Okayplayers--<P>Tuesday was a great day for me, and I figured it would be a great day for everyone else that picked up D'Angelo's 'VooDoo'. I bought it, took the red line train home, dubbed it on MD (my portable cd player is no more :()and jammed away. At first listen, I was concerned becuase I felt some of the tracks sounded alike. But I didn't sweat it, cause it was my first time through the album, and I knew I'd find another track I liked.<P>After having 'VooDoo' in my CD player for the longest, and a copy of it on MD in my other portable player, I grew to really REALLY like it. I was hooked, I mean, 'The Root' was my first jam, along with 'Untitled'. 'Send It On' as Quest said is a jam, and I agree. So is 'Spanish Joint' and 'Greatdayinthemorning' (and I didn't forget the second song attached on the end, I just don't know what it's called). Anyway, I really love this album, and I figured others would too.<P>I was wrong. I talked to my friend Tiff, and she said she had 'VooDoo' in her hand at the music store, but put it back (strike 1) because she heard a bootleg copy of it over a month ago (strike 2), and that people had told her that the LP sounds repetitive (STRIKE 3. YOU'RE OUT!!!). Here's my thing, I don't think mainstream R&B/Soul music fans are going to dig this album like they thought they would. I think some of these people have been brainwashed with all the releases that have been coming out that are just...cookie cutter jams. They sound good, but the impact of the song lasts just long enough for the group/label to sell the CD. The radio gives it mad play, and that's all the public hears. Well, when a release like 'VooDoo' arrives, and people are used to hearing Destiny's Child and TLC, it doesn't click. They don't understand the feeling of music. All they want is a hit, something they can dance to. You have to realize that society is dumb. If you only offer them crap, eventually that's all they'll listen to. So much so that they won't know real music from weak music.<P>I'm basically saying that I'm tired of trying to convince brainwashed people not to sleep on 'VooDoo'. Some people are only going through the album one time, and then dismissing it entirely. This man has been out of the game for the longest, comes back and delivers a superb album. Now all those people who have been crying 'D'Angelo, I love your music', are sittin' at home complaining. It frustrates me, but I'll move on. If I'm the only one that appreciates this true soul music, so be it. <P><BR>--leroy b.<BR>________________________________________<BR>MOST RECENT CD'S BOUGHT: Guy "III", Jagged Edge "J.E. Heartbreak", D'Angelo "VooDoo"

How tired I am really depends on who I'm arguing with. If it's just another member of the music-consuming-massess, I really can't get to upset. I might sigh sadly, or think about how we've got to change how people listen to music, but I don't expect them to listen to an album that deeply. If it's another music-educated person who's saying something bad about the album, I've found that most of these people actually don't have that much to say. They're just uncomfortable with it (in other words, not ready), so it's not like I could sit up all night breaking the album apart to prove my point. And some classic albums just get dissed like that (like Paul's Boutique or Critical Beatdown), It'll take some people years to catch up. Also, when it comes to hip-hop I'm used to having to defend myself, cause my tastes are really varied, so half of the heads hate me half the time. (That used to really frustrating.) And Voodoo is not always an easy album to like, especially compared to Brown Sugar. That said, it's also so good I've had a hard time listening to any other new album for the last six days, cause they all sound so weak next to D's record. So fuck what you think, it's about what you know.<P>"...one finger is in the air/ and one is in the chamber/ y'all ask me what the fuck i'm doing/ i'm releasing anger..." - Andre, OutKast, 1994

i was talkin to some peeps the other night and somehow i was getting yelled at cuz i liked "amplified..." and so we started a discussion on "which album by so and so would you keep if you could only keep one..." so we went through The Roots, Tribe, PE, Maxwell, and then we got to D'Angelo...... a couple people said they'd rather have Brown Sugar... mainly because "Higher" ain't on Voodoo... lol But I had to keep bringing up that we've had 4 years to digest Brown Sugar, and only 2 weeks (yeah, it's only been out a week, but i played this for everyone as soon as i got it) to get into Voodoo.<P>--me--<P><a href="http://www.thejawn.com/brainchild" target="_blank">http://www.thejawn.com/brainchild<;/a><BR><a href="http://www.thejawn.com" target="_blank">http://www.thejawn.com<;/a>

voodoo is over, there's nothing else we can do but take it to the stage.<P>while on the road we will start work on his next record that he wants out yesterday. entitled:<BR>James River. he's already wrote 4 songs and this shit is as night and day t voodoo as brown sugar was.<P>we actualy might do 2 records (ala "use your illusion 1 and 2)<P><P><P><P><P><BR>THE SOULQUARIANS<BR>chewy (quest).....jan<BR>luke (d)........feb <BR>lando (jaydee)......feb<BR>cp30 (james poyser).....jan<BR>r2d2 (jazzy jeff)......jan<BR>hans (chaos)........jan<BR>anakin (lil mike)......feb<P>honorary members:<BR>kelo- soulacorn.......jan<BR>common- soulcies......march<BR>erykah- soulcies......feb<BR>

my non cd player havin ass is just bumpin the cassette in the car betwen photo assignments (i really don't want to get out the car half the time- soundud interuptus right?)... but after years of tryin to get people to listen to the roots, and een possibly comprehend the concept of a CAREER in music (as opposed to a single to single existence) i'm not suprised people are bitchin about voodoo... but i'm exhausted by it all... i couldn't understabd Bitches Brew at firt listen, and i still don't like Tutu, but that didn't make me dis Miles for some easy listening Kenny G type shit! <P>it just kills me that some people don't want to "grow" with an artist or group o artists, expectig inovation and change and other types of unexpected shit... geez...<P>as far as the vibe/source situation, at risk of biting a hand that has fed me, i wish they would push the smae envelopes they did when i was still exited about working for them...<P>quick voodoo question- the sister in the photo (on the vinyl sleeve) on D's right- isn't she from philly? cause if she is (and this is just me being silly and connecting dots) she was on the back cover of DYW- the short natural haired woman with the white shirt and back to the camera- i just remember her so wel cause it took HOURS of work to keep that shirt from being so "blown out" that the print wouldn't look right...<P>anyway congrats to you again mr ?uest daddy! <P>love the rim shots.... love em...<P>PoZi (;=

umm... i'm not sure if that was a reply to my post but umm.... I did choose Voodoo over BrownSugar. that night, mainly because it's only been out for a week, as opposed to four years... and i don't think i could imagine having to live without "Africa" and "Playa Playa" now...<P>--me--<P><a href="http://www.thejawn.com/brainchild" target="_blank">http://www.thejawn.com/brainchild<;/a><BR><a href="http://www.thejawn.com" target="_blank">http://www.thejawn.com<;/a>

because after the time expired on "africa", i was left feeling all empty and sh*t...when you hear music in that capacity, you just want to keep hearing more and more of it...i'm trying my best to play the disc sparingly (only about 10-15 times last week) because i know i'm gonna wear it out by the summer...it's a daily battle though...i'm already hyped for remixes, live joints, instrumentals, cuts that didn't make it or whatever...keep it coming y'all!!!

Brotha, don't even sweat the non-believers. I haven't heard straight, smooth lyrics since Prince old stuff. All I hear now is lick them up, stick them hard, and flip them over all in 15 minutes!!! Sadly, nobody knows real R&B music anymore. Like D'Angelo quoted, "they haven't got the last one straight". It definitely will take them awhile to feel this one! Not everyone can hear a man's soul. Do you feel me?! The brotha is truly blessed with the gift of song, SEND IT ON PLEASE!!!

i feel the same way about the jazzyfatnastees album. i guess ignorance is bliss. but i wil still keep trying to get people to check them though

Will it be done by March ? I like the Guns and Roses idea (the I and II thing). But I've given up on people saying this album isn't worth jack. I actually knew which of my friends wouldn't get it(sadly to say it was like two handful of friends that didn't get it). But so what !!!! I really don't care what the naysayers have to say, I love the album and that's what counts. I will be bumping Voodoo forever !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get the picture ?

Man u should stop tryin' to get people to dig real music . as a musican , i am sick of the scene in the states .everything is samp

Angie Stone...her funk..like none other...her style....well if style were measured in seconds...her joint would damn near be an hour. <P>VooDoo...respect it. What can one say about this abyss of creativity. It's been a while since anyone let one out like this one. Yep, I experienced it, I say "experienced it", because this isn't something one listens to...to understand it you gotta become part of this, jank. Respect it. Because the bubble gum shhhh that's out now aint kickin it. The "music" that is out now...well...I don't think music is the name for it. Prince...he's definately reaching his higher level, and that's all I have to say about that..... Tee out

Angie CD is mad tight!!!! Its hard to find a CD where you like ALL the songs. No skippin on that one!!

word bond her shit is tight. i didn't really know what to expect from her, and i basically bought the lp just so i could listen to "no more rain" whenever i wanted to...but i was blessed from the turnout. i'm feelin you. the marvin gaye remake of "trobled man" and that ali shaheed joint "bone to pick" were programed to go back and forth for 2 days strait on my stereo!!!<P>p.E.a.C.E,<BR>krisAnu<P>"i drop heavy in spots you scared to put your weight on, theres only so much ice you can skate on." -Common Sense<P>"aint nuthin worse than a wack emcee, unfortunately, thats all that surrounds me." <BR>-Jeru<P>"fuck thought, it leads to naught, simply stated it leads to you tryin' to figure me out." -Saul Williams<BR>

I really like song she wrote with D'angelo and "Love Junkie". They're definitely musical soul mates, if not nothing else.

One thing that all of us intelligent folx know, is our family, friends, foes, and what have you don't know what's real and what's fake in terms of music. It's a shame to see such misguided souls. And what's worse is to hear them utter those words: "I dont like it." That's what most said when they saw and heard the Left & Right song and video. Many of us wonder why they are sleeping on Voodoo. One answer: They have been without meaningful music for so long, that they'll automatically settle for the run-of-the mill type shhhh. We've been listening, for the past few years or so, to machine-produced sounds. Add a couple of over-moussed white boys and you got over-hyped, over-publicized results. People trying to sound hip, all in all, trying to be down. I had almost lost faith in music until i started listening to the Roots(still loving You Got Me, and their most current cd). The icing on the cake was when I heard that D'Angelo was coming out with this newest masterpiece. Now that it's here, I cant go without listening to it. Track # 7 is what i wake up to <img src="http://www.okayplayer.com/dcforum/Images/happy.gif">. Some dont realize that YES, people do still use real live instruments. And YES, people really do still feed your souls with their lyrics. That's what Voodoo does for me. People tend to ride the crowded fake bandwagon until they fall off, and realize that the real bandwagon has much more room and freedom to it. Hopefully they'll get the picture before it's too late. D, keep doin what you doin. Brown Sugar was the coctail, Voodoo the apetizer, now i'm waiting for the main meal, then the dessert and so on and so on. It's gettin better step by step. THANK YOU for feeding my soul.

ME(for the 50th time on jan 25):GO BUY D'ANGELO<P>HER:(funny look) D'angelo? naw I didn't like his first cd, it kinda sucked to me.<P>ME:(funnier look)Oh really? Well what you listen to then...what was the last CD you brought?<P>HER:ummmmm lemme think.................SISQUO<P>ME:................I gotta go (ZOOM)<P>ACTUAL CONVERSATION...I think I'll put this in my sig.<P><P>I gave my best, but I guess my best wasn't good enough.<BR>James Ingram-Just once<P><BR>I gave you earth lessons, I came to YOU as a blessing. You didn't do the knowledge that the god was manifesting.<BR>Wildflower-Ghostface Killer<P><BR>The sun envied her radiance, the stars envied the way her eyes sparkled, the angels envied her grace and beauty. God himself even marveled at the divine creature he created when he saw her.<BR>Me

..but u know u want that Thong song...hahahaha<P>grav<P><P>Gravity508: Ummm...I don't like that done to me...<BR>EQUIPTsmith: yeah...i think after i was done w/u you would like it a LOT more<BR>Gravity508: oooh..really now<BR>EQUIPTsmith: cuz a lot of doods don't know what they're doing and plus they're just doing it as a favor they're not into it<BR>EQUIPTsmith: but me...i'm a pink taco connasseur<P><P>"Im not a special person. Im just a regular person who does special things"-Sarah Vaughn<P>Me:I really didnt need that parttime job<BR>Him: oh, cause your going to work for me at night, right?<BR>Me: Ummm..do u have benefits?<BR>Him: All my hoes have all of their teeth. That's benefits<P>

Brotha, don't even sweat the non-believers. I haven't heard straight, smooth lyrics since Prince old stuff. All we hear now is lick them up, stick them up, and flip them all in 15 minutes!! Sadly, nobody knows real R&B anymore. Like D'angelo said they haven't got the last one straight. It definitely will take them awhile to feel this one!!! Not everyone can hear a man's soul. Do you feel me?!

I must admit, I was one of those mainstreem R&B lovers who was ready for another D'Angelo Brown Sugar spinoff. Although, after listening to.... I mean....feeling the CD, I'm lovin' it! D'Angelo's sound is obviously for music lovers, not music listeners.

i just had an arguement several weeks ago with my ex girl and she wasnt too happy with it. she was saying it all sounded the same and was boring blah blah blah. i dont really respect her taste in music anyways and this was a harsh reminder of it. i thought i was doing a good job, cause i hiped her to the roots, blackstar, tribe etc etc. but she just got her pass revoked.

D'Angelo's "Voodoo" is not worth waiting five years for. It is good, and yes, better than most of the crap that is out in the mass R&B market (which isn't really saying much, all things considered). But to wait FIVE years for a CD of several tracks that aren't quite that creatively expansive, and sound awfully similar in form and execution to his previous project, just shows what a horrible mess the state of the music industry is in. Keep in mind that in the 70s, the geniuses of the day, Stevie and Marvin (and Prince in the late 70s to modern day) could pump out at least an album a year, and most of the ish was BRILLIANT. Does it really take a true creative genius five whole years to come up with some good ish, and then when it drops, for it to be not THAT far removed from its predecessor? <P>The time spent waiting was used for D to gloss magazine covers, and have publicity articles heralding D as the "Second Coming", when all we wanted was a "second album"...eff the G.D. hype!!! Real music doesn't require all that hype artificial release dates to build a big fan base....if he is a real musical genius, then it'll find an audience! <P>Now he faces the problem that the expectations on the album were along the lines of a "Songs In The Key" meets "A Kind of Blue" cum "Sign Of The Times"....and it doesn't meet that hype. Although I like the project, it surely doesn't break any new musical ground like expected. In a five year wait, we could have gotten three to five albums of similar quality from him. <P>I don't feel ripped off, but I do feel let down.<P>

<BR>Well, I think you have a point about the five year thing. There's a great story about Miles Davis and John Coltraine where Coltraine complains to Miles that he can never find the right time to finish his solo, that he can always think of 75 different ways of continuing that all seem essential. So Coltraine asks Miles how to finish a solo. Miles comes back with hands-down the greatest quote of the twentieth century: "Just take the fucking horn out of your mouth." Funny story, but what it really gets at is the problems perfectionists in art create for themselves. Great musicians hear music in their heads and seek to translate it into music. When you're a perfectionist you always face limitations, because you can never get the sounds you play to match that ideal sound in your head. So you obsess, you curse yourself, doubt creeps in, the whole works.<P>I imagine D went through something like that. Here he is, appointed by so many (not self-appointed) to be the next Messiah in black music--tell me that ain't pressure? Tell me he's not tripping, trying to make this one something special? Not only is he trying to realize the sounds in his head, EVERYONE ELSE is counting on him to make the music that is in THEIR OWN HEADS. What he needed was someone to just say, "Let it go. Take the horn out of your mouth and put the mic down."<P>Or maybe not. See, I think Voodoo is the strangest, weirdest, trippiest, most fucked-up record I've heard in ages, and I love it. the first time I put it on, I was overwhelmed. Quest is right--this ain't a casual album. After I listened to it straight through I wanted to play it, oh, about 50 more times, but I couldn't. For one thing, I needed to digest it. For another, I was exhausted. <P>It's hard effin work to listen to Voodoo. This is not "The White Album." It's the sound of a guy working one groove for an entire album, trying to exhaust the possibilies of a certain sound. He keeps going back to the well, digging deeper, pulling more and more up, throwing in that weird noise on track 2 and those melodies on track 4 and everything else, but he's not doing it to make something operatic. It's the opposite--think about how sparse the album sounds. He's trying to identify something primal, something raw and nasty and beautiful, something that speaks to why we all fell in love with music in the first place. Basically, he's trying to define the funk in its most elemental state. Not even Prince, with all his early minimalist ish, did that as tirelessly as Voodoo does. The last guy to work a groove this hard, to explore the true possibilities of rhythm, was James Brown. <P>Which starts to answer where I stand on the influence question ;) Seriously, if you think D's overrated as an innovator, where does D steal his sound from? Prince, sure, but Prince could never do a song that sounds as organic as half of Voodoo's cuts. When I listen to Voodoo, I hear JB, P-Funk, Prince, so many others, but he's putting the pieces together in ways I haven't heard yet. It's so funky, but so dark. It's so fun, but underneath it's so damn serious.<P>All of what I'm saying is, I like the album. Don't jusge it yet. Anyone who tells you they know what to make of it yet is full of shit. This si one of those albums that'll take five years for people to even BEGIN to understand. In 50 years people'll study Voodoo like people today study Billie Holiday or Sun Ra. The only thing I can figure ou right now is that I can't stop playing it.<P><BR>Bryan<P>All I wanna do is disco machine gun!!<P>"I believe in one love."<BR> ---Massive Attack

<P>>Keep in mind that in the <BR>>70s, the geniuses of the day, <BR>>Stevie and Marvin (and Prince in <BR>>the late 70s to modern day) <BR>>could pump out at least an <BR>>album a year, and most of <BR>>the ish was BRILLIANT. <P>not true at all. oh ye of limited knowledge. you picked the 2 figures that were notorious for making record label presidents pull their hair out.<P>stevie: SONGS IN THE... was held back for 2 and a half years. Berry was crying his eyes out. no one at motown was hittin like that $$$$. and when it did come out. the village voice panned it. rolling stone panned it. cream panned it. (yes, songs in the key of life) then money waits another 3 years and releases JOURNEY THROUGH THE SECRECT LIFE OF PLANTS he took an ass whippin for this one. now 3 years ain't shit. but then? shit was a lifetime. and when HOTTER THAN JULY came out (steve's true follow up to SONGS 4 YEARS MIND YOU).....critics havn't been impressed since innervisons. BUT OF COURSE THE PEOPLE SPOKE THROUGH TIME.<P>marvin: everyone knows that marvin was notorius for writers block (thus the mostly instrumental TROUBLE MAN, 2 LIVE RECORDS IN 2 YEARS, and all those instrumental passes on I WANT YOU.) not to mention david ritz himself (marvin biographer) says that all of HERE MY DEAR is freestyle. (sheeit just try reciting the words to "when did you stop loving me?" without fail. 6 minutes of madness!!!!!) <P>and prince?- PURPLE RAIN is his moment in the sun. no one gave a fuck about him til purple rain ("dirty mind is a classic!!!!" whatever, y'all know y'all discovered that shit in 85 after the movie came out.!) and then he churned out one mediocre record after another................(post sign that is)<P>so my point is....no one pleases everybody. personally these records made me into the person who i am today. but please don't go around blind thinkin that THE MASTERS went through the 70's unscathed just because the people ignored naysayers and made these records classics.<P>Does it <BR>>really take a true creative genius <BR>>five whole years to come up <BR>>with some good ish, and then <BR>>when it drops, for it to <BR>>be not THAT far removed from <BR>>its predecessor? <P>well you said marvin and steve were briliant. and you could easily mitch match innervisons, fullilingness, and songs. hands down.<P>now if you are saying that voodoo "sounds" like brown sugar.....well then i have to hear what kind of stereo system you got. (mind you i said <BR>"sounds" not "is better")i sure hear a difference. ain't no "smooth" on voodoo.<P>>The time spent waiting was used for <BR>>D to gloss magazine covers, and <BR>>have publicity articles heralding D as <BR>>the "Second Coming", when all we <BR>>wanted was a "second album"...eff the <BR>>G.D. hype!!! <P>well i now know who between you and me is in the industry and who is not.<P>voodoo was finished in august of 99. we spent 6 months waiting for lauryn to make up her mind....as for magazines...well....no one says "imma take a photo then i'll do "send it on" backrounds." sorry press starts once album is done. there are some exceptions however. one can take a photo and record at the same time.<P><P><BR>Real music doesn't require <BR>>all that hype artificial release dates <BR>>to build a big fan base....if <BR>>he is a real musical genius, <BR>>then it'll find an audience!<P>well. you sound disgruntled. hey that's you. as for me (or us) we never said anything about "king of soul" or we are the best. (however i wanna know.....what are the reqiurements of king in your book? i don't see the difference in "sweet little girl" or "poor abbey walsh" or "chicken grease" or "moviestar".........<P>who are you comparing this boy to? brian mcknight? ginuwine? case?......black thought? who money? <BR> <BR>>Now he faces the problem that the <BR>>expectations on the album were along <BR>>the lines of a "Songs In <BR>>The Key" meets "A Kind of <BR>>Blue" cum "Sign Of The Times"....and <BR>>it doesn't meet that hype. Although <BR>>I like the project, it surely <BR>>doesn't break any new musical ground <BR>>like expected. In a five <BR>>year wait, we could have gotten <BR>>three to five albums of similar <BR>>quality from him. <BR>>I don't feel ripped off, but I <BR>>do feel let down. <P><BR>well save the receipt and i hope your savior comes save you from the soul sky.....<BR>.....i don't know about y'all imma funk til then wit my boy<BR>THE SOULQUARIANS<BR>chewy (quest).....jan<BR>luke (d)........feb <BR>lando (jaydee)......feb<BR>cp30 (james poyser).....jan<BR>r2d2 (jazzy jeff)......jan<BR>hans (chaos)........jan<BR>anakin (lil mike)......feb<P>honorary members:<BR>kelo- soulacorn.......jan<BR>common- soulcies......march<BR>erykah- soulcies......feb<BR>

Come on NOW!!! I hadn't read this thread all day or else I would've hit folks off with Stevie's and Mrvin's meandering ways.<P>Anyone that knows anything about black music knows that Stevie and Marvin were two of the worst folks at Motown for taking forever to deliver their albums. Stevie held Berry up for an unprecedented amount of loot (at that time) and had Berry and all of Motown shitting in their pants waiting on Songs.<P>Marvin was a dope fiend and could never do shit on time. Motown babied him and they got records from him when he felt like it. Man "Hear, My Dear" is a brilliant work of rage, love, self-pity, and desperation all rolled in one and there was not ONE critic, not ONE, that had anything goods to say about that album. In fact it was only in print for liek a year and then it was rerelased in the mid 90's to celebrate Marvin's anniversary and everybody came out of the woodwork talking about how great an album it is.<P>Voodoo is not Innervisions or Trouble Man. And????????? I mean go and check Stevie's second album. Go check Marvin's second album. No masterpieces there! For D to be at this stage so early on in his career is something special. We can all look back in hindsight at those classic albums, but I believe that Voodoo has advanced present day music (although that might not be saying too much) because it allows the artist to explore the song and the music. It's not a little formula, it's not a how many producer's can I get on my album? As a previous player stated, you have an album where D explores a groove and flips every way from Sunday. That's in the tradition of JB and P Funk and Sly even. That's beautiful. I mean One Mo Gin starts for a minute and a half without a lyric being sung. You can't do that today wwhat in the hell would Angie MArtinez say during all the time leading toi the first verse?<P>Now this album isn't for everyone. I tried to explain that to folks months ago, the same way I warned some folks not to buy Me'shell's Bitter because it asks that the listener work and explore.<P>5 years is a long fuckin' time to wait, too long in my opinion. I can't argue that. But he came back strong and compared to all these acts that put out three albums in a year and a half and put out Double LP after Double LP, I'd rather wait and let an artist find hsi/her way<P>“What are the rewards of those who tend to their God-given talents as they would have the creator tend to their spirits and daily lives? What happens when the artist becomes the conjur man? These are questions that seem to be null and void in the face of all the glitter and glamour that has dominated most successful balck artistry of recent years. We seem to be more preoccupied with cultivating our bank accounts than cultivating our crafts. Nowadays, I find my peers more inspired by an artist's business tactics than their artistry. In fact, we do not seem to mind an artistry that suffers in the face of seemingly good business. More artists yearn to own their own labels, etc. than they seem to yearn to master their crafts. No, we cannot allow any more Bessie Smiths to occur, but once an artist owns their own publishing the question then becomes, what are you going to publish?”<P>The VooDoo Manifesto – Saul Williams

Here goes my reply:<P>>stevie: SONGS IN THE... was held back <BR>>for 2 and a half years. <P>You just made my original point. 2 and 1/2 years doesn't equal 5 years. <P>Berry was crying his eyes out. <BR>>no one at motown was hittin <BR>>like that $$$$. and when it <BR>>did come out. the village voice <BR>>panned it. rolling stone panned it. <BR>>cream panned it. (yes, songs in <BR>>the key of life) then money <BR>>waits another 3 years and releases <BR>>JOURNEY THROUGH THE SECRECT LIFE OF <BR>>PLANTS he took an ass whippin <BR>>for this one. now 3 years <BR>>ain't shit. but then? shit was <BR>>a lifetime. and when HOTTER THAN <BR>>JULY came out (steve's true follow <BR>>up to SONGS 4 YEARS MIND <BR>>YOU).....critics havn't been impressed since innervisons. <BR>>BUT OF COURSE THE PEOPLE SPOKE <BR>>THROUGH TIME. <P>Yep...and many albums that were considered to be brilliant IMMEDIATELY UPON RELEASE, after time and further inspection, were rethought years or even decades later not to have much musical, creative or social impact. I'm always suspicious of the works of art that seem to immediately resonate with such large audiences and critical bases, although I can respect their rights to have opinions about musical tastes.<P>>marvin: everyone knows that marvin was notorius <BR>>for writers block (thus the mostly <BR>>instrumental TROUBLE MAN, 2 LIVE RECORDS <BR>>IN 2 YEARS, and all those <BR>>instrumental passes on I WANT YOU.) <BR>>not to mention david ritz himself <BR>>(marvin biographer) says that all of <BR>>HERE MY DEAR is freestyle. (sheeit <BR>>just try reciting the words to <BR>>"when did you stop loving me?" <BR>>without fail. 6 minutes of madness!!!!!) <BR>><BR>You're preaching to the choir here..and again, making my point. "Here, My Dear" is arguably his greatest collective piece of work. It commercially flopped, and within another year or so, he was able to put out another album. No artificial release dates, no hyping, no bullshit. It really shouldn't take a musician five years to come out with excellent product. Ask Me'shell, who within the five years between D's two, put out three great ones of her own. <P>>and prince?- PURPLE RAIN is his moment <BR>>in the sun. no one gave <BR>>a fuck about him til purple <BR>>rain ("dirty mind is a classic!!!!" <P>I might be dating myself here, but peeps WERE diggin' Prince way before "Purple Rain", critics and fans alike...and especially white music critics, who often gave him more love than Black press. He had just not had a commercial opus until the two-year mad rush of "1999" / followed by "Rain". <P>>whatever, y'all know y'all discovered that <BR>>shit in 85 after the movie <BR>>came out.!) and then he churned <BR>>out one mediocre record after another................(post <BR>>sign that is).<P>Prince's worst ish is better than 80% of the ish on the radio for the past 10 years. I'd rather Prince to keep putting out records like he wants to than to stall for release of one album for a half a decade. But hey, I guess that's just me. <P>>so my point is....no one pleases everybody. <BR>>personally these records made me into <BR>>the person who i am today. <BR>>but please don't go around blind <BR>>thinkin that THE MASTERS went through <BR>>the 70's unscathed just because the <BR>>people ignored naysayers and made these <BR>>records classics. <P>I didn't mean to imply that the artists from a previous generation were unscathed. I did, however, state that they consistently and regularly gave us excellent releases, and it didn't take them five years to do so (in most cases, around a year).<BR> <P>>well you said marvin and steve were <BR>>briliant. and you could easily mitch <BR>>match innervisons, fullilingness, and songs. hands <BR>>down. <P>True..much of which can be attributed to an artist's indistinguishable "style" or personal distinction. But again, we didn't have to wait five years to listen to whatever progession there was (or wasn't). <P>>well i now know who between you <BR>>and me is in the industry <BR>>and who is not. <BR>>voodoo was finished in august of 99. <BR>>we spent 6 months waiting for <BR>>lauryn to make up her mind....as <BR>>for magazines...well....no one says "imma take <BR>>a photo then i'll do "send <BR>>it on" backrounds." sorry press starts <BR>>once album is done. there are <BR>>some exceptions however. one can take <BR>>a photo and record at the <BR>>same time. <P>Sorry, my man..I really have to take exception with you here. I'm very much "in the industry", for better or for worse. I was actually in the room when Don Ienner (of Columbia) spoke to the heads of Cheeba regarding the Lauryn / D duet. This was almost exactly a year ago today, and the album had been competed WAY before that. I had copies of about 8 of the tracks on "Voodoo" for the past 18 months, and they're in the same versions that there were commercially released! The only thing not completed was the duet, which I can vouch definintely was not on the album because (as you say) L Boogie was "was waiting to make up her mind", but actually because of licensing issues with her label Columbia. Simply put, D did the "Nothing Really Matters" on her joint for free because they love and respect each other so much, but when it came time for L to return the favor on D'a album for gratis, Columbia wasn't having it! (And you can quote me on that). So don't put this on L....the decision NOT to release "Voodoo" on its SEVERAL scheduled release dates over the past two years was made LONG BEFORE the duet was even in the works. I'm not gonna say D or L is to blame for that. And since you're in the industry, you'll recall that press on D's COMPLETED album started back in 1997 (!!!) when he appeared shirtless on the cover of XXL proclaimed as "The Second Coming". The album was all but pressed up back then. Again, these were behind-the-scenes decisions made by execs to optimize sales on a potential superstar. My original point is that with release strategies like this, everyone loses, especially music lovers.<BR>><BR>><BR>>Real music doesn't require <BR>>>all that hype artificial release dates <BR>>>to build a big fan base....if <BR>>>he is a real musical genius, <BR>>>then it'll find an audience!<P>>well. you sound disgruntled. hey that's you. <BR>>as for me (or us) we <BR>>never said anything about "king of <BR>>soul" or we are the best. <BR>>(however i wanna know.....what are the <BR>>reqiurements of king in your book? <P>I never crowned anyone "King of Soul", and never used that term in my posting. That's a road paved with hyperbole that I choose not to travel. <P>>who are you comparing this boy to? brian mcknight? ginuwine? case?......black thought? who money? <P>I really think you missed the point of my original post.<BR>:~(<P>>>Now he faces the problem that the <BR>>>expectations on the album were along <BR>>>the lines of a "Songs In <BR>>>The Key" meets "A Kind of <BR>>>Blue" cum "Sign Of The Times"....and <BR>>>it doesn't meet that hype. Although <BR>>>I like the project, it surely <BR>>>doesn't break any new musical ground <BR>>>like expected. In a five <BR>>>year wait, we could have gotten <BR>>>three to five albums of similar <BR>>>quality from him. <BR>>>I don't feel ripped off, but I <BR>>>do feel let down. <P>> well save the receipt and i <BR>>hope your savior comes save you <BR>>from the soul sky..... .....i don't <BR>>know about y'all imma funk til <BR>>then wit my boy <P>I would never return this album. I have over 5,000 albums and haven't returned one yet. I did say it was a good album. I'm sorry that "good" simply isn't enough for you when it comes to "Voodoo". I simply don't see it as "groundbreaking" as hyped. But it IS good music.

>Here goes my reply: <BR>>>stevie: SONGS IN THE... was held back <BR>>>for 2 and a half years. <P>>You just made my original point. 2 <BR>>and 1/2 years doesn't equal 5 <BR>>years. <P>So if Voodoo would have been released in two and a half years, it would be a better record? It would be more worthy? That really seems to be a silly point. Again, they took to damn long to get this record out but the timing does not reflect on whther or not its groundbreaking. If it came out 2 and a half years ago, I'm sure you would still believe that it was merely a good record.<P>>You're preaching to the choir here..and again, >making my point. "Here, My Dear" is arguably his >greatest collective piece of work. It >commercially flopped, and within another year or >so, he was able to put out another album. No >artificial release dates, no hyping, no >bullshit. It really shouldn't take a musician >five years to come out with excellent product. >Ask Me'shell, who within the five years between >D's two, put out three great ones of her own. <P>Again, so great albums should never have artificial media hype. Then Songs is not a great album. Do you know the hype and promotion machine that Berry Gordy put behing this album? Berry Gordy is the King of Hype my friend. I mean Berry was about to lose his shirt waiting on Stevie to produce Songs. Motown's whole fiscal year was based on what Songs would do. Berry hyped and promoted that record like none other. Remember this was back in the days before Soundscan. Gold and Platinum sales were determined not by how many units were bought at the store but by how many units were shipped. Motowon shipped a million units of Songs, that was something unheard of at the time and it was all part of Berry's hype and sales strategy to assure people that Songs was a classic and that Stevie was a genius, so please let's not rewrite history here. Again, if you think Voodoo isn't groundbreaking, you have every right to believe so. But don't change history.<P>>Ask Me'shell, who within the five years between >D's two, put out three great ones of her own. <P>Better point. This album was deemed as an album of the year and a great piece of work the second it dropped, so I guess you have no problem with critics rushing to judge an album as classic in this case. However, what if Maverick would have "artificailly hyped" and promoted Bitter? You know what would've happened? Maybe Me'shell would get some of the recognition she deserves and maybe the album would be somewhere near approaching Gold status. So r u saying great artists shouldn't have their stuff heavily promoted? That makes no sense to me because that would only further destroy the qualty of black music. I do think that Bitter is a greater piece of work en masse then Voodoo for reasons hard to describe succintly but the fact that it wasn't promoted or the fact that Me'shell put it out in a shorter time period has nothing to do with it.<P>>I didn't mean to imply that the <BR>>artists from a previous generation were <BR>>unscathed. I did, however, state that <BR>>they consistently and regularly gave us <BR>>excellent releases, and it didn't take <BR>>them five years to do so <BR>>(in most cases, around a year). <P>I understand the point you are trying to make but I think you're really generalizing and overstating. Some artists were prolific like Aretha who was turning out album after album but she also was used like a mule by Arif Mardin and company, plus she barely wrote any of the songs she recorded and barely played on any of the music (Although Aretha can play her ass off on the piano and her sister had some of the most beautiful background vocal arrangements in the history of black music). Secondly, back then, especially, when there were separate albums released it wasn't necceessarily a different recording process or anything. These artists would just have some of their recording sessions broken up and put out as albums. So it wasn'tlike they were going back every year and a half and saying let's try something else, these albums were just part of what they were already doing and had ben done. The whole JB catalog is reminiscent of this (probable exceptions of Black Caesar soundtrack and the Big Payback) for the most part before, 70's Stevie and Marvin, albums were just a collection of sides. Artists recorded single after single and that's all record companies cared about they weren't really into albums as a piece of work, expecailly in black music. And a lot fo the the work on some of those albums are just ok not classic at all. Hindsight is something else but a lot of these artists you refer to have so much out that they had plenty of classic cuts but not that many of them put out stellar, solid groundbreaking albums. iT's hard to do that when you're churning out singles. <P> Now for Motown artists with the exception of Stevie and Marvin, who we already know took time to put out their stuff, who else was putting out conssitently great material, irregardless of the time it took?<P>“What are the rewards of those who tend to their God-given talents as they would have the creator tend to their spirits and daily lives? What happens when the artist becomes the conjur man? These are questions that seem to be null and void in the face of all the glitter and glamour that has dominated most successful balck artistry of recent years. We seem to be more preoccupied with cultivating our bank accounts than cultivating our crafts. Nowadays, I find my peers more inspired by an artist's business tactics than their artistry. In fact, we do not seem to mind an artistry that suffers in the face of seemingly good business. More artists yearn to own their own labels, etc. than they seem to yearn to master their crafts. No, we cannot allow any more Bessie Smiths to occur, but once an artist owns their own publishing the question then becomes, what are you going to publish?”<P>The VooDoo Manifesto – Saul Williams

>Here goes my reply: <BR>>>stevie: SONGS IN THE... was held back <BR>>>for 2 and a half years. <P>>You just made my original point. 2 <BR>>and 1/2 years doesn't equal 5 <BR>>years. <P>That was NOT your original point. you claimed Stevie and Marvin put out "at least an album a year". Quest proved you wrong with specific examples. At least admit when you made a mistake, it's only right...<P>Peace,<P>Spirit<BR><a href="http://amphibians.iuma.com" target="_blank">http://amphibians.iuma.com<;/a><BR><a href="http://infiniteloop.iuma.com" target="_blank">http://infiniteloop.iuma.com<;/a><BR>DC hip-hop is on the rise...<P>"High grade when I create beats/if I don't get signed/I'ma be the most dope bum that ever walked the streets" - <BR>Aychell (HL, of Khemystery)<P>"If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it's probably a tool of the conspiracy" - unknown

...then you understand that labels control the release dates, not artists, so why are you complaining about how long it took for the release of D's follow-up? you yourself acknowledge that D's album was completed in 97 (what is that, 2 1/2 to 3 years after "Brown Sugar?"). So, take your complaints to Virgin...<P><BR>>I didn't mean to imply that the <BR>>artists from a previous generation were <BR>>unscathed. I did, however, state that <BR>>they consistently and regularly gave us <BR>>excellent releases, and it didn't take <BR>>them five years to do so <BR>>(in most cases, around a year). <P>Label release plans worked differently in the 60's. Radio is completely different now. You're in the industry, you know all of this! D doesn't control when his album is released! All he does is make the music.<P>>And since you're in the industry, you'll recall >that press on D's COMPLETED album started back >in 1997 (!!!) <P>There you go...you say you know D completed his album in far less than the five years it took for it to be released....so where's the beef?<P>>I simply don't see it <BR>>as "groundbreaking" as hyped. But <BR>>it IS good music. <P>I have never seen Quest call it "groundbreaking". When you say "hyped", are you referring to press releases? Retail one sheets? Where are you getting that quote from?<P>Peace,<P>Spirit<BR><a href="http://amphibians.iuma.com" target="_blank">http://amphibians.iuma.com<;/a><BR><a href="http://infiniteloop.iuma.com" target="_blank">http://infiniteloop.iuma.com<;/a><BR>DC hip-hop is on the rise...<P>"High grade when I create beats/if I don't get signed/I'ma be the most dope bum that ever walked the streets" - <BR>Aychell (HL, of Khemystery)<P>"If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it's probably a tool of the conspiracy" - unknown

I have to disagree on that point cause the way I remember it I Wanna Be Your Lover "black" radio play (I recall my grandmother changing the station & talking ish behind the track, God Bless her soul)..so did Controversy & 1999. Little Red Corvette got "white" radio play.<P>My cousins (in NY and Down South) had Prince posters - remember the 1 with the bare chest & the big afro? I distinctly remember talk about how Prince & Foster Sylvers looked alike. And there was this whole thing going on in those Blackbeat/Wordup type magazines about who was the King of R&B, who was cuter - Prince or Michael Jackson. That was back when the popular MJ posters was him with the yellow cardigan and the Thiller cover - around 82. Purple Rain didn't drop til 84!<P>From what I understand (I was definetly too young for Prince concerts but my older cousins weren't) Prince's concert audiences were mostly white but he did have a solid audience & a pretty solid black fan base prior to Purple rain which is the album that made him a "pop" act. They were making the posters & writing the articles because enough people were checking for him.

my mother accused my brother of being gay b/c he had a Prince poster up in his room. Y'all know the one! And, I might be dating myself, but eff it, this was 1982! I'll never forget it! <P>My mother: why he got perm in his head if he ain't gay? and why he gon' take a picture in dem gay drawahs? and.........lord......is that MAKEUP he got on, lord, wait til I TELL yo' daddy!!! And what the hell do he mean, "am I black or am I white/am I a boy am I a girl?" Nigga please......."<P>that's my mama.............

my uncles nearly had a fit...your mother sounds just like mine.<P>Dont feel bad about the age thing..Im old enough to have had a crush on Foster Sylvers...remember Hot Line? <img src="http://www.okayplayer.com/dcforum/Images/happy.gif"><P><BR>

It is not completely D'Angelo's fault that his release date was pushed from October '98 to Jan '00. There are these people call A&R directors and CEOs of record labels that make the final call. Another culprit is called the marketplace, where timing is of an essence (i.e. If you face heavy competition from Brian McKnight ,or Chico DeBarge you might want to lay low until the fanfair lessens and their records are running in the final quarter of their cycles).<BR>Additionally, he had to settle some business problems with his first manager and those things often require contracts to simply run out, or have lawyers agree on settlements which take time. When EMI Records dissolved, it took time to redirect which label from the EMI Group would absorb which artists, also. Virgin's A&R people had to decide when to put D'Angelo back in the studio. Finally, D'Angelo's a human being that deals with issues all of us face in normal life (well, almost), and let's not forget that he's a perfectionist!<P>Regarding the pictures on the covers of magazines, D'Angelo needs to be kept in consumers' minds. The label doesn't want you to think that he dropped off the face of the earth. When you really saw the pictures rolling, was near the time of the album's release- Hello? He has to announce his coming.<P>Finally, the album...I guess you can say that the "BrownSugar Sound" was coined by the organ, high hat, and harmonized vocals. So, did you want him to completely eliminate those three elements for the "Voodoo" record? D'Angelo has a trademark, but I only recall maybe 2-3 songs that have that mix in them, and even then they're different. To be honest, I only felt like three songs the first time I played the album, but with every time that followed, my appreciation for what he was expressing with his voice and the instruments in the song grew. <P><BR>

I ask a girl at work today if she had bought voodoo yet (LOVES untitled). she had not. I ask why. She gave me "that look". I told her if she bought it and didnt love it, I pay her for the cd. This is the third time Ive done this since the cd dropped. I think my loot will continue to be safe.........<P><P><P>Peace and love,<BR>-Ben (iLL)<P><P>"We Love Hip Hop!" -The Cake<P>A man that works with his hands is a laborer; a man who works with his brain is a craftsman; but a man who works with his hands and his brain and his heart is an artist. -Louis Nizer<P>If your bayonet breaks, strike with the stock; if the stock gives way, hit with your fist; if your fist are hurt, bite with your teeth. -M.I. Dragomiroff <P>I can't knock you for not knowing/ But I could for you not wanting to learn/ Nor for asking/ But I could for you not willing to earn/ No I can't, for someone to even havta tell me twice/ So this music is my sacrifice/ So I be dedicated, determinated, and dependable/ To demonstrate directly/ And use the opportunity correctly/ So forget the gold teeth/ Forget the bald head/ forget it sound country/ Just remember what I said... -Atlanta's own Cee-Loo

I have been reading what some of ya'll have been writing and I cannot believe some people you all know are tryin to sleep on this. Anyone with half a mind would know Voodoo is one of the best R&B cds that has been released in a long time. Voodoo has a refreshing sound that isnt like all the other crap you hear on the radio. Besides I assumed people would have known it was not going to sound like Brown Sugar simply by how long it took him to release this one. I am by no means dispointed by Voodoo. I dont think it all sounds the same. The only thing I would have like to have...is a variety of his vocal talents. With songs like Send it on, One Mo Gin, and How does it feel, who needs this other so called R&B out now. I agree with one of the posts I read today, when youre used hearing crap you start to like crap. Fortunately I have stayed true to my taste in music....I just hope people give this cd a chance...listening to it once is just not enough. And my advise to that chick that pick up the cd and put it right back do. GO BACK AND GET IT!!!! Its worth it.

nothing to defend.<P>i make naysayers defend the shit on the radio. nuff said...<P>deejaydub

So I know not of what you speak. <P>But I do get lots of promotional crap from labels, and see those same songs on the charts. And yes, I think 95% of it is crap.<P>But I think we're in a sorry state when your defense to "Voodoo" (an album that took 5 years to release and, in a disguisingly sinister way, was promoted, plotted and hyped as much as an N' Sync release, just to a markedly different crowd)is not "it's a brilliant piece of work", but rather, "at least it's better than the crap you hear on the radio".<P>Again, I like the album. It's good. But sorry, I'm not sycophantically singing the album's praises like every other poster here.

no one asked you to dick ride voodoo.<P>but, "mr sony/columbia" you could water donnie's plants for all i know (what is your position at sony, since you were "in the office"?). well while you were chilling with donnie, i was actually on the phone with D and Lauryn. i was at the studio with d and lauryn. i know the real reason why she declined to do this record. and trust me it was not the label (perhaps they would resist if she at least did it, but she didn't.)<P>and just because BROWN SUGAR came out in 95 dosn't mean it's taken him 5 years to make. that's like you sayin it took 8 years for the black thought solo record to come out. *since his first joint came out in 92.) BS was over in 1996. we finished in 1999. count em 1 2 3? 3 to me! <P>if you feel that way then so be it. but "good" means to me "okay". (yes here is the roasting) you mean to say you can name 5---fuck it 3 artists today who freak backround vocals like "the root". matter of fact who else is freaking anything that sounds like "the root" or "africa"? wait ......aren't i doing what i said i woldn't do? eff that, since you made that statement, why should i stay up til 5am writing out a thesis?<P>you write it! defend it. all that!! not no "where's the melody" or the music sounds the same bullshit. specifics mr industry. i'll start you off:<P>ex: player player. the vocals sound muddy (don't go there cause i'll just say "what about brilliant marvin?" who layered his shit ungodly?<P>or how come you guys didn't use a better texture of keys in "greatdayinnnamorning"? or "africa"sounds muddy" (off which i'll reply THERE'S A ROIT GOIN ON was praised by critics and is reguarded as a masterpiece, and that's muddy as fuck. same goes for "dirty mind".<P>so did roy play an offensive horn chord?<P>wanted charlie hunter to try harder next time?<P>lemme guess drums are boooooooring huh? <P><P>"niggas be like 'oh he changed his style up'.....SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU STILL A DICKRIDER!!!!.....<P>-redman, pick it up, 1996<P><P><P><P><P><BR>THE SOULQUARIANS<BR>chewy (quest).....jan<BR>luke (d)........feb <BR>lando (jaydee)......feb<BR>cp30 (james poyser).....jan<BR>r2d2 (jazzy jeff)......jan<BR>hans (chaos)........jan<BR>anakin (lil mike)......feb<P>honorary members:<BR>kelo- soulacorn.......jan<BR>common- soulcies......march<BR>erykah- soulcies......feb<BR>

>no one asked you to dick ride <BR>>voodoo. <BR>>but, "mr sony/columbia" you could water donnie's <BR>>plants for all i know (what <BR>>is your position at sony, since <BR>>you were "in the office"?). well <BR>>while you were chilling with donnie, <BR>>i was actually on the phone <BR>>with D and Lauryn. i was <BR>>at the studio with d and <BR>>lauryn. i know the real reason <BR>>why she declined to do this <BR>>record. and trust me it was <BR>>not the label (perhaps they would <BR>>resist if she at least did <BR>>it, but she didn't.) <P>I don't work at Sony or Columbia. And I definitely don't water plants. But if you'd like to ask Dom or Stan about the Lauryn track, they might give you a different version than your story.<P>This is a fan-driven site. I didn't really expect to see much dissension about the project here. <P>Again, I think it's a good album. Sorry that's not good enough for you.

THE SOULQUARIANS<BR>chewy (quest).....jan<BR>luke (d)........feb <BR>lando (jaydee)......feb<BR>cp30 (james poyser).....jan<BR>r2d2 (jazzy jeff)......jan<BR>hans (chaos)........jan<BR>anakin (lil mike)......feb<P>honorary members:<BR>kelo- soulacorn.......jan<BR>common- soulcies......march<BR>erykah- soulcies......feb<BR>

What happen with the Lauryn Hill duet? If you can answer that?

...who are you?<P>Yella, you didn't address any of quest's issues. you didn't even answer his question regarding your identity. now, if he took 3 years to record Voodoo, I think it's only polite that you take 3 minutes to type out your name and explain exactly what you do in the industry, since you mentioned that you are in the field. Quest has explained that it took 3 years to make "Voodoo". You say Columbia says one thing and you were in the room...Quest knows Lauryn. Now, that to me sounds like conflicting stories and the only thing that gives weight to your side is if we know who you are, then we can decide whether you are in a position of knowledge. Because basically, you're saying that Quest is wrong and you're almost calling the man a liar. He says it went down one way, you say it went down another way. There's only one way it actually happened.<P>Last industry person I remember on here was the brother who produced "Mic Check" for aceyalone (good track, by the way). He did the courtesy of actually revealing who he is. Could you do the same? thanks.<P>Peace,<P>Spirit<BR><a href="http://amphibians.iuma.com" target="_blank">http://amphibians.iuma.com<;/a><BR><a href="http://infiniteloop.iuma.com" target="_blank">http://infiniteloop.iuma.com<;/a><BR>DC hip-hop is on the rise...<P>"High grade when I create beats/if I don't get signed/I'ma be the most dope bum that ever walked the streets" - <BR>Aychell (HL, of Khemystery)<P>"If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it's probably a tool of the conspiracy" - unknown

>...who are you? <BR>>Yella, you didn't address any of quest's <BR>>issues. you didn't even answer his <BR>>question regarding your identity. now, if <BR>>he took 3 years to record <BR>>Voodoo, I think it's only polite <BR>>that you take 3 minutes to <BR>>type out your name and explain <BR>>exactly what you do in the <BR>>industry, since you mentioned that you <BR>>are in the field. Quest has <BR>>explained that it took 3 years <BR>>to make "Voodoo". You say Columbia <BR>>says one thing and you were <BR>>in the room...Quest knows Lauryn. Now, <BR>>that to me sounds like conflicting <BR>>stories and the only thing that <BR>>gives weight to your side is <BR>>if we know who you are, <BR>>then we can decide whether you <BR>>are in a position of knowledge. <P>For whose benefit does that serve? I can appreciate your introduction to me, and you have every right to do so, but I enjoy having the luxury of posting in boards with some level of anonymity. It's up to others to make decisions for themselves what constitutes fact or fiction, or whose opinions they can appreciate. "Proving" such things in what amounts to a fan-based message board, IMHO, serves very little purpose.<P>>Because basically, you're saying that Quest <BR>>is wrong and you're almost calling <BR>>the man a liar. He says <BR>>it went down one way, you <BR>>say it went down another way. <BR>>There's only one way it actually <BR>>happened. <P>No I never called him wrong and I never called him a liar. Actually HE responded to MY post. I'm sure he heard what he did, and I know I heard what I did. That's enough for me, and if not's enough for you, I'm sorry.<P>>Last industry person I remember on here <BR>>was the brother who produced "Mic <BR>>Check" for aceyalone (good track, by <BR>>the way). He did the courtesy <BR>>of actually revealing who he is. <BR>>Could you do the same? thanks. <P>I'm sure there are far more "industry people" (whatever that term means) that post in here than you realize. I know of at least three..that's how I learned about this place. I enjoy being able to post with some degree of anonymity, and whether you can respect that or not, that's your issue. <P>I will disclose that there are many different positions in the "industry", and depending on where you come from, your perspective on a matter could be markedly different from the next guy. For example, a musician in a studio would have a far different viewpoint on a matter then, say, a business and legal affairs attorney trying to close a deal or an A&R administrator trying to enforce studio or release timelines. My point of view comes from one of the latter.<P>Now, a quick comment (and this is the last time I'm going to post this here). I like "Voodoo", but I'm not doing cartwheels about it. But art is meant to be appreciated, criticized, dissected, adored, hated, whatever. If an artist cannot take constructive criticism about a project without responding in the vein of "you don't know what you are talking about" or "defend your statements", then perhaps that musician should just make music in a vaccum, in his garage and never release it to the general public. It's clear that a musician who worked very closely on a project has a vested interest in seeing it do well and in hearing it praised, and might be a little too close to his baby to hear what that it might not be the prettiest one on the block.<P>Keep making good music. <P>Peace.

Future Filmmaker Over Here<P><BR>Hmm..Looks like you got the point across, Yella. And, that's ALL I have to say on the subject. :) I'll email you soon, "Oh, Ye who water's plants at Columbia" (I get a KICK out of that one, Yella!)<BR>SankofaII

so I would hope that you would continue to post because contrasting views promote thinking.<P>and you're right, there are definetly more "industry people" checking this & other sites than most realize, especially when it comes to marketing/promotion "research".

>So I know not of what you <BR>>speak. <P>okay, mister high and mighty non-radio listener. yes, okay you are better than the rest of us. i don't listen to urban contemporary stations either, but i do know what's being played. my head's not stuck in the sand (or elsewhere).<P>>But I think we're in a sorry <BR>>state when your defense to "Voodoo" <BR>>(an album that took 5 years <BR>>to release and, in a disguisingly <BR>>sinister way, was promoted, plotted and <BR>>hyped as much as an N' <BR>>Sync release, just to a markedly <BR>>different crowd)is not "it's a brilliant <BR>>piece of work", but rather, "at <BR>>least it's better than the crap <BR>>you hear on the radio". <P>it is YOUR OPINION that the album is not brilliant. i don't think anyone here is saying it's only marginally better than what's on the radio. in my post, i was simply saying "there's nothing to defend" when you can create music like D' has.<P>from your original post on this thread, it seems as if you're really incensed that the album took five years. is it possible that the man wanted to take some personal time to do other things? or did he need your permission to do so? if your main problem is the time factor, i'm sorry the years went by so slowly for you.<P>>Again, I like the album. It's good. <BR>>But sorry, I'm not sycophantically singing <BR>>the album's praises like every other <BR>>poster here.<P>oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooookaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!!!! :) <P>deejaydub

This is not a matter of if individuals accept the album or not, because in truth if everyone was so disturbed by the hype put on VooDoo then they wouldn't have bought it. Give tha brotha a break. The time it took him to finish the album in irrelivant. He released an album didn't he?! If you ask me the brotha is doing his job, and showing his creativity. He's reaching his level, and that's truely what it's all about. Regardless of if one listens to radio or not...if you truely are a friend to his music then you would have eventually gotten the album anyway. <P>Those of you who say he's selling out...well under who's standards? The point of being a musician is first the creativity that comes with being an artist and if by chance your album is hyped up...that isn't the artists fault...if anything it's good for the artist to reep the benifits of his artistry. So those who say "sell out" that ish isn't neccesary. Ask yourself this..."Am I capable of reaching the point of creativity as D" ...If so you would have done it! Right?! Those who enjoy the album "I'm wit cha"..those who don't...well I can't find anything to say that will not hurt your feelings... :0} Tee out...

D's never stopped being in the game. Grant it he didn't release a full-length album inbetween Bsugar and Vdoo but if you compile all the songs he collaborated on, produced, wrote, did back-up, remixed, contributed to soundtracks, you'll have more than plenty of songs to make up a full length album. He never deprived us of his gift. He wasn't all over the media like he is now, but he was still blessing us with his music. no doubt.<BR>

Damn, y'all. <P>So as soon as Voodoo dropped I had me a copy, and for the next week it went from the stereo to the car to the discman to the car back to the stereo. Chicken Grease (the drums--DIZZAMMN!!), Spanish Joint (tight groove), One Mo'Gin (I really, really felt it), Africa, Untitled. I played The Root over and over and over. I could feel everything on there from Al Green to Prince to Jimi (on Axis), but he had his own vibe in an album that NO ONE else is doing. Nowadays cats hit the studio and a month or two later drop an album out, and you can tell. I mean, Damn, y'all heard Sisqo's album? You give me free reign in a studio with some freaky singin ass cat, and in like a week I'll figure out enough shit to do that. Rhythm and Blues didn't used to be like that. You listen to anything pre-1985, and you won't hear jacked beats. But still, people are bashing the man's work of art--one of the few great R and B albums in like the last ten years--just because it doesn't sound like the evreyday shit you hear. Did y'all hear the same album? Are there two versions out there, the version I got and the booty version?<P>See, now the man's going to go drop some Puffy made half-ass shit in a couple months, with jacked beats from George Clinton songs and noises from a Texas Instrument, featuring Jay-Z, Nas, The Cash Money Crew and a duet with Mariah Carey and everyone's going to roll to it. Quest says it's going to be called James River but I'm a damn prophet, I'll tell y'all what the name of it will be:<P>D'angelo: FUCK ALL Y'ALL BITCHES, I'M GETTIN' PAID!!!! BLING BLING!!!!<P>One Love,<BR>BigPerm

hey bigperm, you got a picture?

You know you're crazy right...That's exactly what I was thingking. I think all the hatas just want anouther beat jackin, song stealin, no creativity havin, "I can make an album in two months",thinkin somebody...You put it in the right words...laughin my a** off...in VA..Tee out

I'm in total agreement with your reply. I couldn't have said it better.

I'm sorry yall but D'Angelos Voo Doo album is the best on the market. Only a true artist would recognise the quality of this album. I mean the instruments that he single handedly played( which were all of them), then his lyrics,Lord have mercy. The man is a musical genious. How can anyone that appreciate good music not like his Voo Doo album unless you're to immature to understand real music. I feel D'Angelo when he wrote what he wrote in his CD cover. Alot of people are going to criticise his music and he understands that but....he's still getting paid regardless of everyone's criticism. It's about time someone in my age group (20-30) made some music that you can understand and also have some meaning to it. I guess only the small minded can't understand where he's comeing from but the one's that have an imagination can. <BR> His title "Voo Doo" alone speaks for itself. Not alot of people would use that as a title but you have to also understand its origin. Voo Doo is a black man's religion and D'Angelo is practiceing his right to freedom of religion not meaning that he's a sorcerer or warlock or something if you know what I'm saying but, he is giveing credit to his belief as well as his culture which I personally think is magnificent. I hope he keeps up the good work and keep on enlighting people like me who appreciates the lyrics not just the bass drop.<P>One,<BR>Pooke of Bmore

Simply put, D'Angelo is a master craftsman. He is definitely a man who has tremendous talent that only those who are either artists themselves or true music connoisseurs can relate to. Although most people can groove to his sound and his vibe, most don't really understand the true nature of the content of his music. His music displays raw and deep emotion in such a poetic way that most people who don't think past "back that ass up" are not going to get it. I am very critical of music and I don't except every song as true music. Most of society today is focused on money and materialistic possessions so true musical expressions are largely overlooked by mainstream audiences. I say keep feeling D the way you do,and people like D with true talent will continue to earn a living by being true to their talent. I will support him regardless of what he brings out because I like the way he expresses himself. True artistry will change because the artist himself will change. Instead of people trying to compare one album to another, why not try to envision what growing experiences D could have been going through to inspire the creation of each album.If you dig D at all obviously you have taste so don't worry about bullshitting wanna be D'Angelo fans!

After purchasing D'Angelo last Tuesday, I listened to it....liked it...and knew I was going to pumping it for a great while (save new albums soon from Common, Blackalicious, and hopefully Jurassic 5). THEN, I listened to it all the way through in the car the other day. Just me, the CD, and the road. I was struck by the layers, and thick dialogue, and smoothed out tracks he had put together. It is truly better than I thought it was and it sounds better all together than just playing one cut (its eventual downfall on the charts). And like my brother said, this album can not compare to Brown Sugar because it is really his third album...he surpassed the point in his career where a second album would have come out and just went right to the third. That's why I think Devils Pie doesn't truly 'fit' on the album because it has some Brown Sugar feel. Luckily (or maybe not so unluckily) I sort of live in a vacuum with my music and really don't talk face to face too much with people who listen to this stuff, so I think I'll just be happy listening to it when I want. Waiting for the tour...<P>joemills

Excellent1:<P>Excellently put:<BR>"True musical expressions are largely overlooked by mainstream audiences." <BR>You're on point with that statement. It's sad, but true. I always wonder why the mainstream doesn't appreciate artists (like D) who create REAL music. Why does it always have to be about throwing generic sounds together JUST to make Bens? Whatever happened to the TRUE ARTISTS that showed a real love of music by injecting originality, distinctive flavor, and THOUGHT into their songs?<BR>In this day and age, TRUE ARTISTS are the minority.

I really haven't had a problem convincing people that D'Angelo is coming really hard on this new one. Most of the people I have come in contact with were at the record store on Tuesday, eager to buy the new CD. I'm an aquarius, so I can really feel the vibe that D is giving off. I think this is one that my mother would like, too, because he has that old school twist. Big ups to D for putting together another masterpiece. <BR> -blackbutterflye-<BR>

Just noticing today that D'Angelo is at the top of music news on almost every site that tracks such things. Probably because he's got the NUMBER 1 ALBUM IN THE COUNTRY. From looking at some of these posts I'd think he was struggling to get the word out. <BR>As some of the okayplayers noted, he doesn't need our help. The man sold 100,000 units the first day. I know it's not all about sales, but people are bemoaning the fact that it won't be mainstream. #1 is mainstream, for better or for worse.

I read your message today and I totally felt where you were coming from.....I waited 5 years for D'angelo's second album and on 1/25/00, I was in the music store I asked the clerk at the store to take the plastic off and told him that I would not be needing a bag. I put the Voodoo in my car stereo and started on my journey....Yes, it was different, but I was pleasantly surprised at what was on track 1-13....The very next day after my workout I placed the CD in my computer b/c my Stereo CD player is on the blink and I listened to the CD along with the words...It brought all his songs to life for me...I really love this album and I pity all those who can not feel it....No it's not mainstreamy and his album was not like the first but like someone said the album is superb.....I just hope that I do not have to wait another five years to have my soul awakened...:)<P>Chelle.....

Yes I am tired of defending VooDoo, and therefore, I do not. I have been defending real hiphop since I saw commercialism sweep through hiphop, kicking up the perverbial dust and blind everyone. The thing is that most people probably won't like VooDoo, and if they read the liner notes, will wonder what the guy is talking about. They will probably get angry and say that D' is conceited, and that his music isn't that good to begin with. I know that that is a load of crap, but at this point I also know that I would be an idiot to get mad about it anymore.<BR>You see, most people are stupid, plain and simple. People like D'Angelo, the Roots, Common, Redman... and their true fans are different. We are visionaries on a completely different level. as elitist and pretentious as it may sound, True hip-hoppers are better than those people content to follow the media machine. We can resist hype and think for outselves, where other have a significantly harder time. I am not saying that we do not nod our heads to the latest dance track or anything like that. What I am saying is that we can take a track and examine it, the hidden message, the instruments used, and know why they are used. We are those people who listened to Common's(cence) I Used To Love H.E.R. and knew exactly what he was talking about before he told us. And believe it or not, there are scores of people out there who think that he was talking about a lady even though he said that he was talking about hip-hop. those are the people that will not buy VooDoo. Those people run from anything that may invoke a thought, or a feeling.<BR>I used to get mad when people told me that Chico Debarge could sing, or when they told me that he was original. I used to really go off when they told me that he was better than D, but no more. Now I just smile, bow my head and say a prayer for them, hoping that one day they will realize the foolishness of their statement and way of thought.<P>Take pride in your beliefs and in your taste for you are one of a select group. It is we who must unite and carry on the torch for Hip-Hop, because the mainstream can not, and if they could then it wouldn't be that special.

We (listeners of "real" music) are no better than any other group of consumers. We may take music more serious than the next person, but that doesn't make us any better. Some people could give a eff, what Common/D/Roots/whoever else has to cotribute to music, and it's their right.<P>Bottom line: You/me/we aren't in the position to say who's right or wrong.<P>Peace<P>Pseudonym-less Wendell