I have a question on some of the lyrics to "Ms. Hill":

We used to read Frances Cress or anything by Third Word Press
Impressed by the power of the word to digest
Hatched ideas in our heads like birds in a nest
You gave birth to a new sound like ?inaudible? West
Should I be saying all of this while the mic is on?
I might as well let it out cause one day I might be gone...

OK, why does Talib Kweli question wether or not to bring up that he and Lauryn read Frances Cress Welsing? Does the fact they read the "Isis Papers" which says that whites are a disease to mankind also called "albino mutants," have something to do with the rumor she said she'd rather kill her kids than have white people buy her album?

I don't really understand what else Kweli could possibly be talking about, acting all secretive and shit...

it's "Donda West", as in Kanye's mother. But as for your question, I'm just as clueless as you are.

haha, was about to say the same thing...Just tell me what kinda S-Type, Donda West like.

Does it threaten you when coloured folks (assuming you are white) read about the oppression of third world people and don't invite you to the party? I don't mean to come across so harsh, but I want to challenge you to think through what you find questionable a little further. I'm not saying that I agree with Welsing's views on white people, but surely Talib, Lauryn and all people interested in pressing political issues should have all the right in the world to read controversial things and discuss their ideas publicly without fear of being persecuted. "Should I say this on the mic?" he asks. Well, its quite evident that when Lauryn expressed herself openly people made up all sorts of grotesque things about her. I'm sure Talib is speaking to the fact that he is openly speaking about their ideas knowing that people might not receive them well but that he will not let himself become censored. I say good for him.

YO!!!!!!!!
to think that there is a racial difference in humans is a farce.Color has to do with the evolution of a species environment.I.e. we all gonna look like native americans in several hundred years if we stayt in america.there is more genetic differences in various 'white' folks than there are in 'black' & 'white' folks.its a way to keep the human mind conditioned into thinking we are seperate.......

:come together right now:over me

poetik

re-read... my point is that for us to come to that realization we need to discuss all parts of these issues, not just the parts we like.

white person buy my album"... ?

And I don't subscribe to Dr. Frances Cress's ideas. I'm white. There are two types of reactions white people TYPICALLY have to this. First, there is the white guy who is so desperate to be accepted by blacks that they will agree with anything out a black person's mouth (society labels these people "wiggers"). Then there is the white dude who won't even read books like this.

I am neither. I read the book, and have to say I think she's nuts. We are talking about the person who actually spent TIME to argue that the designers of the Washington Monument choose white marble over black marble in their design TO OPRESS BLACK PEOPLE... a claim that while possible, if pretty random and laughable.

And if all white people are "genetically inferior" could she dare explain Albert Einstein? William Shakespeare? Nicola Tesla? Howard Zinn? Noam Chowsky? the list goes on for ever...

Furthermore, unlike the white people she describes, I am not "socially agressive" and "raicst" towards non-whites. I think that comes from upbringing, not natural.

She has the right to say anything as we all do, its just a fucked up thing to say. I'd like to know if that's for real or not that she said that, I've heard it wasn't

on the record, she never said that she'd rather kill her children before letting white people buy her album. Apparently, some radio personality started the rumor.

it was some crazy nut who called in to the howard stern show and said he's seen her say it on mtv (right, u think if one of the biggest pop stars in the world said that On MTV! we wouldnt all know about it and have seen the clip repeatedly on every news channel) - anyway, howard then got lauryn and clef on the show and the accuser as well and they asked him what he'd seen and he crumbled . . . and was like "oh a friend of mine said that he saw you ...." ended up with the dude giving a public apology and saying how much his wife loved 'killing me softly' then howard stern was his usual charming self toward lauryn clef got slightly mad, lauryn was diplomatic end of story.

it was some crazy nut who called in to the howard stern show and said he's seen her say it on mtv (right, u think if one of the biggest pop stars in the world said that On MTV! we wouldnt all know about it and have seen the clip repeatedly on every news channel) - anyway, howard then got lauryn and clef on the show and the accuser as well and they asked him what he'd seen and he crumbled . . . and was like "oh a friend of mine said that he saw you ...." ended up with the dude giving a public apology and saying how much his wife loved 'killing me softly' then howard stern was his usual charming self toward lauryn clef got slightly mad, lauryn was diplomatic end of story.

it was some crazy nut who called in to the howard stern show and said he's seen her say it on mtv (right, u think if one of the biggest pop stars in the world said that On MTV! we wouldnt all know about it and have seen the clip repeatedly on every news channel) - anyway, howard then got lauryn and clef on the show and the accuser as well and they asked him what he'd seen and he crumbled . . . and was like "oh a friend of mine said that he saw you ...." ended up with the dude giving a public apology and saying how much his wife loved 'killing me softly' then howard stern was his usual charming self toward lauryn clef got slightly mad, lauryn was diplomatic end of story.

If she really said sumthin like that, it would be a lot more prevelant than it is. I am sure Columiba would have dropped her also/ The only reason that the rumor got so far is that when people hear things from a friend or whatever, they never check for reliable sources. That's why that false rumor about Tommy and Donna Karan and all the others not wanting blacks to wear their clothes went on for years and years. People trust things that this dude on the street tells them long before published reports.

I think I explicitly said that I do not agree with theories of racial naturalism. Quote me where I did and your defensive posture will be redeemed.

Second, from what I've heard, Lauryn never said she would rather her kids starve than have white people buy her album. Apparently that was a rumour based on a more innocent comment about not making her album with a white audience in mind. Furthermore, EVEN IF she said the above statement, one must ask theirself where this impression of white people comes from. I don't support it, but I do understand the social frustration a person of colour endures in the process of reaching such off base conclusions about white people. If black people thinking such negative thoughts bothers you, then why not stop attacking the system's victims and directing your fight against the social elite that embeds these fears in people.

I've heard everything from she's guilty as sin to the entire thing was a media conspiracy to have her lynched by white soccer moms in an ambush after the VMA's.

>I think I explicitly said that I do not agree with theories
>of racial naturalism. Quote me where I did and your defensive
>posture will be redeemed.

Oh ok, I agree. I interpreted your post as you dick-riding Dr. Welsing.

I cant believe this rumor is still alive... havent you heard the Howard STern interview yet... this is where all the BS comes from.
LISTENNNN!

Dowload:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=E1IA0L6G

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=E1IA0L6G

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=E1IA0L6G

L doesn't care about white people.

lol. sorry, just had to take the time to laugh..

...I'd just like to nail her." LMAO

How does he get away with shit like that?

Thanks for posting the link though. Now when I here somebody sayin some shit about her like that I can bring this up. That always sounded so fuckin rediculous to me...Children starve..gimme a fuckin break. I just hope she comes out with another masterpiece soon.

>Furthermore, unlike the white people she describes, I am not
>"socially agressive"

actually, your self-righteousness could be described as socially passive-agressive. Distancing yourself from how you participate as a white person in a rascist society is a form of privilege that self-proclaimed progressive whites take advantage of every day. It is the assuming of this "beyond racism" role that is yet another form of how racism (internalized domination) works.

. . . u should research what ur speakin on, like lauryn, before u do; She didn't say anything even remotely similar to that.

>Well, its
>quite evident that when Lauryn expressed herself openly people
>made up all sorts of grotesque things about her.

Is the comment about not wanting white people to buy her album an example of her openly expressing herself or one of the grotesque things people made up about her?

I think she made some candid remarks about who she felt was her audience, and white corporate America conjured up all sorts of grotesque stories about her based on those comments. The establishment loves to make you fear Lauryn and other people of colour who don't cater, hand and feet, to whites. If you don't believe me, watch out for Arabs, there may be one behind you right now.

what i was wondering was if she made that exact comment, which is pretty much like fuck you if you're caucasian regardless of your character or beliefs, or something more rational along the lines of what you said, about not specifically catering to a white audience.

I'm not saying that I
>agree with Welsing's views on white people, but surely Talib,
>Lauryn and all people interested in pressing political issues
>should have all the right in the world to read controversial
>things and discuss their ideas publicly without fear of being
>persecuted.


Wonder if you'd be saying this if it was some Muslims accused of "supporting terrorists" by reading/talking about some so-called "dangerous" or subversive writings.

Not that I disagree with you, but many people have a hard time seeing the principle behind this, as you have expressed it. I just wonder if the principle will be lost when it's chlothed in something the media calls "Islam" (which is certainly not the same as the religion called Islam).

When he said he didn't know if he should be saying this on the mic, I think he was talking about the whole song in general, b/c I'm sure he knew the OKP haters were gonna attack this song no matter how genuine he was being.

And he did get clowned by some OKPs, so I think he was just acknowledging that he would get clowned, for making a song about someone that's still in the game.

Yea I think u're right

where everyone can hear this and make their own decisions about it. really i don't see ANYTHING controversial or bad directed towards Lauryn, except the Isis Papers comment... and she has a history of raicst rumors flying around her

Favorite Frances Cress Welsing quote: "On both St. Vanlentine's Day and Mother's Day, the white male gives gifts of chocolate candy with nuts. . . . If his sweetheart ingests 'chocolate with nuts,' the white male can fantasize that he is genetically equal to the Black male."

Someone needs to "sig" this right now!! Wow, how over the top is that?!

amazing stuff.

*runs out to the store to buy chocolate dildo to put in the freezer for next Mother's day*

It sometimes seems like his music is intended more for black people, but I'm white and Talib is one of my 3 favorite rappers(Joe Budden and DMX)...

I don't think he intends to offend any white people here and I don't think he views them any differently. Disecting the lyrics he just says that they read the books or writings and that they hatched ideas into their head. He never said he agreed with them or believed the same things as them.

"first thing i said is get the f*ck out my face
asshole probably think it got somethin to do with race"

What's good with this track with Talib and Dead Prez??

The 2nd verse(not talib)...

"i hate callin n***as n***as so i'mma take it backwards
but i got no love for whitey, i love callin' 'em crackers"


i mean, explain that to me please.................

Do white people lose jobs when black people call them crackers? Is it your ego? Does it get hurt? Remember soldier, they can call you all the names in the world but they can never take away your privelege!!

the line kinda seemed disrespectful... maybe it's just me... does it affect me? no... i just wanted to know... i mean really, if that line was the other way around and it was a white dude, would you think he was racist?

but do I really need to waste time explaining the social consequences of white racism destroying lives versus the nothing but a bruised white ego racism of coloured people?

that's completly unfair, you're challenging a seemingly non-racist person on the wrongs of people he has nothing to do with.

You are 100% correct. I re-read the whole exchange and realized that I am being unfair in my delivery. The content, I stand by but, yeah, what I wrote above does come across as a little arrogant. Maybe I'm just a little sensitive to the topic and I am so used to "certain" people getting their back up in convos about race that I now am automatically prepared for battle everytime. Its ironic, because on the flipside I spend so much time in my life trying to convince coloured folks that working class solidarity with whites (on our own terms) is the only direction we can take towards building a better society. Thanks for checkin' me on that.

To Dolphin, no ill will was intended in my post. At the same time, however, I do understand why Kweli feels this way.

Just the way you talk confuses me really.... I didn't even know how to respond... Maybe I'm just not smart enough or whatever.... But you understand why Kweli feels what way? That wasn't Kweli's line, it was someone from Dead Prez... Talib was on the track too though, but he didn't say anything like that...

>Just the way you talk confuses me really.... I didn't even
>know how to respond... Maybe I'm just not smart enough or
>whatever.... But you understand why Kweli feels what way? That
>wasn't Kweli's line, it was someone from Dead Prez... Talib
>was on the track too though, but he didn't say anything like
>that...

LOL... well, that makes even more sense if it was deadprez. They are black nationalists. Their goal is the complete separation of black society from white society. Are you talking about Sharp Shooters? I thought you were mentioning a line you said you heard Kweli say. That's the impression I got from your original post. Anyway, now I don't get why you are confused about the song at all.

I have the track titled 'Ridin', but it could be wrong... And I never knew that about them, never really listened to them either. I only grabbed the track cause Talib was on it... I'm not really confused about the song, just questioning the content really and wanted to see how that line came across to other people that heard that song or read it there..

Yea I hear you for sure, & that's cool of you to admit after u decided u felt differently than what you wrote at first. I've been thinking about it & what you said about reverse racism from black people is kind of true, like it isn't that harmful. It comes from the fucked up history behind this country & for white people to see that instead of personalizing it I think progress can be made. Rather than just being like fuck Dead Prez & other real hip-hop artists.

you were actually quite clear and FAR from disrespectful.

The fact is that there is a HUGE difference if Kweli says this and if Eminem (let's say, just for fun) said the opposite. HUGE! If Eminem said he loved calling black folks n*ggers, he would have an entire history of racism behind him giving power and meaning to his words. He would have institutions backing him up, he would have numerous leaders in the government, big business, law enforcement and the Church silently applauding him (yes, this is a wild generalization, but I'm just trying to say that racism happens on personal, institutional and cultural levels).

Kweli says cracker, and -- you're right -- he's just bruising egos. Not bringing a whole history of oppression along with his words. The power structure in the US is Eurocentric. It was white people that have oppressed African people since slavery times, and orchestrated the systemic destruction of any significant resistance to the inherent power inequities of this system throughout the country's history.

ALL white people? Of course not, but with the overarching culture and power structure clearly dominated by white people and used to both consciously and unconsciously build up white institutions and wealth, while simultanreously negating any significat attempts to give power to black institutions and cultural norms, it is clear that cries of "reverse racism" just don't add up. Oppression is discrimination + power, and black people just don't have that kind of power in society to oppress with words in the same way.

.

and I'm sorry you feel that way about cooked veggies ;-)

you had to say it...

more than just "bruised egos" though, it's also a message of hatred & that's what's being overlooked. what sucks about it so much for enlightened caucasian listeners is being inspired by the anti-babylon message & then brought down with a racial slur thrown in. now who are you going to side with? the society of oppression or the artist who possibly doesn't like you solely because of the color of your skin? you find yourself alienated by both sides as opposed to just one

there are probably a lot of white people who would actually choose society's oppression over feelings of alienation from art that they love. Also music can provide confidence & a sense of identity which are things, deeper than ego in my opinion tho that can be a part of it, which can motivate one to overcome hurtles such as oppression. So it's not all cut & dry in one way, tho what you described is in my opinion very relevent as well. But the effects of careless use of reverse racism in otherwise conscious & dope music could prevent social change rather than help it, & alienate white people &/or people with social power who are otherwise sympathetic to the cause. I'm not saying I agree w/any of this in particular but more food for thought

Yeah, I wasn't apologizing for the content of what I said. We are definitely on the same side of the fence. The reason I apologized is because I felt like I was pushing someone around with ideas rather engage in conversation. I don't like condescending people unless I feel they ask for it.

"coloured folks"



What is this about? I've seen you refer to African Americans as "coloured folks" a number of times regarding this particular topic, and I find it very offensive. I mean, granted we are people of color, however we have not been referred to (publicly) as "colored" for over 50 years; so for you to say this - whether it was once or 20 times, it's as if you're reverting back to Jim Crow.

I'm not trying to spark an online "beef", I just need to understand why you're constantly using that word.

I hope that you can take my comments in with an open mind.

I don't believe he's from here so he may not know the PC terms for African-Americans.

Sorry sister, by "coloured folks" I am not referring specifically to black, or African-American people. As a person of colour, "coloured folks" was a way of referring to people of colour in general. I didn't mean it to come of in the Jim Crowesque manner that you interpreted. peace queen amina, heigh 5'7", caramel complexion, body like heavan.

You are 100% correct. I re-read the whole exchange and realized that I am being unfair in my delivery. The content, I stand by but, yeah, what I wrote above does come across as a little arrogant. Maybe I'm just a little sensitive to the topic and I am so used to "certain" people getting their back up in convos about race that I now am automatically prepared for battle everytime. Its ironic, because on the flipside I spend so much time in my life trying to convince coloured folks that working class solidarity with whites (on our own terms) is the only direction we can take towards building a better society. Thanks for checkin' me on that.

To Dolphin, no ill will was intended in my post. At the same time, however, I do understand why Kweli feels this way.

explain what "cracker" means

I think he means that he feels uncomfortable calling his own people a derogatory term like "nigga" but he probably feels pressured to do so by the Hip-Hop community which just uses that term 24/7. He on the other hand could care less for white people so he has no problem calling them "crackas." That's what I think, but I may be wrong.

i mean he's racist, doesn't it speak for itself?

sure seemed that way to me...


and dude up there completely lost me with his posts, i don't even understand what he's talkin about really... i just wanted some other opinions about the content of this line..

thank you for yours...

word, i mean u have the right to express that u feel that that was a fucked up lyric. that's not necessarily ego talking, that's critical discussion & analyzation. I think it was fucked up, I feel like Dead Prez are 95% right about everything they say & are just quick to throw out a cracker now & I'm not with it when they say that. Somethin i've been kind of desensitized to i guess b/c the overall anti-babylon message is still something i'm with. I feel like white people are missing out if we (they) turn off to Dead Prez b/c of this & not looking deeper. I think enlightenment among a minority of white people in understanding a history of oppression that we had nothing to do with & don't support is still something that's relatively new in society, & can easily be overlooked among a majority of white people who still support oppression to varrying degrees. Hopefully enlightened people of all races can unite more as time continues & work towards a common goal against oppression & all aspects of the situation improve.

that opinion may adjust w/time but i think that's how i feel as of now.

Look, all I was saying is there are real reasons why many black people feel contempt for whites and that there is a very different impact on coloured people who experience racism and white people who hear a racist remark from coloured people. Deadprez, for all their faults, are only reacting to a system that oppresses working class people. Like blunted said below, I agree with most of what deadprez talks about but am critical of their racial politics. At the same time though, its hard to really blame them for coming to such conclusions about white people.

I guess I just tend to never look or think about anyone differently, whatever race they are. I seem to get into racism conversations a lot, but I never find myself talking about a specific race or color as to reasons why things the way the are. Or about anything really for that matter. Everybody's an individual. I have nothing to do with the system or how things are run. I'm struggling to get a job myself. So when I hear something that's negative about "white people" or "black people" when someone makes that generaliztion to differentiate them it just makes me wonder why? Just makes me wonder about that individuals character and things like that.. Maybe it's just me...

Just thought I'd address some of your comments here.

>I guess I just tend to never look or think about anyone
>differently, whatever race they are.

Know that although we are all different, we also carry with us histories particular to our racial and ethnic group. We carry the stories passed down to us about how our ancestors acted and were treated by others. Also, we live in a world that DOES distinguish between people based on race, and grants privileges to some and takes the rights away from others. This is very real, and informs both who we are as people as well as how we perceive others of different backgrounds.

>I seem to get into racism
>conversations a lot, but I never find myself talking about a
>specific race or color as to reasons why things the way the
>are.

Part of the problem is that we have been trained (schooled) to think about things superficially. It is our job as conscious people to learn about each other's histories, cultural ways and social norms that are often obscured from the mainstream.

>Everybody's an
>individual. I have nothing to do with the system or how things
>are run.

Yet you participate in the system. You have a job. You pay taxes. You accept the taxi ride, not knowing that the driver passed by three black men up the street. You apply for the job, and take it when it is ofered to you, not realizing that your whiteness was most likely a factor in you getting hired over a person of color.

I don't know you, and these things might not have anything to do with your life, but I'm trying to say that your white privilege is at work every day of your life (even if you ARE struggling to pay the bills like everyone else). We all have something to do with the system, and the first part of changing the system is acknowledging it exists, learning about it, being able to name it, speak about it, and work with others to change it in our lives.

Let me take it a step further...

I was working as a temp in a mailroom for 2 months. Did a great job, couldn't have done anything more really, the people I worked with recommended me for the job, everyone wanted me to work there. They ended up hiring a man of color who had not previously been with the company. They told me he had more mailroom experience. But really how much experience do you need to work in a mailroom? Especially one that I had been working in for 2 months and got to know exactly how everything works.

Now I hate to look back at things, and hate to even bring this up. I refuse to look at it this way, but it certainly is a possibility. But maybe myself being white had an effect on me not getting that job. Because I know this company feels really strongly about diversity.

The point is I just don't buy into the fact that because you're of color it's harder to get a job. It's hard for ANYBODY. I've experienced it firsthand. I don't think the system is any harder for you than it is for me.

And when I say struggling to find a job, I mean it. They moved me over to a different position, but now it's only part time and I barely make any money. And I'm STILL a temp.

I hate even doing this, differentiating between races and color. I don't have anything to do with the way things are run nor do I have anything to do with what happened several hundred years ago. My best friend was black. I always have and always will view everyone as the same, as an individual. And you show me what you're about and what your character is and I make decisions about you, as an individual, based off that... What your heritage is or supposedly who "your people" are makes not one bit of difference to me, and it shouldn't to anyone. Some people just can't look past those things and let it have an affect on them for their entire lives.

Just how I feel...

By the way, congrats to the dude who got my job, I show him no ill will and give him a chance just like I would with anybody. Seems like a nice person...

>Let me take it a step further...
>
>I was working as a temp in a mailroom for 2 months. Did a
>great job, couldn't have done anything more really, the people
>I worked with recommended me for the job, everyone wanted me
>to work there. They ended up hiring a man of color who had not
>previously been with the company. They told me he had more
>mailroom experience. But really how much experience do you
>need to work in a mailroom? Especially one that I had been
>working in for 2 months and got to know exactly how everything
>works.

Well ... there's a million and one stories out there. Like I said, not all of them go neatly along with the big picture of how racism works. It is just not that tidy. Its messy, and people's individual stories sometimes contradict the big picture when looked at on an individual basis. The case often is that among working class people, racial divisions are exploited to further divide working people. Historically poor white people have been given a "leg up" on people of color to make them feel superior ... certain benefits. Now ever since the 80s and Reganomics, race has been used to divide working people using the notion of "affirmative action" to piss off white workers by thinking they are losing their jobs to people of color who are not as competent as they are ("really how much experience do you need to work in a mailroom?"). The fact is that you were a TEMP worker, and were hired to do a job temporarily until the mail company found a permanent position. They finally ended up hiring someone who had some credentials and experience. Happens all the time.


>maybe myself being white had an effect on me
>not getting that job. Because I know this company feels really
>strongly about diversity.

again, "diversity" and "affirmative action" is now used to divide working people along racial lines, pissing off working class whites who have historically gotten benefits because of their whiteness. (edit) "Diversity" also serves to help white people feel less guilty about reaping the benefits they inherited from the legacies of white supremacy and racial exploitation in this country. They feel that if they can have a "diverse" work environment (read: often a single black person that can add "color" to their workplace or organization) they have done their part at ending the systemic inequities inherent in the system.

>The point is I just don't buy into the fact that because
>you're of color it's harder to get a job. It's hard for
>ANYBODY. I've experienced it firsthand. I don't think the
>system is any harder for you than it is for me.

And you know this how? Because of your experience living in the US as a white person? You can only know if you live as a person of color ... or take a person of color's word for it (something that you are not presently willing to do).

>And when I say struggling to find a job, I mean it. They moved
>me over to a different position, but now it's only part time
>and I barely make any money. And I'm STILL a temp.

All of this is not to say that white people don't struggle to get by, are not down-and-out, etc. The majority of people living below the poverty line in the US are white.

>I don't have anything to do with the way things are run
>nor do I have anything to do with what happened several
>hundred years ago.

true, but you live in a world that was created from that exploitation. The wealth of this country was created out of slavery, AS WELL AS the social and cultural institutions that we take part in every day.

>My best friend was black.

*sigh*

>I always have and
>always will view everyone as the same, as an individual.

Okay, this is a key point. And I agree with it to a degree, BUT the idea that everyone is an individual is a CLASSIC white notion. It has tis roots in the Enlightenment, and was brought over to this country by the same righ white folks that made great fortunes off the backs of the Africans they exploited the labor from (while talking about freedom and liberty for all). White people all over the place see themselves as individuals, and understand it as the basis for all reality ... this is what defines Eurocentrism (the notion that European ideas and cultural values and practices are "normal" while everyone else's are somehow exotic of part of a distince culture). Many people the wrold over do not hold this belief that everyone is an individual. I eprsonally think that it is arrogant to imagine that you are not a part of a greater whole ... a collective, or community. Yet it is a well-documented fact that this country was founded upon the principles of individualism, which came out of a specific cultural and historical context, and gave rise to a particular worldview that was supported by financial institutions (capitalism ... "bootstraps" mentality) and social ideologies (color-blindness) thaty help to, in the end, subtlely perpetuate racism through denying people of color the truth of their collective exerience and cultural expressions (even though these things are also varied within the community).

>What your heritage is or supposedly who "your people" are
>makes not one bit of difference to me, and it shouldn't to
>anyone.

I am white BTW.

peace.

I know that it's hard to get a job because I can't get one! Just like anyone else struggling to... Being white has not helped me in any way to get one, that's a fact. I can't speak for anyone else. My belief about everyone being an individual ain't come from any history lesson. I made that determination on my own because I find it to be truth in my eyes. If everyone TRULY believed that, none of this would even be in question. I don't even know much about any race's history, including my own. I know about slavery and I damn sure don't agree with it. So how can you or anyone put me in the same distinction as the people that made this country up just because my skin is the same color as theirs? It's like being mad at me for something that I didn't do... Doesn't make sense to me. So all of this ideaology and Eurocentricsim or whatever they called is all irrelevant to me. They mean nothing. I've never even heard of that stuff til you brought it up.

I know they care about diversity because they have classes there that deal with it. They make you look at all the people involved in your life, you doctor, dentist, priest, etc... It's called the Global Beads class... And you get a different color bead for whatever race that person is... Then at the end they make you look at your beads and how diverse everything is in your life. And they ask you stuff like if you'd be willing to change to different people because of their race... THEY want you to become more diverse..

Does that have anything to do with why I wasn't hired for that job? I don't know, won't ever know, nor do I care... It is what it is... They hired a different person, I move on..

I have no intention to discuss this any further because it's something that we clearly aren't going to agree on. I have the way I feel and you have the way you feel, ain't nothin gonna change that...

I'm just speaking on some things that what you've said is making me think about. I'm glad we're having this discussion. I ain't trying to pass on any negativity, just build on knowledge that was passed down to me.

>My belief about everyone being an individual
>ain't come from any history lesson. I made that determination
>on my own because I find it to be truth in my eyes.

But because it is the truth in YOUR eyes doesn't make it the truth. MANY PEOPLE think differently and experience life through their experience as cultured beings ... as belonging to a community ... a collective. It is important to them and their survival, so when you say:

>If
>everyone TRULY believed that, none of this would even be in
>question.

that's not entirely true, because if everyone subscribed to your philosophy of individualism, you would be necessarily denying many people's experience and worldview. and since, like i said before, individualism is an ideology that came from Europe (whether or not you came to it "naturally" is irrelevant ... you were still influenced by the generaions of people thinking that individualism was the best way to look at things in this country), this denial of their culture can easily become a form of Eurocentric violence that is still commonly practiced by many white people.

>I don't even know much about any race's history,
>including my own.

Learning about these histories can only help us not repeat he mistakes of he past, to know where we came from, and how to better understand each other as we live together on this planet.

>I know about slavery and I damn sure don't
>agree with it. So how can you or anyone put me in the same
>distinction as the people that made this country up just
>because my skin is the same color as theirs?

I never said you were the same. I just said we are ALL living in a place that was formed by this history and the many cultural practices and social institutions that came out of it. We can't help what happened in the past, but we can seek to understand how it affects our lives today, both in how the world is run and how we ourselves act within the structures that were set up as a by-product of this history.

>It's like being
>mad at me for something that I didn't do... Doesn't make sense
>to me.

I ain't mad at you man.

>So all of this ideaology and Eurocentricsim or whatever
>they called is all irrelevant to me. They mean nothing.

Only because you don't allow them to mean anything to you. They certainly HAVE MEANING ... its up to you to make sense of it for your life, cuz it definitely is relevant.

>It's called the Global Beads class... And you get a different
>color bead for whatever race that person is... Then at the end
>they make you look at your beads and how diverse everything is
>in your life. And they ask you stuff like if you'd be willing
>to change to different people because of their race... THEY
>want you to become more diverse..

who is THEY? Why do you think they want your life to be more diverse?

>Does that have anything to do with why I wasn't hired for that
>job? I don't know, won't ever know, nor do I care...

what I wanna know is ...

what does this have to do with Lauren Hill wanting to kill her children because some deformed albino buys her album? TELL ME!













;-)

Does anyone know what the sample is?

The sample is Ben Kweller's "In Other Words" from his first cd Sha Sha. For me, it's a little weird to hear such a familiar song sped up that much. Both of his cd's are pretty good, at least I thought so a few years ago. I still like him but t's always hard to tell how much is nostalgia/familiarity and how much is that it's just good.

Side Note: first post. hi all.

he is clearly referring to the fact that he respectfully acknowledges that he is being very public with his story telling here, where he is specifically speaking directly to a person we all know of. it aint about that one line about the book.

...lauryn hill toured throughout europe this summer, only europe

why?

she feels she gets more love from the fans there

how do i know this?

she announced it from the stage when i saw her in Paris

furthermore afterwards i hung with her band and met her white tour manager and several of her white roadies

if this woman did not like white people listening to her music and did not wish to interact with them why the hell would she tour in scandinavia? why wouldnt she have an all black tour crew?

i saw firsthand that all those allegations of racist comments from lauryn just dont match up to her everyday behavior

just bullshit internet rumors- yeah i said it- internet rumors

also- as somebody already said that line says nothing about AGREEING with the ideas in that book- just having read it and discussed it

a person wishing to develop an educated, and informed political perspective should digest and analyze material from a variety of sources not just ones that reinforce the ideas they already have

I cant believe this rumor is still alive... havent you heard the Howard STern interview yet... this is where all the BS comes from.
LISTENNNN!

Dowload:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=E1IA0L6G

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=E1IA0L6G

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=E1IA0L6G

i'm going to see the fugees in paris next month, i'll ask lauryn how she feels about "ms. hill" and white people. all jokes aside though, dude up there was saying that he sees people only as individuals and not racist at all, i can't see that though. i mean, he may not be overtly racist, but it's invisible racism that permeates throughout america, and often goes unrecognized. just because you ain't a white supremacist doesn't mean you are free from assumptions and cultural prejudices that you may not even be aware of. for a good explanation of invisible racism, check out derald wing sue.

if you've never listened to dead prez before, you should listen to "they schools" and then learn about the function of ideological state apparatus.. check out marx

Geez. Y'all putting words in my mouth. I read the lyrics thinking Kweli made the statement about The Isis Papers and then wrote a line asking if it was a good choice to bring that up in light of RUMORS she was racist towards whites.

I was merely asking for someone to give me a better explanation than that. Sorry, if I didn't read the lyrics okpDan's way. I'm sure even his self-righteous ass has misinterpreted an artist's lyrics before.

right?


"i take spit over ramo's shit" -50 cent

i love this song.


"i take spit over ramo's shit" -50 cent

which post is a joke? mine ain't-- anyway interpret the lyrics any way you want

Whites do come from Blacks....

The parts about Guns etc is ill. Damn i need that book

I thought Talib said that Lauryn's Mother came in to buy those books....

That's what he said in the line about giving birth to a new sound. Donda is Kanye's mother.

www.myspace.com/hdottt

i dont think the 'should i be sayin this wen the mic is on'? line is in reference to the reading part, i think its a general comment about the whole song - the fact that a rapper is actually devoting a whole song to giving props to another artist who he admitedly admires - rather than spening the whole track dissin someone.

Soularson you're dumb and I plan to write a song about it for you to misinterpet.

I was at the love odssey tour in CT. and after brown skin lady Kweli looked at a bunch of white kids singing along, turned around, and said 'Ain't The Devil Happy'- Jeru the Damaja (c); thought that was interesting.

What's Talib got to say?

Oh god, you have no idea how that makes me feel. As a white Hip Hop fan, I want to go out and support all my favorites (i'm going to Kweli's show this friday) yet I don't know if they want me there. I can't help that i listen to Hip Hop, it chose me, I didn't choose it. Hip Hop is not a trend or a fling for me, and I hate the people who look at it like that. There are too many backpackers...Then again it must suck for Kweli making all these pro-black songs when most of his audience is white...that'll fuck up ya head. It's a shame that blacks are the minority at Hip Hop concerts, is Kweli mad at me? I'm torn. Rambling on and on...

I know how you feel.....Common broke my heart but I wait to hear from the man who could be president....he speaks honestly but I am not going to guess or find comfortable meaning with his words, he must say more on this...what's the colour of love then.....I am so tired of all this....God bless London....X