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Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=19&topic_id=20244
Posted by yosh, Fri Jan-19-01 05:27 AM

what da dilly yo?

"Drink Listerine, brush my teeth with amphetamine
So I can sound fresh and say dope things in between."-Ras Kass
20245, WTF?!!!?! dayum
Posted by DROots, Fri Jan-19-01 07:19 AM
stupid legal shit... i hope it all gets worked out
aim: okayplayerDROots

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20246, The deal is
Posted by REDeye, Fri Jan-19-01 08:04 AM
The movie's garbage.

What other possible reason could there be for a distributor refusing a high-profile presentation of the film?

Don't give me some black/white politics b.s. It's all about the green. If it bombs on this big platform, it's going straight in the toilet.

They're gonna sneak that shit out at some "urban" locations. That's if it doesn't just go straight to video.


I'm still writing 20th century on all my checks.
20247, Did you see it?
Posted by guest, Fri Jan-19-01 11:06 AM
Cause I'd be interested to know why it's so horrible.

My expectations aren't high, but then again I've been surprised before.

Least I'm giving it a CHANCE.

Just thought I'd throw that in there . . .

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20248, RE: Did you see it?
Posted by REDeye, Fri Jan-19-01 11:15 AM
Nope, didn't see it. But i'm just saying... why else would they not want to premiere their movie on a high-profile stage?


I'm still writing 20th century on all my checks.
20249, RE: The deal is
Posted by handle, Fri Jan-19-01 03:47 PM
>The movie's garbage.
>What other possible reason could there
>be for a distributor refusing
>a high-profile presentation of the

Spoken like a true fucking asshole.

Maybe there are LEGAL reasons, such as clearences to deal with. Who knows.

I do know that your post was garbage, why else would I reply?

You have committed fallacy number #1 : IGNORANCE.

You have no idea what the fuck is going on and you post some bullshit about it.

Maybe you could guest host for Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reily.

You puss filled pundit.

-Tom Hayes

P.S. I hope your grandmother is stabbed with a fork. That'd be something good to post about.
20250, okaaaaaaaay
Posted by REDeye, Fri Jan-19-01 04:31 PM
Speaking of ignorance...

Since you obviously know nothing about me or what I know, you should be last person giving a lecture on ignorance.

Now, having said that, and also admitting that I haven't seen the movie, there is enough in the article - and the several other articles posted all over the internet, for anyone who cares to search - to get the sense that "legal issues" are probably the least likely reason for not allowing the film to be shown. Artisan has threatened legal action IF the film is shown. Aside from being barred by the distrubutor, there can be no other legal issues involved. What, you think Marc Levin hijacked the film a la "Burn Hollywood Burn" and tried to show it? You think that if there was some contractual obligation to premiere the film somewhere else or at a later time, they wouldn't have just mentioned that?

Furthermore, I have it from more than one source that the film blows. Of course, that is just a matter of opinion(s). Just as there are some people out there who thought "Belly" was a good movie, some might think this film is good too.

Incidentally, I know more than a few things about the movie business, as well as film festivals, having been in and around this business for close to a decade. Not to say I know everything. I'm not even saying that I'm 100% right. But all indicators point to the distributor getting cold feet. Feel free to speculate on why that is, but legal issues don't lead to cold feet.

In any event, regardless of the real reason Artisan blocked the showing, I am sure the film will be critically panned once it finally reaches an audience. You may not put much credence in the words of, um, pundits. You may even like the movie. But the I stand by my prediction: the movie is garbage.

Now, if you simply want to figure out which of us can find the most inventive ways to call the other ignorant or stupid, go ahead. I have a thesaurus too - we can play that game until they delete us.

Otherwise, I dare you to post an intelligent reply.

Simple-minded half-wit.


I'm still writing 20th century on all my checks.
20251, RE: okaaaaaaaay
Posted by handle, Fri Jan-19-01 06:55 PM
So you admit you are ignorant. GREAT.

20252, RE: okaaaaaaaay
Posted by yoplay, Fri Jan-19-01 11:58 PM
dammit handle, the man is making clear points, listen to them.
20253, RE: okaaaaaaaay
Posted by yoplay, Fri Jan-19-01 11:59 PM
sorry, redeye could very well be a woman too.
20254, RE: okaaaaaaaay
Posted by handle, Sat Jan-20-01 10:04 AM
>Speaking of ignorance...
>Since you obviously know nothing about
>me or what I know,
>you should be last person
>giving a lecture on ignorance.
That's just the POINT. No one knows who you are. So how can we trust your opinion?

Now, since we are all open minded individuals on this board we WOULD give you the benefit of the doubt, IF YOU HAD SEEN THE MOVIE.

>Now, having said that, and also
>admitting that I haven't seen
>the movie, there is enough
>in the article - and
>the several other articles posted
>all over the internet, for
>anyone who cares to search
>- to get the sense
>that "legal issues" are probably
>the least likely reason for
>not allowing the film to
>be shown. Artisan has threatened
>legal action IF the film
>is shown. Aside from being
>barred by the distrubutor, there
>can be no other legal
>issues involved. What, you think
>Marc Levin hijacked the film
>a la "Burn Hollywood Burn"
>and tried to show it?
>You think that if there
>was some contractual obligation to
>premiere the film somewhere else
>or at a later time,
>they wouldn't have just mentioned

Maybe, maybe not. You admit not knowing the answer to the question, so it's just SPECULATION. Specualtion can get you burned. Ask an oil man.

>Furthermore, I have it from more
>than one source that the
>film blows. Of course, that
>is just a matter of
>opinion(s). Just as there are
>some people out there who
>thought "Belly" was a good
>movie, some might think this
>film is good too.

You have to NAME SOURCES for their opinions to be considered valid. For all I know your source is Jeffrey Lyons or Micheal Medved, who dislike the films due to it not being "Christian" enough. I have no idea who your sources are, and I have no idea who you are, so why would I trust what your friends say?

>Incidentally, I know more than a
>few things about the movie
>business, as well as film
>festivals, having been in and
>around this business for close
>to a decade. Not to
>say I know everything. I'm
>not even saying that I'm
>100% right. But all indicators
>point to the distributor getting
>cold feet. Feel free to
>speculate on why that is,
>but legal issues don't lead
>to cold feet.

Again, you have to PROVE CREDIBILITY before your opions about A FILM YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN are given CREDENCE. For all I know you are a cock fluffer and attend movie festivals to provide blowjobs for the patrons. I have no idea, you have provided no frame of refrence. You could be a Tom Cruise Stalker and attend the festivals in hopes of seeing his ass. I have no idea. Back it up with examples.

>In any event, regardless of the
>real reason Artisan blocked the
>showing, I am sure the
>film will be critically panned
>once it finally reaches an
>audience. You may not put
>much credence in the words
>of, um, pundits. You may
>even like the movie. But
>the I stand by my
>prediction: the movie is garbage.

Your predictions have as much sway as a National Enquirer psychic.

And ANY CREDIBLE critic or pundit would reserve judgement on the film until he has seen it, or AT LEAST until sources that he can CITE have made public their opinions.

And NO CREDIBLE person would call a film THEY HAVEN'T SEEN GARBAGE. The magic Eight Ball would say that "The Outllok doesn't look Good" at least.

>Now, if you simply want to
>figure out which of us
>can find the most inventive
>ways to call the other
>ignorant or stupid, go ahead.
>I have a thesaurus too
>- we can play that
>game until they delete us.
Why not call me garbage? It's your favorite word.

>Otherwise, I dare you to post
>an intelligent reply.
>Simple-minded half-wit.

Again, you have NO CREDIBILITY. My name is Tom Hayes and I'll stand behind my shit. A lot of people know me here, and I CAN provide refrencees if needed.

A review of your posts: Because I have READ and SEEN your post my review is : Red is full of garbage.
20255, Your first mistake is...
Posted by REDeye, Sat Jan-20-01 11:54 AM
...assuming that no one knows me simply because you don't know me.

Your second mistake is not taking the time to figure out who I am before attacking me. Know your enemy. I have been posting on these boards for what many would consider to be a fair amount of time (6, 7 months or so). I have made solid contributions to many a discussion on film, enough to have, if I may be so bold, established in the very least that I have some valid, educated, experienced-based opinions on movies and the movie industry. Not to say everyone agrees with me or that I am always right. But, in a nutshell, I know what I'm talking about.

Third mistake? Forgetting where you are. Here on okayplayer.com, people often engage in prognostication as well as humor. Last time I checked, these were accepted practices here. You may not like my prediction, and you may not think the wording of it was particularly funny. That's you prerogative. I also recognize that responding to something one doesn't like with personal attacks is also accepted practice here. As is gay bashing, by the way.

Your fourth mistake would be somehow forgetting that the validity of the argument is unrelated to the credibility of the speaker. Of course, I may not have presented a very convincing argument for the probable poor quality of the film in my first post. But I think I made a strong case in my follow-up. It's not iron-clad, which I freely admit, but it should certainly give one pause. As far as naming sources, I'm not sure at this point that I could name someone and have you go, "Oh, okay, now I agree with you." Yes, you know who the people are, as they are themselves okayplayers. No, ?uest was not one of them. He doesn't call it garbage, but he clearly doesn't think it's all that good. But add him to the "panned" list and I now have three different, credible (in my opinion) sources that say the movie is subpar. (The non-quorum consensus seems to be that Tariq is the best thing in the movie.) Still, that doesn't mean that the movie was pulled simply because of the quality, so I am speculating. If you don't like speculation, tough. But simply saying that the screening has been cancelled "due to a majority vote of the producers who have pulled the film" (from the Slamdance website) practically begs speculation.

I could go on, as you have made at least two other blatant mistakes in your attempted rebuttal. But I'll go with this as a summary:

You may not know me, but other people here do. Regardless, the points I have made stand on their own not as fact, but as educated and insigthful opinion. This is true whether you believe I have "credibility" or not.

It's nice, Tom, that you stand by everything you said. But that fact is, you haven't said anything - except announce yourself as a mean-spirited malcontent with homophobic tendencies. You want my grandmother to be stabbed with a fork? You stand by that? Wow. And I don't even know what the hell "cock fluffing" is.

If you have anything else to add on the subject of the film, the validity of speculation or methods of argumentation, feel free to reply. If you just want to wish further ill on me and my family, please, take it to the email.


I'm still writing 20th century on all my checks.
20256, RE: Your first mistake is...
Posted by handle, Sat Jan-20-01 12:04 PM
Again, you do NOT offer any credibilty ona film you have never seen.

Get over it, admit you're wrong, or BACK UP YOUR OPINION WITH FACTS.

That's all I ask, is for FACTS.

I will no longer post replies to your messages on this subject, and I hope the next time I see a post by you it is more thought out and reasoned instead of wildly speculative and self agrandizing.

P.S. Hope you grandmother is well.
Posted by guest, Fri Jan-19-01 11:10 AM
Damn, I am on my way to Utah tonight to the festival. The main reason I wanted to go was to see the Brooklyn Babylon and the Roots perform. I just called Artisan pictures to find out what was up and they gave me some bullshit story. I don't know, maybe the movie is bad. I heard some of the Okayplayer's saw it at a screening. Was it good?
20258, the show will go on.
Posted by qoolquest, Fri Jan-19-01 10:44 PM
hey. everyone is kinda correct in their opinion here.
i've yet to see the final results, but i doubt this film has the makings of academy award fodder. but i doubt that it's "body rock" either. and from scoring it. i think riq has serious amazing potential.

redye does have a good point too. this has been a horrible year for artisan. this film got the okay based on the revenue that "blair witch" pulled in. then they fucked around and pissed that shit back into that horrible ass sequel. --ok i didn't see it, so i could sound like red, but i heard from mad people it sucked (and i loved the original).

so perhaps any chance that artisan dude has to sell his film to a sucker ass company will be ixnayed if buzz gets out that the film is not good.


i'm chillin in a fly ass utah cabin on some ghetto shit (fuck this romantic ass fireplace shit, i got the stove, oven, microwave, hair dryer, iron, hot water from shower, etc on to keep this biatch warm!) waiting to see if indeed the federal marshall shuts us down tommorow.

not to worry, we are also doing a show with jack johnson (whoever he is) on sunday for sundance.

by the way....slamdance is the mcdowell's to sundance's mcdonalds.


2001 is scarlet player year. here is my ish list.........

emmc (and all of his surnames)- those dickhead ass "steve" posts.
kaleel- insecure ass motherfucker, scurred of losing his wife to black thought.

20259, RE: the show will go on.
Posted by handle, Sat Jan-20-01 10:08 AM

>redye does have a good point
>too. this has been a
>horrible year for artisan. this
>film got the okay based
>on the revenue that "blair
>witch" pulled in. then they
>fucked around and pissed that
>shit back into that horrible
>ass sequel. --ok i didn't
>see it, so i could
>sound like red, but i
>heard from mad people it
>sucked (and i loved the

The reason I trust this is that I have a frame of refrence for qoolquest. From this board I know his opinions on other things and have made the judgement that he is credible. And any friend of qoolquest is a friend of mine.

20260, Humor I make you laugh (c) Greg Nice
Posted by Improv, Sat Jan-20-01 10:39 AM
"Getting ass! Getting ass! Thank God almighty I'm getting ass!"---Jesse Jackson

***http://www.NativeMagazine.com : Pimpin' dese wordz since the 2K...***
20261, RE: the show will go on.
Posted by REDeye, Sat Jan-20-01 12:10 PM
For the record, I'm not trying to shit on the film. It's not like I have some agenda to ruin to movie (though I will always try to discourage people from seeing bad movies).

The original post seemed to be asking for speculation, so I gave my assessment of the situation. I'm sure it's not so horrible as to be unwatchable, simply for the fact that the music should be good and there are people in it who are interesting.

I liked Slam (to a certain degree), but I'm not completely convinced of Marc Levin's talent, nor do I believe he has completely mastered the workshop-style of writing/directing. He's no Mike Leigh.

In any event, enjoy the slopes.

>by the way....slamdance is the mcdowell's
>to sundance's mcdonalds.

LOL! That's fucked up. Slamdance is legit! It's quickly becoming what Sundance USED to be. If Sundance is McDonald's, Slamdance is more like your local non-chain burger joint - inconsistent quality, second-rate storefront, but the original owners are still doing this because they love making burgers.

Oh yeah - go see White Face! A serious comedy about racism. (Look for my name in the credits!)


I'm still writing 20th century on all my checks.
20262, Levin shows "Babylon" anyway!
Posted by REDeye, Sun Jan-21-01 12:22 PM

>> Defiant Levin Screens "Babylon" at Slamdance After All

(indieWIRE/01.21.01) -- Slamdance's promised "surprise" opening screening yesterday turned out to be the originally scheduled "Brooklyn Babylon" by Marc Levin which was pulled Thursday under a cloud of legal threats from distributor/producer Artisan Entertainment. After a morning meeting between festival director Peter Baxter and Levin, Baxter told indieWIRE, "We're aware that there may be legal consequences but we want to stand by the filmmaker."

"There is no resolution on the situation between the two parties and it appears that the filmmaker has taken the matter into his own hands," an Artisan spokesperson said.

Communications broke down between Levin and Artisan president Amir Malin months ago. The filmmaker says they haven't spoken in more than six months. He reports making repeated attempts to contact Artisan in the last few days but without success except that, "They've added on that I'm damaging their reputation."

When Levin arrived in Utah yesterday he says he was so exhausted he didn't know if he had the strength to screen the film, but after sleeping for 12 hours, he turned on the TV. "I saw the inauguration happening and I knew we I had to go through with it," Levin explained.

Both Levin and Baxter are predicting that there will be an outpouring of support from other filmmakers in the next few days. "In the true indie spirit of helping the filmmaker as much as we can we decided show the film," Baxter said. "We won't be intimidated."


I'm still writing 20th century on all my checks.
20263, Brooklyn follow-up, please
Posted by REDeye, Mon Jan-22-01 05:26 AM
So, in summary, as reported at variety.com:
- The film was pulled because Artisan was unhappy with the quality and unsure as to its market potential.
- Artisan and Levin reached some sort of detente.
- Tariq Trotter is good in it, and perhaps has a future as an actor, if desired.

A report from the front would be appreciated.



Artisan logo gets negative feedback at screening


LevinVisit the Sundance Online Resource Center.PARK CITY, Utah -- Artisan may not like "Brooklyn Babylon," and the producers of the pic may have wanted a bit more controversy to give it heat, but the hip-hop love story ultimately opened the seventh annual Slamdance Film Festival as planned.

Reps for Artisan and Off-Line, the films' producer and distributor, respectively, had sent a fax to Slamdance forbidding the film's exhibition (Daily Variety, Jan. 19).

Just before the screening, however, at 3:30 p.m. on Saturday afternoon at the Silvermine, Slamdance fest director Peter Baxter and "Brooklyn Babylon" director Marc Levin spoke to Daily Variety about their decision to show the film against Artisan's wishes.

Levin explained that, in his dealings with Artisan topper Amir Malin, it was unclear to him that Artisan had objected to screening the film at Slamdance and if so, why.

Although Baxter was concerned about legal action, he said, "I think it's important that a festival like Slamdance really stands for freedom to show films. We will stay strong with the films we programmed until the end."

Sources close to Artisan say Malin attempted to contact Levin late Saturday to reverse his decision to restrict the screening and let the pic play as planned. But Artisan says the two never connected. Malin and Levin finally spoke early Sunday and have agreed to meet and discuss a plan for the film.

It remains unclear whether Artisan will follow through on its commitment to distribute the film theatrically, and, if not, what other life the film will have outside of the festival circuit.

At the film's packed screening, Slamdance co-founder Dan Mirvish joked, "Don't be surprised if the sheriff shows up and takes the print." When the Artisan logo appeared on screen just before the pic's opening credits, members of the audience hissed. But the pic played on sans interruption.

Off key

Artisan would not comment, but reps for the shingle say Malin felt the pic was weak, that it would be a very tough sell to the hip-hop market and, further, that he never committed to allowing it to screen at Slamdance in the first place. Documents provided to Daily Variety make more specific Malin's reasons for at first trying to stop the screening. "Slamdance is a joke," he stated in an email. "If they want Tariq (Trotter) to play, tell them to call his manager."

As for the film itself, it may lack the strength of Levin's earlier "Slam" but it does introduce audiences to a new star: Trotter, amember of hip-hop band the Roots. This is Trotter's first sizable film acting gig (he also appears in Spike Lee's "Bamboozled"). His charisma flies off the screen and may augur well for the performer's acting career, should he want one.


I'm still writing 20th century on all my checks.
20264, Interview clip w/Levin and BT
Posted by REDeye, Mon Jan-22-01 06:15 AM
For those with dl capabilities, here is brief quicktime interview wth the director, Marc Levin, and Tariq Trotter, as well as a Hub and Kamal (who probably should've just kept quiet).

At the bottom of the page, click on one of the red links at the bottom of the article. It's a big download, though (5.9 MB).

Man, the world of indie film is a trip.

Fight for your film!


I'm still writing 20th century on all my checks.
20265, link? n/m
Posted by guest, Mon Jan-22-01 06:57 AM
Soul Jam of the Week:
"Blacks and Blues" Bobbi Humphrey

"But we are sick and tired of hearing your song/Telling how you are gonna change right from wrong/'Cause if you really want to hear our views/You haven't done nothing!"

"I'm Adam and I'm adamant about living large." -- Adrock
20266, Dang. Here it is.
Posted by REDeye, Mon Jan-22-01 08:14 AM


I'm still writing 20th century on all my checks.
20267, see saw
Posted by fire, Mon Jan-22-01 05:45 AM

(coming to an internet negro theatre near you, february 2001)


the MINNIE ATLAS project - coming soon
20268, Yeah 'RIQ!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by dayzblack, Mon Jan-22-01 06:07 AM
Yo, I haven't seen the film but the buzz is Tariq was good as shit, so I want to say I'm a proud OkayPlayer, and GOOD LUCK on this film thing if to continue to pursue it. Also, thanks for holding it down on yet another epic centered around the boro.
Brooklyn Baby!
20269, i think it was played...
Posted by UrbanCowgRRL, Mon Jan-22-01 07:44 AM
at the festival that is...

Much love,

Surgeon General... - DPS...drunk posters society...y'all ain't ready!?!? We soldiers.

Drunkin' Starli Quotes:
"Hey man..i can lock a hoggie too!"

"i always tell people that fame is
nothing but a good publicist, while
talent is a genuine article..." ~ Pozi