"Let the truth be told from young souls that become old, From days spent in the jungle, where must one go...To find it, time is real, we can't rewind it, Out of everybody I met, who told the truth? Time did, We find kids speak it cause it's naturally in us...But the false profit by tellin us we born sinners, Venders of hate, got me battlin my own mind state, At a divine rate, I ain't in this just to rhyme great, See the truth in the thighs of a stripper, the eyes of my nigga...If it's only one, then why should it differ...So constantly I seek it...Wonderin why I gotta drink a six pack to speak it, Took a picture of the truth and tried to develop it, Had proof, it was only recognized by the intelligent, Took the negative and positive, cuz niggas got to live, Said I got to get more than I'm given, Cuz truth'll never be heard in religion, After searchin the world, on the inside what was hidden, It was the truth"<P><BR>Directed towards Common: I heard this song on the Pharohe CD and really enjoyed it, also enjoyed the train of thought on this verse because it made me think. But this morning i showed this verse to a very religious (Christian) uncle of mine who responded to it in a shocking way and I quote "who wrote theese demonic words?"<P>At first i was like.... oh he's talkin about the "truth could never be found in religion" part but that part he understood. It was the "false profit by tellin us we born sinners" part that he really took offense to.<P>I argued that i dont always agree with Common's opinons and statements, but i apreciate him as a great thinker and artist.<P>My uncle stated that "you not listen to and admire this man"<P><BR>Quez<BR><a href="http://www.sheldon.bored.org" target="_blank">http://www.sheldon.bored.org<;/a><P>"The truth is...my crew is...the smoothest spitters of saliva juices like The Roots is, More Organic than acoustics"

I was once told by my grandfather that i should "NEVER misquote anyone"<P>Somebody should have told me to use that "Preview" button too... (i will this time)<P>He said "you should not listen to and admire this man" (sorry to those i have hurt by this <img src="http://www.okayplayer.com/dcforum/Images/sad.gif">)<P><BR>Quez<P><a href="http://www.sheldon.bored.org" target="_blank">http://www.sheldon.bored.org<;/a><BR>"Who you lovin? Who you wanna be huggin?" --- Lil' Kim<P><BR>

i agree. common is not only homophobic, atheist and racist (according to other posts), he is also downright evil. i always suspected as much, but now we've got the proof! common is the devil incarnate or maybe, just maybe, he's "the lord of the flies" himself...<P>anyway, your friend is a fool on this one. tell him to listen to something without introspection, the questioning of one's surroundings, spiritual growth and intellectual enlightment. something less "demonic".<P><P><BR>"A&R's had me feeling like Moss in the draft" -- Jay-Z

My "friend" is my uncle, a Morehouse (famouse historic Black College) graduate, a very spiritially grounded person (his father/my grandther being a pastor), a highly ranked Army officer, and a holder of a degree in Pyscology...<P>If this post is going to generate a bunch of immature and ignorant posts such as yours... i'd rather it be taken down.<P>Common is just a man (tho a very talented one), do not "hold his dick in CD collections" i dont think he'd want you to.<P><BR>This subject applys only to the mature...<BR>Quez... Love is Love<P><BR>Sheldon Mar"Quez" Rankin<BR><a href="http://www.sheldon.bored.org" target="_blank">http://www.sheldon.bored.org<;/a><P>"The truth is...my crew is the smoothest spitters of saliva juices like The Roots is, More Organic than acoustics" ---- Talib Kweli<BR>

>My "friend" is my uncle, a Morehouse <BR>>(famouse historic Black College) graduate, a <BR>>very spiritially grounded person (his father/my <BR>>grandther being a pastor), a highly <BR>>ranked Army officer, and a holder <BR>>of a degree in Pyscology... <P>the fact your uncle went to college and is related to a pastor does not make him any less off-base in describing the verse you quoted as "demonic". you wanted us to tell you what we think about that statement -- i let you know. when you put his words up for debate, don't expect other people to hold his opinion in the same lofty esteem that you do.<P>>If this post is going to generate <BR>>a bunch of immature and ignorant <BR>>posts such as yours... i'd rather <BR>>it be taken down.<P>honestly, i only replied to your original post to clown it for being so ludicrious. after all the nonsense people have said about the man you thought that calling him something as ridiculous as "demonic" could be a serious topic of debate?<BR> <BR>>Common is just a man (tho a <BR>>very talented one), do not "hold <BR>>his dick in CD collections" i <BR>>dont think he'd want you to. <P>if you take me for the type to sweat another man, you're sadly mistaken, son. <P><P>"A&R's had me feeling like Moss in the draft" -- Jay-Z

I'm done with you, obviously you didnt properly read my post, i have not called common demonic and my uncle doesnt even listen to common, or know where the quote came from. He just read the words...<P>"Common Demonic?" is the name of the post as humor and because it is a direct quote from my uncle... you need to grow up kid...i dont find your bull amusing at all, dont waste my time<P><BR>Sheldon Mar"Quez" Rankin<BR><a href="http://www.sheldon.bored.org" target="_blank">http://www.sheldon.bored.org<;/a><P>"The truth is...my crew is the smoothest spitters of saliva juices like The Roots is, More Organic than acoustics" ---- Talib Kweli<BR>

Yo Quez,<P>About the verse in question, I think Com was coming from a historical perspective in that the "false prophets", the leaders of the Catholic and Anglican Churches at the given time, condoned slavery saying that it was in order to save our souls. Being that West Africans were not Christians and the doctrine of "being born a sinner", they were able to pull it off. Regardless of the fact that once in slavery religious conversion was not a priority.<P>Your Uncle prolly used the wrong adjective when describing his feelings towards Com's verse.<P><P><BR>Mister Grump<P>"If you possess, the ability to open someone's eyes, move masses and expand their world but you refuse to, then you have forsaken your gift from The Most High."<BR>---Pharoahe Monch<BR>

Let me intervene please!<BR>Quez - Anything, you post, I mean anything you post, is open for discussion. You can't "police" people's thoughts. Get your panties out the bundle. Okay? No one is trying to hurt "your" feelings or Insult your uncle. You can't take none of this shit personal around these parts. This in its purest form is: entertainment.<P>Guinness - You know some of us are more sensitive than others, so you gotta use a different approach when responding to "sensitive" skin folks. Mkay? (No, I'm not telling you what to do, just suggesting)<P>Quez, baby, sweetie, I'm a minister's child. I love my father more than anything, but, but, but, he wasn't Jesus, thus, he wasn't perfect. He said alot of things to me, in essence that were totally biased and based upon HIS opinion of what Christianity to be. He went to Columbia University School of Divinity, but that doesn't mean that he didn't enforce HIS opinions and beliefs on me. Someone being educated doesn't make everything they say a fact. A fact is a hypothesis tested and shown true. Basically, everything we say, Common says, and your uncle says, that isn't scientifically proven, is an opinion. O-P-I-N-I-O-N!!!!! And as we know, opinions are like assholes, everybody got one!! So chill out and roll with the punches.<P>"I'm not only the Unclefucker Club President, I'm also a client" - #1 Unclefucker<P>"I am not a criminal" - Richard Nixon<P>" I did not kill Tupac, I don't know who did" - Suge Knight<P>"I did not have sexual relations with that woman" - Bill Clinton<P>"I do not own, nor did I possess a gun that night" - Puff Mommy<P>"I am not a racist" - John Rocker<P>"I love black people" - Jesse Helms<P>

Ok i know you meant well by that, but i have not taken anything personal, i just have a low tolerance for someone who would type something like "Jesus Freaks" and call someone a fool.<P>I dont mind anyones opinions... and i have not even to this point given my own opinon on the verse at hand... my comment was directed towards common. There is so much behind a lot of his metaphors and similies that you would almost have to know him to see exactly what he's trying to say most of the time. I would rather have his take on the response to the verse than some immature kid who calls himself "Guiness"<P>Also, i have a low tolerance for those who dont respect and are ignorant to religion. You dont have to believe or follow or even acknowledge religion, but going about making comments like "Jesus Freaks" will always put you on my bad side<P><BR>With that said, Fire do you have any comments on the verse?<P>Sheldon Mar"Quez" Rankin<BR><a href="http://www.sheldon.bored.org" target="_blank">http://www.sheldon.bored.org<;/a><P>"The truth is...my crew is the smoothest spitters of saliva juices like The Roots is, More Organic than acoustics" ---- Talib Kweli<BR>

>my comment <BR>>was directed towards common. <P>my mistake. i had no idea the sole intention of your post was to notify common that your college-educated uncle thinks he's "demonic". i didn't meant to interrupt.<P>>I would rather have <BR>>his take on the response to <BR>>the verse than some immature kid <BR>>who calls himself "Guiness" <P>if you don't want comments, don't post on a message board. have your uncle write common some hate-mail.<P>>Also, i have a low tolerance for <BR>>those who dont respect and are <BR>>ignorant to religion. <P>when was the last time religion and tolerance went hand-in-hand?<P><P>"when i was twelve i went to hell for snuffing jesus" -- nasty nas

"You know half the time it is" ---- Black Thought<P>Sheldon Mar"Quez" Rankin<BR><a href="http://www.sheldon.bored.org" target="_blank">http://www.sheldon.bored.org<;/a><P>"The truth is...my crew is the smoothest spitters of saliva juices like The Roots is, More Organic than acoustics" ---- Talib Kweli<BR>

...But the false profit by <BR>>tellin us we born sinners, Venders <BR>>of hate, got me battlin my <BR>>own mind state, At a divine <BR>>rate, <BR>I can't speak for Common, but I can try to interpret this in my own way....If you look at the history of racism in America, you will find that most white hate groups propaganda teaches that black people are born wicked. That is why they think that they are superior to us. Get it? Got it? Good. (I pray Common comes to answer your question himself, cause I can only tell you what I get out of his statements)<P><BR>I ain't in this just <BR>>to rhyme great, See the truth <BR>>in the thighs of a stripper, <BR>>the eyes of my nigga...If it's <BR>>only one, then why should it <BR>>differ...So constantly I seek it.<BR>Every person has their own set of "truths" and what they deem as truth. I was a philosophy major and I took a whole semester on "truth" and what it means to different thinkers. So I won't delve into what "truth" could possibly mean to him, you, your uncle or anyone else for that matter.<P>..Wonderin why <BR>>I gotta drink a six pack <BR>>to speak it, Took a picture <BR>>of the truth and tried to <BR>>develop it, Had proof, it was <BR>>only recognized by the intelligent, Took <BR>>the negative and positive, cuz niggas <BR>>got to live,<BR>The truth could be found in a stripper, a drug dealer, a banker or a preacher. It depends on where you're "coming from".<P> Said I got <BR>>to get more than I'm given, <BR>>Cuz truth'll never be heard in <BR>>religion, After searchin the world, on <BR>>the inside what was hidden, It <BR>>was the truth"<BR>Organized religion and religious beliefs are two different things. Organized religion is the business of religious beliefs. I'm a Christian, but I have serious issues with "the established church" You have to also remember, that the Bible we read today has been "tampered" with.<BR> <BR>"I'm not only the Unclefucker Club President, I'm also a client" - #1 Unclefucker<P>"I am not a criminal" - Richard Nixon<P>" I did not kill Tupac, I don't know who did" - Suge Knight<P>"I did not have sexual relations with that woman" - Bill Clinton<P>"I do not own, nor did I possess a gun that night" - Puff Mommy<P>"I am not a racist" - John Rocker<P>"I love black people" - Jesse Helms<P>

Thats basically the vibe i was gettin from the verse in total. You said it, and i thought it a was some good ish. It just made me go damn!! when my uncle said demonic.. i'm like who? Common?<P>Eitherway you look at it, that particular part of the verse in question "We find kids speak it cause its naturally in us, the false profit/phophet (which ever he really means, probably a play on words) by tellin us we're born sinners" would be an attack on someone who has great faith in thier religion. Cause if you put it in context, he is saying that those who believe we are born sinners are false. Thats what my interpretation is... is he right or wrong? What do you think?<P>Sheldon Mar"Quez" Rankin<BR><a href="http://www.sheldon.bored.org" target="_blank">http://www.sheldon.bored.org<;/a><P>"The truth is...my crew is the smoothest spitters of saliva juices like The Roots is, More Organic than acoustics" ---- Talib Kweli<BR>

racists calling black people and any one else that isn't white, a natural born sinner? I think they are absolutely wrong! I think sinning is "learned" behavior. But then we have to get into exactly what "sinning" is, and you know that thread will have about one million responses, so......<P>"I'm not only the Unclefucker Club President, I'm also a client" - #1 Unclefucker<P>"I'm lamping, I'm cold cold lamping" - Flava Flav<P>"You can't tell me it ain't right, when you love someone"- Frankie Beverly and Maze<P>"I feel so insecure and yet I never felt so sure" - Teena Marie

but i dont look that deep into that line cause its put right in context by Common... "We find kids speak it cause its naturally in us, false profit/prophet by tellin us we're born sinners"<P>So i cannot assume he's speaking of Whites prophecy on blacks cause he was very general in defining who "us" is. I take "us" to mean people, not just black people. I dont see where you can get black people from "kids"<P><BR>Sheldon Mar"Quez" Rankin<BR><a href="http://www.sheldon.bored.org" target="_blank">http://www.sheldon.bored.org<;/a><P>"oh lawd Quez is here, okayplayer will never be the same" ---- some wise man<P>"The truth is, my crew is, the smoothest spitters of saliva juices like The Roots is, More Organic than acoustics" ---- Talib Kweli<BR>

Being a child of hip hop. That is what hip hop culture is to me. Inherently knowing what certain terms mean. Even without having them defined to you. But I don't think Common meant kids being all black people, just those that speak the truth, conciously or subconciously. <P>Quez, are you on a search for the meaning of life or something? (I don't mean this sarcastically either) Like are you in college? Are you in high school? Are you a grown man married w/kids? I just want to get an idea of where you are in your life, cause you seem to be looking for the deeper meaning of exact points. Usually a "paragraph, verse, etc.", has a main idea or subject that can't be broken down into separate sections. That is the foundation of poetry and thus rap.<P>"I'm not only the Unclefucker Club President, I'm also a client" - #1 Unclefucker<P>"I am not a criminal" - Richard Nixon<P>" I did not kill Tupac, I don't know who did" - Suge Knight<P>"I did not have sexual relations with that woman" - Bill Clinton<P>"I do not own, nor did I possess a gun that night" - Puff Mommy<P>"I am not a racist" - John Rocker<P>"I love black people" - Jesse Helms<BR>

<BR>>Quez, are you on a search for <BR>>the meaning of life or something? <BR>> (I don't mean this sarcastically <BR>>either)<P>Wow!!! haha, if you want my personal info you can hit my page, link below. I dont understand why you'd equate my look into a statement by Common to be "a search for the meaning of life" I am not taking this as seriously as you may think. The whole issue to me was the fact that this verse MAY come off to those who are "religious" as atheistic. My uncle does not listen to Common, so his view of those words he read were completely objective... unlike the words of us okayplayers. Thats where i'm coming from<P><BR>Sheldon Mar"Quez" Rankin<BR><a href="http://www.sheldon.bored.org" target="_blank">http://www.sheldon.bored.org<;/a><P>"oh lawd Quez is here, okayplayer will never be the same" ---- some wise man<P>"The truth is, my crew is, the smoothest spitters of saliva juices like The Roots is, More Organic than acoustics" ---- Talib Kweli<BR>

I've reread Common's words and I have come to the conclusion that.....he is THE Anti-Christ. That's right he's the devil's spawn and we're all being hoodwinked into thinking that he's holy when actually he's leading us into the fiery pits of HELL! That's right you, I and every Okayplayer are DOOMED So get your fire-retardant footed pajamas ready cause we're going to Hades for a permanent vacation! Can't wait to see the River Styx! <P>Tell your "objective" uncle that the practice of religion and belief are two different things. We have been trained to believe that the doctrine of the church is the way to live and one must practice religion, religiously in order to be "holy" But practicing religion is going to make any human "question" what they are told. When in actuality the way to new life is through the word of God. And living in the way HE (God only, not the "church") wants us to. So you have to make a personal choice to believe what people tell you or what you read. I don't think Common is questioning God, I think he's questioning certain organizations.<P>"You took my hearbeat from me, should have just stabbed it for me" - Kelis<P>"You want my love and you can't deny, you know it's true but you try to hide" - Earth, Wind & Me<BR>(do you think Maurice was stalking this woman?)<P>"I love black people, but I hate niggas" - Chris Rock<P>"Mommy, what's a nigger" - Some little white kid

"If you put out negativity, you will get negativity back. If you put out positivity, you will get that back"---<a href="http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html" target="_blank">http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html<;/a><P>Got it? Good.<BR>Let's discuss...<P>(and remember no one is going to agree with everything you say. As Fire said, everything is open for discussion and no one means to dis anyone on purpose...if you're not comfortable with what someone will say, then don't include it in your post. Sorry, but I hate seeing senseless back and forth hostility while MISSING THE TRUE POINT OF THE POST. Also if you want Com to answer or address a comment personally, try an email, don't post it...just my one and only opinon. Wanna talk more about it, hit me on the waves (e-mail))<P>Uno<BR>Improv!?<P>"You thought the song was over! You thought the song was over! Aghh! We tricked you! We tricked you! Hahahaaa"---Bobbito at the end of MF Doom's "Rhymes Like Dimes"

Don't know Common can't speak for him-but just a thought, the sommon depiction of Jesus is that of a white man blond hairblue eyed etc. I think Common's just expanding on one of Black Thought's lines "Resurrect the blond haired blue eyed/and put him through another confession" So anyway I can't stand organized religion personally and have to agree with good ol' Karl Marx, on the matter. But that's my opinion.<P><P>Brrrr...it's mighty cold up here, good thing we have stuff...

Stupid misqouter. Crucify him!<P><a href="http://altern.org/mkultra" target="_blank">http://altern.org/mkultra<;/a><P>Blame Canada!<P>Brrrr...it's mighty cold up here, good thing we have stuff...

I'll be real with you. To refer to Common as "demonic" due to a difference in ideals and opinions (ESPECIALLY WHEN DEALING WITH RELIGION) is ignorance. Ignorance meaning not knowing any better. That was an ignorant and small minded comment your uncle made. I've lived my life in the presence of people who are willing to condemn another's rationale just because it doesn't fit into their own personal spiritual ideology. Facts is facts.<P>Now, from one Morehouse man to another, I appreciate your uncle being educated and spiritually grounded. But I also believe in calling a spade a spade. It is humorous that he called Com "demonic"....but at the same time it is a sad display of how far we must go as a unit to understand one another. Take offense if you will...I am doing my best to express my feelings.<P>The Infamous DVSJ<P><BR>

>That was an ignorant and <BR>>small minded comment your uncle made. <P>Why is his response to "HIS" on perception of these words "ignorant and small minded"????<P>WTF?!?!<P>I think you are ingnorant and small minded for not being able to put yourself in his shoes<P>Damn you cats are about to give me a hernia...DAMN!!<P>Sheldon Mar"Quez" Rankin<BR><a href="http://www.sheldon.bored.org" target="_blank">http://www.sheldon.bored.org<;/a><P>"oh lawd Quez is here, okayplayer will never be the same" ---- some wise man<P>"The truth is, my crew is, the smoothest spitters of saliva juices like The Roots is, More Organic than acoustics" ---- Talib Kweli<BR>

Because I take the word "demonic" very seriously. Before I would ever call someone that...I would need to know a whole lot about them. I would have to understand the perspective that person is coming from. Your uncle made an uninformed judgement not based upon the artists original merits...but upon his own worldview. That...to me...is ignorance of Common's point. But you seem to have been sticking up for your uncle regardless of whether or not the poster has had a valid point. So....maybe it suffices to say that we agree to disagree? Fair enough?<P>Send me the bill for the hernia.<P>The Infamous DVSJ<BR>

Don't personalize what I say. I said that your uncle's comment was "ignorant and small minded"...that does not make him an ignorant and small minded individual. That just means that he may have a little to learn about "putting himself in someone else's shoes" before branding/labeling them. <P>However...when you responded...you called ME "ignorant and small minded" for voicing my opinion. But in all honesty...the only thing you disagree with is my opinion on this issue. Choose your words carefully, my brother. And don't be so DAMN DEFENSIVE!! LMAO. (It's all love, though)<P>The Infamous DVSJ<P>

You know what, if you just reread the quote... you will see that his response (demonic) was to the words, not to the man who wrote the words. Maybe that will help you people understand where i'm coming from.<P>Is throwing out insults regarding another man's opinion just a cop-out for you cats that dont have any insight on the topic? I mean, you dont even look intellegent going out like that....<P>Sheldon Mar"Quez" Rankin<BR><a href="http://www.sheldon.bored.org" target="_blank">http://www.sheldon.bored.org<;/a><P>"oh lawd Quez is here, okayplayer will never be the same" ---- some wise man<P>"The truth is, my crew is, the smoothest spitters of saliva juices like The Roots is, More Organic than acoustics" ---- Talib Kweli<BR>

"Put him through another CRUCIFICTION"<P>What are you cats hearing?<P>Sheldon Mar"Quez" Rankin<BR><a href="http://www.sheldon.bored.org" target="_blank">http://www.sheldon.bored.org<;/a><P>"oh lawd Quez is here, okayplayer will never be the same" ---- some wise man<P>"The truth is, my crew is, the smoothest spitters of saliva juices like The Roots is, More Organic than acoustics" ---- Talib Kweli<BR>

Well, this is an interesting discussion. So, I think I will jump in.<P>I think that anyone who listens to Commons music can tell that he is a spiritual brother; we can see that his spirituality affects his music. He has said in the past that he is a student of Christianity, and Islam; I venture to think he is also a student of other world religions--he is very aware of his-story from the Black man's perspective.<P>Any search for truth means that you sometimes have to question everything that you have been told, or believe to be true. You have to examine the uses of religion in the history of the world. (ie, what the result of the preachings of the so-called false profits have been. An obvious example of this is the historical use of Christianity to justify slavery, one of the first contradictions that is explored when someone starts questioning Christianity)<P>Common has obviously done some spiritual homework, and in his search for truth, has found some contradictions.<P>I know that Common grew up in a Christian church. If that is the case, those contradictions are the first things he had to question in his search for truth. The whole idea of being born a sinner that needed to be redeemed is a fundamental truth that can keep you in spiritual chains if you dont go deeper to understand what that means and how that affects how you act on an everyday basis. I think Common refers to that in his verse.<P>Some people's response to being a "Born sinner" is that they end up not taking responsibility for your own actions/sins, etc because you figure a) what the heck Im a sinner and b)i can sin all i want because Jesus died for me and he'll forgive me anyway. I think that Common may be speaking to the fact that those responses are not positive, or productive.<P>At the risk of this being a philosophical discussion, I will say that it was not until I started questioning what I was told about spirituality and started asking myself why, that my spirituality became more personal. Having a Christian background as well, that means that sometimes the search for truth uncovers thoughts and ideas contradictory to the teachings of the Christian tradition--ideas that may make my elders who are Christian tell me that those ideas are "Demonic" (as used in the title to this post), or "not of God." But that has not stopped me for trying to figure out "The truth"<P>Bottom line, is you figure it out as you go along. Common shares his journey in his rhymes. If he is searching for truth, I venture to guess that he is exploring the contradictions and sharing that in his rhymes. That does not make him demonic. It also doesnt make him a poster child for the Christian church. It makes him like the rest of us--trying to figure it out. I like to think he is a student of the truth. He just has a bigger platform to share his findings. So, if you are faced with a command not to "admire and listen to this man", maybe come back by saying you are not going to follow his words blindly, but you are going to admire that he is searching for the truth and encouraging a wide audience to do the same.<P>peace,<BR>computer love

I'm glad someone finally came with something real to say intead of all this garbage. More on it later, i'm at work....<P>Big up Clove, i got the email too<P>Sheldon Mar"Quez" Rankin<BR><a href="http://www.sheldon.bored.org" target="_blank">http://www.sheldon.bored.org<;/a><P>"oh lawd Quez is here, okayplayer will never be the same" ---- some wise man<P>"The truth is, my crew is, the smoothest spitters of saliva juices like The Roots is, More Organic than acoustics" ---- Talib Kweli<BR>

first lesson of listening to commmon's music-listen, think, then listen again. more than likely you missed something the first time. he entertains, but he also educates, right?<P>i started thinking of a whole new meaning when i realized that com could be speaking of prophets and/or profits. especially when he comes next talking about "vendors of hate".<P>as a matter of fact, the more i look at it, i like thinking that false is a noun and profit the verb (ie the false are profiting by telling us we are sinners) rather than false being the adj and prophet being the noun. This takes this comment out of just the realm of spirituality/ Christianity and who is "demonic", and takes us into a whole nother discussion. There alot of "false" who profit, eh? Anyone who focuses on the "inherent" evil of our communities for their own gain, right? Shouldnt be too hard to think of who that is. (anyone from false prophets to the media to politicians to people building prisons to house more brown and black folks...etc). This train of thought would complement the general theme of searching for truth that i think the rest of the rhyme supports...<P>once again, common challenges us with the complexity of his rhymes. That's why I love his music, how bout the rest of y'all? <P>i would love if common would grace this thread with his presence so he could explain/enlighten.<P>Hey, quez, if your uncle heard that train of thought, think he would still not want you to admire coms lyrical skills? The alternate meaning might support your argument to appreciate com as an artist and an intelligent man.<P><BR>peace,<BR>computer love

Well if you look at the original post, the version my uncle saw said "false profit" not "False Prophet" so he responded to that notion as in "false (the noun being church)" profit by telling "us (as in the human race)" we're born sinners.<P>That is the way he read it and percieved it...now with that perception of it, can anyof you see why he would have responded with the word "demonic"???<P>Probably, but only the ones who dont are gonna speak up anyway... :-/<P><BR>Sheldon Mar"Quez" Rankin<BR><a href="http://www.sheldon.bored.org" target="_blank">http://www.sheldon.bored.org<;/a><P>"oh lawd Quez is here, okayplayer will never be the same" ---- some wise man<P>"The truth is, my crew is, the smoothest spitters of saliva juices like The Roots is, More Organic than acoustics" ---- Talib Kweli<BR>

well quez, you say false as in noun being church. but my point was that it doesnt only have to be the church, but many other false (not sure if you got that or not). again, not able to read commons mind, but it does broaden the discussion, right.<P>even if it was the false as in noun being church, isnt it possible even for a Christian to see that there are plenty of people in the church who profit by telling us we are born sinners (whether or not we actually are?) Assuming your uncle is a righteous man, he might take offense to the fact that there are people in the church (those who truly live the basic tenets of the Christian church)who are not hypocrites who say that we are born sinners and are justified and who live righteous lives--and common seems to be taking issue with them also.<P>sure its a double meaning ( or triple or quadruple). not sure unless we hear from the man himself.<P>but its been fun chatting with you.<P>peace,<BR>computer love

Man, Quez, I think you're just arguing to argue and it's weird cuz everyone is arguong on there own term. Most of the people in the world aren't christians, and therefore don't believe jesus the savior. So are all these people's beliefs demonic? Is that what religion says? anyone who doesn't believe your religion is evil. I agree with you when you said (or someone else might have said) that church profitted by telling us we are sinners. Brother, it's all fact, so I agree with common. And you know what, words are the maniseftation of thoughts and thoughts represent who a person is. Therefore if someone says some ignorant comments, then that's a good sign that the person is ignorant himself. Either that or a hypocrite or a liar for not meaning/believing in his own words. On the same tip, don't call people or their opinions ignorant. Not to say you are, but what if you are the ignorant one? I could be saying a bunch of garbage right now, but you can't call me ignorant becase you don't know me and I could be right, who knows?<P>As for Com, man the brother is right and even if he's not, he believes in what he says so it's kosher.<P>Love Health and Wisdom<BR>Sohrab<BR>Basement Crew

>Man, Quez, I think you're just arguing <BR>>to argue.<P>Really?<BR> <BR>>don't call <BR>>people or their opinions ignorant. <BR>>Not to say you are, but <BR>>what if you are the ignorant <BR>>one? I could be saying a <BR>>bunch of garbage right now, but <BR>>you can't call me ignorant becase <BR>>you don't know me and I <BR>>could be right, who knows? <P>Exactly what i was trying to tell this people in regards to my uncle's response. I couldnt have put it better.<P>But check it, since thats the impression i'm giving, i'll leave this discussion alone.<P>And the peeps who sent me emails sayin "i know where you're comin from"... where are your posts at?<P><BR>Sheldon Mar"Quez" Rankin<BR><a href="http://www.sheldon.bored.org" target="_blank">http://www.sheldon.bored.org<;/a><P>"oh lawd Quez is here, okayplayer will never be the same" ---- some wise man<P>"The truth is, my crew is, the smoothest spitters of saliva juices like The Roots is, More Organic than acoustics" ---- Talib Kweli<BR>

Peace Quez, it's Common up in this boy. I just wanted to respond back to your post on what your uncle said. I'm a strong believer in God. I was raised as a christian, and I been going to church since I can remember. In fact, I was in church on New Years Eve! But this does not negate my belief in spiritual growth, and understanding the true meaning of God and religion.<P>When I spoke about people saying that we're born sinners, that was a statement I made to nullify the belief that we are born sinners. I believe that if its planted in your mind that you are a sinner and was born that way, then you will act in that way. I believe that if I think, speak, and know that God is within me, then I will act accordingly. I encourage all to seek God and find their path to God, not knocking anyone's beliefs.<P>Peace, I explained myself enough.<P>Charlie.<P><BR>Common.

Thanks for the reply, and believe me, you dont ever have to explain yourself, its just that when dealin with lyrics that are so personal...and full of complex metaphors and wordplay, its hard to actully know where one is coming from... thus the discussion.<P>Show and Prove...<P><BR>Sheldon Mar"Quez" Rankin<BR><a href="http://www.sheldon.bored.org" target="_blank">http://www.sheldon.bored.org<;/a><P>"oh lawd Quez is here, okayplayer will never be the same" ---- some wise man<P>"The truth is, my crew is, the smoothest spitters of saliva juices like The Roots is, More Organic than acoustics" ---- Talib Kweli<BR>

When I heard this song for the first time, it literally gave me chills. Com's verse so accurately sums up most of my feelings on spirituality and religion. Today in my ethics class the topic just happened to be religion. You know I was quotin this shit. I give my girl a quote everynight, and about 90 percent of them are from Common. He has a good take or dope one liner for just about any subject matter in life. He can rip any mc a new one, but at the same time, express his opinion in an intelligent and creative way on important topics. I'm not sure if I have a point here, but all you Com fans know what I'm talking about. Triple meanings and shit, making you rewind like 50 times. I fuckin love you man! I better be careful or Com's gonna have his own stalker of the month page. Late...<P>ME<P>"Who am I or they to say to whom you pray ain't right/That's who got you doin right and got you this far/ Whether you say "in Jesus name" or Hum do Allah/ Long as you know it's a bein' that's supreme to you/ You let that show towards others in the things you do."<P>-The artist formerly known as Sense

In fact I have said it before you must deal with the God in you!!!<BR>Common you got it!<img src="http://www.okayplayer.com/dcforum/Images/wink.gif"><P><P><BR>Smutometrist Nebtastic<P>N.O.R.E<BR>(nebbie on the run eatin)<P>T.O.P.A Head of Security<P><BR>" E El Isum Shil El Eloh El Rahmun, Alazi Izu El Rahummul!"<BR> <BR>"Helimonsters/bandicoots/banshees at the club- BFNH(big fuckin hak!)<P>"in your over 21 id world,i'm 26 year old girl"-Nou<P><P><BR>

"...I guess I laugh to keep from crying" Q-tip<P>"we will be here forever. understand?! FOREVER!" ?uest<P>ice

Okaypeeps,<P>I don't mean to resurrect the dead thread, but I read it on the news section while the boards were down. Some of the questions that were discussed in this post never were really answered, so here is what I've been taught about the priciple statement in this thread: "False profits telling us we are born sinners."<P>The question here is interpreting what/who Common is referring to by the "false profits" statement that tells us we are born sinners. The simple answer would be ALL Christian ministers, because being born into sin is a Christian belief. That assumption is the reason why your uncle didn't like the statement. To my knowledge, Christianity is the only religion that assums sin first, then absolves that sin through practice of the religion. That leads us to the next question, why is it necessary for all Christians to be sinners at birth. Well, in order to place Jesus on a different level of humanity than everyone else who has ever been born in the history of the planet, He had to be the only person born without sin. This assumption goes along with Him being the "only son" of God, literally. This gets us to the purpose of Christianity, to bring gentiles to the God of Moses and all the prophets of the old testament. At that time in history( and still), the origial Hebrews felt that they were the chosen ones, and others (gentiles) looked at them like a people with a rich history and a strong sense of identity. This is not saying that the view of them was always positive or everybody was envious of them. Some of those people (gentiles) wanted to become Jewish, and be associated with their history, but they didn't want to do the things necessary to become a Jew. I'm not positive about all of the requirements, but I know circumcision is one, and for obvious reasons, that prevented coversion for a lot of people. Jesus preached Jewish (and other religious) teaching to gentiles and anybody else who would listen in order to bring those people to His God.<P>Okay, I've talked enough, but I think I addressed the relevant issues to me. <P>Nope, I'm not a preacher. Yep, I could be wrong to you, but this is MY TRUTH, and I sticking with it.<P>Finally, EVERYBODY IS IGNORANT TO SOMETHING. When Guiness called your uncle a idiot, I thought he was out of line, but within his rights. <P>Peace<P>Pseudonym-less Wendell

I'm feelin that, thanks for the perspective<BR>Definately on point, no doubt<P>So you're not preacher, what are you?<P>Sheldon Mar"Quez" Rankin<BR><a href="http://www.sheldon.bored.org" target="_blank">http://www.sheldon.bored.org<;/a><P>"oh lawd Quez is here, okayplayer will never be the same" ---- some wise man<P>"The truth is, my crew is, the smoothest spitters of saliva juices like The Roots is, More Organic than acoustics" ---- Talib Kweli<BR>

Just a man who found it necessary to make peace with his God.<P>Pseudonym-less Wendell

"Religion might be selling it...." - KRS One<P>I believe in Jesus Christ. But I don't believe in denominations. When you divide belief in GOD with Baptist, A.M.E., Catholic, etc., then claim to be worshiping the same God, it makes me feel very uncomfortable. It's kinda of like a clique to me. I believe that is one of the main reasons many black people have given up on Christianity. I haven't, but I can't blame those who have for getting led down this road. Going to churches where you're judged on your dress code or "my church is better than yours" is something I'm familiar with. But I can't deny when the spirit of God moves through me and for that I cannot ignore God. <BR>I also don't believe you can be a born sinner. Are you saying that as a newborn, I come out of the womb going against God's word? A word I have yet to be challenged and educated on? All a child has at birth, to me, is life and spirit. They can only misuse that through free will during life in this world. This ("born sinner") was something I was forced to be believe as a child. You know how alot of your parents "made" you go to church on Sunday. But did you really understand it in your heart? I GREW to understand the power of God only through experience. So to answer the question, do I feel Common is demonic? I say NO, he just calls it as he sees it. As a Christian, I see the same thing too. I may not agree with all the things he says, but in his verse on Pharoah Monch's "The Truth" I been feeling like that for a long time.<BR>Representing 87th street to the fullest,<P>Drack Muse...the next off Stony Island