye traded in his
>backpack for a Roc-a-Fella chain, skinny jeans, and did his
>best T-Pain impression for an entire album?

Not by anyone I can think of, besides you now...so that makes one person I've heard utter the word "sellout" about Kanye's career trajectory


>More specifically...
>
>I recall a whole lot of Beatles fans being outraged by Nike's
>use of Revolution in a TV advertisement. According to you
>guys, their fans should have been like good for them, make
>your money Beatles. But as I remember it they were upset due
>to their feeling the message and/or intent for writing a song
>like Revolution was lost in an attempt to sell sneakers.
>Aren't they trying to preserve the integrity of the artist by
>voicing their disdain?

You're talking about the 1960's homie. Times have changed, that's the entire point. "Sellout" doesn't apply anymore. It really never should have, because it was foolish for anyone to assume that someone would turn down millions and sometimes billions of dollars because of a technicality.


>It seems like this whole discussion has turned into the
>acceptability of the term sellout, so I'll just call him a Tom
>if that helps you sleep better at night. Shit, he already has
>the bowtie...

Wow. That's good old fashioned family racism. Further proof that none of us should be wasting our time with you. Stupid me.

Damn, you don't remember him crying on Jay Leno

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMiMQXLo5oE

http://www.assatashakur.org/forum/open-forum/39711-why-did-kanye-west-sell-out-jay-leno.html

Website, called celebrity sellout
http://www.celebritysellout.co.uk/2009/02/kanye-west-thats-another-rapper-rebrand/

Interview with MIA, almost calling Jay-Z a sellout
M.I.A.: Jay became the biggest representation of rap music who’s still alive, started dating Beyoncé—everything was so much bigger and better with Jay-Z. I hope people don’t think that that wins. The fact that Nas didn’t become all this sort of stuff changes people’s perception about the music and the work he achieved in his lifetime. I don’t wanna say Jay-Z sold out, but I just feel like we have to wait another 10 years to see what happens. Jay-Z’s ambition was to become like Frank Sinatra, a household name all over the planet, and own a casino in Vegas and stuff like that. And I think Nas was really sticking to knowledge. I still think the biggest point about hip-hop is in there somewhere, what happens to those two artists

Nike used this for commercials in 1987. Capital Records, who owns the performance rights, meaning The Beatles version of the song, was paid $250,000. Michael Jackson, who owns the publishing rights, meaning use of the words and music, also had to agree and was paid for the song.
The Nike commercials caused a huge backlash from Beatles fans who felt that Nike was disrespecting the legacy of John Lennon, who probably would have objected to its use. There were plans to use more Beatles songs in future ads, but they were abandoned when it became clear it was not good business practice.

dude you need to stop crying because everyone is booing damon. the reason none of the other players got booed is because A) they didnt go to the yankees and B) damon sold out to the yankees for more money not to win a championship. think about it he did say in an interview that he woulnd not cut his hair for money, and then he goes and signs with the yankees for what $12 million more does he really need that after making millions already?

By rock9 on July 29, 2010 3:42 PM
Report any abuse or spam
Johnny Damon said this on May 1st, 2005:

“There’s no way I can go play for the Yankees, but I know they are going to come after me hard,” Damon said. “It’s definitely not the most important thing to go out there for the top dollar, which the Yankees are going to offer me. It’s not what I need.”....That's why I was unable to forgive him for going to New York. He sold out, and went back on his word. He turned his back on legions of members Red Sox Nation

from an MLB blog

do you need me to do more research, or is it OK to use the term sellout, should I use the term Tom, what do you suggest since you're the resident expert on etiquette. What term is PC enough, but still gets the point across, because I think sellout pretty much sums it up.

>dude you need to stop crying because everyone is booing
>damon.

Who's crying?


the reason none of the other players got booed is
>because A) they didnt go to the yankees and B) damon sold out
>to the yankees for more money not to win a championship. think
>about it he did say in an interview that he woulnd not cut his
>hair for money, and then he goes and signs with the yankees
>for what $12 million more does he really need that after
>making millions already?

You don't think he looked at the Yankees and said "shit, I can make tons of cash AND win a championship"?? You're a moron. That's a win win if I've ever seen one, and I don't even like the Yankees and I realize that.


>By rock9 on July 29, 2010 3:42 PM
>Report any abuse or spam
>Johnny Damon said this on May 1st, 2005:
>
>“There’s no way I can go play for the Yankees, but I know they
>are going to come after me hard,” Damon said. “It’s definitely
>not the most important thing to go out there for the top
>dollar, which the Yankees are going to offer me. It’s not what
>I need.”....That's why I was unable to forgive him for going
>to New York. He sold out, and went back on his word. He turned
>his back on legions of members Red Sox Nation

Excuse him Mr. PERFECT!!! I guess he forgot you never ever make a mistaaaake.

So you've never changed your mind? You've never said one thing and did the other because something persuaded you to change your mind? Oh, you have cause you're a human being like everyone else? You fucking sellout.

So you've never said something to appease a group of people because you knew that saying something else would cause a shitstorm? Oh wait, you have cause you're a human being like everyone else? You fucking sellout.


>from an MLB blog
>
>do you need me to do more research, or is it OK to use the
>term sellout, should I use the term Tom, what do you suggest
>since you're the resident expert on etiquette. What term is PC
>enough, but still gets the point across, because I think
>sellout pretty much sums it up.

No research was necessary in the first place. Humans are contradictory in nature. Throughout life you change and make life choices that are at times different from the decisions you thought you would make when you were 20. It's human nature, and does not need research for proof. Selling out is a term that should no longer be used. So no, I will not allow you to use the term without continuing to make fun of you for it.

but I think I already said that. The "dude you need to stop crying" comments were made by a fan on an mlb blog, but I think I already said that too. I only put those links and comments in there to prove to you and your boy Lexx that there are people other than myself who use the word sellout and defend the integrity of artists they believe in. Focus daniel son...

usually when someone is quoting someone else, they actually use quotation marks (" followed by ") to mark the beginning and end of the quote, then say something to the effect of "- from an mlb blog", which you did at the end, sure. But it was hard to discern what, if anything, was your original text, and what was quoted from said blog, because the original blog itself had quotations and was disorganized.

Another way to differentiate between your original text and the quoted text, which is popular on this site, is to put ">" at the beginning of each line of the quote, therefore separating the two so the reader will know exactly which is your text and which is the quoted text.

Next time, try being a little more grammatically correct, that way confusion will not ensue.

Either way, you didn't really respond to anything.

JeeZ this dude...

Congratulations.

very original

If anyone is a sellout by your standards its her. Not to me though, to me she is a marketing product. She was basically manufactured. Now she would throw these terms around so peons would eat it up and buy into her art. Which again is smart. But that's how she makes her money.but her comments have as much weight as yours. Noone is a sellout if they can make money to feed their family. Nit by using their status for promo work. So what that fans were upset about beatles? Did their music sound different after the nike thing? Did common ever say he wasn't gonna do commercials? Would you call Ray Charles a sellout for doing pepsi work? Or michael Jordan for nike? Cause jordan played just as well after the deal. So did tiger.

I'm a sox fan too but lol as using sox fans as some standard example. Because all sox fans aparantly act and think the same.

If you call him a Tom then you are even dumber than you appear. Music is business. If you think otherwise then you need to wake up. Its his job. So if a man who happens to be black is making it and is succeeding you will call him a racially charged insult? You are a real piece of work then. You obviously live in some fantasy land where artists bills are all paid for depending on how "good" they are. Because being business smart means you're a Tom.jeez why even bother. And for the record, you actually referenced Red Sox fans as some intellectual standard? I live in Boston, you could have kept that example

Not to forget the song with the Jonas Brothers. But what triggered me to reply to this thread is the Album Pack FM released this year and in "I fucking hate rappers" he called Common a hypocrite, which I believe he is. When Common dissed Ice Cube in "The Bitch in Yoo" he practically said Ice cube should stick to acting and gave him shit for not keeping it real. Well look who is talking now huh? I got nothing against Common in general since I still listen to his music, but I do have a problem with him being a hypocrite.

Great point.


_____________________________________

<--------------my bday cake (dopest cake ever)!!!

www.ihearthiphop.com
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Rappers forget that this is what they do for a living. Same thing applies to BEP's when I remember they were calling Roots sellouts for having Badu do the You Got Me hook. Then they went and got JT. Thats not selling out, thats just people running their mouth without thinking.

Erykah Badu, age 37 maybe, mother of 3 children I believe, will serve 6 months of probation and paid a $500 dollar fine for her video for window seat.

http://www.suntimes.com/entertainment/people/2609300,CST-FTR-badu18.article

what term would you use to describe someone who believes enough in their vision to risk their freedom? ARTIST!!!

You forget how she got on in the first place? Do you forget how she put on the head wrap and the whole persona in order to "sell" the image? I dont agree with the term sellout in general, but going by YOUR definition, Erykah did alot more to sell her music than is apparant by Common's actions. And good for her, I support smart business. Also, according to YOUR definition of a sellout and following YOUR theory, she partnered up with Lil Wayne to SELL HER MUSIC. She also acted in movies, not unlike Common, to SELL HER IMAGE. She basically did everything Common did. But yet you call her opposite. Go figure.

(again, I support any artist who knows how to sell)

you're confusing two separate posts.

my definition of sellout is in the 3rd reply

the reference to guest spots on jonas brothers and lady gaga records was made by other posters

your reference to doing songs with mainstream mcs is taken from an article I DIDNT WRITE, the death of the conscious rapper post

are you really comparing her role in cider house rules to common's smoking aces role, really?

last i checked, badu was still working with ?uest, madlib, sa-ra, 9th, etc...don't really see how she switched up her image (see images below)

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/8052/blackaugust.jpg

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/6594/commonumc.jpg

i guess the words sell-out and conscious trigger your tourette posting tyraids. you and brew need therapy. its funny because i've seen other posts saying the same thing i'm saying with the obmission of your trigger words. i think you've missed the point

and you're currently in therapy.

You've allowed other people's business and personal decisions to affect your daily existence and mood, which is counterproductive to your self-advancement.

We're just trying to help you move past that so that you may fulfill your own destiny, rather than being upset about someone else's. Removing "sell-out" from your vocabulary is only the start to your recovery.

"Concerned" and "passionate" about our patient's recovery are more apt terms than "mad" would be to describe lexx and I's responses to your troublesome posts. Once you've fully recovered you'll understand and appreciate the time we've taken to assist in your recovery, rather than enabling your behavior.

>Erykah Badu, age 37 maybe, mother of 3 children I believe,
>will serve 6 months of probation and paid a $500 dollar fine
>for her video for window seat.
>
>http://www.suntimes.com/entertainment/people/2609300,CST-FTR-badu18.article
>
>what term would you use to describe someone who believes
>enough in their vision to risk their freedom? ARTIST!!!

What's wrong with a brotha making endorsements? Its called paying bills. You gotta be broke in order to maintain rep?

So its not OK to promote Gatorade, which is perfectly healthy ... BUT ITS OK TO PROMOTE HENNESSY, like the Roots. .... The Roots, though I love their music, sold out big time ... By the way, Common can do whatever he pleases at this point ... He's arguably the greatest solo rap artist of all time ...

which makes sense since hip-hop has promoted hennessey for so long. they were also on the red star thing promoted by heineken, which hip-hop also promotes.

as stated previously, other artists do commercials with hip-hop in the forefront, dre, rza, b.o.b, what's hip-hop about the Gatorade commercial.

to do anything outside of stuff that relates to hiphop. I didn't know there was such a rule.

What's all this bullshit about letting him get his money?

Dude has his gold albums and his big movies, he's set for a while; he ain't no underground up-start.

Plus the sucka don't eat nothing but vegetables, ain't no worries about him running out of broccoli money anytime soon.

to tell ANYONE when they've made enough money??

Get. The. Fuck. Outta. Here.

I'ma do whatever I gotta do to get information on all you and bentagain's finances, and then tell you "yo, chill bruh, you've made enough money. Why don't you go back to what you were doing 10 years ago, you were much cooler then".

I can't believe how stupid some of you people really are.

Common has made enough money to cease compromising his art and his audience.

Done.












As for my finances?

Non-existent, homeboy;

enjoy your crusade.

>Common has made enough money to cease compromising his art
>and his audience.

Your opinion of his music is subjective. He probably thinks it's great music. Too bad that's where his head's at, because his old music was so much better IN MY OPINION, but his art is his art. I bet he doesn't think he's compromised his art, I bet he thinks it's great.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean he should change it. Can't please everybody. He's making money and feeding his family, he's happy. He shouldn't have to change for nobody. Not you, not me, not nobody. Only opinion that matters is his and his daughter's. For you to think that he should stop doing something just because you happen to not like what HE decided to do with HIS life and career is selfish and fucking stupid.


>As for my finances?
>
>Non-existent, homeboy;
>
>enjoy your crusade.

Sorry to hear that.

My original point still stands.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2440333&mesg_id=2440333&page=

but I deal the real

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2442152&mesg_id=2442152&page=