You know since reading the T.H.E.M post along with the thoughts on a number of artists who are not incorporated into the mix, I was just curious as to how choices were made and it led me to think of the current state of music today, and those out to save it.

Those who know me know what I think of Lauryn Hill and how she is my "Prince" (the artist, get it). What am I getting at?..oh right! Why leave Lauryn out!

I mean Lauryn Hill has seen alot of different changes musically in her 7 years in the spotlight. She has only recently been given the credit she deserves but for all the wrong reasons. So many people are salty over it (not saying any names). Cats are hating left and right because they see her as "wasted talent" (c) Bronx Tale. She is definitely worth more than the watered down R&B she throws on the radio. Then there is the debate of her not making her own music. True or not, her beats were never the focus of her (peep the Score and its mediocre beat content). So what if I am overlooking an artist's integrity, others have done worse and are still hailed as some of the greatest.

Anyway, the fact of the matter is, that if the objective of a collaboration is to save people through music, would it be a sin to put aside differences and unite for its sole purpose? Y'all are part of an exclusive group of true raw talent - you can write, compose, hell dance in your sleep, and you are allowing one of your own to slip through the cracks because you too are salty over poor judgement and wrongful exposure. Instead of hating, where is the saving?

A diamond is still a diamond, even if it fell in some mud along the way.

T -he
H -eroes
E -cluding the
M -essiahs
????

So maybe she was asked and declined, maybe cats just don't like her...who knows...I am just stating an opinion...does anyone else have any? :-)



"Whether Jew or Gentile, I rank top percentile"-- Lauryn Hill

"Okayplayer!!! I drew blood!!!"-- Nou Ra

You would have to admit that Lauryn doesn't really want to be part of any crew. True? If she wanted this I am sure it would have been done by now.

Jason

Youre assuming that she was left out of it. But the thing is that "it" is a group of artists that have worked together in the past, and have decided that because of the things they all bring to the table, they should just work together, and look within their collective group to compose music... Lauryn was never a part of "it". She's worked with D'Angelo, sure... but she just had him sing on a track, by that measure then anyone who's ever collabo'ed with the artists in "it" would be included (i.e. Method Man, Beanie Sigel, Ceelo, Outkast, Beatnuts, and anyone else they've worked with). But in this case its the fact that they've worked together continuously. I mean... Maybe its all the fact that Lauryn doesnt WANNA be involved.... maybe they had asked her about it and received no response... maybe the difficulties in trying to work with her in the past made it unattractive to try to bring her into the group... there are a lot of possible reasons for them.

I guess we'll never know though.........
Blowin the doors off shit like bricks of C-4,

Mil

AIM: Milspectah Deck
E-Mail: Mil@thejawn.com
http://www.thejawn.com

"Drivin up the block in the car that they shot 'Pac in/Lookin for Big's killers, dressed in ridiculous/Blue and red like I don't see what the big deal is/Double barrel twelve gauge bigger than Chris Wallace/Pissed off, cause Biggie and 'Pac just missed all this/Watchin all these cheap imitations get rich off 'em/and get dollars that shoulda been their's like they switched wallets"-Eminem

"Who in they right mind think they could put a stop to hip hop...../if it dont stop til I stop/and I dont stop til it stop?"-J-Live.

~~June is Reunion Quotes Month~~
"This is why I hate OkayPlayers."-NazDak
"I cant believe he put her panties in my face..."-Abdul-Jaleel

**** DISCLAIMER!!! -----> I'm an asshole. Please take the following personal ****


(no message... sorry folks)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sheldon Mar"Quez" Rankin
http://www.Quez.Bored.org
click there ===> http://www.BlackPlanet.com/Referrals/Quez/

"if you want it I got it come and get it I'm wit it" --- Talib Kweli

"Hiphop you my BITCH and like a Ford I'm Exporin you" - Common

"I make niggas co-sign, on how many different flows I got" --- Planet A.S.I.A.

"The truth is, my crew is, the smoothest spitters of saliva juices like The Roots is, more Organic than acoustics" ---- Talib Kweli

Blowin the doors off shit like bricks of C-4,

Mil

AIM: Milspectah Deck
E-Mail: Mil@thejawn.com
http://www.thejawn.com

"...If you do not, or if you maliciously delay in so doing, I certify that with God's help I will advance powerfully against you and make war on you wherever and however I am able, and will subject you to the yoke and obedience of the Church and of their majesties and take your women and children to be slaves, and as such I will sell and dispose of them as their majesties may order, and I will take your possessions and do you all the harm and damage that I can."-Snippet of paragraph read by the Spanish to natives in the New World telling them to accept the Catholic faith. (Often read to them with no interpreter... just a notary public.)

"Who in they right mind think they could put a stop to hip hop...../if it dont stop til I stop/and I dont stop til it stop?"-J-Live.

She has been working with underground less known acts..

She has a track with a group Live Wunz called "Only Time Will Tell"

And she is in a reggae track with a cat called Kali Ranks.

So despite the fact she is not doing collabs on mainstream- she is still doing her thing..



"Whether Jew or Gentile, I rank top percentile"-- Lauryn Hill

"Okayplayer!!! I drew blood!!!"-- Nou Ra

*hooray for emotion icons*
:-) :-( ;-) :o :D }> :'( :P :9 :* :7

... or Soultronics, or SoulQuarians, or THEM.....

Blowin the doors off shit like bricks of C-4,

Mil

AIM: Milspectah Deck
E-Mail: Mil@thejawn.com
http://www.thejawn.com

"...If you do not, or if you maliciously delay in so doing, I certify that with God's help I will advance powerfully against you and make war on you wherever and however I am able, and will subject you to the yoke and obedience of the Church and of their majesties and take your women and children to be slaves, and as such I will sell and dispose of them as their majesties may order, and I will take your possessions and do you all the harm and damage that I can."-Snippet of paragraph read by the Spanish to natives in the New World telling them to accept the Catholic faith. (Often read to them with no interpreter... just a notary public.)

"Who in they right mind think they could put a stop to hip hop...../if it dont stop til I stop/and I dont stop til it stop?"-J-Live.

"Whether Jew or Gentile, I rank top percentile"-- Lauryn Hill

"Okayplayer!!! I drew blood!!!"-- Nou Ra

*hooray for emotion icons*
:-) :-( ;-) :o :D }> :'( :P :9 :* :7

I definitely feel what Ladiemecca is saying, and i agree. If this "THEM" project is like a big collaboration of all the intellegent soulful artists affiliated with hiphop/R&B or whatever, then Lauryn Hill would honestly come to mind. But then again it isnt my group so...whatever.

I do think that alot of people have been less than reluctant to give Lauryn her full props because the people who usually disregard hiphop as an valuable artform have put her in a high chair. Kind of ironic.


------
You not gon' respect self, at least respect the heritage/
Affect the lives, the spread of wealth and the merit is/
I realize what I portray day to day, I gotta carry this/
And beats, rhymes and life is where the marriage is/
-Common

If that was the case, Allen Iverson would be on the Dream Team (Aussies). Maybe T.H.E.M! cats would be better off without him...

or maybe her...

but not H.E.R.

Jason

it seems to be this is not just a group of people who have the same musical goals, but also are personally close with each other..
so Lauryn Outkast etc. might not fit into that.
Because basically, to my understanding, this is a group of close personal friends who are musicians.

Peace,
Steve
OkayArtist Board Moderator
Please Read Guidelines:
http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html
Email: okaysteve@hotmail.com
IM:Gigfog
Icq:#61949041

I say include her too. She's a genius. Plain and simple.

the door is always open. but i'm saying. there are gazillion opportunities for her to work with us in which she declined (read d'bonics, james not being properly compensated for his work on "miseducation".) but again. we are a group who have personal relationships. and we just don't have that with her. sorry. if she were more accesable then sure. we are down for whatever. but as it stands everyone listed below are cats who talk on the phone at least 2 hours a day. take road trips. cook. work. joke. go to movies. rent films. work. argue. and mediate with each other.

again sorry

Trying
Hard (to)
(und)E(rsatnd)
Mecca













the chitlin' circuit class of 2000 (as published in vibe magazine sept. 2000)

?uestlove-grand nega, grand wizzard, soulquarian, soultronic, and still a root.

d'angelo- idu, dirty soul, soulquarian, and a soultronic.

jaydee- a villager, an ummaher, a soulquarian, and a j-88er

james poyser- a grand wizzard, an axis, and soulquarian.

common- cornbread, madame zenobite

q-tip- ummahite. triber.

erykah badu- bag lady with green eyes

mos def- good tree-ite. native toungueite. black star. 1/3 of the greatest comedy siblings since the hudson brothers. (guess this pop culture reference and i will send you an autographed copy of "from the ground up" must guess tv station, 3 brother's names, and what phrase did they utter every week?

talib kweli- an eternal reflection, a blacker star

bilal- boy genius. soultronic. (didn't know that huh?)

To my understanding, I thought T.H.E.M was a group of musical saviors who joined to make good music. I didn't know all involved had close relationships. It's just upsetting to see talented artists coming together and fellow artists not being included, and I thought it was some exclusive clique sitting at a different lunch table than everyone else. My apologies. But if Lauryn ever wanted to join the mix, please don't shun her, she needs to be brought back musically and remember that she doesn't always have to be radio-friendly.

T-rying too
H-ard to
E-voke the
M-usical spirit back into Lauryn Hill :P

oh and here is my real T.H.E.M vote:
T-aming
H-earts and
E-levating
M-inds



"Whether Jew or Gentile, I rank top percentile"-- Lauryn Hill

"Okayplayer!!! I drew blood!!!"-- Nou Ra

*hooray for emotion icons*
:-) :-( ;-) :o :D }> :'( :P :9 :* :7

>To my understanding, I thought T.H.E.M
>was a group of musical
>saviors who joined to make
>good music.

no. whew ain't nobody saving nothing up in this piece. that is the main point of our first meeting/interview with vibe. so many people try to pit us against commercial cats, that gets us nowhere but in trouble.








I didn't know
>all involved had close relationships.
>It's just upsetting to see
>talented artists coming together and
>fellow artists not being included,
>and I thought it was
>some exclusive clique sitting at
>a different lunch table than
>everyone else. My apologies. But
>if Lauryn ever wanted to
>join the mix, please don't
>shun her,

never did. sheeeeit after all that james went through, he'd be the first to work with her still (even though she just finished album number 2). again. door is always open.


she needs to
>be brought back musically and
>remember that she doesn't always
>have to be radio-friendly.

okay. this is where the snob in me comes out. she has always been radio/pop friendly. name any joint. "killing me...", "ready or not" pop songs. "can't take my eyes..." "ex factor" pop. "lost ones" (what a bam bam over a breakbeat...still pop) "looking back" (welcome back kotter/i wish over a breakbeat) don't get it twisted. she is soulful. but she ain't made her version of "there's a riot goin on" either.






>
>T-rying too
>H-ard to
>E-voke the
>M-usical spirit back into Lauryn Hill
> :P
>
>oh and here is my real
>T.H.E.M vote:
>T-aming
>H-earts and
>E-levating
>M-inds
>
>
>
>"Whether Jew or Gentile, I rank
>top percentile"-- Lauryn Hill
>
>"Okayplayer!!! I drew blood!!!"-- Nou Ra
>
>
>*hooray for emotion icons*
>:-) :-( ;-) :o :D }> :'( :P :9 :* :7


the chitlin' circuit class of 2000 (as published in vibe magazine sept. 2000)

?uestlove-grand nega, grand wizzard, soulquarian, soultronic, and still a root.

d'angelo- idu, dirty soul, soulquarian, and a soultronic.

jaydee- a villager, an ummaher, a soulquarian, and a j-88er

james poyser- a grand wizzard, an axis, and soulquarian.

common- cornbread, madame zenobite

q-tip- ummahite. triber.

erykah badu- bag lady with green eyes

mos def- good tree-ite. native toungueite. black star. 1/3 of the greatest comedy siblings since the hudson brothers. (guess this pop culture reference and i will send you an autographed copy of "from the ground up" must guess tv station, 3 brother's names, and what phrase did they utter every week?

talib kweli- an eternal reflection, a blacker star

bilal- boy genius. soultronic. (didn't know that huh?)

>okay. this is where the snob
>in me comes out. she
>has always been radio/pop friendly.
>name any joint. "killing me...",
>"ready or not" pop songs.
>"can't take my eyes..." "ex
>factor" pop. "lost ones" (what
>a bam bam over a
>breakbeat...still pop) "looking back" (welcome
>back kotter/i wish over a
>breakbeat) don't get it twisted.
>she is soulful. but she
>ain't made her version of
>"there's a riot goin on"
>either.


This is true, but songs like those gave her that way that eminem has it now. There are the commercial joints that poppy kids enjoy, and then there are the tracks not everyone gets to hear. Those, in my opinion, are the ones that got her the notoriety from hip hop heads. Because cats became salty over her album not being mostly hip hop. And they felt cheated because they knew what an MC she was. Now did they get that opinion of her from hearing "Killing Me Softly"?? I SERIOUSLY doubt that one. What made me a believer started with tracks like "Vocab" (Remix), "Da Ladies", her live shows with freestyling, and tracks on the Score like "The Beast," "Manifest", "Family Business", stuff where she is showing her true MC'ing sans strong beats though.

As far as soul is concerned, her voice is amazing, and there is no doubt about that. But when someone is good at BOTH and VERY good at both, it's hard to identify her and where she fits in the matrix. Like do you mean Lauryn, the MC, Lauryn the soul singer? Too many people do call her a savior by her music, but it's more the message. Like, with Miseducation you are taking songs like Lost Ones, Ex-Factor, blahzay blah, but what about Forgive Them Father, and yeah she sampled "Concrete Jungle" but the lyrics can't be denied there. It's just really sad that alot of times an artist is identified by the poppy track and all too often ignore the B-sides, ya know?

she doesn't need you defending her, she has like twenty Grammys to do that. You sound like someone's mom making their kid invite someone to their birthday party they don't like.

If this discussion was upsetting you, you could have always skipped over it..

And a side note, Grammy's don't make an artist.


"Whether Jew or Gentile, I rank top percentile"-- Lauryn Hill

"Okayplayer!!! I drew blood!!!"-- Nou Ra

*hooray for emotion icons*
:-) :-( ;-) :o :D }> :'( :P :9 :* :7

>And a side note, Grammy's don't
>make an artist.

NOt one iota of truth.

milli vanilli, ring a bell?
why ya'll fighting in here?

:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7
a poem 4 fire - recited by jamal, ya'll





firefire100@hotmail.com

I know grammys don't make artists, that's why I said that. However, they do substaniate her as a "heavyweight" in the entertainment industry. Grammys give you power with your record label. My point is this. She does not need to be in THEM, because when an artist has success on that large of a scale, they can pretty much calibrate with who they want to. You don't have to act like "oh, poor little Lauren, the other kids don't include her" because like ?uest said the invitation is there. You are right that I probably should have ignored this whole discussion, but I thought you were "Miseducated"

I do have to give props to Lauren, but you don't have to defend her.

ooops

ooops

>And a side note, Grammy's don't
>make an artist.
>

You got that right. Ever since Milli Vanilli won, the Grammy has been cheapened. I'm not saying it's not important anymore because occasionally they give it to much deserving artists (i.e. The Roots), but the whole process is very political. I've seen record contracts that reward bonuses to artists and producers when they win a Grammy. So this leads to a lot of them concentrating on making a hit instead of making quality music. Half the time the people who vote for the nominees vote for the most popular person, not the most talented. In fact, I voted for last year's awards and I'm not even a member of NARAS. My boss is and he didn't have time to vote so I did. So, I wonder how many other members don't have time to vote.

> she needs to
>>be brought back musically and
>>remember that she doesn't always
>>have to be radio-friendly.
>
>okay. this is where the snob
>in me comes out. she
>has always been radio/pop friendly.
>name any joint. "killing me...",
>"ready or not" pop songs.
>"can't take my eyes..." "ex
>factor" pop. "lost ones" (what
>a bam bam over a
>breakbeat...still pop) "looking back" (welcome
>back kotter/i wish over a
>breakbeat) don't get it twisted.
>she is soulful. but she
>ain't made her version of
>"there's a riot goin on"
>either.

That's what I'm saying. U know I stay away from this board, but I needed to jump in. I love L, she reps Jerz lovlely the whole nine (strong beautiful sister making good music), but L has never made what I would say cutting edge music. She has made very good music and is way talented. But I'm waiting for her to push the envelope and do that next shit.

It was her first album and a damn good one, but she was never Me'shell Ndegecello just blazing her own musical trail regardless of commercial appeal. Plu she seesm so bent on letting folks know that she's an independent woman that relies on no-one that it doesn't seem that she wants to be tied to a collective or group (my editorializing).


__________________
What's Nesta listening to these days:

Nina Simone - The Ultimate Collection
Nina Simone - In Concert/I Put A Spell on You
Marvin Gaye - Here, My Dear
Rahsaan Patterson - Rahsaan Patterson
Roy Hargrove - Moment to Moment


"Let's do it ladies. Nesta doesn't need you, you need Nesta!" - Some genius named SkipGotSkills

CELEBRATING JUNE AS (RE)UNION QUOTE MONTH ON OKAYPLAYER.COM:
"Nesta, You r so damn sexy!! - Lyricalbullet (Hannah, plus remember you Brits are no good at wars anyway, almost as bad as the French)

"YIT-TI-DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!" - SkipGotSkills and Truth (Pops from the Wayans Bros.).

"If you're gonna grab my ass , you have to buy me a drink or talk dirty to me or something" - Me

What Rikkal's listening to these days: LMAO

D'Angelo-Voodoo
Erykah Badu-Baduizm
Bob Marley
Mos Def-Black On Both Sides

Lauryn where are you? i need anotha album....

aha :)

Ok Quest...I got two QUESTions: Is Lauryn really done with her "album number 2?" and will D'Angelo and Lauryn ever duet again? I believe that Lauryn would be a great addition to T.H.E.M, but once again it is not for us peeps to decide...but hey anotha crew would be tight, she did well with Fugees, which IS her crew! But anyway Peace out (I don't know much bout this if ya can tell) -Rikkal :P

>okay. this is where the snob
>in me comes out. she
>has always been radio/pop friendly.
>name any joint. "killing me...",
>"ready or not" pop songs.
>"can't take my eyes..." "ex
>factor" pop. "lost ones" (what
>a bam bam over a
>breakbeat...still pop) "looking back" (welcome
>back kotter/i wish over a
>breakbeat) don't get it twisted.
>she is soulful. but she
>ain't made her version of
>"there's a riot goin on"
>either.
>

Granted, the songs you named are pop/radio friendly, but nobody can deny the fact that she is lyrically and vocally gifted.

:o :D }> :P Learn something here....
http://WWW.STREETSCHOLAR.BIGSTEP.COM/
:o :o :o :o :o

see,
i was trying to figure out what up with why she and others weren't involved (or named) in the group..that makes al ot of sense. :)

ryan--who really wasn't saying much of a post but was wondering why folk were so up at arms over "T.H.E.M." and who wasn't named as being part of it (i felt like Ladie Mecca)..my bad






Check Out My New Signature, Fam:

"If you don't like me, I'll punch you
dead in the fucking face"
--Vin Diesel (THE FACE--MAY 2000)

"It is essential that non-gay black people recognize and respect the hardships, the difficulties black gay people experience, extending the love and understanding that is essential for the making of an authentic black community".
--bell hooks

"Homosexual persecution and condemnation has at its roots not only social ignorance, but a philosophically active anti-feminist dogma".
--Lorraine Hansberry

"Isn't it a shame? A black man invented the clock, and some black folks still don't know what time it is".
--Jewel McCabe"


"When a star shines, you get the light several million years later, and the star's probably dead by the time you get the light. I'd rather be the moon".
--Me'Shell Ndegeocello


"Being a healthy black gay adult is doubly hard, considering the propaganda to the contrary".
--Me'Shell Ndegeocello

Is she God? I mean if I were to choose a "modern" innovator, creator of music, I wouldn't choose her. Why? Because IMO, she "recycles" "alot" of her music. I believe that the majority of her fans are too young to realize where her music came from. Nothing wrong with recycling, all musicians do it. But cats were behaving as if she were stevie, no? DON'T GET ME WRONG! I love her music, alot! But in all actuality she did nothing too different than what Mary J has done, singing over hip hop beats, using old school melodies in a new school way. I repeat, ain't nothing wrong with that. But until I hear an Innervisions, Off the Wall, from Miss Lady, I will remain unfazed/unamazed by her "innovation".

I would also like to add, that her creations aren't always (60%) created by her solely, like her album, her label, her, would lead you to believe, so don't be bamboozled children. Hey if I could sell 5 million albums and get a billion grammies, I would do it. But i would give credit where that motherfuckers due. God, karma and love are gonna get you (c) krs.

Does this post sound bitter? Prolly. Do I care? No.

:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7
a poem 4 fire - recited by jamal, ya'll

I learned the contours of her body much like a familiar street corner....
So nevermind........
Entering the local bodega frequently, often forgetting why I was "coming"....
The door loosened..ajar with wind-blown emotions that never seem to stay long enough...
I remain devoted to exiting sites fo carelessly cramped shelves...
Becoming a consumer unlike myself rooted in wastefulness....
My love for her in high-priced pools of lust would reflect...
My new intent is bargain hunting for intellect.....

firefire100@hotmail.com

True they gave her the 360 degree title of innovator, where alot of her innovating did not stem from her R&B. In my opinion, much of her R&B was not innovating, but her MC'ing was. She set a new standard for female MC's. Came up to the forefront MC Lyte style only with a tad more femininity and let the world know you don't have to strip to sell and you can still rhyme. It was refreshing with all that Lil' Kim and Foxy Brown stuff. I mean, even Rah Digga had the opportunity to be like that but she took the shiny shirt way with the rest of them. After Miseducation, though I'm not gonna touch the riske magazine covers she was on, but she called it art so que sera sera.
And as far as waiting on some "Innversions" type stuff...damn it was her FIRST solo album...give the girl some time. :-)



"Whether Jew or Gentile, I rank top percentile"-- Lauryn Hill

"Okayplayer!!! I drew blood!!!"-- Nou Ra

*hooray for emotion icons*
:-) :-( ;-) :o :D }> :'( :P :9 :* :7

I gotta agree with Quest (for) and Fire , and say that she is really commercial and POP. That ain't bad, cause here voice is so dope that it would be sad that radio listeners and yuppies did not here it. But this core of THEM (still struggling with this) are not commercial cats (I was gonna say they aren't Grammy winners, til I remebered the Roots). Anyways I am just wondering what L's new Lp is gonna be like, is it gonna be her, "Riot" or "Miseducation 2".


"Remember there's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over."-Frank Zappa

"Escuchela la ciudad respirando"
"So much on my mind I just can't recline
Blastin holes in the night til she bled sunshine. Breathe in, inhale vapors from bright stars that shine. Breathe out, weed smoke retrace the skyline.Yo don't the bass ride out like an ancient mating call.I can't take it y'all, I can feel the city breathin.Chest heavin, against the flesh of the evening.Sigh before we die like the last train leaving."--Black Star "Respiration"




"Too many pieces of music finish too long after the end." -Igor Stravinsky

i do not remember the name of the magazine, but she had on some super short hoochie mama shorts and a halter top. in the interview, she said too many people had categorized as the good girl and she wanted people to see more than that. now, i am not mad at her for this, but it is shit like this that people get upset about, makin her into something she is not. what is the difference between foxy's cover on vibe and lauryn's cover on ? (somebody help me out with the title of the mag)


**********THE SIG**********

i'm a tru pisces tryna flow in the direction of both of these okplayer quotes:

"I m raising a fuckin angelic being who is going to replenish this fuckin earths cuz in 2G all we fuckin do is talk.....im teachin my seed to turn his spirit inside out and spread beams of green light"
-nebbie

"GOd give me the strength to change the things i can, understanding for those i cannot and the muthafuckin heart to stand up for my beliefs and principles, so that when the government that is suppossed to protect me turns against me and my people we will have the means, the might and the muthafuckin gun power to blow away our oppressors
umm amen"
-earthqueen

and last but not least:

"all things considered, i'd rather be me"
-bfnh

That is the magazine she defends herself saying her being painted gold wearing those shorts was art..


"Whether Jew or Gentile, I rank top percentile"-- Lauryn Hill

"Okayplayer!!! I drew blood!!!"-- Nou Ra

*hooray for emotion icons*
:-) :-( ;-) :o :D }> :'( :P :9 :* :7

is there a difference? I can say being naked is "art" and all of a sudden it's different than what Kim does? I on't think so.


:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7
a poem 4 fire - recited by jamal, ya'll

I learned the contours of her body much like a familiar street corner....
So nevermind........
Entering the local bodega frequently, often forgetting why I was "coming"....
The door loosened..ajar with wind-blown emotions that never seem to stay long enough...
I remain devoted to exiting sites fo carelessly cramped shelves...
Becoming a consumer unlike myself rooted in wastefulness....
My love for her in high-priced pools of lust would reflect...
My new intent is bargain hunting for intellect.....

firefire100@hotmail.com

"Whether Jew or Gentile, I rank top percentile"-- Lauryn Hill

"Okayplayer!!! I drew blood!!!"-- Nou Ra

*hooray for emotion icons*
:-) :-( ;-) :o :D }> :'( :P :9 :* :7

Damn, what are yall talkin' about? In that picture she has on short shorts, but her ass cheeks ain't hangin' out. There's nothing wrong with dressing sexy. There is a big difference between dressing sexy and sleazy. Lil Kim, Foxy Brown and Jennifer Lopez dress sleazy. It's a fine line and some of these celebrity women cross it all the time. Lauryn has not.

I think the point of T.H.E.M. is pretty much in line with who would be considered a soulquarian.
For that answer, check out the thread that says
"is premo a soulquarian". Quest answers that question and what makes someone one. That answer can also be applied to your case. Quest made a good point in that post. What probably started out as a "name" for a collective of friends who as quest said, "work together, hang out, argue, watch movies, etc..", these "crew names" have been blown way out of proportion. People have to relax and take it for what it is. Don't put pressure on people to include or exclude individuals from their inner circle. Heck, would you like a site where people tell you which friends you should keep and which you should add? I think not, so lauryn's got mass appeal, we all know. Nobodies knockin' her, she's a grown woman. She'll do and say as she wants. So let's keep the stress off of ?uest, he's just one guy in a collective.
Peace

Whooops,

ExcusEe moi for jumping in here, but....

it seems to me that lauryn is hip hop, plain and simple and if you don't get that by harping on the singing versus rapping you're not getting the point....a lot of artists have talked about this before, but it seems to me that Flash put it best that: "hip hop is not about conformity," i.e., breaking the rules IS hip hop...my best guess is that Lauryn is simply being Lauryn on Miseducation, it's very very simple, those who try to follow the ridiculous title of "hip hop purists" run to draw lines around the bold and audacious, this is senseless....excuse me for my vigor, I hardly ever post here but this subject excited me. I used to dislike the Refugees "commercial slant" but listening to Miseducation for the first time ever has me convinced: L IS hip hop!!! (Is she even cool with the Roots?????)

FG

"Can't take my eyes off of you....you're just too good to be true." - L-Boogie

"Fuck this is rap and this is hip hop, it came from the same place." - Del

And that is the stand I take on how to define her. However, since her solo was not what hip hoppers wanted, they have changed her position in the game from hip hop to soul.


"Whether Jew or Gentile, I rank top percentile"-- Lauryn Hill

"Okayplayer!!! I drew blood!!!"-- Nou Ra

*hooray for emotion icons*
:-) :-( ;-) :o :D }> :'( :P :9 :* :7

And that is the stand I take on how to define her. However, since her solo was not what hip hoppers wanted, they have changed her position in the game from hip hop to soul.


"Whether Jew or Gentile, I rank top percentile"-- Lauryn Hill

"Okayplayer!!! I drew blood!!!"-- Nou Ra

*hooray for emotion icons*
:-) :-( ;-) :o :D }> :'( :P :9 :* :7

We are fortunate that ?uest would even choose to let the Players in on this critical decision for their group (naming T.H.E.M), but we should not give suggestions on who should and should not be a part of the group. Though he's given us a glimpse of what the clique is about, we still do not a clear view of what path they are choosing to take.

To me, Lauryn is not a good choice. Since she profitted from D's and James' collaboration and became a no-show for Voodoo, I do not have the same respect for her. Whatever the case may be for her lack of support (though she may have been in the studio once or twice), D' still was on HER album. I don't know, maybe I do not have all of the info. Not as though that's never happened. If I'm wrong, please let me know so I can be enlightened.

Anyhow, we are lucky to have some insight on their efforts, but I do not see any additions to the group, no matter how they may seem to be the perfect choice. Sometimes you can't change what just works.

kysla

Lauryn will get over it if she's not a THEM. i mean she will live. nahmean?

thank you and have a great day. :-)

:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7
a poem 4 fire - recited by jamal, ya'll

I learned the contours of her body much like a familiar street corner....
So nevermind........
Entering the local bodega frequently, often forgetting why I was "coming"....
The door loosened..ajar with wind-blown emotions that never seem to stay long enough...
I remain devoted to exiting sites fo carelessly cramped shelves...
Becoming a consumer unlike myself rooted in wastefulness....
My love for her in high-priced pools of lust would reflect...
My new intent is bargain hunting for intellect.....

firefire100@hotmail.com

i look at my wall and i see lauryn picture of her in the source magazine, and i realize that is a strong sista. musically, i feel she is like a hip-hop version of roberta flack, another underrated musical artists. i hope her next album exceeds the greatness of the first.

How a non-Okayartist got this many responses in the Okayartist section. So come on!!! Let's make her an Okayartist whaddya say!!!!! lol :P


"Whether Jew or Gentile, I rank top percentile"-- Lauryn Hill

"Okayplayer!!! I drew blood!!!"-- Nou Ra

*hooray for emotion icons*
:-) :-( ;-) :o :D }> :'( :P :9 :* :7

n/m

:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7:*:P:9:7
playtime is ending
only The Plan matters
the righteous shall live
all else shall scatter
those who oppose,
left beaten and tattered
playtime is ending
only The Plan matters

firefire100@hotmail.com

Whew I thought he meant LaurYn...oh well, where ignorance is bliss..


"Whether Jew or Gentile, I rank top percentile"-- Lauryn Hill

"Okayplayer!!! I drew blood!!!"-- Nou Ra

*hooray for emotion icons*
:-) :-( ;-) :o :D }> :'( :P :9 :* :7

I bet you would love to.

"Whether Jew or Gentile, I rank top percentile"-- Lauryn Hill

"Okayplayer!!! I drew blood!!!"-- Nou Ra

*hooray for emotion icons*
:-) :-( ;-) :o :D }> :'( :P :9 :* :7

lauryn hill's album was great. though i was not overly impressed with any of the tracks, i definitely felt all of her LYRICS. . .the point is to make music that touches the listener's soul. . .they don't have to make mental sense as long as they make sense to your heart - this is why "ex-factor" can make me drop everything i am doing and feel even though her lyrics are slightly vague. . .

my one beef with miseducation was that some of her lines were recycled. . .check "when it hurts so bad" and compare that line "i loved real real hard once/but the love wasn't returned/found out the man i'd die for/he wasn't even concerned" to the song on the fugees album i think it's called paradise - she uses the same line, but raps it and not sings it. no one ever said anything about it but i caught it and wasn't really feeling it. . .

as far as lauryn being pop, i don't know about that. . .i mean, what makes you pop? winning a grammy? roots did it. having your album praised everywhere and video played all over the place before the album comes out? that's erykah right there. are you pop if white people like you? 'cause the only friends that i have that go to see the roots ARE white (with maybe two exceptions)!!! i think maybe we should be more careful with the definition.

all that griping being done, i would have to agree that lauryn doesn't fit in THEM. part of the beauty of all of THEM artists (yay ebonics!) is that they seem to touch an extremely. . .mentally liberated audience. . .i mean, you can't win over the "cristal and ice and the benz that actually belongs to the record label" crowd if you are using words that they can't understand/pronounce (qoolquest, that's the snob in ME). and lauryn is appealing to that audience. that's not a pop audience, it's just one that's not really on the level yet. and she can't really make that audience happy if she's working with THEM.

not to mention the fact that no one likes to work with anyone that stiffs them out of their money and credit. . .


~~~~~always reppin the good DC~~~~~

"hey! have you seen two white guys and a white girl, and the white guys look like hicks!!??" - random shirtless white dude in georgetown at 5 am